Ben Brereton Diaz

[Exiled in Toronto]

3 hours ago, arbitro said:

When the corner is delivered the scorer runs off Brereton. When he heads it Lenihan is the closest to him. It appears that Mowbray uses zonal marking in the six yard box and goes man to man outside of it. Another example of over complicating something that is relatively simple.

I noticed that yesterday too. Three men along the six yard box with another midway between that and the goal line near the front edge of the box, the rest man-marking. Although obviously, without enough men to mark everyone.

[jim mk2]

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

We’ve all played amateur football and had the odd game were we looked like world beaters.

I know what you mean TS. I was world class every time playing in the back garden

On Brereton, he very much relies on confidence, A while ago he was in good form and playing well but at the moment he looks shot. I'd like to see him what he can do under a better coach and manager because he has alot of attributes, although he is unlikely ever to be a prolific scorer

[Hasta]

5 hours ago, matt83 said:

Brereton probably had a 6 months purple patch this time last year 

Well I'd probably accept that his best spell for us was mid-March to mid June last year.

[Ulrich]

I think the way he was introduced to the team was a serious issue. He got signed and never played, sub here and there with TM basically showing no faith in him and not playing him as a striker. If TM wasn't going to start him, or play him up top then why sign him? BB was young, doing OK at forest and then came here and never got given a chance. TM has ruined his development, stunted his growth and now he isn't worth 2m,let alone 7m. Why sign a striker, and handle him like TM did?

Edited April 3, 2021 by Ulrich

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

4 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

I noticed that yesterday too. Three men along the six yard box with another midway between that and the goal line near the front edge of the box, the rest man-marking. Although obviously, without enough men to mark everyone.

The defending team should always have a spare man defending at a corner. The opposition have one man at least actually taking the corner.

It’s just rank bad defensive organisation. In my book zonal marking is a mistake waiting to happen. Expecting Bremerton to mark anyone is a joke. He’d be better off stood on the half way line ensuring the opposition have to bring a player or two back to mark him.

Edited April 3, 2021 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[rigger]

2 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

The defending team should always have a spare man defending at a corner. The opposition have one man at least actually taking the corner.

It’s just rank bad defensive organisation. In my book zonal marking is a mistake waiting to happen. Expecting Bremerton to mark anyone is a joke. He’d be better off stood on the half way line ensuring the opposition have to bring a player or two back to mark him.

As we are shit at defending corners, I would leave two player up, one tall, one fast. Most teams would bring back 3 players to mark them. Plus the one taking the corner, means that there are 8 defenders and the keeper against 6 attackers.  

[Claytons Left Boot]

I’ve posted this before but a mate of mine, once in a blue moon, gets invited to corporate in the Jack Walker stand. Not too long after we signed Brereton, my friend was there with a couple of Forest fans at the Forest game. They couldn’t believe the fee we paid and reckoned it was one of the best pieces of business they had ever done.

[Tormund]

Not saying he’s that good, but with the right manager there could be a player in him. Don’t think we’ll ever get to see it though.

[perthblue02]

14 hours ago, Ulrich said:

I think the way he was introduced to the team was a serious issue. He got signed and never played, sub here and there with TM basically showing no faith in him and not playing him as a striker. If TM wasn't going to start him, or play him up top then why sign him? BB was young, doing OK at forest and then came here and never got given a chance. TM has ruined his development, stunted his growth and now he isn't worth 2m,let alone 7m. Why sign a striker, and handle him like TM did?

Might be wrong but think the reason stated by TM at the time was that he needs to work on his upper body strength. Considering how easily he falls over maybe that was not the right call, despite that I agree with what was included in Jim Mk2 's post a couple of posts up

"I'd like to see him what he can do under a better coach and manager because he has alot of attributes, although he is unlikely ever to be a prolific scorer"

[Mattyblue]

Been generally terrible in his time here. However, I finally saw some glimpses earlier this season (his game, even at its best, seems to be to go on a run and look for a foul, but at least he was doing it fairly effectively), then he misses a month or so with injury and regresses straight back to the mean.

A player so fragile, so easily knocked is going to struggle to ever make it at a decent level - though like all of them, I’d be interested to see them under a decent coaching set up.

[Hasta]

On 03/04/2021 at 07:56, arbitro said:

Brereton has never been good enough and I don't think he ever will improve but he has some sympathy from me. It wasn't him who decided he was worth £7m and put massive expectations on him through that. It was Mowbray who decided to pay hugely over the odds on the strength of a dead rubber match at Trent Bridge if the stories are to be believed. It's just another awful Mowbray decision and now it's almost like he is trying to prove himself right by playing him when he is clearly out of his depth. In just over a years time Brereton is out of contract giving somebody a big decision to make.

This is another area to watch. 

With all of the other repair and replace that needs doing in the squad this summer, Brereton isn't perceived as an issue. But sooner or later somebody needs to decide whether to cut their losses and let him leave in 12 months, or offer him a new contract in the hope that he comes good and they can recoup some money in later years.

I suspect new contract will be incoming over the summer as they will still feel they can get something back from the player, and therefore he will be shoe-horned in front of the likes of Dolan to justify it.

He was better this season than the previous two, but he was still pretty poor. 

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by Hasta

[AllRoverAsia]

Unless he can meet a later day Big Sam and be converted to a bruiser Striker than he's doomed to be .... well just below mediocre.

Kevin Davies as least started with a decent shot and would at least put his head to the ball.

Edited May 12, 2021 by AllRoverAsia

[JacknOry]

His last goal was a proper CF goal. Showed a lot of strength and produced a tidy finish where he would normally just fall over to try and buy a free kick. It at least shows he has it in him. 

 

[AllRoverAsia]

17 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

His last goal was a proper CF goal. Showed a lot of strength and produced a tidy finish where he would normally just fall over to try and buy a free kick. It at least shows he has it in him. 

 

It was a good strike. In the stopped clock category.

[Exiled_Rover]

1 hour ago, Hasta said:

This is another area to watch. 

With all of the other repair and replace that needs doing in the squad this summer, Brereton isn't perceived as an issue. But sooner or later somebody needs to decide whether to cut their losses and let him leave in 12 months, or offer him a new contract in the hope that he comes good and they can recoup some money in later years.

I suspect new contract will be incoming over the summer as they will still feel they can get something back from the player, and therefore he will be shoe-horned in front of the likes of Dolan to justify it.

He was better this season than the previous two, but he was still pretty poor. 

 

He's better than Dolan though - albeit there's room for both in the starting 11.

[Bigdoggsteel]

55 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

His last goal was a proper CF goal. Showed a lot of strength and produced a tidy finish where he would normally just fall over to try and buy a free kick. It at least shows he has it in him. 

 

Who was the defender again? cos ya you wouldn't often see Brereton do that 

[TheWeasel]

In defense of Brereton he started the season really well, picked up a two week injury and was inexplicably used as a bit part player whilst we were struggling then picked up again ass end of the season when he was consistently picked again. His numbers from out wide are nothing to be scoffed at and he's got very useful attributes. Under a different manager he'd be even better. I think Brereton largely is one of the players Mowbray has done the dirtiest in his time here with garbage management. The handling of him has been baffling and pathetic.

 

[TheRoversReturn]

1 hour ago, Hasta said:

With all of the other repair and replace that needs doing in the squad this summer, Brereton isn't perceived as an issue. But sooner or later somebody needs to decide whether to cut their losses and let him leave in 12 months, or offer him a new contract in the hope that he comes good and they can recoup some money in later years.

He was better this season than the previous two, but he was still pretty poor. 

 

I'm sorry but I completely disagree with this and don't know what the issue is with someone who is still a young player. 

He was one of our best players for most of last season and he only celebrated his 22nd birthday a couple of weeks ago. He's almost four years younger than Sam Gallagher, he's six months younger than supposed player-in-the-making Jacob Davenport (who can barely get in the team) and 18 months younger than both Harry Chapman and Lewis Travis. 

Just because we paid a lot of money for him doesn't change the laws of physics. He's just turned 22, he's showing a lot of potential and he needs to be given time to grow into the player he has the potential to be. Yes, we all expected a lot more considering the ridiculous fee, but let's remember he was a callow teenager when we (over)paid that. 

Rovers fans need to leave Ben alone and allow him to develop. 

 

[windymiller7]

Not forgetting "he's such a baby" (Bradley Dack, 8 May 2021) 😂

I proper chuckled at that one, plus "I usually have a go at him for being a bit thick" 😄

[Hasta]

1 hour ago, TheRoversReturn said:

He was one of our best players for most of last season

You see, that's where we disagree. I think he was generally average to poor. So our viewpoint on extending his contract is going to differ.

At 22, you tend to know the abilities and limitations of players and I don't think he's going to be anything other than a mediocre Championship player. 

After 3 years we still don't know if he's a striker or a driving midfielder-cum-winger, as he doesn't look good enough at all as the former and all his better performances have come as the latter.

I think he could be replaced and improved upon relatively easily by a decent coaching / scouting network, but it wouldn't make financial sense to the club to discard an asset and spend more money to replace it. And that's my problem. In order to try and maximise the value of the asset, we will not look at replacing and improving the team when I believe it would be relatively easy to do so. (although the amount of squad renovation required means that there are more important changes needed elsewhere)

I'd be curious to see if a new manager came in whether he would see the potential in BB also, or if he would be limited in his appearances as the new manager would not have to worry about justifying the purchase.

 

 

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by Hasta

[Exiled_Rover]

2 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Who was the defender again? cos ya you wouldn't often see Brereton do that 

Kristian Pedersen, a Danish international.

[TheRoversReturn]

10 hours ago, Hasta said:

You see, that's where we disagree. I think he was generally average to poor. So our viewpoint on extending his contract is going to differ.

At 22, you tend to know the abilities and limitations of players and I don't think he's going to be anything other than a mediocre Championship player. 

Fair enough, happy to agree to disagree with your first point. I also disagree with the second paragraph. Nothing wrong with different opinions. 

When it comes to Ben, we'll see in the next few years what he turns into and if, indeed, he's even at Rovers by then. Alas, Mowbray is not a manager to improve players. How many players have actually improved under him in his four years+ here? 

So perhaps you're right and he won't be anything other than a mediocre Championship player. Other than AA, TM hardly seems to have what it takes to inspire players to improve, does he?

Edited May 13, 2021 by TheRoversReturn

[Fraserkirky]

I thought Ben showed flashes last year, without setting the Heather fully ablaze. 

If Tony is staying, Next year, I think he might put Brereton through the middle where Armstrong has been playing, and buy in a wide player or two. I think Ben is ready for that role now, he seems a bit stronger.

Edited May 13, 2021 by Fraserkirky

[Bigdoggsteel]

4 hours ago, Fraserkirky said:

I thought Ben showed flashes last year, without setting the Heather fully ablaze. 

If Tony is staying, Next year, I think he might put Brereton through the middle where Armstrong has been playing, and buy in a wide player or two. I think Ben is ready for that role now, he seems a bit stronger.

Mowbray isn't able to sign wide players. He either plays people out of position or signs players he doesn't rate or trust. Of the two I would prefer Gallagher centrally,if only because Brereton is better wide 

Edited May 13, 2021 by Bigdoggsteel

[LeftWinger]

5 hours ago, Fraserkirky said:

I thought Ben showed flashes last year, without setting the Heather fully ablaze. 

If Tony is staying, Next year, I think he might put Brereton through the middle where Armstrong has been playing, and buy in a wide player or two. I think Ben is ready for that role now, he seems a bit stronger.

If we are expecting Brereton to score enough goals to replace Armstrong then we are in serious trouble.