Ben Brereton Diaz

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, islander200 said:

We will not get relegated there are far worse teams than us in this division even when we ain't at full strength.

So I take it you were in agreement with Mowbray tail end of last season playing the same faces that wouldn't even be here this year rather than giving some of the youngsters an extended spell in the side?

Players need consistent spells in the side.Does absolutely nothing for the likes or Buckley or any other young player having one start in ten.

Dolan and Buckley should have been starters last 8 or so games and others like Pike should have been given oppurtunitys .

We clearly weren't going to have much of a budget this summer something the manager would have known.

It will be mid table or top end  bottom half again this year .

You are comparing 2 totally different situations. There were a fair few games towards the end of the season where an inability to make the top 6 nor be relegated were either mathematically confirmed or at least confirmed beyond reasonable doubt, at which point I was very critical of Mowbray for playing players who wouldn't be here this season, I agree with that point made.

We are 11 games into a season now though, so now the sole focus should be on putting out the best side to win each game. Only if and when the above scenario plays out again should we again then solely focus on the following season. 

Fans don't pay £400 per season or £30 a game to watch development football, with the primary purpose being long term development, and indeed I think that if we did start choosing based solely on next season and beyond, then we would soon become embroiled at the bottom.

Out of interest, with Nyambe, Lenihan, Rothwell and numerous others out of contract at the end of the season and unlikely to renew, would they be jettisoned now if you was manager in favour of players who are contracted into next season?

[islander200]

24 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

You are comparing 2 totally different situations. There were a fair few games towards the end of the season where an inability to make the top 6 nor be relegated were either mathematically confirmed or at least confirmed beyond reasonable doubt, at which point I was very critical of Mowbray for playing players who wouldn't be here this season, I agree with that point made.

We are 11 games into a season now though, so now the sole focus should be on putting out the best side to win each game. Only if and when the above scenario plays out again should we again then solely focus on the following season. 

Fans don't pay £400 per season or £30 a game to watch development football, with the primary purpose being long term development, and indeed I think that if we did start choosing based solely on next season and beyond, then we would soon become embroiled at the bottom.

Out of interest, with Nyambe, Lenihan, Rothwell and numerous others out of contract at the end of the season and unlikely to renew, would they be jettisoned now if you was manager in favour of players who are contracted into next season?

The players im on about are first teamers now.Brererton won't be dropped 

And in my opinion Buckley shouldn't be dropped either, agreed he has to start stamping his authority on games more but for me he is worth persevering with because the talent is undoubtedly there.

I think the fans would rather lose games with our own contracted players playing rather than lose them with loan players.

I'm not against the loan market but I don't think the manager has used it well at all this summer.Poveda, Khedra and Dolan all similar types.Clarkson again seems highly rated at Liverpool but was he what we need?No too similar in stature and style to Buckley a more physical midfielder should have been targeted.

The players we have brought in as yet do not look any better than our own.

The players you mention are key players so no I wouldn't drop them.Still hopeful Lenihen will stick around, think the ship has sailed with the other two so if an acceptable offer comes in for either in January then I would look at it 

I 100% do not think we will go down this season so I would rather we planned long term rather than short term and if we are going to be even more reliant on the academy then I would be giving our young players more opportunities.

 

Edited October 12, 2021 by islander200

[JohnGo]

2 hours ago, DE. said:

Because there's no proof anywhere that it's true. People lie for all sorts of reasons, especially if it helps an argument they're making. 

Brereton coming off to muttered frustration in the crowd and looking irritated afterwards became Brereton being hounded off the pitch by bloodthirsty Rovers fans and reduced to tears on the bench. Don't you think if the latter were true it would have been reported somewhere, or Mowbray would have been asked about it after the match? It's a bullshit rumour made up on twitter by the usual supporters who for whatever reason love causing conflict within the fanbase. 

You only accept a post when it suits you point of view. Everyone else is exaggerating/lying. Accept what people have seen, heard rather than dismiss their views.

[DE.]

2 minutes ago, JohnGo said:

You only accept a post when it suits you point of view. Everyone else is exaggerating/lying. Accept what people have seen, heard rather than dismiss their views.

I'm weird in that I generally like to see proof of something before I believe what a random stranger on a forum says. Odd behaviour, I know! But you obviously know Bad Boy well to be able to vouch for him, so fair enough. I do find it odd that Brereton coming off the pitch in tears from the abuse of Rovers fans was never reported, never spoken about by the club and never mentioned beyond Twitter, but hey, somebody on a forum says it happened so it must be true. 

[yankfan]

Criminal this reporting of sell on clauses on Diaz. How are we paying 6 million quid for unproven youth and also agreeing to add ons?  Has no one at Brockhall got a clue?  We magically find club options when we think players are out of contract but then sometimes they’re not really in there. I’m baffled by all of this, can someone please explain. 

[PotterLog]

On 11/10/2021 at 14:31, rigger said:

You could say the same about Scotland, in relation to Europe

 

Don't know if you're serious here but that's a ridiculous comparison, there's absolutely no parallel there at all

[rigger]

33 minutes ago, PotterLog said:

 

Don't know if you're serious here but that's a ridiculous comparison, there's absolutely no parallel there at all

Yes there is. Both are poor football teams on a continent that has a couple of very good teams. Because they are on the same continent as some good teams does not automatically make them good teams. If you cannot see that comparison that is not my fault. Or are you saying that the present Chile side is a good one ? 

[PotterLog]

21 minutes ago, rigger said:

Yes there is. Both are poor football teams on a continent that has a couple of very good teams. Because they are on the same continent as some good teams does not automatically make them good teams. If you cannot see that comparison that is not my fault. Or are you saying that the present Chile side is a good one ? 

 

The point was that the standard across all S. American teams is very high, which is generally true - much more so than Europe. For a start there are about 50 teams in Europe of wildly varying quality, picking one poor-ish one and saying it's the same thing makes no sense.

I wouldn't call Chile a "good" side at the moment but there's no comparison with Scotland - and that's considering Scotland are relatively good at the moment. They've got nothing like the quality of Chile.

 

Edited October 12, 2021 by PotterLog

[Wheelton Blue]

There's a reason why Chile are hauling an English second division player half way round the world.

My guess is that it's because they aren't very good.

[roversfan99]

2 hours ago, islander200 said:

The players im on about are first teamers now.Brererton won't be dropped 

And in my opinion Buckley shouldn't be dropped either, agreed he has to start stamping his authority on games more but for me he is worth persevering with because the talent is undoubtedly there.

I think the fans would rather lose games with our own contracted players playing rather than lose them with loan players.

I'm not against the loan market but I don't think the manager has used it well at all this summer.Poveda, Khedra and Dolan all similar types.Clarkson again seems highly rated at Liverpool but was he what we need?No too similar in stature and style to Buckley a more physical midfielder should have been targeted.

The players we have brought in as yet do not look any better than our own.

The players you mention are key players so no I wouldn't drop them.Still hopeful Lenihen will stick around, think the ship has sailed with the other two so if an acceptable offer comes in for either in January then I would look at it 

I 100% do not think we will go down this season so I would rather we planned long term rather than short term and if we are going to be even more reliant on the academy then I would be giving our young players more opportunities.

 

Out of interest, in our current position only 11 games in, if there were 2 players, one slightly better being a loanee, would you choose the alternative who is slightly worse?

I hate seeing Rovers lose and never take any consolation from the number of players on certain types of contracts when we do. Especially so early into a season, the type of contracts that players are on shouldn't come remotely into team selection or substitute choices, not at all and that is my point. The overall planning (well at most clubs they have this) should of course try and include getting assets on long term details, the squad should have a core of those with some experience and if necessary loanees around that, but the manager shouldn't be selecting based on contracts.

The quality of the loanees is a totally different point and again I agree with you. Poveda and Clarkson look particularly poor, but I would not select them solely because they don't look very good rather than because they are on loan.

[rigger]

5 minutes ago, PotterLog said:

 

The point was that the standard across all S. American teams is very high, which is generally true - much more so than Europe. For a start there are about 50 teams in Europe of wildly varying quality, picking one poor-ish one and saying it's the same thing makes no sense.

I wouldn't call Chile a "good" side at the moment but there's no comparison with Scotland - and that's considering Scotland are relatively good at the moment. They've got nothing like the quality of Chile.

 

Adios.

[PotterLog]

11 minutes ago, Wheelton Blue said:

There's a reason why Chile are hauling an English second division player half way round the world.

My guess is that it's because they aren't very good.

You're half right, they're certainly not very good compared to a few years ago, but as well as the English second division player they're also still "hauling" players from all the top European leagues as well as Brazil, Mexico etc. In fact I'd guess BBD is the only non-top flight player in the squad. They're still a strong international side in the grand scheme of things.

Edited October 12, 2021 by PotterLog

[bluebruce]

19 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Out of interest, in our current position only 11 games in, if there were 2 players, one slightly better being a loanee, would you choose the alternative who is slightly worse?

I hate seeing Rovers lose and never take any consolation from the number of players on certain types of contracts when we do. Especially so early into a season, the type of contracts that players are on shouldn't come remotely into team selection or substitute choices, not at all and that is my point. The overall planning (well at most clubs they have this) should of course try and include getting assets on long term details, the squad should have a core of those with some experience and if necessary loanees around that, but the manager shouldn't be selecting based on contracts.

The quality of the loanees is a totally different point and again I agree with you. Poveda and Clarkson look particularly poor, but I would not select them solely because they don't look very good rather than because they are on loan.

Would you agree there are exceptions to this? When we had the dead rubbers at the end of last season it was ridiculous we kept playing all the loans and other players definitely leaving, instead of blooding for the next season and beyond.

[roversfan99]

6 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

Would you agree there are exceptions to this? When we had the dead rubbers at the end of last season it was ridiculous we kept playing all the loans and other players definitely leaving, instead of blooding for the next season and beyond.

100%, I said earlier that it is a different ball game comparing 11 games into a season and near the end of one when top 6/relegation both are impossible, either mathematically or beyond reasonable doubt. I criticised Mowbray last season for the reasons you mentioned.

[islander200]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Out of interest, in our current position only 11 games in, if there were 2 players, one slightly better being a loanee, would you choose the alternative who is slightly worse?

I hate seeing Rovers lose and never take any consolation from the number of players on certain types of contracts when we do. Especially so early into a season, the type of contracts that players are on shouldn't come remotely into team selection or substitute choices, not at all and that is my point. The overall planning (well at most clubs they have this) should of course try and include getting assets on long term details, the squad should have a core of those with some experience and if necessary loanees around that, but the manager shouldn't be selecting based on contracts.

The quality of the loanees is a totally different point and again I agree with you. Poveda and Clarkson look particularly poor, but I would not select them solely because they don't look very good rather than because they are on loan.

It depends on the circumstances.If a loan player is undoubtedly better than our own and if that player being selected meant we had a better chance of putting points on the board then I would select the loan player.

At the moment though I wouldn't be favouring any of the loan players over our own with the exception of maybe Khedra in place of Gallagher.

Like Harwood Bellis and Elliot were top notch ,kids you could see instantly were comfortable at this level and they would contribute more than our own.

Foolishly on deadline day last summer I believed we had put a squad together that could at the very least challenge for the top 6 throughout the season but in reality we were never in the mix, Douglas was awful as was Trybull.Trybull did nothing apart from taking minutes away from our own young players.

I don't think every single under 23 will make it and was an advocate of us bringing in loans due to depth of the squad but are this crop of loans going to guarantee more points on the board than our own I don't think they are.

I take your points on board but for me personally I have written this season off .I don't think we will go down due to the number of poor sides in the division and I don't think any chance of promotion either.Plus I want a clean sweep in the summer, a new management team and someone brought in to replace Waggott. 

Of course I want to see us win  every week but in reality no matter if It is Khedra or Dolan ,Poveda or Butterworth, Clarkson or Buckley, we will win some and lose some.

I think the likes of Buckley ,Dolan , Butterworth(would loan him out to play every week if we sign a forward in January),Carter , Wharton and Rankin Costello when he is fit should be seeing plenty of minutes this season.We need to know if they can take us forward 

IL give a shout out to Carter he looked completely out of his depth when he was first brought in, the loan to Burton worked wonders and if Costello can stay fit and they can find a position going forward I think he will be an asset 

My main argument to you is you seem to suggest everytime a Buckley or Dolan have a bad game they should be dropped the game after.I don't agree with that like ,if their form continues being poor then that's a different conversation but I think they have shown enough to not have to be dropped every single time there performance drops as that happens with nearly everyone in our squad 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 12, 2021 by islander200

[bluebruce]

Not long ago I was saying I feared we had let Forest put a sell on clause in the deal and now rumours suggest this is indeed the case.

I can only hope we weren't insane enough to make it 40% again, or anything like it.

[islander200]

5 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

Not long ago I was saying I feared we had let Forest put a sell on clause in the deal and now rumours suggest this is indeed the case.

I can only hope we weren't insane enough to make it 40% again, or anything like it.

Most deals do have sell on clauses these days to be fair but like you say hopefully not as high as 40%

[JohnGo]

2 hours ago, DE. said:

I'm weird in that I generally like to see proof of something before I believe what a random stranger on a forum says. Odd behaviour, I know! But you obviously know Bad Boy well to be able to vouch for him, so fair enough. I do find it odd that Brereton coming off the pitch in tears from the abuse of Rovers fans was never reported, never spoken about by the club and never mentioned beyond Twitter, but hey, somebody on a forum says it happened so it must be true. 

What proof do you need, a video, written affidavit. It would be interesting to know the burden of proof you accept for your points of view, as I don’t believe one word you write.

[K-Hod]

4 minutes ago, JohnGo said:

What proof do you need, a video, written affidavit. It would be interesting to know the burden of proof you accept for your points of view, as I don’t believe one word you write.

Maybe more than one bloke on the internet might be a start?

If the entire away end had ratified that Brereton was in tears, because of abuse from the crowd, then it would be believable. But, it clearly wasn’t like that.

Don’t you reckon that if it had happened like that, the LT and club would have mentioned it a fair bit?

[DE.]

12 minutes ago, JohnGo said:

What proof do you need, a video, written affidavit. It would be interesting to know the burden of proof you accept for your points of view, as I don’t believe one word you write.

When it comes to accusing our own fans of reducing one of our own players to tears you're damn right I want more evidence. The fact you don't speaks volumes. 

[LDRover]

16 minutes ago, DE. said:

When it comes to accusing our own fans of reducing one of our own players to tears you're damn right I want more evidence. The fact you don't speaks volumes. 

And the fact the poster who initially brought it up hasn't been back on to present more proof does so even more.

[islander200]

1 hour ago, DE. said:

When it comes to accusing our own fans of reducing one of our own players to tears you're damn right I want more evidence. The fact you don't speaks volumes. 

Mate let's not pretend our fans are different to many others, like other clubs we have idiots who do stupid things.The Dwight Yorke incident being a prime example.

If my posts have come across that I'm saying it's a large portion of the crowd who were on his back then apologies but when getting beat on a cold Tuesday evening and Brerertons number comes up the groans from the minority  and the utter rubbish being spouted could be heard.

Maybe I'm a sensitive soul or maybe I'm intelligent enough to separate the footballer from the man or should I say kid as he was only 19.The move came out of the blue for him ,leaving his mates in forest not long after being hailed as the next big thing at the club.His confidence was clearly shattered ,he was being mismanaged.He had played for Forest in the division, Warburton started him every week who was wanted by some on here to be our manager 

I am not arguing that he was poor but the manager did not help matters and SOME fans were on his back from day one due to the fee and that amount of money being spent on him

On the Birmingham incident I don't know either way just find it odd that someone would say they saw it happen 

[DE.]

1 minute ago, islander200 said:

Mate let's not pretend our fans are different to many others, like other clubs we have idiots who do stupid things.The Dwight Yorke incident being a prime example.

If my posts have come across that I'm saying it's a large portion of the crowd who were on his back then apologies but when getting beat on a cold Tuesday evening and Brerertons number comes up the groans from the minority  and the utter rubbish being spouted could be heard.

Maybe I'm a sensitive soul or maybe I'm intelligent enough to separate the footballer from the man or should I say kid as he was only 19.The move came out of the blue for him ,leaving his mates in forest not long after being hailed as the next big thing at the club.His confidence was clearly shattered ,he was being mismanaged.He had played for Forest in the division, Warburton started him every week who was wanted by some on here to be our manager 

I am not arguing that he was poor but the manager did not help matters and SOME fans were on his back from day one due to the fee and that amount of money being spent on him

On the Birmingham incident I don't know either way just find it odd that someone would say they saw it happen 

I don't disagree with you, there will always be a contingent of fans who do stupid things like boo our own players and sing racist songs - although fortunately the latter doesn't happen as often as it used to. I'm sure there were some comments aimed at BB as he came off, but that's football. Even at 19 the lad already had a lot of experience in the men's game and I'm sure he'd hardened up enough to ignore that. Frankly he wouldn't be in the position he's in now if he was that weak. He's obviously got thick skin and determination. 

What bothers me is a rumour with no foundation being used to smear our fanbase, spread by our own fans. Maybe Bad Boy did go to the game, and maybe that is how he remembers it, but I don't believe that is actually what happened. There's no way he walked off the pitch in tears, and I highly doubt he was crying on the bench either. You surely have to accept if either of those things had happened it would have been reported on? There is no way media outlets would ignore a player being abused to the point where he was crying. There's no way Mowbray wouldn't have been asked about it. I just don't buy it as a realistic scenario. 

[Hasta]

15 hours ago, islander200 said:

 

If my posts have come across that I'm saying it's a large portion of the crowd who were on his back then apologies but when getting beat on a cold Tuesday evening and Brerertons number comes up the groans from the minority  and the utter rubbish being spouted could be heard.

 

I am not arguing that he was poor but the manager did not help matters and SOME fans were on his back from day one due to the fee and that amount of money being spent on him

On the Birmingham incident I don't know either way just find it odd that someone would say they saw it happen 

Well I don't know where you sit but if Brereton was coming on generally from the Blackburn End he always got support. I never heard 'groans' from the crowd as a group. Audibly, the Rovers crowd have always been 100% behind Brereton at games.

What some people don't like is the fact that individual fans, whether on social media, on here, in the pub or even in the ground can have a negative view of one of their players - but that has always happened here and at all other clubs. You go on Facebook and say you think Brereton is a waste of space and you will get people angrily and bluntly stating that Rovers fans shouldn't hold that opinion about one of their own players (even though that's all it is - an opinion). And after a bad performance and a defeat where Brereton has been poor, I can imagine someone making the Birmingham story up as a way of deflecting blame onto the people they've spent all week arguing with on Facebook. As others have said, nobody could corroborate the story.

 

Edited October 13, 2021 by Hasta

[Bigdoggsteel]

23 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

At the end of the day the object of the exercise in signing players is to get us out of this division. Anything else is a waste of time and money. Both of those things are now in short supply. We’re no longer  a club that can invest big money in “ project “ signings.

I agree we need instant input,but if Brereton leaves for a big fee, it will vindicate the move in many ways 

I don't think we could ever invest big money in project signings. However this one appears to have worked out ,eventually, in many ways. Be good if he signed a new deal of course....

Edited October 13, 2021 by Bigdoggsteel