Ben Brereton Diaz

[47er]

13 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Ya and if he does he could be a serious unit. Looking yesterday he is the tallest player we have, put some muscle on that and he could be a real handful 

Tallest player but can't head it! Long way to go.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

23 minutes ago, 47er said:

Tallest player but can't head it! Long way to go.

I remarked on that after watching the " highlights " video before we signing him. Obviously he was in camera shot throughout a 7 or 8 minute long video yet he never headed the ball once. Pretty unusual for a striker even in todays football.

[Bigdoggsteel]

41 minutes ago, 47er said:

Tallest player but can't head it! Long way to go.

Not the be all and end all, plenty of players have had great careers without being brilliant at heading. 

[47er]

46 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Not the be all and end all, plenty of players have had great careers without being brilliant at heading. 

But its an important asset for a striker! C'mn! How many did Shearer score with his head?

And I didn't say BB wasn't brilliant with his head----I said he can't head it! Big difference!

Jimmy Greaves was a prolific striker and I don't remember him heading it much but he was a little bloke! What use is it being tall without heading the ball?

Which tall strikers had brilliant careers and couldn't/wouldn't head it?

Edited April 23, 2019 by 47er
added something

[oldjamfan1]

Just now, 47er said:

 

Which tall strikers had brilliant careers and couldn't/wouldn't head it?

I may be wrong here but I don't recall Ian Rush being a particularly good header of a ball?

Edited April 23, 2019 by oldjamfan1

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, 47er said:

But its an important asset for a striker! C'mn! How many did Shearer score with his head?

And I didn't say BB wasn't brilliant with his head----I said he can't head it! Big difference!

Jimmy Greaves was a prolific striker and I don't remember him heading it much but he was a little bloke!

Which tall strikers had brilliant careers and couldn't/wouldn't head it?

It's an important asset for "some" strikers. Just because Brereton is tall, doesn't mean his game has to revolve around heading. If he does the other parts of the game well, that's the important thing. It would be great if his heading did improve and became a key part of his game, which is possible as he is only 19. 

Lets not start comparing and contrasting him(or anyone else) to Shearer. They will lose  

[SBlue]

I'm reliably informed by other learned members in the U-23 thread that size and physicality doesn't matter anymore.

So him being taller or stronger is completely irrelevant anyway ?

[deryck guyler's spoon]

Just now, S8 & Blue said:

I'm reliably informed by other learned members in the U-23 thread that size and physicality doesn't matter anymore.

So him being taller or stronger is completely irrelevant anyway ?

Naughty!

[SBlue]

Just now, deryck guyler's spoon said:

Naughty!

Moi? ?

[joey_big_nose]

3 hours ago, Don Said said:

As has been said you need your strikers to match the style of play of the team. Brereton is the type to run on to balls at pace rather than planting himself with his arse to goal. We can't expect him to drop in to the side and play the Graham role.

I think he'd do well at a team like Brentford who keep the ball on the ground, working it forward with a bit of trickery allowing the striker to latch on to through balls, as well as allowing quick balls inside from the wing, where the striker can take a touch inside before shooting.

Maupay has done that role at Brentford this year and has scored 24 - watching highlights most of his goals do seem to come from both latching on to through balls & cutting inside after running with it/taking a few touches.

We've got the players to play that way in the attacking third - yesterdays line up of Rothwell Dack and Armstrong behind Brereton for example. Mowbray's alluded to us developing that way long term so he might well turn out to be the type we need.

 

That's what I am alluding to really, he seems much closer to a Rothwell, Dack or Armstrong style of player than a Graham. But that doesn't really help as he is manifestly much poorer than any of those three in an attacking midfield role. Indeed Butterworth and Chapman are better bets.

He's a striker whose actually not a striker but a poor attacking midfielder. Mentle. I just don't get it.

Only way I can see him having a career with us is if he raidically changes his style and unearths a whole new dimension to his game. Doesn't happen often, but there you go.

Sincerely looking forward to being proved wrong and will eat humble pie with glee.

[JacknOry]

I know DG and Dack are competing for top scorer but we really should be putting BB up front for the remainder of the season to see if he can build on this. 

[Miller11]

Just now, JacknOry said:

I know DG and Dack are competing for top scorer but we really should be putting BB up front for the remainder of the season to see if he can build on this. 

Agree with this. He was much improved yesterday, but still a long way to go to prove he has anything much to offer long term, discounting the fee.

[47er]

1 hour ago, oldjamfan1 said:

I may be wrong here but I don't recall Ian Rush being a particularly good header of a ball?

Yes, now you come to mention it!

But its still an asset associated with a tall striker! Unless somebody comes up with dozens I'm standing my ground!

[47er]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

It's an important asset for "some" strikers. Just because Brereton is tall, doesn't mean his game has to revolve around heading. If he does the other parts of the game well, that's the important thing. It would be great if his heading did improve and became a key part of his game, which is possible as he is only 19. 

Lets not start comparing and contrasting him(or anyone else) to Shearer. They will lose  

You're a big Strawman inventor, I never said "his game had to  revolve around heading" anymore than I said "he wasn't brilliant with his head" in the first post!

Speaking of posts, you keep shifting them!

[Don Said]

5 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

That's what I am alluding to really, he seems much closer to a Rothwell, Dack or Armstrong style of player than a Graham. But that doesn't really help as he is manifestly much poorer than any of those three in an attacking midfield role. Indeed Butterworth and Chapman are better bets.

He's a striker whose actually not a striker but a poor attacking midfielder. Mentle. I just don't get it.

Only way I can see him having a career with us is if he raidically changes his style and unearths a whole new dimension to his game. Doesn't happen often, but there you go.

Sincerely looking forward to being proved wrong and will eat humble pie with glee.

For me he's an out and out striker. Just because his attributes are quite different to the one we're used to (Graham) doesn't mean he's more of a winger/cam - plenty of strikers in this league with similar attributes who do well, even as a lone striker (Maupay and Roofe off the top of my head).

It's more a case of we need to play the football that allows him to play to the best of his ability, in order to let him and the team prosper, just like Brentford and Leeds have done with the two players mentioned.

That's not to say he doesn't need to work on basic striker 101 - positioning, finishing, strength, hold up play should all be being worked on in training to improve his game. 

I would've signed a different type of striker in the first place, but with the type of football Mowbray has said he wants to play, and the way we lined up with Brereton on Saturday, the signing does make sense with a long term view in mind.

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

20 minutes ago, 47er said:

You're a big Strawman inventor, I never said "his game had to  revolve around heading" anymore than I said "he wasn't brilliant with his head" in the first post!

Speaking of posts, you keep shifting them!

I said he was our tallest player, you said ya but he can't header it. 

I should have just responded "ok" , because it seems anything more complicated goes over your head 

You entire argument revolving around asking people to name tall strikers who weren't good in the air is confusing and silly. I am not sure what point you are trying to make to be honest.

I will play along though, here's one for you; Thierry Henry.  Another? Ok- Teddy Sheringham? How about Anelka?  Gonna move some goalposts are we  

Edited April 23, 2019 by Bigdoggsteel

[JacknOry]

45 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I said he was our tallest player, you said ya but he can't header it. 

I should have just responded "ok" , because it seems anything more complicated goes over your head 

You entire argument revolving around asking people to name tall strikers who weren't good in the air is confusing and silly. I am not sure what point you are trying to make to be honest.

I will play along though, here's one for you; Thierry Henry.  Another? Ok- Teddy Sheringham? How about Anelka?  Gonna move some goalposts are we  

Sheringham was good in the air I thought - remember hims coring some beauts.

You'll enjoy this one in particular - though I remember him scoring much better:

And on further research, Sheringham scored 35 of his 146 premier league goals with his head. Not too shabby if you ask me.

Edited April 23, 2019 by JacknOry

[old darwen blue]

49 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I said he was our tallest player, you said ya but he can't header it. 

I should have just responded "ok" , because it seems anything more complicated goes over your head 

You entire argument revolving around asking people to name tall strikers who weren't good in the air is confusing and silly. I am not sure what point you are trying to make to be honest.

I will play along though, here's one for you; Thierry Henry.  Another? Ok- Teddy Sheringham? How about Anelka?  Gonna move some goalposts are we  

No offence intended pal but you don’t half come across as the Irish Chaddy!

[Husky]

One swallow doesn't make a summer. . . . or is it a dodo?

Nice finish from Big Ben yesterday of course. It's a good job Moobs read this forum about starting him against Bolton before this site went 'members only'.

Though, it was pretty disappointing to see Benny's 2 other efforts at the back post as they were both laughable - Back to Brown in both senses of the word.

Still, a goal has at least put his price up to £7000 (it was as low as £0.07p at one stage during the season) on Football Meerkat. So we are making progress . . . . . .

[Bigdoggsteel]

12 minutes ago, old darwen blue said:

No offence intended pal but you don’t half come across as the Irish Chaddy!

I am highly offended actually! 

[Bigdoggsteel]

22 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

Sheringham was good in the air I thought - remember hims coring some beauts.

You'll enjoy this one in particular - though I remember him scoring much better:

And on further research, Sheringham scored 35 of his 146 premier league goals with his head. Not too shabby if you ask me.

Sshh   Surprising, although you would have to admit it wasn't the main focus of his game. Also put Brereton in that united team and I bet he would have scored a fair few with his head, hard to miss when on a plate 

[Oldgregg86]

?

2 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I am highly offended actually! 

It's tuesday shouldn't u be in the cinema

Edited April 23, 2019 by Oldgregg86

[Leonard Venkhater]

3 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I am highly offended actually! 

So is Chaddy Lol

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

4 hours ago, old darwen blue said:

No offence intended pal but you don’t half come across as the Irish Chaddy!

Could be they're one and the same person. When did you see them together ?

[Leonard Venkhater]

On 15/04/2019 at 00:11, 47er said:

The classic "hindsight' argument again. I didn't need it to see this was a poor deal, confirmed by seeing how little we used him and how unready he was.

Those of us who didn't need hindsight were called out by others who did! Particularly you. Now you're saying we wrote him off too early! Clear implication that its time to write him off now! We just got the timing wrong!!

This was and is a bad deal. We have blown most of our summer budget on a player who isn't good enough to play, while ignoring the defensive inadequacies that were obvious to most at the time. And we are still looking to replace Graham!

"worst transfer in twenty years"------YES. Another Grabbi but Grabbi was a far better player. Brereton is so far out of his depth it defies belief.

Nuttall is far better and he was free. At least he can head it.

Dance on the head of a pin if you want, invent all the straw men you can (ticket surcharges or whatever) but you have spent months defending the indefensible, for what?

 

In the circumstances of our finances, our position in the second tier, our well -known deficits in other areas of the pitch and BB's lack of proven experience, this signing was a real concern to me.

Had we used that money differently, I am confident that we could have made the play- offs.

Whether we would have been good enough to win them is another matter.

Not sure whether Nuttall is any better though!

 

Edited April 23, 2019 by Leonard Venkhater