Ben Brereton Diaz

[darrenrover]

Has Ben learned how to trap a ball yet?

Has Ben learned how to move off at pace once he's trapped a ball?

[Prelude]

If Ben come through our academy rather than us paying 7 million pound what would we be saying about him?

The guy is 21 years old and has potential. It can't be denied that he has improved since coming back from lockdown. He has worked hard in the gym and has bulked up and had a good pre-season.

Everyone moans about his goal scoring record but how many 90 mins has he played as a striker? A handful? Half a dozen?

Is it the lads fault that Tony decided to pay 7 million for him?

Is it his fault that Tony has consistently played him out of position?

I think this season he will score half a dozen to 10 goals IF played as a forward. 

Lets get behind the lad he has talent and yes he is pretty raw but he is only 21 years old.

[Mattyblue]

I’m behind him, I will him on every game, I’ve cheered him at games, I cheer him from my laptop... I also think he just won’t make it here and all things considered it was a terrible deal by the club

[roversfan99]

10 hours ago, Prelude said:

If Ben come through our academy rather than us paying 7 million pound what would we be saying about him?

The guy is 21 years old and has potential. It can't be denied that he has improved since coming back from lockdown. He has worked hard in the gym and has bulked up and had a good pre-season.

Everyone moans about his goal scoring record but how many 90 mins has he played as a striker? A handful? Half a dozen?

Is it the lads fault that Tony decided to pay 7 million for him?

Is it his fault that Tony has consistently played him out of position?

I think this season he will score half a dozen to 10 goals IF played as a forward. 

Lets get behind the lad he has talent and yes he is pretty raw but he is only 21 years old.

Even if we naturally dismiss your nonsense about people moaning and not getting behind him...

The price tag has to play a part but even without it, on his individual merits, he has looked out of his depth for most of his Rovers career, which has progressed to offering zero goal threat but going on maybe a couple of neat dribbles in unharmful areas. He also had a good pre season last year, it meant nothing.

Why do you think he would get 6-10 as a striker? He played up front on Tuesday and he never gets into the box. He doesnt have the goalscoring instinct, and even when he gets presented with chances he misses, v Bristol City he was put through by a defender and fell over his feet, v Doncaster Armstrong unselfishly squared it for an empty net, he missed the target, v Newcastle the ball fell to him and he couldnt get it out of his feet.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

3 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

He has worked hard in the gym and has bulked up

So have I and I'm paying for the privilege. I also didn't used to fall over when presented with an open goal. Well, not unless it was an 11am Sunday game and I was still hammered.

[joey_big_nose]

On 04/09/2020 at 20:34, Exiled_Rover said:

Rothwell plays CM. Chapman doesn't play. 

Vale and Butterworth are just breaking through - perhaps they need to go out on loan. 

I think the bigger question is where do you play Wonderkid Buckley and Dack? 

I'd bet good money Vale and Butterworth will look more promising than Butterworth if the get some game time.

[Leonard Venkhater]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Even if we naturally dismiss your nonsense about people moaning and not getting behind him...

The price tag has to play a part but even without it, on his individual merits, he has looked out of his depth for most of his Rovers career, which has progressed to offering zero goal threat but going on maybe a couple of neat dribbles in unharmful areas. He also had a good pre season last year, it meant nothing.

Why do you think he would get 6-10 as a striker? He played up front on Tuesday and he never gets into the box. He doesnt have the goalscoring instinct, and even when he gets presented with chances he misses, v Bristol City he was put through by a defender and fell over his feet, v Doncaster Armstrong unselfishly squared it for an empty net, he missed the target, v Newcastle the ball fell to him and he couldnt get it out of his feet.

I can almost see you putting on your black cap, as you utter the final phrase!

[RoversClitheroe]

Lots of people who watch a lot of academy and first team games say that Butterworth and Vale are well ahead of Brereton in terms of both ability and potential.

[roversfan99]

That is a very difficult comparison to make, when one player is solely playing first team games and the other 2 only against kids.

[RoversClitheroe]

1 minute ago, roversfan99 said:

That is a very difficult comparison to make, when one player is solely playing first team games and the other 2 only against kids.

Brereton also had a stint in the 23s let's not forget. 

Watching games you can definitely tell regardless of opposition I think, but yes I agree to some extent.

[Exiled_Rover]

14 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

Lots of people who watch a lot of academy and first team games say that Butterworth and Vale are well ahead of Brereton in terms of both ability and potential.

Fingers crossed, that'd be a nice problem to have.

[Vilesinner]

20 hours ago, darrenrover said:

Has Ben learned how to trap a ball yet?

Has Ben learned how to move off at pace once he's trapped a ball?

He's better than Sam.

[Vilesinner]

23 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Fingers crossed, that'd be a nice problem to have.

Yes I remember seeing an excellent pass from Butterworth and an instinctive finish from Vale in the U23s. Really do see them as better prospects than BB and Gallagher. 

[Oldgregg86]

39 minutes ago, Vilesinner said:

He's better than Sam.

He really isnt

[bluebruce]

2 hours ago, joey_big_nose said:

I'd bet good money Vale and Butterworth will look more promising than Butterworth if the get some game time.

Well yes, I fully expect the two of them to look better than just one of them

[bluebruce]

2 hours ago, RoversClitheroe said:

Brereton also had a stint in the 23s let's not forget. 

Watching games you can definitely tell regardless of opposition I think, but yes I agree to some extent.

And didn't he have a pretty good goals record when he played in the u23s?

[SBlue]

Well I like him and he’s playing well.

Deserves his place.

[roversfan99]

He will forever have a big doubt over his place over him (or should) until he starts scoring goals or offering a goal threat.

[roversfan99]

The responses to this are interesting. Seems like the tables have turned in regards to fans perception of Brereton, mainly amidst younger fans:

"Been fantastic for the team this year, just needs to start adding goals and assists one of the first names on the teamsheet with his speed and the way he can carry the ball in transition"

"one of our best players start of this season, pre season and near the end of last season but people will be quick to blame him and say he's awful because the numbers say so"

"Gets scapegoated too often, easily been our top 5 players so far"

"overrated by fans who like him and massively underrated by fans who see 7mil and 2 goals in 2 seasons, reality is he’s average (if not slightly above) but still young and showing potential"

I think that he definitely has been a different player from the one that for a year and a half was embarrassingly off the pace. But until he starts being more effective in front of goal, the customary dribbles and occasional neat touches are not enough IMO to justify some of these comments. He definitely isnt scapegoated, until he scores a goal in a meaningful game, its tough to go overboard. If thats an obsession with stats, I dont agree. Goals are a little more than a stat.

I definitely think that he is not a central striker, just as much as he isnt a wide man in a 4-2-3-1. Probably as a 10 or as a wide striker in a 4-3-3 is his best position.

[chaddyrovers]

24 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I definitely think that he is not a central striker, just as much as he isnt a wide man in a 4-2-3-1. Probably as a 10 or as a wide striker in a 4-3-3 is his best position.

So you agree with my reply when I said he is suited to a wide role in the front 3 in 4-3-3 formation

Edited September 23, 2020 by chaddyrovers

[roversfan99]

11 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

So you agree with my reply when I said he is suited to a wide role in the front 3 in 4-2-3-1 formation

Im guessing you mean 4-3-3 as per your comment? If so, then yeah if its in a 4-3-3 because he certainly isnt a central striker.

I think people are getting a little carried away making out as if he is being scapegoated or suggesting that it is anything but fair to point out his pitiful goal record. He has improved in his general play lately but he has received plenty of constructive criticism over his time here.

I thought it was a missed opportunity to leave him on for 90 minutes v a dismal 10 man Wycombe side, if ever there was a chance to get a goal.

 

[chaddyrovers]

59 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Im guessing you mean 4-3-3 as per your comment? If so, then yeah if its in a 4-3-3 because he certainly isnt a central striker.

I think people are getting a little carried away making out as if he is being scapegoated or suggesting that it is anything but fair to point out his pitiful goal record. He has improved in his general play lately but he has received plenty of constructive criticism over his time here.

I thought it was a missed opportunity to leave him on for 90 minutes v a dismal 10 man Wycombe side, if ever there was a chance to get a goal.

 

Yes 4-3-3 formation. He isn't number 9 striker but a player who played on the wide in 4-3-3. 

He has improved this season here. Much better. 

That's fair point unless there is other reason we dont know about like minor injury or knock. We dont always know

[Guest]

 

[JacknOry]

For context, what games does that include from the 20/21 season? Just our 2 championship matches?

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Yes 4-3-3 formation. He isn't number 9 striker but a player who played on the wide in 4-3-3. 

He has improved this season here. Much better. 

That's fair point unless there is other reason we dont know about like minor injury or knock. We dont always know

This season has only been 4 games, and still no goals as of yet. Mixed bag v Doncaster, good play for the second goal but missed an open net. Poor v Newcastle, few good things v Wycombe but again no goal threat, and ineffective at Bournemouth.

1 hour ago, JoeH said:

 

Thanks for the analysis.

With Brereton though, ultimately for all of the "progressive runs" and "touches in pen area" until he starts offering a goal threat or really stamping his authority on games, progression may be fair in terms of the very, very low benchmark but it still wont be enough.

Its hard not to be desperate especially for him to really push on, and it is slightly better, but its nowhere near enough.