Ben Brereton Diaz

[Stuart]

34 minutes ago, dingles staying down 4ever said:

Sad to say but it looked like Samuel was the man who was earmarked to be Graham's replacement in Mowbray's plans.

We all know Mowbray like's his width to come from forwards who can cut in on one side with a more defensive type midfielder on the other. So once Nyambe is fit, Bennett will move back into a wide position, Reid will go back to the bench or might displace Smallwood with Armstrong remaining on the other wing

I know Reid is only on loan but it would be such a waste for him to go back to the bench. Maybe he is playing for a contract or to get noticed but he really is a bright young thing. As prospects go the energy that Reid puts into his game is what Brereton lacks.

[JacknOry]

Just now, Stuart said:

I know Reid is only on loan but it would be such a waste for him to go back to the bench. Maybe he is playing for a contract or to get noticed but he really is a bright young thing. As prospects go the energy that Reid puts into his game is what Brereton lacks.

i would be doing what we can to try and make Reed a permanent in January if possible. The longer we mess about the more he will catch the eyes of others. Granted, Southampton might want to wait and see until the summer before making a decision based on the division they are in.

[Hasta]

A lot of talk about price tags and Mowbrays comments, Forest fans opinions and other clubs chasing him etc... over the last 24 hours on this thread.

The fact remains he hasn't looked good in any appearance playing out wide, whether he cost £7million or £70k.

Football is littered with 19 year olds who make a name for themselves. I'm not expecting him to beat every man and win games on his own (As TM implies). I am expecting him, at 19 years old, to be able to come on for 30 minutes in his preferred position and give a generally good performance. It's baffling why we haven't seen him tried in that position. 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2018 by Hasta

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Hasta said:

I am expecting him, at 19 years old, to be able to come on for 30 minutes in his preferred position and give a generally good performance. It's baffling why we haven't seen him tried in that position. 

Mowbray doesn't trust him defensively and we are never in a position in games to 'risk' him unless we're losing. 

[Hasta]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

Mowbray doesn't trust him defensively and we are never in a position in games to 'risk' him unless we're losing. 

Seems odd that we buy a striker who we don't trust to play up front unless we are losing. How hard is it to be fit enough to close players down from the front.

Where did he come on and play against Sheff United  ? (genuinely don't know as I missed that game?)

Edited October 26, 2018 by Hasta

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Though I can't say I have thought - "wow what a player" - I do think he has shown in flashes why Mowbray took such an expensive risk.

For a big man he travels with the ball excellently - and though not lightening fast does seem to be able to run with the ball under good control at speed. Being so big - given more experience (and some training from Danny Graham) I could easily see that he will be able to hold the ball up well. Goal scoring - other than the header he missed - struggling to remember any clear cut chances he missed (I am sure somebody will correct me). As with all strikers he does need a goal to get him going - if he had scored a couple of goals by now (but only displayed the same level of overall performance) - people wouldn't be so harsh on him (such is life).

I consider myself a glass half full person (most of the time) - but I think there are too many people quick to jump on every single mistake he has made in his short cameos - but ignore similar mistakes from other players.

What I would agree - it was a lot of money to spend on a prospect given our position. Whether it could have been spent better elsewhere is always difficult to say - after the Leeds match and at Swansea half time - people would probably say not (possibly more depth at Centre Half) - at the end of the Swansea match some people wanted to replace half the team ?

One question (for people in the know) - has he always looked so knackered after only 5 minutes ? He is either unfit - or going to be like Damien Duff who looked knackered after his first run.  

 

 

[Stuart]

16 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

i would be doing what we can to try and make Reed a permanent in January if possible. The longer we mess about the more he will catch the eyes of others. Granted, Southampton might want to wait and see until the summer before making a decision based on the division they are in.

Agreed. If we have loads of money left to spend then we should be all over a Reid deal.

[47er]

53 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Mowbray on Brereton when he signed here including his role within the side, the price, not putting too much pressure on him. From the LT article. 

Tony Mowbray is keen not to burden Ben Brereton with too much expectation after the 19-year-old secured his move to Rovers.

 

But the boss is excited to work with the England Under-19 international who arrives initially on loan from Nottingham Forest.

That will be made permanent in January, with the fee in the region of £6m-£7m.

Mowbray felt the opportunity to sign Brereton, who has eight goals in 53 Championship games, was too good to turn down, having pursued him for much of the month.

The boss said: “I’m just trying to add quality.

“He’s 19-years-old, I’m conscious of not overplaying him. He’s a young guy with lots of good attributes, he’s fast, can run with the ball, play off both feet, he can dribble, and hopefully he’s going to score and create goals for us and be another string to our bow.

“The price for me is really irrelevant. I know it’s not for the bigger picture for the football club but I’m just trying to add the right quality to the team that’s going to help us and make us stronger, more creative, offensive and creating more chances.

“I think it's just too good an opportunity for us to turn down. We had the money to spend and when you've got it, let's spend it.

“Let's forget about the price now and concentrate on the player. He's a 19-year-old boy. We're not going to burden him and expect him to win games on his own.

“Let's be excited about him coming, but let's not burden him with a huge expectation, because he's 19.

“There will be games where he doesn't start and has to affect the game off the bench. There'll be other games where we have to hope he can make the difference in the game.

“Let's just give him time to settle in to our club, to get to know the lads, to move to a new area, to find accommodation and not over-burden him with expectation too early.”

Brereton, at 6’3 is able to play across the frontline, but revealed his favoured role is playing down the middle.

Mowbray often uses what he describes as ‘wide strikers’, a role Brereton has done in the past, and one Mowbray could look to utilise him in again.

But his versatility will be useful to Rovers, as the boss weighs up his options for the season ahead.

“I’ve told him that. His preference would be to play down the middle, but so would Adam Armstrong’s,” Mowbray added.

“He played most of last season on the left wing for me and scored goals from that position.

“Mo Salah plays on the right wing for Liverpool and scored 40 goals last season.

“Wide strikers, I wouldn’t say they’re going to be right wingers or left wingers. A number nine or wide striker? We’ll see what the opposition do and play to our strengths against the weakness of the opposition.

“As long as the players understand that, an Adam or a Ben, that at times we might play them not necessarily where they want to play, if it benefits the team that’s what we’ll do.”

 

     57

Once again you've told us what TM thinks and naturally this is what you think. But that won't close debate as you'd hope because the rest of us write what WE think!

I could go through that and say where I agree and where I didn't but it would be a waste of time.

"wide strikers"? If we sign Salah I might be persuaded to go along with it!

[Stuart]

1 minute ago, 47er said:

Once again you've told us what TM thinks and naturally this is what you think. But that won't close debate as you'd hope because the rest of us write what WE think!

I could go through that and say where I agree and where I didn't but it would be a waste of time.

"wide strikers"? If we sign Salah I might be persuaded to go along with it!

Chris, if you take nothing else from this post, please don’t dismiss the bit in bold.

We all get that you will take what Mowbray says as being the final word on any matter but that isn’t the case for everyone.

As fans, we are allowed to disagree with Mowbray. We don’t need to have any scouting, coaching or management credentials to do so, that’s the beauty of a messageboard. Even TM would accept that.

[unsall]

1 hour ago, JacknOry said:

A paragraph here and there would have made that far easier to read.

So its rubbish? Of course the contract comes into play as well - the whole value of the transfer comes into play. A freebie on 5k per week who turns out crap - nobody will care. Any expensive signing or player on large wages will have that taken into consideration if they are crap and it becomes a big deal as it is big money wasted by the club.

Chaddy was the one leading the slagging towards Graham at the start of last season so ask your mate about that one. 

I have not even commented on Brereton and actually agree that he has not had the proper chance to show his true worth yet and will need time in his preferred position. My post was purely about Chaddy saying that transfer fees do not matter when it comes to judging the success of a transfer - which it obviously does.

Using Nuttall was an extreme example rather than me saying he was actually better, though in fairness, as of yet I have not seen to much to suggest that this is incorrect as of yet. Once we get to see him upfront playing as a striker like he is meant to be - we can get a better opinion on him.

Listen don’t come with the grammar police with me,if you struggle to read that’s your problem,you’ve got your negative views and I have my positive views, end of.

 

 

 

[unsall]

9 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

- You are right on wages. Just as if Brereton cost 7m and is judged accordingly, weve had many players on high wages that have been criticised for not providing value for money. The transfer fee we pay for someone, and the wages they are on, do influence determining whether someone is a success.

- No one thinks that they know better than Mowbray. Its a commonly used, stupid statement to make. We are all entitled to our opinions, hence the purpose of the messageboard, and obviously Mowbray is not always right. 

- Im not sure its fair to judge his potential on tenious newspaper links. Im not at all convinced that Man United or Tottenhan ever seriously looked at him.

- Forest fans were also pretty insistent that Brereton is not capable of playing a wide role effectively. And was much more effective central, and Forest only played 1 up front. 

- How do you know "for a fact" that Marriott was first choice?

How did I know re Marriott,because the guy who was dealing with it told me.

[JacknOry]

Just now, unsall said:

Listen don’t come with the grammar police with me,if you struggle to read that’s your problem,you’ve got your negative views and I have my positive views, end of.

 

 

 

Ah that old chestnut. Negative and positive.

How am I negative for saying that a transfer fee will always be used as a consideration when judging a player?

I have not even said anything about BB as a whole and believe he needs more time in his preferred position. Hope he comes good but 30 minutes here and on the wing is not enough to be able to form an opinion just yet.

[unsall]

Just now, JacknOry said:

Ah that old chestnut. Negative and positive.

How am I negative for saying that a transfer fee will always be used as a consideration when judging a player?

I have not even said anything about BB as a whole and believe he needs more time in his preferred position. Hope he comes good but 30 minutes here and on the wing is not enough to be able to form an opinion just yet.

Too many paragraphs for a short message.

[JacknOry]

Just now, unsall said:

Too many paragraphs for a short message.

They are three sentences, not paragraphs.

[roversfan99]

Mowbrays comments today about us lacking a striker are very concerning. He signed 4 attacking players and yet he seemingly onlly trusts Dack, and beyond that one striker in Graham. The other 4, he needs to learn how to get the best from. He has no right to suggest that hes short up front after spending over 8m on 2 strikers and its worrying that in his recent interviews, unless hes bluffing, that he doesnt seem to be acknowledging that Brereton is the obvious alternative to Graham centrally.

If he is going to continue to see Brereton as a wide man, then the general consensus will be that he should have signed a winger instead. Breretons a player who when he did impress at Forest, it was as a striker. He is not a winger and if Mowbray continues to play him there, barring a totally unexpected change in affairs, both he and Brereton (mainly Mowbray) will continue to draw criticism and that signing will really become the elephant in the room.

[K-Hod]

1 hour ago, unsall said:

Listen don’t come with the grammar police with me,if you struggle to read that’s your problem,you’ve got your negative views and I have my positive views, end of.

 

 

 

Yeah, but it's part of the board rules to type in clear, legible English and it isn't the first time this has been raised, to be fair.

Can we stop with the positive vs negative as well, please? It's duller than dishwater and isn't conducive to debate. If you think someone is being too negative, or conversely too positive, explain why, put some meat on the bones. 

Edited October 26, 2018 by K-Hod

[dingles staying down 4ever]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Mowbrays comments today about us lacking a striker are very concerning. He signed 4 attacking players and yet he seemingly onlly trusts Dack, and beyond that one striker in Graham. The other 4, he needs to learn how to get the best from. He has no right to suggest that hes short up front after spending over 8m on 2 strikers and its worrying that in his recent interviews, unless hes bluffing, that he doesnt seem to be acknowledging that Brereton is the obvious alternative to Graham centrally.

If he is going to continue to see Brereton as a wide man, then the general consensus will be that he should have signed a winger instead. Breretons a player who when he did impress at Forest, it was as a striker. He is not a winger and if Mowbray continues to play him there, barring a totally unexpected change in affairs, both he and Brereton (mainly Mowbray) will continue to draw criticism and that signing will really become the elephant in the room.

Yes we signed 4 attacking players and all 4 are vying for the same role which is occupied with an existing player. Whose fault is that? It certainly not Brereton's.

The problem is that should Graham gets injured we have noone who can play that role. Mowbray suggests Dack or Armstrong but neither has shown capable so for. We can stay lucky then this has to be addressed in Janurary urgently. From the evidence so far we have no plan B style of play.

Again this the managements fault not Breretons

[47er]

4 hours ago, Stuart said:

And you used the word ‘clearly’ when in truth it couldn’t be any more opaque.

He got that off Theresa May!

[Mercer]

4 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Mowbray on Brereton when he signed here including his role within the side, the price, not putting too much pressure on him. From the LT article. 

Tony Mowbray is keen not to burden Ben Brereton with too much expectation after the 19-year-old secured his move to Rovers.

 

But the boss is excited to work with the England Under-19 international who arrives initially on loan from Nottingham Forest.

That will be made permanent in January, with the fee in the region of £6m-£7m.

Mowbray felt the opportunity to sign Brereton, who has eight goals in 53 Championship games, was too good to turn down, having pursued him for much of the month.

The boss said: “I’m just trying to add quality.

“He’s 19-years-old, I’m conscious of not overplaying him. He’s a young guy with lots of good attributes, he’s fast, can run with the ball, play off both feet, he can dribble, and hopefully he’s going to score and create goals for us and be another string to our bow.

“The price for me is really irrelevant. I know it’s not for the bigger picture for the football club but I’m just trying to add the right quality to the team that’s going to help us and make us stronger, more creative, offensive and creating more chances.

“I think it's just too good an opportunity for us to turn down. We had the money to spend and when you've got it, let's spend it.

“Let's forget about the price now and concentrate on the player. He's a 19-year-old boy. We're not going to burden him and expect him to win games on his own.

“Let's be excited about him coming, but let's not burden him with a huge expectation, because he's 19.

“There will be games where he doesn't start and has to affect the game off the bench. There'll be other games where we have to hope he can make the difference in the game.

“Let's just give him time to settle in to our club, to get to know the lads, to move to a new area, to find accommodation and not over-burden him with expectation too early.”

Brereton, at 6’3 is able to play across the frontline, but revealed his favoured role is playing down the middle.

Mowbray often uses what he describes as ‘wide strikers’, a role Brereton has done in the past, and one Mowbray could look to utilise him in again.

But his versatility will be useful to Rovers, as the boss weighs up his options for the season ahead.

“I’ve told him that. His preference would be to play down the middle, but so would Adam Armstrong’s,” Mowbray added.

“He played most of last season on the left wing for me and scored goals from that position.

“Mo Salah plays on the right wing for Liverpool and scored 40 goals last season.

“Wide strikers, I wouldn’t say they’re going to be right wingers or left wingers. A number nine or wide striker? We’ll see what the opposition do and play to our strengths against the weakness of the opposition.

“As long as the players understand that, an Adam or a Ben, that at times we might play them not necessarily where they want to play, if it benefits the team that’s what we’ll do.”

 

     57

Absolutely staggering stuff!

How can the price be irrelevant when it limits our options to strengthen elsewhere!?  It's Mowbray's job to use the relatively limited resources available to strengthen the 1st team.  To commit almost £9million on Armstrong and Brereton and then say we are a striker light is, IMV, farcical.

Mbappe who starred in a World Cup Final is just 19, Alex-Arnold was ripping it up at 19 and played in a Champions League Final,  Sessegnon and Ampadu were/are sensational 17 year olds.

The bottom line is if you are good enough then you are old enough.  IMV, we have wasted £7million on a 19 year old striker not good enough to command a regular place in a newly promoted Championship team.

By the way Chaddy, both Shajan and Northcote are very good in their own different ways!

 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2018 by Mercer

[Stuart]

14 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Absolutely staggering stuff!

How can the price be irrelevant when it limits our options to strengthen elsewhere!?  It's Mowbray's job to use the relatively limited resources available to strengthen the 1st team.  To commit almost £9million on Armstrong and Brereton and then say we are a striker light is, IMV, farcical.

Mbappe who starred in a World Cup Final is just 19, Alex-Arnold was ripping it up at 19 and played in a Champions League Final,  Sessegnon and Ampadu were/are sensational 17 year olds.

The bottom line is if you are good enough then you are old enough.  IMV, we have wasted £7million on a 19 year old striker not good enough to command a regular place in a newly promoted team to the Championship.

By the way Chaddy, both Shajan and Northcote are very good in their own different ways!

First and third paras ??

Second para ?

[chaddyrovers]

"He's got all the talent in the world.  We just have to be patient with him."

#rovers manager Tony Mowbray says the best is yet to come from forward Ben Brereton.

#brfc #bbclancssport #bbcfootball https://t.co/zlvsP2PNXr

"We shouldn't be surprised." #rovers manager Tony Mowbray speaks to us about the challenges of the championship. #bbcfootball #bbclancssport #brfc

 

 

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Edited October 26, 2018 by chaddyrovers

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

15 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I would the reasons why Pogba isn't performing good enough is down to number of factors like Mourinho style of play and attitude towards the players, Pogba's attitude towards Mourinho, Pogba's agent, his role in the team. 

 

When Pogba was there as a lad nobody at UTD was too bent out of shape about his performances and expectations were quite low. When he comes back to the club with a massive price on his head they are concerned and expectations are high.

That's football.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, Mercer said:

Absolutely staggering stuff!

How can the price be irrelevant when it limits our options to strengthen elsewhere!?  It's Mowbray's job to use the relatively limited resources available to strengthen the 1st team.  To commit almost £9million on Armstrong and Brereton and then say we are a striker light is, IMV, farcical.

The bottom line is if you are good enough then you are old enough.  IMV, we have wasted £7million on a 19 year old striker not good enough to command a regular place in a newly promoted Championship team.

By the way Chaddy, both Shajan and Northcote are very good in their own different ways!

 

 

 

how did it limit our options to strengthen else? Still got money left over from the summer budget. 

You need to listen to Mowbray's comments from yesterday that I have just posted. 

 

 

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Mowbrays comments today about us lacking a striker are very concerning. He signed 4 attacking players and yet he seemingly onlly trusts Dack, and beyond that one striker in Graham. The other 4, he needs to learn how to get the best from. He has no right to suggest that hes short up front after spending over 8m on 2 strikers and its worrying that in his recent interviews, unless hes bluffing, that he doesnt seem to be acknowledging that Brereton is the obvious alternative to Graham centrally.

If he is going to continue to see Brereton as a wide man, then the general consensus will be that he should have signed a winger instead. Breretons a player who when he did impress at Forest, it was as a striker. He is not a winger and if Mowbray continues to play him there, barring a totally unexpected change in affairs, both he and Brereton (mainly Mowbray) will continue to draw criticism and that signing will really become the elephant in the room.

You need to listen to the Mowbray's interview I posted today from BBC Lancashire. He explained the way he has use him so far. and asking for fans to be patience. He explained that he is the Graham, Dack and Armstrong plus 1 more as the front 4 cos of the chemistry and the understand they have. 

We only have 3 strikers fit at the minute and I understand why he wanted another striker available but Samuel and Nuttall are injured. Would be given him more options. 

[Hasta]

7 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

You need to listen to the Mowbray's interview I posted today from BBC Lancashire. He explained the way he has use him so far. and asking for fans to be patience. He explained that he is the Graham, Dack and Armstrong plus 1 more as the front 4 cos of the chemistry and the understand they have. 

We only have 3 strikers fit at the minute and I understand why he wanted another striker available but Samuel and Nuttall are injured. Would be given him more options. 

Chaddy stop quoting Mowbray to validate your opinion as he obviously isn't going to come out with something negative about Brereton. He's hardly going to come out and say "I'm disappointed with what he has shown so far"

When Brereton has played this season, he has been played out of position and has generally not looked very good.

That is an opinion which most people hold. He may have shown the odd flash of ability but generally he has been pretty poor regardless of whether he cost £7mill or was free.

He may well start up front in the next few games, look brilliant and progress to become a legend. We all hope he does. We know he has been bought for potential. However, all people are saying is at the moment that £7million has been wasted on what he has shown so far.

Some people seem to think voicing that opinion on a message board is a sin against the club.

Edited October 26, 2018 by Hasta

[roversfan99]

14 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

how did it limit our options to strengthen else? Still got money left over from the summer budget. 

You need to listen to Mowbray's comments from yesterday that I have just posted. 

 

 

You need to listen to the Mowbray's interview I posted today from BBC Lancashire. He explained the way he has use him so far. and asking for fans to be patience. He explained that he is the Graham, Dack and Armstrong plus 1 more as the front 4 cos of the chemistry and the understand they have. 

We only have 3 strikers fit at the minute and I understand why he wanted another striker available but Samuel and Nuttall are injured. Would be given him more options. 

Its not about patience, the main curiosity is about how Brereton is being used by Mowbray. I dont need to hear him say anything to see that he looks poor in a wide role. You dont spend so much money to waste a player in a role he blatantly cannot play. He should either play as a 9 or not at all. He should be 2nd choice behind Graham as it stands. Palmer and Rothwell are far better suited to the role in question.

We only play 1 striker! 3 is plenty. Armstrong has prior form for excelling wide, Brereton hasnt and looks like a fish out of water there. As @Hasta touches on, just because Mowbray says it doesnt mean it is right or that we must agree with it.