Ben Brereton Diaz

[Exiled_Rover]

4 hours ago, Stuart said:

Excellent is a bit strong. He looks better than he did.

Even in his best spell he has fall over his own feet after rounding the keeper, missed a penalty and at least one open net under no pressure.

He still has a long way to go to pay back his transfer fee.

I'd argue 'in his best spell' he's scored two cracking goals in a friendly and created two goals in the League Cup. 

[Ossydave]

1 hour ago, Hasta said:

You've spent the last 2 years in cloud cuckoo land mate.

He has been awful for most of his spell here, and shown little in regards to skill.  At the end of last year, in his "improved form" since lockdown, he had one game where I would class him as good. Someone corrected me when I said this last week that in fact he had two good games. Woohoo, 

Now yesterday he did ok in the second half, helpled by his contribution to both goals. Keep that up for a couple of months and I will revise my opinion on him. However we bought him as a striker and he will never be a 12 goal a season. He's happiest running with the ball, but almost wants to knock it past the defenders out wide and charge past them.  

Everybody wants him to do well and score goals.  But people are now marking up his performances because they want him to do well, rather than based on what he actually does. 

Maybe some people just know more about football than others? Ben will prove many an idiot wrong on here ?

[Amo]

He won't make it here.

Will eventually get loaned out and we'll cut our losses.

Loved to be proven wrong.

[Vilesinner]

4 hours ago, Hasta said:

You've spent the last 2 years in cloud cuckoo land mate.

He has been awful for most of his spell here, and shown little in regards to skill.  At the end of last year, in his "improved form" since lockdown, he had one game where I would class him as good. Someone corrected me when I said this last week that in fact he had two good games. Woohoo, 

Now yesterday he did ok in the second half, helpled by his contribution to both goals. Keep that up for a couple of months and I will revise my opinion on him. However we bought him as a striker and he will never be a 12 goal a season. He's happiest running with the ball, but almost wants to knock it past the defenders out wide and charge past them.  

Everybody wants him to do well and score goals.  But people are now marking up his performances because they want him to do well, rather than based on what he actually does. 

My opinion is based on what I have seen.

He is like a new player since lockdown.

Dack up front with Armstrong and BB in the wide positions would work great imo; especially with Holby playing balls forward.

[Fraserkirky]

29 minutes ago, Vilesinner said:

My opinion is based on what I have seen.

He is like a new player since lockdown.

Dack up front with Armstrong and BB in the wide positions would work great imo; especially with Holby playing balls forward.

Yep with Travis and Rothwell providing the legs in midfield either side of Holtby

[Stuart]

7 hours ago, Exiled_Rover said:

I'd argue 'in his best spell' he's scored two cracking goals in a friendly and created two goals in the League Cup. 

Yes, and that would be why people are calling it his best spell.

The awful elements occurred “even in” that best spell.

He has a long way to go.

[matt83]

Players are often judged relative to expectations. My personal expectations of Brereton are rock bottom. So when he performs the most basic duties expected of a professional footballer (not even a 7 million pound one) it’s pleasantly surprising. 

I think he’s having more regular spells where he looks like a championship player and this is a vast improvement on a player that looked like he should be playing in the dog and duck leagues.

In my opinion he will almost certainly never justify his price tag and still has a long away to go to convince me he’ll be a half way decent striker for the club. 

[Hasta]

8 hours ago, Ossydave said:

Maybe some people just know more about football than others? Ben will prove many an idiot wrong on here ?

One way or another that is true. Time will tell which side of this debate those 'idiots' were on.

The 12 goal a season bar is set.

 

Edited August 31, 2020 by Hasta

[Mattyblue]

It’s a sign of how desperate fans are for him to do well that his improvement from a very low base - I.e he can now actually run with the ball and hold off a man is lauded. 

Fair enough, as it’s better for everyone all round that he gets better. Does he look like he has the tools to be a PL player? As surely that’s what you are betting on when you buy a teenager for £7million, frankly no at this stage.

I would say the ‘model’ has malfunctioned on this one as I don’t see us getting a return on investment, in contrast to the excellent bit of business that was Armstrong, but hopefully he can at least make it as a decent Championship player, big season ahead for all involved.

[rigger]

2 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

It’s a sign of how desperate fans are for him to do well that his improvement from a very low base - I.e he can now actually run with the ball and hold off a man is lauded. 

Fair enough, as it’s better for everyone all round that he gets better. Does he look like he has the tools to be a PL player? As surely that’s what you are betting on when you buy a teenager for £7million, frankly no at this stage.

I would say the ‘model’ has malfunctioned on this one as I don’t see us getting a return on investment, in contrast to the excellent bit of business that was Armstrong, but hopefully he can at least make it as a decent Championship player, big season ahead for all involved.

I would think that whenever we buy a player, regardless of price, it is with the sole purpose of them performing well for us. I am hoping this is still achievable with Brereton.

[Mattyblue]

It isn’t the sole purpose though, is it? Initially they are obviously bought for our team, but young English forwards are known to go for the big bucks, which is the model we are/were following, which is a sensible approach, but you need to ensure you are seeking ‘value’ with those initial purchases - see AA as a prime example of it.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

13 hours ago, joey_big_nose said:

He's never going to score 15-20 even if he develops well. He's just not that sort of player. What's increasingly obvious is he's closer to a Joe Rothwell or Harry Chapman than a proper striker. Will always spend a lot longer outside the box than in it no matter where he is on the team sheet.

You're right there, getting inside the box is where the goals are going to come from. Until he get's that part of the game the goals will be few and far between.

The point being over looked here is that we spent the £7 million 2 years ago. If we'd spent it on a proven goalscorer at that time we would probably have got a better return for our money.

Edited August 31, 2020 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Amo]

It's obvious we were done up like a kipper when we signed Ben, and once again someone's made a tasty commission out of it at Rovers' expense.

[Colt Seavers]

On 30/08/2020 at 15:50, JacknOry said:

Yeah we get all that. It is not his fault - so who's is it? Nobody gets on his back - people just judge his performances.

He cost 7 million quid - that's two Shearer's

 

I daresay you are being flippant there. He also cost seventy times as much as Jimmy Greaves cost Spurs but that was back in 1961.

Brereton was born in the same year as Buckley, Rankin Costello, Stefan Mols, Dan Butterworth etc. He didn't demand to be transferred for that grossly inflated fee, just as we wouldn't blame the likes of Butterworth if Notts Forest paid a similar fee for him or another young player of ours.

He is eighteen months younger than Harry Chapman. A little perspective is needed.

Like all the above named, Brereton has a lot to learn. Recent performances suggest he is doing just that. He seems to be a good lad and to my mind he may well go on to have a better career than Sam Gallagher. Right now, of the two of them, I would rather the manager select Brereton.

 

[Mattyblue]

As a ‘wide forward’, I’d agree, SG is dreadful out there.

But I won’t be too harsh on Gallagher until he gets a run as a centre forward

[philipl]

Gallagher was signed as a Brereton replacement or cover for the Brereton first season embarrassment if we are being realistic and was then pushed into playing totally out of position.

Gallagher for me is the mistake 

Brereton is firmly in the don't know column. What we are seeing now is a world removed from the 19 year old we signed. The Blackpool goals suggest there is another level to Ben's game which we hopefully will see this season.

I have no idea how you fit Armstrong, Brereton, Gallagher, Dack, Rothwell, Dolan, JRC together let alone Vale, Buckley,Butterworth, Chapman.

Yet at the back, we cannot find a first level back up or even a reliable first choice.

This is inexcusable from Mowbray who has had three and a half seasons to mould a squad and created an odd job set of all-sorts he is relying on to.be flexible enough to play out of position.

[bluebruce]

On 02/09/2020 at 06:03, philipl said:

Gallagher was signed as a Brereton replacement or cover for the Brereton first season embarrassment if we are being realistic and was then pushed into playing totally out of position.

Gallagher for me is the mistake 

Brereton is firmly in the don't know column. What we are seeing now is a world removed from the 19 year old we signed. The Blackpool goals suggest there is another level to Ben's game which we hopefully will see this season.

I have no idea how you fit Armstrong, Brereton, Gallagher, Dack, Rothwell, Dolan, JRC together let alone Vale, Buckley,Butterworth, Chapman.

Yet at the back, we cannot find a first level back up or even a reliable first choice.

This is inexcusable from Mowbray who has had three and a half seasons to mould a squad and created an odd job set of all-sorts he is relying on to.be flexible enough to play out of position.

True, although 5 out of those 11 are youth players who broke through, so they're not part of what he intentionally moulded through signings. The imbalance is real and stark though. And unforgivable.

[philipl]

1 minute ago, bluebruce said:

True, although 5 out of those 11 are youth players who broke through, so they're not part of what he intentionally moulded through signings. The imbalance is real and stark though. And unforgivable.

I missed Holtby out by mistake so 12. And I think you can only call JRC, Vale, Buckley and Butterworth true Academy graduates.

[bluebruce]

28 minutes ago, philipl said:

I missed Holtby out by mistake so 12. And I think you can only call JRC, Vale, Buckley and Butterworth true Academy graduates.

Ah yeh Holtby. They're the only true Academy graduates, but they're not the only ones that are from or were signed for the u23s. Dolan is a welcome surprise, not an attempt to buy a first teamer.

[Exiled_Rover]

On 02/09/2020 at 04:03, philipl said:

I have no idea how you fit Armstrong, Brereton, Gallagher, Dack, Rothwell, Dolan, JRC together let alone Vale, Buckley,Butterworth, Chapman.

Rothwell plays CM. Chapman doesn't play. 

Vale and Butterworth are just breaking through - perhaps they need to go out on loan. 

I think the bigger question is where do you play Wonderkid Buckley and Dack? 

[philipl]

15 hours ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Rothwell plays CM. Chapman doesn't play. 

Vale and Butterworth are just breaking through - perhaps they need to go out on loan. 

I think the bigger question is where do you play Wonderkid Buckley and Dack? 

left and right back

[Blue blood]

On 02/09/2020 at 04:03, philipl said:

Gallagher was signed as a Brereton replacement or cover for the Brereton first season embarrassment if we are being realistic and was then pushed into playing totally out of position.

Gallagher for me is the mistake 

Brereton is firmly in the don't know column. What we are seeing now is a world removed from the 19 year old we signed. The Blackpool goals suggest there is another level to Ben's game which we hopefully will see this season.

I have no idea how you fit Armstrong, Brereton, Gallagher, Dack, Rothwell, Dolan, JRC together let alone Vale, Buckley,Butterworth, Chapman.

Yet at the back, we cannot find a first level back up or even a reliable first choice.

This is inexcusable from Mowbray who has had three and a half seasons to mould a squad and created an odd job set of all-sorts he is relying on to.be flexible enough to play out of position.

Thing is even in what you have mentioned it doesn't fit together. Where does Dack play in a 4-3-3? He's best in the hole. Likewise of those you mention a lot are young and promising and aren't guarenteed championship quality. In fact  only 5 of them have played a decent amount of championship football. 2 have looked good but Gally and Bereton poor and Rothwell very mixed. So in terms of proven championship quality that's 2, charitably 3 of 10. That's a hell of a risk. Don't get me wrong I think there's some promising players in the rest of them but to only have 2 of your offensive players being reliable quality that's a heck of a gamble and poor planning imo. Even if a few of the promising players come good, it's a lot to expect them to come good in one season. Add in that the lack of seasoned pros to protect and assist the youngsters in a measured development and it looks to be a very badly mismanaged lot. 

 

[Preben]

I can't believe this had slipped to page two!?

Why do we play him? 

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

1 minute ago, Preben said:

Why do we play him? 

It's a £7m face-saving exercise for Mowbray. 

[RoversClitheroe]

On 16/09/2020 at 22:03, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

It's a £7m face-saving exercise for Mowbray. 

Dunno if he's saving face by constantly playing him. 

It's now become slightly embarrassing.