Ben Brereton Diaz

[SBlue]

On 12/10/2021 at 13:49, K-Hod said:

I mean, so did I, but £7 Million quid for us is a lot, especially if someone isn’t going into the first team immediately and making a real difference.

If he'd gone into the first team, he may have done.

[K-Hod]

42 minutes ago, S8 & Blue said:

If he'd gone into the first team, he may have done.

Yet when he did, he mostly looked appalling…..Glad he’s turned it around, of course! 

[Leonard Venkhater]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I agree we need instant input,but if Brereton leaves for a big fee, it will vindicate the move in many ways 

I don't think we could ever invest big money in project signings. However this one appears to have worked out ,eventually, in many ways. Be good if he signed a new deal of course....

Vindicate the move? Therein lies the problem for me.

In the last nine years, do we think a) players ever been signed to support the current( at the time) team in a genuine push for promotion?....or b)have they been signed merely for future profit?..( while the actual team bobs around between mid to bottom end of the league table......with a series of mediocre/inexperienced managers)

[roversfan99]

I don't have a problem with signing players with the primary intention of selling them on.

The problem comes back to the owners, it needs to be consistently done, effectively done and repeatedly done. You sell one, you rein

Have we really sold anyone using this process bar Armstrong? It is so inconsistent, regularly spending totally hits the buffers with no reinvestment, like when Armstrong went, and like when Cairney, Gestede etc were sold, often incompetence takes us into embargos too. It is never thought out properly. Those players were also sold cheap due to being under pressure to sell. You then start signing frees and loans and the whole process goes back 5 steps.

[chaddyrovers]

9 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I don't have a problem with signing players with the primary intention of selling them on.

The problem comes back to the owners, it needs to be consistently done, effectively done and repeatedly done. You sell one, you rein

Have we really sold anyone using this process bar Armstrong? It is so inconsistent, regularly spending totally hits the buffers with no reinvestment, like when Armstrong went, and like when Cairney, Gestede etc were sold, often incompetence takes us into embargos too. It is never thought out properly. Those players were also sold cheap due to being under pressure to sell. You then start signing frees and loans and the whole process goes back 5 steps.

How was Gestede sold cheap please? Do you not think 6 million pounds was a good price? 

[bluebruce]

3 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

How was Gestede sold cheap please? Do you not think 6 million pounds was a good price? 

No, regardless of how Rudy's career went afterwards, we should have been getting about 8 million plus for him at the time.

[chaddyrovers]

6 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

No, regardless of how Rudy's career went afterwards, we should have been getting about 8 million plus for him at the time.

Who were paying those prices for him? 

We have a bid of 6 million pounds from Villa that summer and that was it. Plus Rudy wanted out for 6 months prior to his move there

Bowyer told the fans who attended that fans meeting this piece of information.  Other BRFCS posters were also there like @Tom, @PeteJD13and @J*B

Edited October 13, 2021 by chaddyrovers

[roversfan99]

21 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

How was Gestede sold cheap please? Do you not think 6 million pounds was a good price? 

Splitting hairs. Point was that the overall Venkys tenure has been consistently lacking, this summer was at least the second in which an asset or assets were sold with zilch reinvested in a replacement. No consistency. Venkys out.

[bluebruce]

24 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Who were paying those prices for him? 

We have a bid of 6 million pounds from Villa that summer and that was it. Plus Rudy wanted out for 6 months prior to his move there

Bowyer told the fans who attended that fans meeting this piece of information.  Other BRFCS posters were also there like @Tom, @PeteJD13and @J*B

We will never know if anyone would have paid that price, that summer or later, because we accepted the 6 million.

I don't care whether players want to leave, and I don't care if 6 million was the most Villa wanted to pay.

[chaddyrovers]

10 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Splitting hairs. Point was that the overall Venkys tenure has been consistently lacking, this summer was at least the second in which an asset or assets were sold with zilch reinvested in a replacement. No consistency. Venkys out.

We have already explained to you about FFP and how close to breaking it. Plus we had Maja coming in as Armstrong replacement. 

What other assets were sold and not replace? If you mean the Summer when we sold Gestede and Cairney? We couldnt as we were in embargo mode

[chaddyrovers]

2 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

We will never know if anyone would have paid that price, that summer or later, because we accepted the 6 million.

I don't care whether players want to leave, and I don't care if 6 million was the most Villa wanted to pay.

It was the only bid we got for him that summer. No other clubs bidded for him. 

[roversfan99]

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

We have already explained to you about FFP and how close to breaking it. Plus we had Maja coming in as Armstrong replacement. 

What other assets were sold and not replace? If you mean the Summer when we sold Gestede and Cairney? We couldnt as we were in embargo mode

The point I was making was that the way we have operated in the last 10 years has not been the most efficient way of working and have lacked a plan. Embargoes are not a necessity, they are a symptom of a poorly run club. It should be sell players, reinvest a chunk, keep the rest, continue consistently. Not splurge loads on big earners, then spend loads paying them up, then spending on cheaper players, holding on to every single one until we hit embargo, couple of years of struggle and no reinvestment, then occasional splurges on big assets, hold on until the last year, then finally sell one, then reinvest nothing again. Venkys out.

Maja was a loan and I dont care about could haves and should haves. Is he here, no.

[bluebruce]

6 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

It was the only bid we got for him that summer. No other clubs bidded for him. 

I already told you, I don't care about that. Nobody else bids higher, he stays. Then he has to either suck it up and get on with it - a continuation of form would have seen somebody willing to part with 8 - or risks his career.

If it was the only bid, we accepted the first bid that came along, which again shows that we have no idea what Villa or anybody else would have paid. We were soft touches, just like with Cairney and Raya.

[Adam C]

15 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

I already told you, I don't care about that. Nobody else bids higher, he stays. Then he has to either suck it up and get on with it - a continuation of form would have seen somebody willing to part with 8 - or risks his career.

If it was the only bid, we accepted the first bid that came along, which again shows that we have no idea what Villa or anybody else would have paid. We were soft touches, just like with Cairney and Raya.

We did pretty well on Rudy. Signed for £200k, sold for £6m a couple of seasons later. He did nothing after leaving us as well so I think we got a very good price for him which, as Chaddy says, was the best offer in for a player who wanted out. 

[islander200]

46 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

We will never know if anyone would have paid that price, that summer or later, because we accepted the 6 million.

I don't care whether players want to leave, and I don't care if 6 million was the most Villa wanted to pay.

He was already sulking that we were taking our time selling him.We undersold Raya and Cairney agreed but imo we got a fair price for Gestede.Prior to coming here he had done nothing, we paid 200k ,got decent service from him and sold for a decent price imo.

Keeping him was never going to work out.

[bluebruce]

21 minutes ago, The Hypnotic said:

We did pretty well on Rudy. Signed for £200k, sold for £6m a couple of seasons later. He did nothing after leaving us as well so I think we got a very good price for him which, as Chaddy says, was the best offer in for a player who wanted out. 

Absolutely signing him was a very good deal for us. We got a class player for a while and a big profit, not disputing that at all. And I know he went on to sod all but that's hindsight. I'm saying at the time I feel we should have held out for more. Those other two factors don't affect that.

4 minutes ago, islander200 said:

He was already sulking that we were taking our time selling him.We undersold Raya and Cairney agreed but imo we got a fair price for Gestede.Prior to coming here he had done nothing, we paid 200k ,got decent service from him and sold for a decent price imo.

Keeping him was never going to work out.

Not sure how many times I need to say it but I don't give a solitary shit whether he liked it, whether he sulked, etc. Not. Interested. He wouldn't be the first nor the last player to have been denied a move they wanted. As I already said, he sucks it up and gets on with it so big clubs are still interested, or he sabotages his career. Few choose the latter.

If we are going down the hindsight route, it's not like we replaced him with our 6 million anyway. Selling him just lost us a class striker and encouraged other players to want out.

[islander200]

1 hour ago, bluebruce said:

Absolutely signing him was a very good deal for us. We got a class player for a while and a big profit, not disputing that at all. And I know he went on to sod all but that's hindsight. I'm saying at the time I feel we should have held out for more. Those other two factors don't affect that.

Not sure how many times I need to say it but I don't give a solitary shit whether he liked it, whether he sulked, etc. Not. Interested. He wouldn't be the first nor the last player to have been denied a move they wanted. As I already said, he sucks it up and gets on with it so big clubs are still interested, or he sabotages his career. Few choose the latter.

If we are going down the hindsight route, it's not like we replaced him with our 6 million anyway. Selling him just lost us a class striker and encouraged other players to want out.

I would disagree that he was a "class" striker his career before and after here suggests otherwise.( He was class for us agreed) but iv got my doubts he would have been performing at a similar level if we denied him a move to the Premier League 

A player is worth what someone is willing to pay and for Gestede it was 6 Millon.He had wanted out a while before he was eventually sold.We didn't sell him the minute he told the club he wanted out.

If we were to look into it I'd wager players who have been denied moves when they made it clear they wanted out didn't play at the same standard as they had previous.(plus most players who get their moves when they tell clubs they want out)

Many many pundit and professional in the game agree that it isn't helpful having an unhappy player in the dressing room ,only have to look at the talk when Kane wanted out in the summer.

Edited October 13, 2021 by islander200

[SBlue]

5 hours ago, K-Hod said:

Yet when he did, he mostly looked appalling…..Glad he’s turned it around, of course! 

10-15 minutes here and there aren’t the same as a run of starting games, that would’ve helped him massively imo when he first came in.

[roversfan99]

59 minutes ago, S8 & Blue said:

10-15 minutes here and there aren’t the same as a run of starting games, that would’ve helped him massively imo when he first came in.

But equally you have to show enough to warrant more game time, and that you deserve regular starts. He certainly failed to do that.

[chaddyrovers]

4 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

 

Maja was a loan and I dont care about could haves and should haves. Is he here, no.

@Bbrovers2288has said it loan to buy next season which got us around FFP rules. It was a done deal until his failed medical. Hardly Rovers fault was it. He choose.Rovers over Forest aswell to join aswell. 

Edited October 13, 2021 by chaddyrovers

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

@Bbrovers2288has said it loan to buy next season which got us around FFP rules. It was a done deal until his failed medical. Hardly Rovers fault was it. He choose.Rovers over Forest aswell to join aswell. 

Whether that was an obligation or merely an option to buy is unknown, and the potential to buy itself is merely speculation. And irrelevant because he didnt sign. And a very small matter amidst the overall point of a lack of plan throughout the last 10/11 years.

[Sparks Rover]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

@Bbrovers2288has said it loan to buy next season which got us around FFP rules. It was a done deal until his failed medical. Hardly Rovers fault was it. He choose.Rovers over Forest aswell to join aswell. 

Funny, the forest owners says exactly the same thing 🙄🥱

[LordBaltimore]

Good article from ESPN on Ben, and another from The Sun.

 

https://www.espn.com/soccer/chile-chi/story/4496635/chile-hope-england-born-ben-brereton-diaz-can-salvage-world-cup-hopes

Chile hope England-born Ben Brereton Díaz can salvage World Cup hopes

"The Blackburn striker is supplying exactly what the ageing Chile side have been lacking -- thrust and energy and youth. Seeing that he can thrive at the level has clearly done wonders for the confidence of a player who had previously been struggling to live up to expectations with his club after being transferred from Nottingham Forest for a substantial fee."

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/16346867/stats-england-chile-ben-brereton-diaz/

Stats show Ben Brereton Díaz is a different player after swapping England for Chile and he has "South American Edge"

 

Edited October 14, 2021 by LordBaltimore

[LordBaltimore]

BONUS

Another Chilean commercial starring BBD, this time for Top, which is an underwear & clothing company.  

 

The advert is titled "Ben Brereton's Story".  Top is the brand name but the word "top" in chilean spanish also means "great" or "the best" or "wonderful".  One of many English-language influences on chilean spanish.

 

In the ad,  the narrator says:

"From a young age, 2 things were clear to Ben: that he would have a Top [ie, great] life and a great beard.

"One Christmas he received a gift that would change his life, and they would be inseperable.  Truly inseperable.

"Ben was destined to be Top [the best], not only due to his great talent but also to his super smile.

"One day he received a call from a far away place, where he found his roots [holding crockery/plate, which was his Chilean family's business] and the love of an entire country.

"There is no doubt:  Ben was born to be Top [the best]."

At the end, Ben himself voices "Siéntete cómodo, siéntete Top." Feel comfortable, feel Top [great].

 

Edited October 14, 2021 by LordBaltimore

[Bigdoggsteel]

18 hours ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Vindicate the move? Therein lies the problem for me.

In the last nine years, do we think a) players ever been signed to support the current( at the time) team in a genuine push for promotion?....or b)have they been signed merely for future profit?..( while the actual team bobs around between mid to bottom end of the league table......with a series of mediocre/inexperienced managers)

I would say a lot of signings over the last 9 years fit neither criteria , hence why I said I would take a Brereton style transfer, where he eventually delivers and will command a fee when leaving.