Ben Brereton Diaz

[chaddyrovers]

9 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

To clarify, is your opinion of Brereton still that we shouldnt use him wide? (or Dack central)

Amidst your repeating of Mowbrays interviews, I am unclear as to whether that has changed in the last 3 days.

Ive already answered this question earlier and given my opinion on Brereton. 

Ive posted links to Mowbray's interviews on Brereton. Thats it. 

 

[arbitro]

8 hours ago, 47er said:

The trouble is you're becoming TM"s ventriloquist dummy. If you've no opinion of your own and you're just going to parrot TM, what's the point?

A Mowmance perhaps?

?

[DanielMB]

I trust in TM. When Brereton came in he said we shouldnt rush him. I believe he will become a big player for us. If there was a 19 year old player who could produce immediately he would never come to Rovers for a measely 7 mil. We see it all over the world. Clubs pay big money for talent and hope they eventually come good. Barca paid massively for Dembele and Malcom. Monaco paid massively Pellegri and so on. Of course these are all on a bigger scale but when you go for young players you pay for the talent. They are rarely the finished article and have a lot of developing to do. Physically and mentally.

Edited October 27, 2018 by DanielMB

[47er]

8 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Very much disagree with it all..but I find interest you have come back on the messageboard tonight. Wonder how long it is before you telling us Dack wants out and Rovers are selling. 

Enemy of the People!

[47er]

8 minutes ago, DanielMB said:

I trust in TM. When Brereton came in he said we shouldnt rush him.?

A man of his word then?

[DanielMB]

Just now, 47er said:

A man of his word then?

Would seem so

[Stuart]

A word is worth very little in football. Things change, money talks. Pretty sure Mowbray said Rodwell wouldn’t play for some time yet here he is.

Not sure why Brereton needs mollycoddling. If he is good enough he is old enough. Right now Mowbray has his men and it’s hard to break into that group. You have to be willing to play anywhere. If it works it’ll be a master stroke. But by what yardstick do we measure it working? Promotion? Play-offs? Avoiding relegation? Brereton scoring or, more likely, providing assists?

It’s much more simple, surely. Play the lad as centre forward and see if he has what it takes. Judging him on how well he plays out of position isn’t really fair for a striker.

[JacknOry]

What irks a little is that people keep complaining that some fans are writing off BB - which is not the case apart from maybe one or two.

He needs patience, he needs to get used to the area, TM's way of doing things blah, blah, blah.

Sure, most understand that and this is not the issue. The issue is not BB so much just the fact that he is being played out of position. I have not judged BB at all - simply because we have not yet seen him play his proper position. I just do not understand playing him on the wing when he is obviously not suited there and we have players like Rothwell and Palmer who have performed better there not getting a look in.

Not sure why TM prefers even Dack up front to BB when that also comes at the double cost of losing Dack in his best position as well.

[Mercer]

8 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Blimey, Ive explained my opinion on the way we used Brereton and patience is needed. Explained my view on what I expect from each player regardless of cost. 

On the budget, he still have some left over and I think the owners will.get some more money for us to kick on and sign 3 players. If you disagree fair enough

 

How do you know he has money left over?

There is a huge difference in having £1million or £10million leftover.

 

[Mercer]

8 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Very much disagree with it all..but I find interest you have come back on the messageboard tonight. Wonder how long it is before you telling us Dack wants out and Rovers are selling. 

That's your entitlement to disagree Chaddy.

In a democracy and a country of free press, we are all entitled to voice an opinion providing it's inoffensive.

I've been dipping in and out for a week or two now but the reality is that some of us can't afford the time for this MB that you can.

[Mercer]

8 hours ago, DeeCee said:

Pretty much agree with your views but who would be the alternative?

Picking the right man is enormously difficult as countless chairmen have found time and time again.

I look at it from several angles.  We are now a more stable club and therefore a more attractive proposition.  It's been an age old argument on this MB who better can we get - we had it with Bowyer and now, to a degree, with Mowbray.  If you don't ask then you don't get!  I think Rovers would have enormous interest if there was a vacancy.  It needs a CEO with some vision and imagination like the late Derrick Keighley when he made Howard Kendall Rovers' player manager.

[arbitro]

16 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

What irks a little is that people keep complaining that some fans are writing off BB - which is not the case apart from maybe one or two.

He needs patience, he needs to get used to the area, TM's way of doing things blah, blah, blah.

Sure, most understand that and this is not the issue. The issue is not BB so much just the fact that he is being played out of position. I have not judged BB at all - simply because we have not yet seen him play his proper position. I just do not understand playing him on the wing when he is obviously not suited there and we have players like Rothwell and Palmer who have performed better there not getting a look in.

Not sure why TM prefers even Dack up front to BB when that also comes at the double cost of losing Dack in his best position as well.

Some very good points. Sometimes posters take things completely out of context and miss the points being made because they see any constructive comment as negative and critical.

Watching Brereton in matches recently his body language is anything but confident which contradicts what Mowbray says about him in training.

[JacknOry]

18 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Picking the right man is enormously difficult as countless chairmen have found time and time again.

I look at it from several angles.  We are now a more stable club and therefore a more attractive proposition.  It's been an age old argument on this MB who better can we get - we had it with Bowyer and now, to a degree, with Mowbray.  If you don't ask then you don't get!  I think Rovers would have enormous interest if there was a vacancy.  It needs a CEO with some vision and imagination like the late Derrick Keighley when he made Howard Kendall Rovers' player manager.

TM has more than earned a shot to continue what he is building - we have progressed under him each season even if we did initially go down. You cannot really put that on his shoulders as the points we picked up under him in the Championship last time would have had us midtable over the course of an entire season. On top of that we were relegated with the highest points total in a decade and even then was only on goal difference. He also had to work with the the dross that he had inherited from Coyle and try to get his ways of doing things across extremely quickly.

We can only judge him on how we now move forward and right now I think he has done very well to have us where we are, just a few points out of the playoffs at this stage of the season. Most of us (myself included) at the start of the season, would have just been happy to avoid relegation this season and consolidate, so to be even talking about higher aspirations means he is exceeding expectations for most of us so far this season.

Sure, many would disagree with some of his lineups, tactics, defense first mentality, substitutions, transfers, hatred of wingers and playing players out of position but I am pretty sure you would see the same on any messageboard up and down the country.

At the end of the day, he has got the club moving forward, has managed to get the V's to open their chequebook and the players we have are collectively the hardest working bunch we have had for a long time with a never die attitude that seem to want to play for the shirt. it has been many years since we have been able to say that.

Would you gamble all of that right now in the hope that those above him could pull off getting someone better?  

Edited October 27, 2018 by JacknOry

[Norbert Rassragr]

As things stand, Mercer is talking out of his hat about Mowbray. After 'Coyley' and the previous bouts of madness and corruption since 2010 a manager getting promotion easily and then taking the team near the play offs is great. There have been odd substitutions and tactics at times, but show me a manager that is perfect in that regard. As I type now, I wonder what Mercer demands. Wolves style dominance is unrealistic.

[JBiz]

On 25/10/2018 at 15:28, K-Hod said:

Whether we like it or not, the price will always be a problem when it's the most we've spent for ages, to be fair.

6/7m likely in installments.

If we renegotiate Dack to 30k Pw for 5 years to avert premier league interest (hypothetical) that would cost us about the same.

BB is obviously not going to be on the top whack. I think many of the signings of championship forwards over the recent years (including our own JR) for similar amounts to Brereton have included monster wages on top. Isn’t Assombolonga on 50k? Has even scored in the premier league?

The price is also not that big in terms of the recent explosion - infact Armstrong’s bargain price puts more pressure on B.B. for me. The price is only a problem imo, if there is an immediate need and expectation for him to step up and change football games. At this moment, Dack, Graham and Armstrong are all in front of him, so no rush for me.

If the owners continue this idea of investing that way, in my view it’s only a matter of time before we move up. Signing players for “now” amidst a climate of crazy wages and agents, it’s not cheap.

 

[K-Hod]

Just now, Biz said:

6/7m likely in installments.

If we renegotiate Dack to 30k Pw for 5 years to avert premier league interest (hypothetical) that would cost us about the same.

BB is obviously not going to be on the top whack. I think many of the signings of championship forwards over the recent years (including our own JR) for similar amounts to Brereton have included monster wages on top. Isn’t Assombolonga on 50k? Has even scored in the premier league?

The price is also not that big in terms of the recent explosion - infact Armstrong’s bargain price puts more pressure on B.B. for me. The price is only a problem imo, if there is an immediate need and expectation for him to step up and change football games. At this moment, Dack, Graham and Armstrong are all in front of him, so no rush for me.

If the owners continue this idea of investing that way, in my view it’s only a matter of time before we move up. Signing players for “now” amidst a climate of crazy wages and agents, it’s not cheap.

 

Absolutely mate, but that’s an ideal world scenario. This isn’t an ideal world. 

Price tag will always affect judgment, it’s inevitable.

[JBiz]

Just now, K-Hod said:

Absolutely mate, but that’s an ideal world scenario. This isn’t an ideal world. 

Price tag will always affect judgment, it’s inevitable.

To make any lasting say or judgement of his abilities or the signing overall, of a 19 year old attacker before even a league start? On the sole basis that we haven’t spent that much since we Rhodes? Might be inevitable, but doesn’t mean I can’t point out how I disagree with that mentality.

I know you haven’t said that by the way. I’m sure you’d agree also that 6m - is actually a bargain in the modern climate. If he has a good run of goals - English too, u21... There’s not many top drawer around.

[K-Hod]

7 minutes ago, Biz said:

To make any lasting say or judgement of his abilities or the signing overall, of a 19 year old attacker before even a league start? On the sole basis that we haven’t spent that much since we Rhodes? Might be inevitable, but doesn’t mean I can’t point out how I disagree with that mentality.

I know you haven’t said that by the way. I’m sure you’d agree also that 6m - is actually a bargain in the modern climate. If he has a good run of goals - English too, u21... There’s not many top drawer around.

I’m not saying it’s right mate, or that I’ve made up my mind on him, as I most definitely haven’t. You know that! 

But it’s the nature of the beast.

[Mercer]

29 minutes ago, Biz said:

6/7m likely in installments.

The price is also not that big in terms of the recent explosion - infact Armstrong’s bargain price puts more pressure on B.B. for me. The price is only a problem imo, if there is an immediate need and expectation for him to step up and change football games. At this moment, Dack, Graham and Armstrong are all in front of him, so no rush for me.

 

 

Doesn't matter whether the fee is instalments or not - the bottom line is it's a financial commitment / liability for the club.

For the type of money we've committed to, there has to be an expectation that Brereton, or any other player we sign for that type of money, will walk into to the club, make a huge impact and take the club to another playing level.  If Brereton is no better than Graham and Armstrong (central strikers), we should not have bought him for, IMV, such a ludicrous fee.  As I and many others have said, for that type of money, we could have signed 3 very decent players who would command first team spots and who would have strengthened the team significantly.  Brereton has not strengthened the team, Mowbray can't think he's good enough to start, and therefore in my view is an unfathomable signing.

[JBiz]

24 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

I’m not saying it’s right mate, or that I’ve made up my mind on him, as I most definitely haven’t. You know that! 

But it’s the nature of the beast.

The inexplicable beast

 

11 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Doesn't matter whether the fee is instalments or not - the bottom line is it's a financial commitment / liability for the club.

For the type of money we've committed to, there has to be an expectation that Brereton, or any other player we sign for that type of money, will walk into to the club, make a huge impact and take the club to another playing level.  If Brereton is no better than Graham and Armstrong (central strikers), we should not have bought him for, IMV, such a ludicrous fee.  As I and many others have said, for that type of money, we could have signed 3 very decent players who would command first team spots and who would have strengthened the team significantly.  Brereton has not strengthened the team, Mowbray can't think he's good enough to start, and therefore in my view is an unfathomable signing.

All could and should.

3 championship ready players to go in a change the side for 6m? You are seemingly stuck in the early 2000s Mercer, or oblivious to the amounts paid for average second tier players in 2018.

Either way, makes no different to the point I’m making. Any judgements made now are barmy, and the “bloated” cost is a fallacy in the current climate. 

[DeeCee]

Agree with that also ? there isn't a better alternative "outstanding candidate" obviously available. And as for a forward thinking chairman........

[Blue blood]

perhaps a lower league big lump of a forward would have suited our tactics more with the likes of Dack, Armstrong, Palmer et al behind him?

Can't wrote Bereton off yet but you have to think that for such a big investment for us he has to be contributing more.

[47er]

9 hours ago, Biz said:

To make any lasting say or judgement of his abilities or the signing overall, of a 19 year old attacker before even a league start? On the sole basis that we haven’t spent that much since we Rhodes? Might be inevitable, but doesn’t mean I can’t point out how I disagree with that mentality.

I know you haven’t said that by the way. I’m sure you’d agree also that 6m - is actually a bargain in the modern climate. If he has a good run of goals - English too, u21... There’s not many top drawer around.

Why hasn't he started?

[Husky]

I remember Mahoney coming on for several minutes against Man City in the FA Cup tie a few years ago and he made one run down the right and you immediately thought 'this guy looks useful/a prospect'.

Unfortunately Brereton has come on a few times now and hasn't yet given us a glimmer of hope yet. He's been a bit Chris Brown if anything. I'm concerned.

[JacknOry]

43 minutes ago, Husky said:

I remember Mahoney coming on for several minutes against Man City in the FA Cup tie a few years ago and he made one run down the right and you immediately thought 'this guy looks useful/a prospect'.

Unfortunately Brereton has come on a few times now and hasn't yet given us a glimmer of hope yet. He's been a bit Chris Brown if anything. I'm concerned.

Mahoney came on in his position. Brereton is not a winger and I really cannot fathom why he is being played there. Palmer showed 10x what he does there. Stick the guy up front so we can see what he can do.