Ben Brereton Diaz

[Wheelton Blue]

For a club like ours, in the financial position we're in, to spend 7m on a 'project' is ludicrous.

For that amount of money we should expect the real deal from day one, not after a dozen decent games 3 years down the line.

[Bigdoggsteel]

23 minutes ago, Wheelton Blue said:

For a club like ours, in the financial position we're in, to spend 7m on a 'project' is ludicrous.

For that amount of money we should expect the real deal from day one, not after a dozen decent games 3 years down the line.

I would prefer what has happened with Brereton, rather than a big money signing never delivering, which happens a lot. 

[LeftWinger]

10 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I would prefer what has happened with Brereton, rather than a big money signing never delivering, which happens a lot. 

That's probably a fair point. Who else have we ever paid more than £7m for?

Cole, Grabbi, Davies, Rhodes, Ferguson?

Rhodes a success, Cole a success to a degree (kept us up, won a trophy), the other three were disasters.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

12 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I would prefer what has happened with Brereton, rather than a big money signing never delivering, which happens a lot. 

At the end of the day the object of the exercise in signing players is to get us out of this division. Anything else is a waste of time and money. Both of those things are now in short supply. We’re no longer  a club that can invest big money in “ project “ signings.

[LordBaltimore]

In case anyone had doubts, Breretonmanía continues unabated in Chile.....and beyond?

From Chile's national news last night.

[K-Hod]

2 hours ago, S8 & Blue said:

I understood the "project" side of it and always thought he'd turn out to be a very good player from what I had seen. I give Mowbray credit for the signing, but he really did hang him out to dry a bit imo by not giving him a run of games for years.

I mean, so did I, but £7 Million quid for us is a lot, especially if someone isn’t going into the first team immediately and making a real difference.

[roversfan99]

And even if it was, there were no real shoots of promise in the first 18/24 months, he didn't warrant more game time because he struggled to avoid tripping over his own feet. His last 15/18 months were not predictable by anyone prior, no matter how much people try to make out as such based on a desperation to paint our supporters as villains.

[LordBaltimore]

I was reading about how BBD has won over his team mates in the locker room, in addition to winning over the fans.  Several players praised his attitude, his guts/balls when facing opposition, his work rate, that he is quiet [language limitations no doubt] and is humble, not seeking the limelight which has found him.

Carlos Caszely, [Chile's best player in the 70s & early 80s, awarded the 1st red card in world cup history in '74 & infamous in Chile for missing a penalty in the 82WC] said that Bréreton Díaz is doing what Arturo Vidal does for the team in transmitting a certain energy to everyone around him.   BBD "transmits the same as Arturo Vidal. He runs, he fights, he runs to the endline, he does not give up lost balls. He dlivers a lot of energy. That is positive, because it is contagious to teammates ”. 

You can see how much he's grown into the team since the Copa América a few months ago.  He's finally getting passes & his team mates are looking for him.  You can feel the love in the way his team mates mobbed him after he destroyed the Paraguayan net with his blast.

Someone on here a few days ago predicted the chilean fans and/or media would turn against BBD if chile doesnt qualify or if he misses a key penalty or something.  That shows a lack of understanding or appreciation of how much BBD is loved & how he is thought about.  He is thought of in a way that is different from any other player, different than anyone i've ever seen play for Chile.  The love is unconditional, like the love for your child.  It's weird to put it in those terms but BBD can literally do no wrong.  He could miss the penalty that costs chile a place in the next world cup and it would not be held against him.  That he doesnt speak the languages adds to his aura.  He has endeared himself to chileans like no one i have ever seen.

 

[islander200]

14 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

And even if it was, there were no real shoots of promise in the first 18/24 months, he didn't warrant more game time because he struggled to avoid tripping over his own feet. His last 15/18 months were not predictable by anyone prior, no matter how much people try to make out as such based on a desperation to paint our supporters as villains.

He had made 56 appearances and done enough for Forest to hold out for a 7 million fee they were adamant at the time they would not be selling for anything less.

He won young championship player of the year in his breakout season and had been linked with moves to Liverpool and Spurs.Played for England under age.

Rewrite history if you want but there was a few on here who said they could see a player in him.

Ain't you the guy who doesn't rate Declan Rice, a permanent fixture in the England side and a man coveted by big clubs.You also reckoned Mount was only making the Chelsea team because of Lampard.

These are young players, they only get better by playing something you don't seem to understand

 

[roversfan99]

6 minutes ago, LordBaltimore said:

I was reading about how BBD has won over his team mates in the locker room, in addition to winning over the fans.  Several players praised his attitude, his guts/balls when facing opposition, his work rate, that he is quiet [language limitations no doubt] and is humble, not seeking the limelight which has found him.

Carlos Caszely, [Chile's best player in the 70s & early 80s, awarded the 1st red card in world cup history in '74 & infamous in Chile for missing a penalty in the 82WC] said that Bréreton Díaz is doing what Arturo Vidal does for the team in transmitting a certain energy to everyone around him.   BBD "transmits the same as Arturo Vidal. He runs, he fights, he runs to the endline, he does not give up lost balls. He dlivers a lot of energy. That is positive, because it is contagious to teammates ”. 

You can see how much he's grown into the team since the Copa América a few months ago.  He's finally getting passes & his team mates are looking for him.  You can feel the love in the way his team mates mobbed him after he destroyed the Paraguayan net with his blast.

Someone on here a few days ago predicted the chilean fans and/or media would turn against BBD if chile doesnt qualify or if he misses a key penalty or something.  That shows a lack of understanding or appreciation of how much BBD is loved & how he is thought about.  He is thought of in a way that is different from any other player, different than anyone i've ever seen play for Chile.  The love is unconditional, like the love for your child.  It's weird to put it in those terms but BBD can literally do no wrong.  He could miss the penalty that costs chile a place in the next world cup and it would not be held against him.  That he doesnt speak the languages adds to his aura.  He has endeared himself to chileans like no one i have ever seen.

 

It wasn't a slight on Chile in particular, my point was more that it is impossible to know until if and when something like that happened.

[roversfan99]

Just now, islander200 said:

He had made 56 appearances and done enough for Forest to hold out for a 7 million fee they were adamant at the time they would not be selling for anything less.

He won young championship player of the year in his breakout season and had been linked with moves to Liverpool and Spurs.Played for England under age.

Rewrite history if you want but there was a few on here who said they could see a player in him.

Ain't you the guy who doesn't rate Declan Rice, a permanent fixture in the England side and a man coveted by big clubs.You also reckoned Mount was only making the Chelsea team because of Lampard.

These are young players, they only get better by playing something you don't seem to understand

 

The 7 million fee doesn't automatically mean he was worth that amount, Gallagher cost 5m, Grabbi cost 7m, Friedel was free, Dack was less than a million, I could go on. And plenty of players worse than Brereton have played for the England under age sides, Lowe was captain of the under 21s wasn't he?

I have seen a lot of desperation to paint fans in a bad light, in stadiums he has been given plenty of support, and I personally do not recall those shoots of promise in the first 2 seasons, merely putting him in the "young player who will get better by playing" category is not sufficient, he didn't warrant game time. His transformation has been as unexpected as it has been great to see, IMO. Those who did back him to come good 2 years ago didn't themselves predict what we see today, or necessarily say "he does this well" etc, it was more of a stick to bash with fans with for criticising a player who was playing poorly.

Not really relevant, not all young players will get up to the required standard so each case is individual. But Rice I don't think is a top class central midfielder but he is 100% a deserved and guaranteed pick for England and has personally developed well over the last year. Mount still needs to do more to warrant a similar role, he is behind Foden and Grealish for me, but he is a talented player for club and country. Brereton is not comparable.

[TheRoversReturn]

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

At the end of the day the object of the exercise in signing players is to get us out of this division. Anything else is a waste of time and money. Both of those things are now in short supply. We’re no longer  a club that can invest big money in “ project “ signings.

Not sure that's what the object of the exercise is under this lot. 

[islander200]

20 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

The 7 million fee doesn't automatically mean he was worth that amount, Gallagher cost 5m, Grabbi cost 7m, Friedel was free, Dack was less than a million, I could go on. And plenty of players worse than Brereton have played for the England under age sides, Lowe was captain of the under 21s wasn't he?

I have seen a lot of desperation to paint fans in a bad light, in stadiums he has been given plenty of support, and I personally do not recall those shoots of promise in the first 2 seasons, merely putting him in the "young player who will get better by playing" category is not sufficient, he didn't warrant game time. His transformation has been as unexpected as it has been great to see, IMO. Those who did back him to come good 2 years ago didn't themselves predict what we see today, or necessarily say "he does this well" etc, it was more of a stick to bash with fans with for criticising a player who was playing poorly.

Not really relevant, not all young players will get up to the required standard so each case is individual. But Rice I don't think is a top class central midfielder but he is 100% a deserved and guaranteed pick for England and has personally developed well over the last year. Mount still needs to do more to warrant a similar role, he is behind Foden and Grealish for me, but he is a talented player for club and country. Brereton is not comparable.

There are not many midfielders Rice's age that play such a pivotal role for their club and country.The lad will play for a top club I guarantee it.

On Mount I'm on about the things you were saying when he first broke into the Chelsea team,it's easy to say now he is a talented player but at the time you were suggesting it was his relationship with Lampard that was getting him into the Chelsea side and at the time you were also critical of his inclusion in the England set up.

On the 7 million, I'm on about Forest sticking to their 7 million valuation, they obviously felt he had the potential to push on,they needed books balancing after bringing in high cost foreign players.In all fairness the forest staff would know a lot more than you or I.Mick Rathbone for example said it was his opinion Brererton had the potential to be a £30 million pound player.

And again you are telling me what I have or haven't heard at the ground.Iv told you this before I heard the moans ,groans and abuse thrown at Brererton with my own two ears.

We had people on here claiming his career would end up in the lower leagues for Christ sake.

His improvement since the covid break has been vast.Last season , certainly pre injury he was one of our better players and has now added goals to his game.

Edited October 12, 2021 by islander200

[Mattyblue]

Course he’s going to get ‘moans and groans’ it’s a football ground and he was really poor week after week. But on the whole he was supported very well, and that’s credit to the home support ( though maybe that shows how the make up of the Ewood crowd has changed this past few years as it has reduced to a hardy core).

Edited October 12, 2021 by Mattyblue

[roversfan99]

2 minutes ago, islander200 said:

There are not many midfielders Rice's age that play such a pivotal role for their club and country.The lad will play for a top club I guarantee it.

On Mount I'm on about the things you were saying when he first broke into the Chelsea team,it's easy to say now he is a talented player but at the time you were suggesting it was his relationship with Lampard that was getting him into the Chelsea side and at the time you were also critical of his inclusion in the England set up.

On the 7 million, I'm on about Forest sticking to their 7 million valuation, they obviously felt he had the potential to push on,they needed books balancing after bringing in high cost foreign players.In all fairness the forest staff would know a lot more than you or I.Mick Rathbone for example said it was his opinion Brererton had the potential to be a £30 million pound player.

And again you are telling me what I have or haven't heard at the ground.Iv told you this before I heard the moans ,groans and abuse thrown at Brererton with my own two ears.

We had people on here claiming his career would end up in the lower leagues for Christ sake.

His improvement since the covid break has been vast.Last season , certainly pre injury he was one of our better players and has now added goals to his game.

Moans and groans are occasional, natural shows of frustration that you will find at every single football ground, up and down the country, and have nothing to do with the questioning support. A footballer should be able to have the mental strength to deal with occasional moans and groans as a direct consequence of poor performance, which based on Brereton in recent months, he very much could. It is unrealistic to expect a totally sanitised environment free of natural human emotion. Abuse is a whole different ball game, and something I personally have never witnessed, what have you seen that you would describe as abuse?

What people predict on here is again nothing to do with support, and he was hopeless for 2 years. What he is doing now couldn't realistically have been anticipated and constructively predicted so soon after those performances. But anyone who predicted things like that are merely wrong, their prediction hasn't come to fruition, and contrary to popular belief, I am sure that they will be happy to see him doing so well.

[islander200]

9 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Moans and groans are occasional, natural shows of frustration that you will find at every single football ground, up and down the country, and have nothing to do with the questioning support. A footballer should be able to have the mental strength to deal with occasional moans and groans as a direct consequence of poor performance, which based on Brereton in recent months, he very much could. It is unrealistic to expect a totally sanitised environment free of natural human emotion. Abuse is a whole different ball game, and something I personally have never witnessed, what have you seen that you would describe as abuse?

What people predict on here is again nothing to do with support, and he was hopeless for 2 years. What he is doing now couldn't realistically have been anticipated and constructively predicted so soon after those performances. But anyone who predicted things like that are merely wrong, their prediction hasn't come to fruition, and contrary to popular belief, I am sure that they will be happy to see him doing so well.

His second appearance for rovers the guy behind me stood up before Brererton had even kicked a ball screaming obscenitys at him.Calling him useless etc when it was his second game ffs.Iv also heard/seen it at other games.Brererton did get it from day one largely due to the fee granted but the fee had nothing to do with Brererton.

Ben Brererton will play in the Premier League or another top league if he moves abroad and id be willing to take bets he will do more than Jordan Rhodes did when he got his oppurtunity in the top division.

My point with you is you never look how a player can develop.Young players need oppurtunitys to grow into the side and become more comfortable at this level.They will have poor games but it's not like we are challenging for promotion is it, in any of the previous seasons.

The more Brererton played(starts) the improvement have come.Buckley has been a lot better this season now he is getting regular starts 

[arbitro]

5 minutes ago, islander200 said:

His second appearance for rovers the guy behind me stood up before Brererton had even kicked a ball screaming obscenitys at him.Calling him useless etc when it was his second game ffs.Iv also heard/seen it at other games.Brererton did get it from day one largely due to the fee granted but the fee had nothing to do with Brererton.

Ben Brererton will play in the Premier League or another top league if he moves abroad and id be willing to take bets he will do more than Jordan Rhodes did when he got his oppurtunity in the top division.

My point with you is you never look how a player can develop.Young players need oppurtunitys to grow into the side and become more comfortable at this level.They will have poor games but it's not like we are challenging for promotion is it, in any of the previous seasons.

The more Brererton played(starts) the improvement have come.Buckley has been a lot better this season now he is getting regular starts 

But one bloke isn't representative of the vast majority. There has been criticism of Brereton mainly written but very little that has been audible at any ground. He was banished to the under 23's not too long ago because he was poor. I'm delighted for him and happy to admit I was wrong about him.

[roversfan99]

6 minutes ago, islander200 said:

His second appearance for rovers the guy behind me stood up before Brererton had even kicked a ball screaming obscenitys at him.Calling him useless etc when it was his second game ffs.Iv also heard/seen it at other games.Brererton did get it from day one largely due to the fee granted but the fee had nothing to do with Brererton.

Ben Brererton will play in the Premier League or another top league if he moves abroad and id be willing to take bets he will do more than Jordan Rhodes did when he got his oppurtunity in the top division.

My point with you is you never look how a player can develop.Young players need oppurtunitys to grow into the side and become more comfortable at this level.They will have poor games but it's not like we are challenging for promotion is it, in any of the previous seasons.

The more Brererton played(starts) the improvement have come.Buckley has been a lot better this season now he is getting regular starts 

So one solitary, presumably pissed up knobhead shouting a few things at him? An idiot who no right minded person would condone the behaviour of, but hardly a witch hunt. In the main, he has been supported at games, would you not agree?

He may well play in the top league, but as I said, I don't think judging him as an individual based on his first 2 years, that where he is at the moment and how regular the goals are coming would have been the case so soon.

Regarding young players, of course they should be allowed game time, but they should only be selected if they warrant it on an individual basis in the first place, in the first 2 years for example Brereton was not showing flashes to warrant more game time. His development has been fairly sudden on the pitch, and I think is down to a number of reasons.

We aren't challenging for promotion no but results still matter, we are 11 games in. Results do matter still and are more important than anything else, whether that be player development. Expecting a totally sanitised environment in which no one ever shows frustration and in which every young player is played regularly regardless of performance with development prioritised over results (I know you haven't said that, just a point I making separately) is unrealistic and will never happen, nor should it. Whether we are aiming to sneak into the play offs or even to fend off relegation which could happen if results nosedive, results are the most important thing.

[islander200]

7 minutes ago, arbitro said:

But one bloke isn't representative of the vast majority. There has been criticism of Brereton mainly written but very little that has been audible at any ground. He was banished to the under 23's not too long ago because he was poor. I'm delighted for him and happy to admit I was wrong about him.

IV never said it was the vast majority.Im countering " he never gets it at the ground" and some other poster said earlier he seem Brererton crying at the Birmingham match.Why would said poster make that up?He is saying what he has seen,yet others who didn't see it are saying he is lieing?

I'm not doubting Brererton was poor, but he was highly rated within the game. when he was brought in here.People involved in the game felt he had great potential and in all fairness they would know a lot more than me, you or anyone on here with seeing him a lot more than us.

He was poor but mismanaged also, if he was a project signing and the manager felt he wasn't up to it in the early days then he should have spoken to the supporters,explained that Brererton wasn't ready yet and Brererton should have been sent on loan.

He was never getting any better getting the 15,10,5 minutes off the bench when the team was usually up against it and his confidence looked shattered.

When the manager gave him an extended run he started to grow into that role left of a 3 Pre Chile and has looked a far better player for it 

[islander200]

20 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

So one solitary, presumably pissed up knobhead shouting a few things at him? An idiot who no right minded person would condone the behaviour of, but hardly a witch hunt. In the main, he has been supported at games, would you not agree?

He may well play in the top league, but as I said, I don't think judging him as an individual based on his first 2 years, that where he is at the moment and how regular the goals are coming would have been the case so soon.

Regarding young players, of course they should be allowed game time, but they should only be selected if they warrant it on an individual basis in the first place, in the first 2 years for example Brereton was not showing flashes to warrant more game time. His development has been fairly sudden on the pitch, and I think is down to a number of reasons.

We aren't challenging for promotion no but results still matter, we are 11 games in. Results do matter still and are more important than anything else, whether that be player development. Expecting a totally sanitised environment in which no one ever shows frustration and in which every young player is played regularly regardless of performance with development prioritised over results (I know you haven't said that, just a point I making separately) is unrealistic and will never happen, nor should it. Whether we are aiming to sneak into the play offs or even to fend off relegation which could happen if results nosedive, results are the most important thing.

We will not get relegated there are far worse teams than us in this division even when we ain't at full strength.

So I take it you were in agreement with Mowbray tail end of last season playing the same faces that wouldn't even be here this year rather than giving some of the youngsters an extended spell in the side?

Players need consistent spells in the side.Does absolutely nothing for the likes or Buckley or any other young player having one start in ten.

Dolan and Buckley should have been starters last 8 or so games and others like Pike should have been given oppurtunitys .

We clearly weren't going to have much of a budget this summer something the manager would have known.

It will be mid table or top end  bottom half again this year .

[DE.]

14 minutes ago, islander200 said:

IV never said it was the vast majority.Im countering " he never gets it at the ground" and some other poster said earlier he seem Brererton crying at the Birmingham match.Why would said poster make that up?He is saying what he has seen,yet others who didn't see it are saying he is lieing?

Because there's no proof anywhere that it's true. People lie for all sorts of reasons, especially if it helps an argument they're making. 

Brereton coming off to muttered frustration in the crowd and looking irritated afterwards became Brereton being hounded off the pitch by bloodthirsty Rovers fans and reduced to tears on the bench. Don't you think if the latter were true it would have been reported somewhere, or Mowbray would have been asked about it after the match? It's a bullshit rumour made up on twitter by the usual supporters who for whatever reason love causing conflict within the fanbase. 

[Mattyblue]

Always amazes me how folk can’t seem to separate one or a dozen loudmouth cretins from a crowd of thousands and will therefore paint ‘Rovers fans’ as ‘negative’ or ‘on their back’ or ‘abusive’…

or even worse equate social media trolls (many of whom won’t be able to find Ewood on a map) with match going supporters.

[arbitro]

21 minutes ago, islander200 said:

IV never said it was the vast majority.Im countering " he never gets it at the ground" and some other poster said earlier he seem Brererton crying at the Birmingham match.Why would said poster make that up?He is saying what he has seen,yet others who didn't see it are saying he is lieing?

I'm not doubting Brererton was poor, but he was highly rated within the game. when he was brought in here.People involved in the game felt he had great potential and in all fairness they would know a lot more than me, you or anyone on here with seeing him a lot more than us.

He was poor but mismanaged also, if he was a project signing and the manager felt he wasn't up to it in the early days then he should have spoken to the supporters,explained that Brererton wasn't ready yet and Brererton should have been sent on loan.

He was never getting any better getting the 15,10,5 minutes off the bench when the team was usually up against it and his confidence looked shattered.

When the manager gave him an extended run he started to grow into that role left of a 3 Pre Chile and has looked a far better player for it 

It's a myth that he was crying. He simply had his head in his hands which was probably a reaction to an abject performance. The myth is perpetuated by some who use it as a weapon against anybody who was critical of him.

[tomphil]

Twitter turned that into something it wasn't within seconds of the whistle. I saw it unfold with my own eyes and know who started it. Then of course dozens offended on everybody's behalf jumped on it. Was bizarre to see it almost go viral but no surprise in that swamp.

Apparently Brereton was frustrated at himself and angry at something else going on during the game on the pitch.

It was put too bed pretty quickly by closer sources, that he wasn't bawling because Bert and Ernie from Blackburn squealed dogs abuse from the back of the stand a hundred  yards away.

The whole lot got grumbled at that day.

[islander200]

50 minutes ago, DE. said:

Because there's no proof anywhere that it's true. People lie for all sorts of reasons, especially if it helps an argument they're making. 

Brereton coming off to muttered frustration in the crowd and looking irritated afterwards became Brereton being hounded off the pitch by bloodthirsty Rovers fans and reduced to tears on the bench. Don't you think if the latter were true it would have been reported somewhere, or Mowbray would have been asked about it after the match? It's a bullshit rumour made up on twitter by the usual supporters who for whatever reason love causing conflict within the fanbase. 

IL let the fella who said it earlier on here that he seen it himself respond to this.