Ben Brereton Diaz

[Leonard Venkhater]

49 minutes ago, 47er said:

Don't buy this. Too much can go wrong in 2 years.

The time is now. So much is in place on which to build...but we do have to build...

 

[Garage Flower]

There is no way anyone has seen enough of him to make a proper judgment yet. Sorry the lads hardly played. 

[Exiled in Toronto]

2 hours ago, Oldgregg86 said:

You can read into that in one of two ways. I don't know if I'm old school or niave but "acclimatise to effort". Since when was effort an option, especially to a a fit young 19 year old who you would think would be busting a gut to get a start.

Effort isn’t optional, but the fitness to deliver our levels of effort over 90 minutes isn’t the norm. Reed has it and has gone into the team, Palmer hasn’t and is getting splinters in his arse - I’m not sure this Chelsea fancy-dan will ever get to the fitness levels required, spent his life strolling around. Personally I’m glad that new signings, no matter how expensive, don’t get handed a shirt based on what they cost or where they came from.

[Leonard Venkhater]

Just now, Exiled in Toronto said:

Effort isn’t optional, but the fitness to deliver our levels of effort over 90 minutes isn’t the norm. Reed has it and has gone into the team, Palmer hasn’t and is getting splinters in his arse - I’m not sure this Chelsea fancy-dan will ever get to the fitness levels required, spent his life strolling around. Personally I’m glad that new signings, no matter how expensive, don’t get handed a shirt based on what they cost or where they came from.

I can't argue with that. However, I was pleasantly surprised at Palmer's physicality and fight in the build up to the Bolton goal

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

Effort isn’t optional, but the fitness to deliver our levels of effort over 90 minutes isn’t the norm. Reed has it and has gone into the team, Palmer hasn’t and is getting splinters in his arse - I’m not sure this Chelsea fancy-dan will ever get to the fitness levels required, spent his life strolling around. Personally I’m glad that new signings, no matter how expensive, don’t get handed a shirt based on what they cost or where they came from.

very good post and I agree with it all

4 hours ago, Oldgregg86 said:

You can read into that in one of two ways. I don't know if I'm old school or niave but "acclimatise to effort". Since when was effort an option, especially to a a fit young 19 year old who you would think would be busting a gut to get a start.

or maybe read it as his fitness levels and understand of Rovers style and tactics isn't what Mowbray wants and when at Forest he wasn't getting match fitness and just doing training

9 hours ago, Stuart said:

I’m embarrassed that someone felt compelled to ‘laugh’ at this post.

Dont let a tiny minority put you off posting continuing to post like this - because there will come times when you get fed up of them!

say something stupid exactly to be laugh at. I believe that was the comment I got from @roversfan99 when I asked why you laugh at my post then. I notice that you didn't say nothing then. funny that. I really enjoy Roversfan99's posts and he mostly makes some great points. I get fed up of you most of the time when you are being like this. 

8 hours ago, Biz said:

The people I’ve spoken too about him said the same - however one person did make the point to me that he still doesn’t look fully fit or strong yet and I agreed on that.

I listened to TM’s interview and he said exactly the same. TM doesn’t strike me as someone who would attempt to justify a big signing by playing him when he’s not ready, so I’m quite convinced that game time is going to be the main source of improvement for B.B. Plus imo he’s hardly done “very poorly” that kind of comment is reserved for a Dixon Etuhu’ esq performance coming in for 20 minutes, getting booked, giving a penalty away and then being re subbed. B.b has been ineffective at worst.

In terms of other comments, I’ll just unequivocally say that already making these assertions is utterly embarrassing from my point of view;  “The new Kevin Davies”, “hope we wiggle out of signing him”, “very poor performance/cameo”, “playing him to lower eventual fee”, “should of spent elsewhere” etc 

The absolute pearler; “it’s obvious B.B. is a bad buy”....

Ive been critical of Jal down the years for stupid posts but that comment based on what we’ve seen so far from B.B. easily one of the most baffling ever. 

1000% agree. 

I don't read Jal posts anyone. maybe put him on the ignore list

[Trinidad Rover]

Many valid points on both sides of this 'debate'. As far as I was aware this is a fans forum, a place where fans can voice opinions, both negative and positive on aspects of the club they support. This is the Ben Brereton thread. 

The reaction from some is frankly bizarre. To be labelled 'ultra negative' and to suggest anyone with an opinion is following a 'narrative' and 'will never  be satisfied' is wide of the mark. A subjective opinion having watched a player, who I believe hasn't made a significant contribution thus far, is exactly that - it isn't a character assassination or attack on Tony Mowbray/Blackburn rovers/Venkys/Fans in the ground/the recruitment policy.

Anyway - I would love to eat some humble pie and hope Ben can improve and become the player TM believes he can be. Until then I maintain he isn't delivering or looking like a 7m GBP player. 

 

 

[JBiz]

38 minutes ago, Trinidad Rover said:

Many valid points on both sides of this 'debate'. As far as I was aware this is a fans forum, a place where fans can voice opinions, both negative and positive on aspects of the club they support. This is the Ben Brereton thread. 

The reaction from some is frankly bizarre. To be labelled 'ultra negative' and to suggest anyone with an opinion is following a 'narrative' and 'will never  be satisfied' is wide of the mark. A subjective opinion having watched a player, who I believe hasn't made a significant contribution thus far, is exactly that - it isn't a character assassination or attack on Tony Mowbray/Blackburn rovers/Venkys/Fans in the ground/the recruitment policy.

Anyway - I would love to eat some humble pie and hope Ben can improve and become the player TM believes he can be. Until then I maintain he isn't delivering or looking like a 7m GBP player. 

 

 

I disagree with both key reasons to criticise the deal so far; Impact and cost.

The most bizarre part for me seems, on impact or what he has been expected to deliver thus far - I’m not sure how many other 19 year old strikers we’ve brought in, who’ve turned the old second division on its head in 4/5 cameo appearances. Equally, we might have wanted him to have more impact but “obviously a bad signing”... that’s just insanity (obviously you didn’t say this TR)

Im also perplexed by the assumption we’ve put all our “irons in one fire” in terms of cost, since the Raos are unpredictable and TM stated it depends where we are come January but we will act. Also if it’s 7m - a long contract, decent wages, good experience/potential at this level; someone from the division above or a team on the cusp would probably cost 7m over 3 years of a contract in wages alone, I very much doubt B.B. started on 30/40k a week. 

So - negative/positive sweeping bs aside, It’ll take a lot more facts on the definite initial cost and his wages + a lot longer a prolonged period of innefectual displays before I’m singing from the same hymn sheet @Trinidad Rover

 

[Leonard Venkhater]

5 hours ago, 47er said:

 

We needed another striker now but we "invested" 7M without getting one.

 

 

I know I share your opinion, but I can't see how anyone could be affronted by this analysis...

[Stuart]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

say something stupid exactly to be laugh at. I believe that was the comment I got from @roversfan99 when I asked why you laugh at my post then. I notice that you didn't say nothing then. funny that. I really enjoy Roversfan99's posts and he mostly makes some great points. I get fed up of you most of the time when you are being like this. 

So you though his well laid out post was stupid? By what measure?

[Stuart]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

say something stupid exactly to be laugh at. I believe that was the comment I got from @roversfan99 when I asked why you laugh at my post then. I notice that you didn't say nothing then. funny that. I really enjoy Roversfan99's posts and he mostly makes some great points. I get fed up of you most of the time when you are being like this. 

So you though his well laid out post was stupid? By what measure?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

I disagree with both key reasons to criticise the deal so far; Impact and cost.

The most bizarre part for me seems, on impact or what he has been expected to deliver thus far - I’m not sure how many other 19 year old strikers we’ve brought in, who’ve turned the old second division on its head in 4/5 cameo appearances. Equally, we might have wanted him to have more impact but “obviously a bad signing”... that’s just insanity (obviously you didn’t say this TR)

Im also perplexed by the assumption we’ve put all our “irons in one fire” in terms of cost, since the Raos are unpredictable and TM stated it depends where we are come January but we will act. Also if it’s 7m - a long contract, decent wages, good experience/potential at this level; someone from the division above or a team on the cusp would probably cost 7m over 3 years of a contract in wages alone, I very much doubt B.B. started on 30/40k a week. 

So - negative/positive sweeping bs aside, It’ll take a lot more facts on the definite initial cost and his wages + a lot longer a prolonged period of innefectual displays before I’m singing from the same hymn sheet @Trinidad Rover

 

I could be wrong but I can't recall us spending £7 million on a 19 year old striker before. It's no good dodging the issue, for that sort of money he needs to be performing on the pitch.

[joey_big_nose]

8 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

From Tony

Ben Brereton has cost us a lot of money, but he’s a very young boy. He scores more goals than anyone in training and in small-sided games so I have no doubt in my mind that once he acclimatises to the effort of a Bennett and a Smallwood, of how you have to work for this team, you won’t play if you don’t do the work.

Basically that says he's either not fit enough or is not trying enough. Fair points from Mowbray.

He did look well off the pace on Saturday.

[JBiz]

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I could be wrong but I can't recall us spending £7 million on a 19 year old striker before. It's no good dodging the issue, for that sort of money he needs to be performing on the pitch.

I’m in agreement but eventually, not before he has even started a league game in his preferred position.

[OJRovers]

1 hour ago, joey_big_nose said:

Basically that says he's either not fit enough or is not trying enough. Fair points from Mowbray.

He did look well off the pace on Saturday.

Strange one to understand, because Rodwell for example has got match fit and he hasn’t played regularly for 2 years nor had a pre season, and isnt a fresh 19 years old.

[47er]

2 hours ago, Biz said:

I’m in agreement but eventually, not before he has even started a league game in his preferred position.

Why hasn't he started? That's the whole point! He currently isn't good enough to be picked. So, the conversation is turned to "he's one for the future"!

Ambitious Championship clubs don't commit 7M for one player and put him on one side to develop!!

They concentrate on what matters--------promotion. Once you achieve that its a different story.

If he can't play we are back where we were in summer----looking for another striker or hoping Graham can see it through 60 minutes at least, three times a week!

As of NOW we need another striker even though we are committed to paying 7M for one who isn't chosen!! Laughable.

[Exiled in Toronto]

3 hours ago, 47er said:

Why hasn't he started? That's the whole point! He currently isn't good enough to be picked. So, the conversation is turned to "he's one for the future"!

Ambitious Championship clubs don't commit 7M for one player and put him on one side to develop!!

They concentrate on what matters--------promotion. Once you achieve that its a different story.

If he can't play we are back where we were in summer----looking for another striker or hoping Graham can see it through 60 minutes at least, three times a week!

As of NOW we need another striker even though we are committed to paying 7M for one who isn't chosen!! Laughable.

Given we are joint 5th and the only reason we aren’t joint top is that we’ve been shipping soft, late goals, I don’t see compelling evidence we need another striker NOW. Yes, if Graham gets injured, but then if Raya or Mulgrew get injured, we actually need a new keeper and 14-goal centre half.

[den]

26 minutes ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

Given we are joint 5th and the only reason we aren’t joint top is that we’ve been shipping soft, late goals, I don’t see compelling evidence we need another striker NOW. Yes, if Graham gets injured, but then if Raya or Mulgrew get injured, we actually need a new keeper and 14-goal centre half.

What do you suggest we do if Graham were to suffer a long term injury tomorrow?

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, den said:

What do you suggest we do if Graham were to suffer a long term injury tomorrow?

Play either Armstrong or Brereton. Injuries will happen.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

3 hours ago, den said:

What do you suggest we do if Graham were to suffer a long term injury tomorrow?

Graham getting injured is going to hurt but the same could be said for any side whose team is built around key players. Part of any teams push for glory is keeping their stars fit.

If Graham does get injured then Mowbray needs a different style of play to get the best out of the remaining squad. The Sheffield Utd game gave a glimpse that Mowbray has no answer to that yet. Brereton is not suited to the role that Graham plays but thats not his fault. Nor is that we are we prepared to 7 million for him. Its Mowbray's job to find an answer to both getting the best of a squad without Graham and getting the best out of expensive outlay.

[47er]

4 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

Given we are joint 5th and the only reason we aren’t joint top is that we’ve been shipping soft, late goals, I don’t see compelling evidence we need another striker NOW. Yes, if Graham gets injured, but then if Raya or Mulgrew get injured, we actually need a new keeper and 14-goal centre half.

Well thanks for confirming my analysis of the transfer window in which I argued that there were serious gaps we hadn't covered! I specifically referenced centre-back and keeper!

I didn't know at the time I needed to include striker as well.

I received a heap of criticism for saying it but good to see you on board!  

[47er]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Play either Armstrong or Brereton. Injuries will happen.

And neither of those two could possibly compensate if Graham was injured no matter how good Mowbray's management is.

He could get the most out of his squad every week and we could still lose because there is currently no-one as good as him in that position or even close.

[RoverKyle]

I don't buy the idea that if we lost Graham we'd suddenly be awful. When Armstrong played through the middle in the cup, albeit against Carlisle, there were signs that we could play a different style successfully if we needed to.

[den]

42 minutes ago, RoverKyle said:

I don't buy the idea that if we lost Graham we'd suddenly be awful. When Armstrong played through the middle in the cup, albeit against Carlisle, there were signs that we could play a different style successfully if we needed to.

I don’t think it’s any coincidence that we almost always struggle after Graham is substituted around the 60 mins mark. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

51 minutes ago, RoverKyle said:

I don't buy the idea that if we lost Graham we'd suddenly be awful. When Armstrong played through the middle in the cup, albeit against Carlisle, there were signs that we could play a different style successfully if we needed to.

Ya, but against Derby then he was non-existent and switched after 35 minutes. I don't know about awful, but I don't see us being better with anyone else up front apart from Graham at this current time 

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 hour ago, 47er said:

Well thanks for confirming my analysis of the transfer window in which I argued that there were serious gaps we hadn't covered! I specifically referenced centre-back and keeper!

I didn't know at the time I needed to include striker as well.

I received a heap of criticism for saying it but good to see you on board!  

I think everyone agreed we needed a centre half and back up keeper. No need to be patting yourself on the back for that. Going off this post, you don't think Raya should be playing? Very, very odd comment.