Ben Brereton Diaz

[Leonard Venkhater]

6 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

It's clear Brereton - whether he has potential or not - was a bad buy at this stage when we are in far greater need of players who can make an instant difference to the team such as a big centre back, a good winger and a proper centre forward to help Graham. Unless he suddenly starts to blossom Brereton is a luxury we cannot afford. 

That is my own opinion exactly. A strange buy, in our circumstances.

That said, I was rooting for him to have a good moment to encourage him, as soon as he took the field. I really want him to succeed and I don't buy for one second that anyone wants him to fail...or won't accept him, just because of the price tag.

 

[Oldgregg86]

2 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

It's clear Brereton - whether he has potential or not - was a bad buy at this stage when we are in far greater need of players who can make an instant difference to the team such as a big centre back, a good winger and a proper centre forward to help Graham. Unless he suddenly starts to blossom Brereton is a luxury we cannot afford. 

I was going to write something similar..it would have made far more sense to pad the squad out or add two or three starters this season and then start to add potential and luxury. We should have signed a proper striker, a proper winger, a proper centre back and an experienced back up keeper. Then with a solid foundation add the likes of brereton and players of that ilk to grow and push the first 11. Then nuttall, Travis, Fisher  could go on loan and gain the experience they desperately need. This has nothing to do with breretons abiltiy but yet again at rovers even when it's positive news it leaves more questions than answers. 

[joey_big_nose]

10 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

It's clear Brereton - whether he has potential or not - was a bad buy at this stage when we are in far greater need of players who can make an instant difference to the team such as a big centre back, a good winger and a proper centre forward to help Graham. Unless he suddenly starts to blossom Brereton is a luxury we cannot afford. 

Id say it's still a bit early to say, but the signs are not great to be honest.

That said most of the squad looks well stocked except for striker and winger. We've got a lot of centrebacks now - if you consider Rodwell can play there, plus Williams and Nyambe can slot in.

 

 

[Darwen Rover 007]

I thought he had his best game for us to date (or at least the home games I have seen him play in).  Is he giving us a return on the £7m definitely not yet but he was bought for the long term so we have to give him time..

What is confusing me is the following:

His previous manager didn't have him starting 

His previous club supporters loved him

Current manager isn't starting him

..To date I haven't seen anythimh of note to confirm he's gonna be a player for us.. although I do recall it took Dack some minutes to get upto speed for us too..  momentum is key and I think he needs games in his favoured position just can't see him getting them though?? 

Hence why I am confused wonder what the management view us on him?! 

[rigger]

It seemed that TM brought him over to the left wing later on so that he could tell him what to do, as he looked a bit lost.

[OJRovers]

Got to be said, he did look decent when he was running with the ball at pace. This isn’t the role that Graham’s position is required to do. Maybe that’s why he was put out wide. Still round pegs in square holes.

[SoldierMo]

One thing we know for sure is TM will not start any of his signings till they start playing and working up their fitness to what he expects...all the new signings have mentioned this

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, joey_big_nose said:

Id say it's still a bit early to say, but the signs are not great to be honest.

That said most of the squad looks well stocked except for striker and winger. We've got a lot of centrebacks now - if you consider Rodwell can play there, plus Williams and Nyambe can slot in.

 

 

Disagree with your point regarding centre backs. Players who can fill in for half an hour mid-game or for 1 or 2 games max in someones absence, thats one thing, if Mulgrew or Lenihan are out for say a month or longer then you cant rely on someone out of position, as their lack of familiarity with that position will become abundantly clear.

From the 3 you mention, Williams has experience of playing as one of a 3 at Bristol City, if he was to fill in here he wouldnt have that luxury. Rodwell has not played there regularly since his youth career and Nyambe only once or twice (I recall Hull at home and also a checkatrade game) and he looked like a fish out of water, for one he cant head a ball.

[chaddyrovers]

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

 

Hope we have some way of wiggling out of the deal/that it isnt a done deal in January - That is constructive and a valid point, its clearly based on the assumption that the 7m can be spent on other players, and whether Ben Brereton was worth that amount or whether we should have spent it elsewhere. It has and always will be the big question because its such a big amount of money for us relative to spend in the last few years. 

The reason that I imagine that it riles people is that Brereton and everyone else receives total backing in the stadium, this is a messageboard where we can give an honest opinion without it impacting on the team.

Why would we wiggling room in the deal? 

Spent on other players? What other players? Mowbray already said that the deal is done and its big outlay for him. 

Total backing in the stadium? Not away at Stoke, 2 fans in front of me where slagging him off left right centre. 

He is going to take time to adjust to the club, living in the area, Mowbray tactics, style and fitness requirements. 

[47er]

5 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I can see it coming a mile away. Some will never warm to Brereton because of the price tag. 

We are supposed to be assessing Brereton here, not  each other.

[Stuart]

11 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Let me address your points individually:

Give the young lad time - I only dont like this when its used as a counter-argument to people commenting on for example a poor performance. Yes hes very much a long term project, but as with anyone, we judge players performances as they go, on a game by game basis. If people think hes not playing well, then they think hes not playing well. The vast majority are aware that he is only young and bare that in mind. But obviously age alone is not a reason to spend such a massive amount of money, he has to offer something now. (Which I feel he did yesterday)

Hope we have some way of wiggling out of the deal/that it isnt a done deal in January - That is constructive and a valid point, its clearly based on the assumption that the 7m can be spent on other players, and whether Ben Brereton was worth that amount or whether we should have spent it elsewhere. It has and always will be the big question because its such a big amount of money for us relative to spend in the last few years. 

The new Kevin Davies - I havent seen this used, but taking your word for it, I would agree that this is a lazy comparison based solely on price tag and reputation.

I reserve my right to call them negative - Absolutely. Its just not a constructive criticism, nor does it add anything to the debate. 

The reason that I imagine that it riles people is that Brereton and everyone else receives total backing in the stadium, this is a messageboard where we can give an honest opinion without it impacting on the team.

I’m embarrassed that someone felt compelled to ‘laugh’ at this post.

Dont let a tiny minority put you off posting continuing to post like this - because there will come times when you get fed up of them!

[JBiz]

13 hours ago, Riversider28 said:

Perhaps next time you should sit on the Riverside to get a better view. There were plenty on there who saw him play well, considering he was playing out of position. 

The people I’ve spoken too about him said the same - however one person did make the point to me that he still doesn’t look fully fit or strong yet and I agreed on that.

I listened to TM’s interview and he said exactly the same. TM doesn’t strike me as someone who would attempt to justify a big signing by playing him when he’s not ready, so I’m quite convinced that game time is going to be the main source of improvement for B.B. Plus imo he’s hardly done “very poorly” that kind of comment is reserved for a Dixon Etuhu’ esq performance coming in for 20 minutes, getting booked, giving a penalty away and then being re subbed. B.b has been ineffective at worst.

In terms of other comments, I’ll just unequivocally say that already making these assertions is utterly embarrassing from my point of view;  “The new Kevin Davies”, “hope we wiggle out of signing him”, “very poor performance/cameo”, “playing him to lower eventual fee”, “should of spent elsewhere” etc 

The absolute pearler; “it’s obvious B.B. is a bad buy”....

Ive been critical of Jal down the years for stupid posts but that comment based on what we’ve seen so far from B.B. easily one of the most baffling ever. 

Edited October 22, 2018 by Biz

[laughatthedingles]

11 hours ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

That is my own opinion exactly. A strange buy, in our circumstances.

That said, I was rooting for him to have a good moment to encourage him, as soon as he took the field. I really want him to succeed and I don't buy for one second that anyone wants him to fail...or won't accept him, just because of the price tag.

 

I don’t think it’s strange at all, Mowbray is one of few managers afforded time. As newbies to the league even us as fans aren’t expecting much. We’ve got a solid squad that will at least survive. Therefore we aren’t in need of quick fixes to keep us up or push us over the line, we are able to look to the next couple of years and build a squad that would be capabale of a sustained promotion push. Brereton coming in now is with a view to him being key to that in a year or two.

[JBiz]

Just now, laughatthedingles said:

I don’t think it’s strange at all, Mowbray is one of few managers afforded time. As newbies to the league even us as fans aren’t expecting much. We’ve got a solid squad that will at least survive. Therefore we aren’t in need of quick fixes to keep us up or push us over the line, we are able to look to the next couple of years and build a squad that would be capabale of a sustained promotion push. Brereton coming in now is with a view to him being key to that in a year or two.

An exciting turn of events isn’t it? To be investing in potential as opposed to searching for premier league loans and/or players that need another chance after being dropped at their old club. 

Least it is for me. Only thing strange is the reactions of a view here.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

13 hours ago, Riversider28 said:

Perhaps next time you should sit on the Riverside to get a better view. There were plenty on there who saw him play well, considering he was playing out of position. 

Odd because I sit on the Riverside and there were many who were far from impressed. To me he looks like a player low on confidence who is not sure what his role is when he comes on wide.

It is also strange to hear Mowbray after the game praise him when he switched him and Armstrong over so he tell him what to do.

Brereton needs a goal or two pretty quickly and I'll think [hope] you see his true ability. The longer he goes without a goal the more the pressure builds. 

[Dreams of 1995]

£7m is a lot of money to be "investing in potential". He obviously has the hallmarks of a good player and has represented England at varying age levels. There's a player in there for sure.

I think one of the major worries for all Rovers fans is that the first real investment from Venkys since Rhodes may turn out to be a flop. It's constantly in my head and I find myself almost wanting too much from Brereton because of it. I get frustrated when he doesn't beat two men and score in order to justify his cost. Very unfair judgement but the truth.

I'll be honest and say I'd rather the £7m was spent on proven centre back - they are usually cheaper and you could get a very good, established centre half for that money. Yet it wasn't and we are here now with Brereton. At 19 he could earn this club more than 7m in goals or future fees - however, he could also give Mowbray a bloody nose from madam and that has to be worrying even to the most fervent defenders of his talents.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

5 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

£7m is a lot of money to be "investing in potential". He obviously has the hallmarks of a good player and has represented England at varying age levels. There's a player in there for sure.

I think one of the major worries for all Rovers fans is that the first real investment from Venkys since Rhodes may turn out to be a flop. It's constantly in my head and I find myself almost wanting too much from Brereton because of it. I get frustrated when he doesn't beat two men and score in order to justify his cost. Very unfair judgement but the truth.

I'll be honest and say I'd rather the £7m was spent on proven centre back - they are usually cheaper and you could get a very good, established centre half for that money. Yet it wasn't and we are here now with Brereton. At 19 he could earn this club more than 7m in goals or future fees - however, he could also give Mowbray a bloody nose from madam and that has to be worrying even to the most fervent defenders of his talents.

I'd wager that if Rovers have spent £7 million on a defender and spent next to nothing on forwards people would have been screaming we need to spend on the business end. If we had brought another forward as well who was contributing and were not over relient on Graham then the pressure wouldn't be as great.

The fact we spent on potential is weighing heavy on everybody's shoulders, especially his, and until he starts scoring the pressure will build.

Rovers are a selling club so we need a return on any investment. As you say centre halves are cheap so the returns are likely to be less.

Mowbray needs to find a way to releave the pressure on  Ben. Easing him in on the wing is obviously not the answer.

[Bigdoggsteel]

The good thing is there shouldn't be that much pressure on Brereton. We have one of the best strikers in the league playing upfront. We don't need him to make an immediate impact, it would be great and very welcome, but not make or break at this point. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

From Tony

Ben Brereton has cost us a lot of money, but he’s a very young boy. He scores more goals than anyone in training and in small-sided games so I have no doubt in my mind that once he acclimatises to the effort of a Bennett and a Smallwood, of how you have to work for this team, you won’t play if you don’t do the work.

[47er]

3 hours ago, laughatthedingles said:

I don’t think it’s strange at all, Mowbray is one of few managers afforded time. As newbies to the league even us as fans aren’t expecting much. We’ve got a solid squad that will at least survive. Therefore we aren’t in need of quick fixes to keep us up or push us over the line, we are able to look to the next couple of years and build a squad that would be capabale of a sustained promotion push. Brereton coming in now is with a view to him being key to that in a year or two.

Don't buy this. Too much can go wrong in 2 years.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, 47er said:

Don't buy this. Too much can go wrong in 2 years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJUhlRoBL8M 

[47er]

3 hours ago, Biz said:

The people I’ve spoken too about him said the same - however one person did make the point to me that he still doesn’t look fully fit or strong yet and I agreed on that.

I listened to TM’s interview and he said exactly the same. TM doesn’t strike me as someone who would attempt to justify a big signing by playing him when he’s not ready, so I’m quite convinced that game time is going to be the main source of improvement for B.B. Plus imo he’s hardly done “very poorly” that kind of comment is reserved for a Dixon Etuhu’ esq performance coming in for 20 minutes, getting booked, giving a penalty away and then being re subbed. B.b has been ineffective at worst.

In terms of other comments, I’ll just unequivocally say that already making these assertions is utterly embarrassing from my point of view;  “The new Kevin Davies”, “hope we wiggle out of signing him”, “very poor performance/cameo”, “playing him to lower eventual fee”, “should of spent elsewhere” etc 

The absolute pearler; “it’s obvious B.B. is a bad buy”....

Ive been critical of Jal down the years for stupid posts but that comment based on what we’ve seen so far from B.B. easily one of the most baffling ever. 

Those people were making their assessment of a player, as they are entitled to do. Rather than putting forward evidence justifying your higher opinion of the player you choose to attack them for expressing their opinion. 

IMO its an odd way for a club like our's to spend so much money. I bet we could have bought Reed, for example, and pocketed the change. He is becoming an integral part of the team NOW.

We needed another striker now but we "invested" 7M without getting one.

 

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 minute ago, 47er said:

Those people were making their assessment of a player, as they are entitled to do. Rather than putting forward evidence justifying your higher opinion of the player you choose to attack them for expressing their opinion. 

IMO its an odd way for a club like our's to spend so much money. I bet we could have bought Reed, for example, and pocketed the change. He is becoming an integral part of the team NOW.

We needed another striker now but we "invested" 7M without getting one.

 

 

I think he put forward plenty of evidence to back up his viewpoint. 

Your last sentence sums some of you up really. The same ones who shut discussion down when you are questioned and accuse people of calling you negative. 

[Oldgregg86]

26 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

From Tony

Ben Brereton has cost us a lot of money, but he’s a very young boy. He scores more goals than anyone in training and in small-sided games so I have no doubt in my mind that once he acclimatises to the effort of a Bennett and a Smallwood, of how you have to work for this team, you won’t play if you don’t do the work.

You can read into that in one of two ways. I don't know if I'm old school or niave but "acclimatise to effort". Since when was effort an option, especially to a a fit young 19 year old who you would think would be busting a gut to get a start.

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 minute ago, Oldgregg86 said:

You can read into that in one of two ways. I don't know if I'm old school or niave but "acclimatise to effort". Since when was effort an option, especially to a a fit young 19 year old who you would think would be busting a gut to get a start.

Probably not enough. He is a 19 year old English international who just moved for a large fee, I'd say he could easily be thinking he is the bees knees and can get by on ability alone. Not on Tonys watch and rightly so.