Ben Brereton Diaz

[Mashed Potatoes]

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Spot on. For me Mowbray's handling of him has been an absolute disgrace. 

OK maybe we overpaid for him and maybe he isn't the next Alan Shearer, but when Mowbray indulged in another arse covering exercise in that article in the LT the other day putting Brereton's lack of impact down to lack of desire on the player's part, I think it was mentioned he'd only had 8 starts during his time  (sixteen months) here. Of those 8 starts I'd be surprised if more than 2 or 3 of them were from his natural position up front.

How is anyone meant to thrive in those circumstances.? I was quite heartened to read that Mowbray mentioned In the article that BB had been in his office complaining about lack of game time as it shows he's not just happy to sit there and collect his wage.

When the uncorroborated rumour about him crying emerged on Twitter yesterday, my first thought was that I would need a bit more proof than that before I believed it but even if it did happen it wasn't necessarily a bad thing that he was upset things weren't working out for him, particularly after (rightly or wrongly) being dug out in the Press by his manager for lack of hunger. 

 in many ways I'd be a lot more worried if BB seemed completely unconcerned by his plight and how things have gone. No harm in him being devastated by how he's been treated this far but although another manager might put an arm round his shoulder, attempt to build his confidence up and  actually give him a proper chance instead of just telling him he needs to bulk up and/or await his chance and/or show more hunger, at the end of the day he'll have to bounce back and produce himself.

1. I agree with you that it is a good thing that the player cares about how things are going. I think that the overwhelming percentage of professional footballers do care and that the non trying accusations that are levelled against some of them are unjustified.

2. The discussion about crying which developed on this thread came after one poster made a statement that he thought it was pathetic for an adult man to cry. On a day when football was trying to highlight mental health issues and a few days after 39 year old  Chris Barker committed suicide some of us thought that was inappropriate.

3 Doesn't Mowbray's handling of the player point to the signing being a decision made by someone else ? If he hasn't rated him how can he play him ?

[chaddyrovers]

4 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

You mean before he joined Southampton for £15 million? What was the point in scouting him? Seems like a waste of time if they are the figures he moved for 

I don't know when we scouted him during last season so I couldn't comment. Just a name I was given during last season by a friend with a good source at the club. I have no reason to doubt his info as I trust this friend

5 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

A below average striker with a poor goal record? 

He would be a target man striker similar to Graham and would have thrive on our crosses into the box we do. Give us time to look for a striker who will lead our line for few years. Players like Austin, Grabban, were never coming here due to wages they are on. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

14 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

 

2. The discussion about crying which developed on this thread came after one poster made a statement that he thought it was pathetic for an adult man to cry. On a day when football was trying to highlight mental health issues and a few days after 39 year old  Chris Barker committed suicide some of us thought that was inappropriate.

 

Dont twist what I said. Plus dont bring suicide into it to try and over state a millionaire footballer crying because he got booed ,like every player does. Of course it's ok for men to cry. There are of course times when men probably should cry rather than bottle things up. If you cry cos you get booed as a footballer, you need time off to get your head straight and possibly re evaluate your career. Harsh maybe, but the truth. 

Look at James McLean. The absolute savage sectarian abuse that man gets week in week out. I remember a thread on here before where some said he deserves it for not wearing a poppy. 

Should booing opposition players be banned? What about if they are taking a penalty. Should they not be booed in case it impacts their mental health? 

 

Edited January 5, 2020 by Bigdoggsteel

[Bigdoggsteel]

4 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I don't know when we scouted him during last season so I couldn't comment. Just a name I was given during last season by a friend with a good source at the club. I have no reason to doubt his info as I trust this friend

So it always seems we scouted players that go on to do well elsewhere, whereas our big money signings dont. Interesting that, no?. 

Edited January 5, 2020 by Bigdoggsteel

[RevidgeBlue]

9 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

1. I agree with you that it is a good thing that the player cares about how things are going. I think that the overwhelming percentage of professional footballers do care and that the non trying accusations that are levelled against some of them are unjustified.

2. The discussion about crying which developed on this thread came after one poster made a statement that he thought it was pathetic for an adult man to cry. On a day when football was trying to highlight mental health issues and a few days after 39 year old  Chris Barker committed suicide some of us thought that was inappropriate.

3 Doesn't Mowbray's handling of the player point to the signing being a decision made by someone else ? If he hasn't rated him how can he play him ?

As regards point 3, you might think that would be the case, but in response to that particular suggestion Mowbray has claimed ownership of the Brereton signing on umpteen occasions. Unless you're going to accuse him of lying I think you have to take that at face value in the absence of hard evidence to the contrary.

It just seems to me that for the section of the fanbase for whom Tony can do no wrong, when we make a signing that comes off, it's a masterstroke by Tony, if we make a signing that's a disaster the owners must have got involved and it's nothing to do with Tony.

Whereas there's no actual evidence whatsoever that TM isn't in full control of transfer dealings and wouldn't have signed them all, good or bad.

[Mashed Potatoes]

1 minute ago, RevidgeBlue said:

As regards point 3, you might think that would be the case, but in response to that particular suggestion Mowbray has claimed ownership of the Brereton signing on umpteen occasions. Unless you're going to accuse him of lying I think you have to take that at face value in the absence of hard evidence to the contrary.

It just seems to me that for the section of the fanbase for whom Tony can do no wrong, when we make a signing that comes off, it's a masterstroke by Tony, if we make a signing that's a disaster the owners must have got involved and it's nothing to do with Tony.

Whereas there's no actual evidence whatsoever that TM isn't in full control of transfer dealings and wouldn't have signed them all, good or bad.

I think he's taking one for the team by saying he made the signing. He can hardly come out in public and say that it wasn't down to him and the player was effectively foisted on him.

Generally I'm afraid that over the last 9 years the nature of the club's transfer dealings have pointed strongly to the conclusion that the manager whoever it is has to accept a significant degree of interference from external sources.

[Mashed Potatoes]

11 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Dont twist what I said. Plus dont bring suicide into it to try and over state a millionaire footballer crying because he got booed ,like every player does. Of course it's ok for men to cry. There are of course times when men probably should cry rather than bottle things up. If you cry cos you get booed as a footballer, you need time off to get your head straight and possibly re evaluate your career. Harsh maybe, but the truth. 

Look at James McLean. The absolute savage sectarian abuse that man gets week in week out. I remember a thread on here before where some said he deserves it for not wearing a poppy. 

Should booing opposition players be banned? What about if they are taking a penalty. Should they not be booed in case it impacts their mental health? 

 

Everyone here can look at your original post to see if your words were twisted. I'm pleased to see that you have expressed the views you have in your first paragraph. The exception is your reference to Brereton being a "millionaire" which follows on from a previous reference  you have made to him having an attractive partner. I just don't see the relevance of these statements. Either we care about our fellow human beings or we don't; there is not a lower threshold of care for those with money and a beautiful girlfriend.

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 minute ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Everyone here can look at your original post to see if your words were twisted. I'm pleased to see that you have expressed the views you have in your first paragraph. The exception is your reference to Brereton being a "millionaire" which follows on from a previous reference  you have made to him having an attractive partner. I just don't see the relevance of these statements. Either we care about our fellow human beings or we don't; there is not a lower threshold of care for those with money and a beautiful girlfriend.

It's a very simple point, people have real issues. He can cry all he wants, it just suggests to me that he isnt cut out to be a footballer. Every single player gets booed.

Should fans be stopped from booing opposition players? 

[tomphil]

19 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Dont twist what I said. Plus dont bring suicide into it to try and over state a millionaire footballer crying because he got booed ,like every player does. Of course it's ok for men to cry. There are of course times when men probably should cry rather than bottle things up. If you cry cos you get booed as a footballer, you need time off to get your head straight and possibly re evaluate your career. Harsh maybe, but the truth. 

Look at James McLean. The absolute savage sectarian abuse that man gets week in week out. I remember a thread on here before where some said he deserves it for not wearing a poppy. 

Should booing opposition players be banned? What about if they are taking a penalty. Should they not be booed in case it impacts their mental health? 

 

If you want to see genuine bile and abuse look no further than Rudy Gestede when he flopped at Villa.

That was unbelievable, some of it on live tv at the end of a game as well.  What we have at Rovers these days still is a split fanbase that is far too quick to blow things out of proportion and turn on each other.

That's the real issue.

[RevidgeBlue]

9 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

I think he's taking one for the team by saying he made the signing. He can hardly come out in public and say that it wasn't down to him and the player was effectively foisted on him.

Generally I'm afraid that over the last 9 years the nature of the club's transfer dealings have pointed strongly to the conclusion that the manager whoever it is has to accept a significant degree of interference from external sources.

Sorry, not having that. If a manager really doesn't want a player then he has to put his foot down or evaluate his position if a player really is foisted on him against his wishes at the expense of someone else.

Plus whilst I am merely surmising, I wouldn't be surprised if Mowbray has a lot more autonomy than at most other Clubs. Up until this summer at least he seems to have had the complete faith of the owners whereas at many bigger Clubs transfer business is carried out by Committee consisting of the Director of Football, Chief Executive, Manager, Chief Scout, etc and the manager has his say and input but not necessarily the final decision.

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 minute ago, tomphil said:

If you want to see genuine bile and abuse look no further than Rudy Gestede when he flopped at Villa.

That was unbelievable, some of it on live tv at the end of a game as well.  What we have at Rovers these days still is a split fanbase that is far too quick to blow things out of proportion and turn on each other.

That's the real issue.

Ya,its really bad on Twitter today. For the record I don't think our fans should boo Brereton,or any of our own players for that matter. Hes not the first one to be booed though. 

Edited January 5, 2020 by Bigdoggsteel

[chaddyrovers]

22 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

So it always seems we scouted players that go on to do well elsewhere, whereas our big money signings dont. Interesting that, no?. 

How many players do we scout on a weekly basis I don't know

[Mashed Potatoes]

1 minute ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Ya,its really bad on Twitter today. For the record I don't our fans should boo Brereton,or any of our own players for that matter. 

I agree with you so let's consider this closed.

[DE.]

https://www.nottinghampost.com/sport/football/transfer-news/signing-ben-brereton-opportunity-good-1946842

Quote

"I see raw talent,” said Mowbray.

"He's six foot three, he can travel with the ball, he can dribble, he can power past people, he can run without it, he can create, he can cross, he can shoot, he can affect football matches.

"I think it's just too good an opportunity for us to turn down. We had the money to spend and when you've got it, let's spend it. Let's add quality to the existing squad of players we've got."

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/17336084.mowbray-happy-patient-brereton/

Quote

“Ben is a player I really like," said the Ewood boss. "As I try and put into context, Bradley Dack is five or six years older than Ben Brereton and Bradley seems a young player. Adam Armstrong is nearly three years older than him.

“So you have to put in to context how young he is and yet he’s 6ft 2in, can run all day, score off either foot, we just have to be patient with Ben.

“I’m very happy that he’s our footballer and is going to be in our building. His time will come and people will say ‘wow, Ben Brereton, where did they get him from?’

“Hopefully that’s in my time here and there’s some longevity of my time here building this club.

“We’ve tried to build an underbelly that can hopefully come to fruition with the addition of some players who know what this league is about and what it takes to get out of it.

“Bit by bit, we’re building it and Ben Brereton I have every faith that he’s going to be a big player for us. At this moment he has to sit behind Danny Graham.

“I know there’s a burden of potentially a big signing for this club numerically but I’ll judge him over his time at this club as a footballer.

“At this moment in time he’s still a young guy bedding in, and there’s no great urgency to force him in to the team before he’s ready when we’ve got Graham and Dack.

“We’ll let him grow in to the player we know he will be and give him game-time along the way and I’m confident he’ll be a big player in the future for us.”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45334243

Quote

"The price, for me, is really irrelevant. I'm just trying to add the right quality to our team that is going to help us be more exciting and more offensive," Rovers head coach Tony Mowbray told BBC Radio Lancashire.

"I'm very conscious of not over-playing him. He's a young guy with lots of attributes.

"The money has always been there. There are three of four deals for similar amounts of money that did not quite come off for us. The owners are trying to take the club in the right direction in a sensible manner."

https://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/blackburn-rovers/news/mowbray-delighted-for-wonderful-footballer-brereton_357023.html

Quote

"I try to put it into context. If you think of Armstrong being a young boy, this kid's two years younger than Armstrong. But he's a wonderful footballer and that's why he's here.

"That's why we invested the money, not necessarily for today, but for tomorrow, by that I mean the start of next season.

"He's got to be pushing hard to make sure he's a starter in our team. I'm sure he'll do that, work hard through pre-season and hopefully he has a fantastic year next year for us.

Anyone suggesting Brereton was forced on Mowbray is talking out of their arse I'm afraid. Conspiracy theory BS. Just accept the manager made a balls up. It happens. Unfortunately for us it coincided with £7m being flushed down the toilet.

[Mashed Potatoes]

2 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Sorry, not having that. If a manager really doesn't want a player then he has to put his foot down or evaluate his position if a player really is foisted on him against his wishes at the expense of someone else.

Plus whilst I am merely surmising, I wouldn't be surprised if Mowbray has a lot more autonomy than at most other Clubs. Up until this summer at least he seems to have had the complete faith of the owners whereas at many bigger Clubs transfer business is carried out by Committee consisting of the Director of Football, Chief Executive, Manager, Chief Scout, etc and the manager has his say and input but not necessarily the final decision.

Steve Kean didn't have much going for him but I suspect he had little input regarding transfers. Wasn't Jordan Rhodes bought by football expert Shebby Singh ? Also there is a story that when Jordan Slew turned up for his first day at training Kean greeted him with the words "Well, who are you then ?"

I agree with you that strong managers can stand up to owners trying to foist players on to them which I'm afraid is why our owners do not and probably will not employ any of them. You have posted optimistically about the likes of Hughton, Hughes and Pulis replacing Mowbray; in my opinion men like that will stand up to the owners and get a P45 for their troubles just like all the other employees who tried to do the right thing for the club.

[RevidgeBlue]

22 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Should fans be stopped from booing opposition players? 

I think we're starting to go down that rocky road,  particularly where said players happen to be black.

Sign of the politically correct times unfortunately. (Not being able to give opposition players the bird to.put them off I mean, not racist abuse)

Back to Brereton it's a completely separate issue. I can't think of another Club that has ever frozen their major signing out like we have done with Brereton. It must have been horrendous for him and if it has all got too much and in the heat of the moment he broke down, I couldn't care less. (In terms of it being a potential criticism of him)

All that said I think the way things are going in general at Ewood it's understandable that the fans are going to turn on the team and whilst it's not ideal, individual players on occasion, so BB has to treat that side of it as nothing particularly personal and dust himself down and go again.

Edited January 5, 2020 by RevidgeBlue

[Bigdoggsteel]

9 minutes ago, DE. said:

https://www.nottinghampost.com/sport/football/transfer-news/signing-ben-brereton-opportunity-good-1946842

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/17336084.mowbray-happy-patient-brereton/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45334243

https://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/blackburn-rovers/news/mowbray-delighted-for-wonderful-footballer-brereton_357023.html

Anyone suggesting Brereton was forced on Mowbray is talking out of their arse I'm afraid. Conspiracy theory BS. Just accept the manager made a balls up. It happens. Unfortunately for us it coincided with £7m being flushed down the toilet.

Case closed, your honour. 

[tomphil]

He seems to have shrunk an inch under TMs management, must be the weight of the fee.

Seriously though some other managers in this league must look at Rovers squad and see the 6'3" + Gallagher and the likes of Brereton and wonder what the hell we are or aren't doing with them.

Big athletic quite mobile lads, they need moulding into a system with the right kind of service, they need crosses from either side, cut backs and square balls across the edge of the box. Coach them to attack the ball, gamble and attack space.

Say what you want about them but imo what ability they do posses is being completely wasted and it's doing neither any good. Mowbray is right about one thing though if they had 7 or 8 between them this season the fees wouldn't get half the bad press they rightly do.

Edited January 5, 2020 by tomphil

[Mashed Potatoes]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Case closed, your honour. 

I disagree. If he had little input in to a signing made by the owners on the advice of their representatives he was never going to come out and be anything other than positive if he wanted to keep his job. Instead what he did was never to pick him for the team.

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

I disagree. If he had little input in to a signing made by the owners on the advice of their representatives he was never going to come out and be anything other than positive if he wanted to keep his job. Instead what he did was never to pick him for the team.

If you disagree, you must therefore agree that Mowbray is a massive liar? The quotes @DE.shared are pretty unequivocal. 

I don't believe he is a liar to be honest. 

Edited January 5, 2020 by Bigdoggsteel

[Amo]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

If you disagree, you must therefore agree that Mowbray is a massive liar? 

I don't believe he is a liar to be honest. 

Would he be making the same argument if Brereton had been a success? 

[Mashed Potatoes]

3 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

If you disagree, you must therefore agree that Mowbray is a massive liar? The quotes @DE.shared are pretty unequivocal. 

I don't believe he is a liar to be honest. 

Not a massive liar , no. But I think anyone working here as a manager for long will find themselves in the position of having to say things they don't believe. The one exception was Lambert who walked.

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 minute ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Not a massive liar , no. But I think anyone working here as a manager for long will find themselves in the position of having to say things they don't believe. The one exception was Lambert who walked.

Saying things they don't believe? 

Mmm,ok then! 

[Bigdoggsteel]

5 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Not a massive liar , no. But I think anyone working here as a manager for long will find themselves in the position of having to say things they don't believe. The one exception was Lambert who walked.

My bet is he took a punt based on pretty as much as we could find out online in about 2 hours after hearing about Brereton for the 1st time. Along with making a few calls to ex managers to find out if he's a good lad. 

Look,clubs take punts sometimes and they dont't work out. It's just a pity it happened us when we don't have much cash. 

I don't think fans should boo him anyway. I really hope he proves a lot of us wrong form here. 

[Mashed Potatoes]

3 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

My bet is he took a punt based on pretty as much as we could find out online in about 2 hours after hearing about Brereton for the 1st time. Along with making a few calls to ex managers to find out if he's a good lad. 

Look,clubs take punts sometimes and they dont't work out. It's just a pity it happened us when we don't have much cash. 

I don't think fans should boo him anyway. I really hope he proves a lot of us wrong form here. 

I think Brereton's name will have been put to him after the owners and their representatives came up with the idea and asked him for his opinion. I agree he probably then did something along the lines of what you say and ok'd it having been told there was no alternative signing lined up.