Ben Brereton Diaz

[Mhead2]

I think everyone is forgetting a non-football issue. To avoid the FFP problems that Rovers have(low Commercial Income and even lower Gate receipts) we now need to raise £10mn per year from other sources. This explains Adam Armstrong; potential sale and lease back of Brockhall; and the sale of one or two players in January. So those who have not signed  contract extensions HAVE to be sold ......and we need to keep the Wages Bill down because this is the key Expenditure vs Income figure....everything else for BRFC rotates round that.

If Tracey Crouch's Review can sort out the 'trickle down' from the PL, and end parachute payments then the Rovers have a sounder future. We will still need a more 'aware' BRFC Management to switch-on new supporters and sponsors/advertisers to bridge the gap. The key to it for the forseeable future will be players wages out of kilter with the financial reality of their Clubs.

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

All of them players will surely be right near the bottom of our wage structure, minimal to no interest from elsewhere, Wharton with an injury too, different ball game to our senior players who we are unable to offer sufficient terms to.

Dolan and Buckley are key players to the team this season and deserved their new contracts. Dolan has been outstanding since joining the club and will only get better as time goes on. I would be looking at new 5 years contract already for him. and to be honest the same for Buckley who I think so far has shown his quality to the team again this season

 

 

[roversfan99]

6 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Dolan and Buckley are key players to the team this season and deserved their new contracts. Dolan has been outstanding since joining the club and will only get better as time goes on. I would be looking at new 5 years contract already for him. and to be honest the same for Buckley who I think so far has shown his quality to the team again this season

 

 

Not the point that I was making. Senior players with 100+ games and noticeable impact on Championship games, ones who would interest other teams if they were free, we cant get them to sign.

Dolan signed a new deal about 20 senior games into his career, at least half from the bench. Buckley signed his last season before establishing himself as a regular. Carter had about 4/5 senior starts at Championship level before signing, Wharton himself had about 10 maximum and was suffering from serious injury. They are far easier and far cheaper to get to sign.

 

[bluebruce]

11 minutes ago, rigger said:

Why should I look again at my post. It is what I believe. If you don't agree, that is your prerogative. I still don't class ten championship and two Chillean goals as, Made It. He scored a good goal this morning, and long may it continue, but that doesn't make him a good player. To me it makes him an improved player 

Nobody in the league has more goals than him. Are there no good attackers in the league?

[chaddyrovers]

3 minutes ago, rigger said:

Why should I look again at my post. It is what I believe. If you don't agree, that is your prerogative. I still don't class ten championship and two Chillean goals as, Made It. He scored a good goal this morning, and long may it continue, but that doesn't make him a good player. To me it makes him an improved player 

I deffo don't agreed cos his performances this season have been very good and he is scoring goals. Similar form to Armstrong in the previous 18 months. 

Yes he scored a good goal this morning for Chile but he is performing well for his nation team. 

He has been improving for the past 14 months before this season and will continue to do so. I expected we will received 12 to 15 million pounds for him this summer and I expected we accept the bid and reinvested it in the squad. 

2 minutes ago, Mhead2 said:

I think everyone is forgetting a non-football issue. To avoid the FFP problems that Rovers have(low Commercial Income and even lower Gate receipts) we now need to raise £10mn per year from other sources. This explains Adam Armstrong; potential sale and lease back of Brockhall; and the sale of one or two players in January. So those who have not signed  contract extensions HAVE to be sold ......and we need to keep the Wages Bill down because this is the key Expenditure vs Income figure....everything else for BRFC rotates round that.

If Tracey Crouch's Review can sort out the 'trickle down' from the PL, and end parachute payments then the Rovers have a sounder future. We will still need a more 'aware' BRFC Management to switch-on new supporters and sponsors/advertisers to bridge the gap. The key to it for the forseeable future will be players wages out of kilter with the financial reality of their Clubs.

We are allowed to make 39 million pounds losses over 3 seasons and I haven't seen a change to this rule and regulation. Has this change recently? 

I agree on players have to sold if those players won't sign new contracts in January. Those players are Rothwell, Lenihan and Nyambe. 

Yes we have to keep the wage bill down  but we should be looking at players with 6 months left on their contracts and signing them in January like John Souttar who I see was linked with us yesterday and I think Rovers are looking for Lenihan replacement already. 

[chaddyrovers]

2 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Not the point that I was making. Senior players with 100+ games and noticeable impact on Championship games, ones who would interest other teams if they were free, we cant get them to sign.

Dolan signed a new deal about 20 senior games into his career, at least half from the bench. Buckley signed his last season before establishing himself as a regular. Carter had about 4/5 senior starts at Championship level before signing, Wharton himself had about 10 maximum and was suffering from serious injury. They are far easier and far cheaper to get to sign.

 

I've only seen Rangers interested in Rothwell but not seen other clubs linked/interested in Nyambe or Lenihan. Have I missed that? 

Yes they might be easier to do in your mind but they still need the club to be attractive to them by offering them the opportunity to play and develop as a player. 

Lenihan and Rothwell are mid/late 20 and I would expect them to want to explore their options and thats what they are doing. If they aren't willing to commit to the club then we need to sell them in January and bring in replacements that want to be here

[roversfan99]

5 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I've only seen Rangers interested in Rothwell but not seen other clubs linked/interested in Nyambe or Lenihan. Have I missed that? 

Yes they might be easier to do in your mind but they still need the club to be attractive to them by offering them the opportunity to play and develop as a player. 

Lenihan and Rothwell are mid/late 20 and I would expect them to want to explore their options and thats what they are doing. If they aren't willing to commit to the club then we need to sell them in January and bring in replacements that want to be here

My point was that the important and more senior players, including our captain, main goalscorer and best full back are all proving too difficult to get to sign again, whereas kids on the fringes yet to prove themselves fully are the ones we can get done.

I think it is a self explanatory point and one that you are arguing about for the sake of it, to be honest. 

[roverblue]

Just a point on his first 2 seasons at Rovers, the manager barely gave him any game time and if he did then it was for the last 5 or 10 mins of a match. Whether the manager thought he wasn't ready or the Dack/Graham combo was a factor who knows. But I don't agree with people saying he was rubbish those first 2 season, he just never played anywhere near enough.

In his first 2 seasons he played just over 600 mins in each one. This season he has already played just shy of 1,000 mins after 11 games. 

I personally feel the lad was given a hard time by the manager and a some of our fans in those first couple of years. Delighted to see him come good over the last season or so, not surprisingly when he actually starts games and builds up a bit of form and confidence.

[roversfan99]

6 minutes ago, roverblue said:

Just a point on his first 2 seasons at Rovers, the manager barely gave him any game time and if he did then it was for the last 5 or 10 mins of a match. Whether the manager thought he wasn't ready or the Dack/Graham combo was a factor who knows. But I don't agree with people saying he was rubbish those first 2 season, he just never played anywhere near enough.

In his first 2 seasons he played just over 600 mins in each one. This season he has already played just shy of 1,000 mins after 11 games. 

I personally feel the lad was given a hard time by the manager and a some of our fans in those first couple of years. Delighted to see him come good over the last season or so, not surprisingly when he actually starts games and builds up a bit of form and confidence.

When he did make cameos, he looked so poor though, he didn't warrant or justify more of a chance, especially with the Dack and Graham combination as you mention.

I don't like the idea that he got a hard time off the supporters though. Criticism in places like forums (and even on social media although you get a lot of real idiots on both sides of every argument there) is perfectly fine, in the ground he has never been given a hard time.

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

27 minutes ago, roverblue said:

Just a point on his first 2 seasons at Rovers, the manager barely gave him any game time and if he did then it was for the last 5 or 10 mins of a match. Whether the manager thought he wasn't ready or the Dack/Graham combo was a factor who knows. But I don't agree with people saying he was rubbish those first 2 season, he just never played anywhere near enough.

In his first 2 seasons he played just over 600 mins in each one. This season he has already played just shy of 1,000 mins after 11 games. 

I personally feel the lad was given a hard time by the manager and a some of our fans in those first couple of years. Delighted to see him come good over the last season or so, not surprisingly when he actually starts games and builds up a bit of form and confidence.

I don’t think there were many fans that felt Brereton didn’t get a fair amount of opportunities up until last season. He played often enough to make a difference and he didn’t. Very easy to criticise now that he’s come good but this was hardly foreseeable given how average, at best, he had looked up until the end of last season.

[Bad Boy]

24 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

When he did make cameos, he looked so poor though, he didn't warrant or justify more of a chance, especially with the Dack and Graham combination as you mention.

I don't like the idea that he got a hard time off the supporters though. Criticism in places like forums (and even on social media although you get a lot of real idiots on both sides of every argument there) is perfectly fine, in the ground he has never been given a hard time.

 Birmingham away in the FA Cup, I saw him walk off in tears thanks to the abuse from the Rovers fans; probably done by some of the same people giving dogs abuse to Tyler at Blackpool.

 

Hang your heads in shame.

Edited October 11, 2021 by Bad Boy

[chaddyrovers]

37 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

My point was that the important and more senior players, including our captain, main goalscorer and best full back are all proving too difficult to get to sign again, whereas kids on the fringes yet to prove themselves fully are the ones we can get done.

I think it is a self explanatory point and one that you are arguing about for the sake of it, to be honest. 

Yes players like Rothwell, Nyambe and Lenihan have been offered new improved contracts by club as we were told a couple of weeks ago. But if they want to move on and look for better contract or move to new club then we can't stop them. With the Championship money tree ending at most clubs now and the vast of majority of championship club cutting back on their wage bill now. Its a risky strategy for them. If they want to sign new contracts here great and I would be happy about but if they only want to chase the money tree or want a new challenge at new club then good luck to them in the future, 

But I would hope that if we are going to sell any of these out of contract players like Lenihan, Nyambe, Rothwell, Davenport then our chief of Recruitment and his recruitment team have players being scouted right now and we have lined up players we will sign when or if they go. I know who I would look at to replace Lenihan and Nyambe with. 

But going back to Brereton is I don't see him here next season unless he picks up serious long term injury. If we can get 15 million pounds this summer then I expected we would accept that and invest some of them towards signings and some of it towards the budget and offsetting the club season losses. 

[islander200]

56 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

When he did make cameos, he looked so poor though, he didn't warrant or justify more of a chance, especially with the Dack and Graham combination as you mention.

I don't like the idea that he got a hard time off the supporters though. Criticism in places like forums (and even on social media although you get a lot of real idiots on both sides of every argument there) is perfectly fine, in the ground he has never been given a hard time.

I agree he looked poor in the cameos more often than not but I'm also a great believer that a player needs a run of games and continuity to show what they can do.

Brererton and Buckley look a lot better after longer spells in the side.I think Buckley would be further along if the manager could decide on a position for him and stick to it rather than it changing regularly.

In his first couple of seasons you could argue Brererton's cameo didn't warrant an extended spell in the side, but we had paid 7 million for him and even when the season was all but over and just dead rubbers left to play Mowbray still didn't give him a run and continued to play players that weren't even going to be here the following season

[Claytons Left Boot]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

He has been improving for the past 14 months before this season and will continue to do so. I expected we will received 12 to 15 million pounds for him this summer and I expected we accept the bid and reinvested it in the squad. 

Let’s get a bit of perspective here, Brereton has most certainly not yet ‘made it.’ He showed glimpses last season of what just may be round the corner and this season he has continued to improve. Prior to that, the opinion of most Rovers fans was that it was a damned long time since we had seen such a poor player. Let’s be honest, he was poor with a capital P.

A friend of mine went in corporate, not long after we had signed him from Forest. That game was against Forest and a couple of their fans couldn’t believe the fee they had secured for him, given his abilities, or lack of them. They thought it was their best bit of business for years.

The fact that he has (so far) turned things around is superb. We all want the best for the player, whichever player, and the best for the club. The problem is, it’s only October. He could lose form, suffer a serious injury, get dropped or whatever. In my opinion, if he scores 18-25 in the Championship, two seasons running, we will have a valuable player on our hands and he will have gone some way to ‘making it.’

Unfortunately, I can see his head getting turned. Agents and all that, people on the make. Money, money, money. Should he finish this season with a tally like I’ve mentioned, I can well see him then ending up at a Watford or a Southampton and it all ending in tears.

No, he’s not made it yet but, as we all do, I wish him well.

[chaddyrovers]

1 minute ago, Claytons Left Boot said:

Let’s get a bit of perspective here, Brereton has most certainly not yet ‘made it.’ He showed glimpses last season of what just may be round the corner and this season he has continued to improve. Prior to that, the opinion of most Rovers fans was that it was a damned long time since we had seen such a poor player. Let’s be honest, he was poor with a capital P.

I think last season he shown more than glimpses and I said this summer that I thought he would replace Armstrong goals and set up to the plate and score goals. So far he has done this and done excellent so far. 

on his first 2 seasons he wasn't given enough game time here and used has a sub player.

1 minute ago, Claytons Left Boot said:

A friend of mine went in corporate, not long after we had signed him from Forest. That game was against Forest and a couple of their fans couldn’t believe the fee they had secured for him, given his abilities, or lack of them. They thought it was their best bit of business for years.

Well when we signed him I was happy with him cos from what Ive seen of him thought we signed a talent player. 

2 minutes ago, Claytons Left Boot said:

The fact that he has (so far) turned things around is superb. We all want the best for the player, whichever player, and the best for the club. The problem is, it’s only October. He could lose form, suffer a serious injury, get dropped or whatever. In my opinion, if he scores 18-25 in the Championship, two seasons running, we will have a valuable player on our hands and he will have gone some way to ‘making it.’

Unfortunately, I can see his head getting turned. Agents and all that, people on the make. Money, money, money. Should he finish this season with a tally like I’ve mentioned, I can well see him then ending up at a Watford or a Southampton and it all ending in tears.

I can see him going to Spanish or Portuguese club tbh this summer if he continue his performances and keep scoring. I don't see him here next season unless he gets a long term injury. 

 

[lraC]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I deffo don't agreed cos his performances this season have been very good and he is scoring goals. Similar form to Armstrong in the previous 18 months. 

Yes he scored a good goal this morning for Chile but he is performing well for his nation team. 

He has been improving for the past 14 months before this season and will continue to do so. I expected we will received 12 to 15 million pounds for him this summer and I expected we accept the bid and reinvested it in the squad. 

We are allowed to make 39 million pounds losses over 3 seasons and I haven't seen a change to this rule and regulation. Has this change recently? 

I agree on players have to sold if those players won't sign new contracts in January. Those players are Rothwell, Lenihan and Nyambe. 

Yes we have to keep the wage bill down  but we should be looking at players with 6 months left on their contracts and signing them in January like John Souttar who I see was linked with us yesterday and I think Rovers are looking for Lenihan replacement already. 

That’s the first time I’ve seen that suggestion on here. We aren’t the only club, who have players, whose contracts are being wound down. Getting those types of players in, compensates us for the ones leaving. It is a balancing act.

[roversfan99]

55 minutes ago, Bad Boy said:

 Birmingham away in the FA Cup, I saw him walk off in tears thanks to the abuse from the Rovers fans; probably done by some of the same people giving dogs abuse to Tyler at Blackpool.

 

Hang your heads in shame.

I didn't go to that Blackpool game, I remember watching it online though and Brereton was hopeless and didn't seem to be fully trying even. Out of interest, what was the abuse that day, one or two pissed up people or quite a few, swearing/insults, personal stuff, booing, what exactly was it? Was he definitely crying and as a direct consequence as it never seems to have been acknowledged since publically, even in a "look how far he has come since" kind of way.

I was at Blackpool away however, and heard no such "dogs abuse" to the hapless Magloire. Again, what sort of abuse did you hear, the odd piss head calling him shit, or something more substantial?

Mowbray regularly talks about loaning out kids to feel what professional football feels like, when working class people pay good money and spend good time travelling up and down the country, and when their team isn't performing, it is normal that the frustration spills out, and it is a different way from the uncompetitive, sanitised world of kids football. I am trying to establish exactly what you have witnessed, whether it is normal frustration spilling over or something that overstepped the mark. I think there is this narrative that unfairly grows as if Rovers fans at stadiums are an unruly pitchfork wielding mob which would be obviously untrue.

20 minutes ago, islander200 said:

I agree he looked poor in the cameos more often than not but I'm also a great believer that a player needs a run of games and continuity to show what they can do.

Brererton and Buckley look a lot better after longer spells in the side.I think Buckley would be further along if the manager could decide on a position for him and stick to it rather than it changing regularly.

In his first couple of seasons you could argue Brererton's cameo didn't warrant an extended spell in the side, but we had paid 7 million for him and even when the season was all but over and just dead rubbers left to play Mowbray still didn't give him a run and continued to play players that weren't even going to be here the following season

I think Mowbray's approach to blooding youngsters towards the end of the seasons is definitely mixed, I felt he did well letting Carter having a couple of games the season before last, realising that he was nowhere near ready and eventually got him loaned out, but in the main he can be reluctant as I felt was the case last season. But Brereton did get quite a few starts towards the end of that season if I recall, one of which was against Bolton. I do think he took him back out though for the last 2, definitely Norwich away, and a few others have not been given enough experimentation.

The problem is, its long term v short term, ultimately the most important thing (until if you get near the end of the season and there is little to play for) is to win the next game, which is why it makes me laugh when Mowbray has been criticised this season for bringing on loanees over permanent players, as if that should come into consideration during a game so early into the season, and often with the irony of said permanent player being in the last year of his deal. I still don't think that Buckley has performed to a level whereby his selection is guaranteed even now, although in the absence of much credible alternatives, it is natural that he gets a run.

[TheRoversReturn]

4 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

In his first 18/24 months, he showed minimal if any signs of even being a promising talent, he looked hopeless, and I felt that Ewood was very supportive of him, I recall the happiness/relief for him after his goal v Bolton. This nasty supporter narrative that some seem keen to thrust forward at every opportunity really does confuse me.

Mowbray dropped him the next game...we've seen what a confidence player he is since, just highlights his mismanagement during his time here. 

He plays under a new manager and suddenly he's Diazman!

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, Bad Boy said:

 Birmingham away in the FA Cup, I saw him walk off in tears thanks to the abuse from the Rovers fans; probably done by some of the same people giving dogs abuse to Tyler at Blackpool.

 

Hang your heads in shame.

Wasn't that put to bed by several sources as complete nonsense around the time.

[Wheelton Blue]

There;s no doubt that Brereton has improved over the past few months, and is in a rich wein of form for both club and country.

Long may that continue.

To say he's 'made it' though, is a tad OTT. Made what exactly?

Prior to his recent improvement, his starting point was pretty darn low. To have previously described him as 'atrocious' wouldn't have been too wide of the mark. He was dire.

Edited October 11, 2021 by Wheelton Blue

[rigger]

3 hours ago, JohnGo said:

I don’t believe you, are you just a windup merchant? Did you rate Armstrong? He was slow to start and look at his return. He’s got 10 goals and the seasons not at the half way stage. As for Chile they may not be a strong as seasons past, but all South American teams are some of the strongest on the planet.

You could say the same about Scotland, in relation to Europe

[Mike E]

1 hour ago, Bad Boy said:

 Birmingham away in the FA Cup, I saw him walk off in tears thanks to the abuse from the Rovers fans; probably done by some of the same people giving dogs abuse to Tyler at Blackpool.

 

Hang your heads in shame.

Not heard of Brereton allegedly crying until you mentioned it.

As I recall that game, the team got some comments aimed their way, but nothing untoward, not even a 'you're not fit to wear the shirt'.

[JacknOry]

2 hours ago, roverblue said:

Just a point on his first 2 seasons at Rovers, the manager barely gave him any game time and if he did then it was for the last 5 or 10 mins of a match. Whether the manager thought he wasn't ready or the Dack/Graham combo was a factor who knows. But I don't agree with people saying he was rubbish those first 2 season, he just never played anywhere near enough.

In his first 2 seasons he played just over 600 mins in each one. This season he has already played just shy of 1,000 mins after 11 games. 

I personally feel the lad was given a hard time by the manager and a some of our fans in those first couple of years. Delighted to see him come good over the last season or so, not surprisingly when he actually starts games and builds up a bit of form and confidence.

Thats bull - hardly gave him game time? Are you 5 years old? I suggest you go back and check your stats.

[JacknOry]

We sign a player for 7 mil and hardly give him game time - some people with their re-writing of history.

[Gordon Gekko]

Reckon I’m going to accept the £1250 Cash out offer now on SkyBet. Getting well too risky with his current form and chance of being sold in a January!