Ben Brereton Diaz

[47er]

This isn't treason, Brereton's not reading this, he's supported by everyone when he plays, everybody wants him to make good BUT ITS JUST NOT HAPPENING.

Meanwhile we are light upfront. That's an understatement, we are totally dependent on a 32 yearly staying fit.

We should not be in this position and the same goes for centre-back. For 7M we could have solved both these problems and added a keeper too!

 

 

[K-Hod]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I'm obviously  not saying I know better than our manager, before people accuse me of being negative or not trusting TM, but based on what I've seen so far, he's very much out of place out wide.....

[Ewood Ace]

Just now, K-Hod said:

I'm obviously  not saying I know better than our manager, before people accuse me of being negative or not trusting TM, but based on what I've seen so far, he's very much out of place out wide.....

Think how bad he must look through the middle

[Admiral Nelsen]

Just now, K-Hod said:

I'm obviously  not saying I know better than our manager, before people accuse me of being negative or not trusting TM, but based on what I've seen so far, he's very much out of place out wide.....

Game of opinions, but I thought he looked very assured in his spell there against Leeds. Go as far as saying mature beyond his years. Some smart runs, holding the ball up and winning free kicks in good areas.

It's obviously fair enough  that people should be able to criticise things without being accused of being doom-mongers or anti-Mowbray, but I'm a little surprised at how quickly some are getting a real downer on this. 19 is a baby in footballing terms, he's being eased into the side when everyone else is playing well. Maybe this will turn out to be a shocking investment, but surely we're still as much in the 'wait and see' period as we were when we first signed him?

[JBiz]

2 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

I'm obviously  not saying I know better than our manager, before people accuse me of being negative or not trusting TM, but based on what I've seen so far, he's very much out of place out wide.....

Said the same about Armstrong last January.

Can I ask a question - how long before you’d cancel and release his contract for being shit? 10 sub appearances? 15?

Do we give him 1 league start and if he doesn’t score we put him out to pasture?

 

[K-Hod]

Just now, Admiral Nelsen said:

Game of opinions, but I thought he looked very assured in his spell there against Leeds. Go as far as saying mature beyond his years. Some smart runs, holding the ball up and winning free kicks in good areas.

It's obviously fair enough  that people should be able to criticise things without being accused of being doom-mongers or anti-Mowbray, but I'm a little surprised at how quickly some are getting a real downer on this. 19 is a baby in footballing terms, he's being eased into the side when everyone else is playing well. Maybe this will turn out to be a shocking investment, but surely we're still as much in the 'wait and see' period as we were when we first signed him?

I actually think Leeds was his best game so far, but I'm really not a fan of 'square pegs in round holes' football-wise. Just get folk in their favoured positions and let them do their thing.

[JBiz]

Just now, Admiral Nelsen said:

 

 I'm a little surprised at how quickly some are getting a real downer on this. 19 is a baby in footballing terms, he's being eased into the side when everyone else is playing well. Maybe this will turn out to be a shocking investment, but surely we're still as much in the 'wait and see' period as we were when we first signed him?

To put it lightly, I agree.

Sense of entitlement with B.B. is another example of the changing nature of “support”

[K-Hod]

9 minutes ago, Biz said:

Said the same about Armstrong last January.

Can I ask a question - how long before you’d cancel and release his contract for being shit? 10 sub appearances? 15?

Do we give him 1 league start and if he doesn’t score we put him out to pasture?

 

Don't be so melodramatic lad.

As I said, ultimately, I just want to see our players playing in their favoured positions, I've always been the same. 

Edited November 2, 2018 by K-Hod

[OJRovers]

Well we certainly got charged a striker’s price for him. 

[Mattyblue]

22 minutes ago, Biz said:

To put it lightly, I agree.

Sense of entitlement with B.B. is another example of the changing nature of “support”

Again, it’s a message board, it’s people’s opinions.

Support is what he needs at the matches - he’s getting it thus far. Now, if in a few weeks the ironic cheers etc. start, then you’d have a point.

Edited November 2, 2018 by Mattyblue

[Dreams of 1995]

£7m is a lot of money for a potentially good winger or a potentially good striker. Mowbray must have seen something because there was a winger being touted from Peteborough for £2.5m that is an actual winger and has scored and created goals for 3 years in a row.

Plus we'd have had £4.5m to add a centre back for the inevitable injury problems we are currently/will continue to struggle with.

I think Premier League clubs sign potential for £7m. Modest Championship clubs with strict wage structures and tight budgets should probably be looking at where such a player plays best and understand what role the £7m player is going to play.

At the moment I simply don't see where Brereton is going to fit in. Armstrong and Bennett on either wing and it looks like Mowbray prefers Conway and Reed over BB also. 

I don't think it's so much a criticism of Brereton but more a confusion at where this £7m has been spent on. Our bench? Depth? We've spent a lot of money on a maybe striker/maybe winger - but even then we don't know which side he prefers. 

A lot of maybes but one thing is for certain - it's cost us millions. 

[JBiz]

22 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Again, it’s a message board, it’s people’s opinions.

Support is what he needs at the matches - he’s getting it thus far. Now, if in a few weeks the ironic cheers etc. start, then you’d have a point.

I’m not criticising people for getting at him, I’m criticising their opinion as rash, ill thought out and brimming with over expectation.

55 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

Don't be so melodramatic lad.

As I said, ultimately, I just want to see our players playing in their favoured positions, I've always been the same. 

So you’d prefer us to change formation to suit him?

[unsall]

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Urgh. This nonsense is going to continue. Hes a centre forward, he was for his previous club. He looks hopeless wide and both Mowbray and Brereton will incur criticism if he continues to play him there and play poorly at that.

Without going over old ground, I just find it amazing that fans like your good self, can question someone who watches him in training every day, of course you could be proved right, but a I would prefer to listen to a decent manager over any fan.

Henry when first signed for Arsenal was a left winger, turned out to be a decent striker.

[unsall]

2 hours ago, Mercer said:

Wow.  Incredible comments.

Did Mowbray watch the lad at Forest before we signed him?

I think this signing has horror story written all over it.

Think most of clips I’ve seen of him at Forest was as a wide striker, how you can judge him after a short time is unbelievable, yep think I'll believe Mowbray before you, but we’ve all got an opinion.

[K-Hod]

16 minutes ago, Biz said:

I’m not criticising people for getting at him, I’m criticising their opinion as rash, ill thought out and brimming with over expectation.

So you’d prefer us to change formation to suit him?

No, I'd prefer him to play up front when he invariably replaces Graham on about 65 minutes each game.

[Ewood Ace]

Just now, unsall said:

Without going over old ground, I just find it amazing that fans like your good self, can question someone who watches him in training every day, of course you could be proved right, but a I would prefer to listen to a decent manager over any fan.

I'm not worried about what he does in training I'm worried about what he does on the pitch and on the pitch he looks lost out wide. We need a striker not another wide option ( we already have Palmer, Rothwell, Bennett, Reed, Conway, and Armstrong who have all played there) so surely this should have been noted before taking such an expensive gamble. 

[Admiral Nelsen]

16 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

£7m is a lot of money for a potentially good winger or a potentially good striker. Mowbray must have seen something because there was a winger being touted from Peteborough for £2.5m that is an actual winger and has scored and created goals for 3 years in a row.

Plus we'd have had £4.5m to add a centre back for the inevitable injury problems we are currently/will continue to struggle with.

I think Premier League clubs sign potential for £7m. Modest Championship clubs with strict wage structures and tight budgets should probably be looking at where such a player plays best and understand what role the £7m player is going to play.

At the moment I simply don't see where Brereton is going to fit in. Armstrong and Bennett on either wing and it looks like Mowbray prefers Conway and Reed over BB also. 

I don't think it's so much a criticism of Brereton but more a confusion at where this £7m has been spent on. Our bench? Depth? We've spent a lot of money on a maybe striker/maybe winger - but even then we don't know which side he prefers. 

A lot of maybes but one thing is for certain - it's cost us millions. 

Wouldn't disagree with this, but there are some pretty big caveats imo.

1. There's a pretty strong chance that (not unreasonably) we can only be spending sums of money like that on players that we have to see as investments. I'd be surprised if we would've been able to spend a similar fee on a couple of players in their late 20s/early 30s.

2. The lad has been here a month. At the moment, Reed is playing out wide and Conway is getting a game. Let's see what we're saying over Christmas/come thing spring/at the end of the season.

As I say, this could be another of those £7million plus transfers that Rovers have got badly wrong. But at the same time I don't think that it's a big deal that he isn't being seen as a starter in a certain position yet either. 

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

He’s a 19 year old prospect, I simply never understand how you assume you know better. There’s giving an opinion, and then there is “@#/? the bed” at every opportunity. It’s 11 months since people said the same about Armstrong. 

 

You considered he has never played out wide for forest? 

 

I genuinely can’t believe this reaction to one snippet or quote, without even the question asked.

 

The main brunt of the criticism isnt about the player anymore, especially after them comments. They are at the manager.

In the summer, we badly needed another main striker. Mowbray was insistent on that. He signed one for 7 million. Now hes pleading that he hasnt got enough strikers, hes resorting to putting a midfielder there when our only main striker isnt available, and even if Brereton is better suited wide and turns out to be really effective there. That would still make him a really expensive luxury we couldnt afford with such a dearth of strikers.

That said, Forest fans were insistent that Brereton cant play wide effectively. What weve seen in his cameos back that up, he looks like a fish out of water.

Armstrong looked at home straight away on the wing. He is smaller, faster and has the skillset of a wide man much more. That said, the way he utilised him last season was very impressive and im not saying I definitely wont be proved wrong. Mowbray does know better than me but in this instance I feel that he is wrong in my opinion.

Some of your comments about support and also about releasing him if he doesnt score in his first start are melodramatic and unconstructive.

[JBiz]

Just now, K-Hod said:

No, I'd prefer him to play up front when he invariably replaces Graham on about 65 minutes each game.

Fair enough but this black and white “square pegs” argument would’ve meant Armstrong would’ve only made 1 appearance this far this season. It’s never that simple.

The system can utilise different types of attackers/players in different berths. It’s obvious to me that Ben offers attributes that can be utilised in different attacking roles.

The lad is 19 ffs, and to get to “horror story” already. Ridiculous

[Al]

14 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

£7m is a lot of money for a potentially good winger or a potentially good striker. Mowbray must have seen something because there was a winger being touted from Peteborough for £2.5m that is an actual winger and has scored and created goals for 3 years in a row.

Plus we'd have had £4.5m to add a centre back for the inevitable injury problems we are currently/will continue to struggle with.

I think Premier League clubs sign potential for £7m. Modest Championship clubs with strict wage structures and tight budgets should probably be looking at where such a player plays best and understand what role the £7m player is going to play.

At the moment I simply don't see where Brereton is going to fit in. Armstrong and Bennett on either wing and it looks like Mowbray prefers Conway and Reed over BB also. 

I don't think it's so much a criticism of Brereton but more a confusion at where this £7m has been spent on. Our bench? Depth? We've spent a lot of money on a maybe striker/maybe winger - but even then we don't know which side he prefers. 

A lot of maybes but one thing is for certain - it's cost us millions. 

That’s a very sensible post. I can understand paying big money for a good footballer to come into the first team squad and immediately improve the team but when you are struggling to get back to the premier league I do not understand lashing out all your spare cash on a player who may or may not come good in a year or two, especially when you don’t know where, or if ever, he is going to fit into the team. We spent a lot of time, effort and money on this lad and don’t appear to have a clue what to do with him. I just hope that somebody at Rovers knows something about him that the fans don’t. It just appears to me that the money could have been better spent but I sincerely hope that I am soon made to eat my words.

[JBiz]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

The main brunt of the criticism isnt about the player anymore, especially after them comments. They are at the manager.

In the summer, we badly needed another main striker. Mowbray was insistent on that. He signed one for 7 million. Now hes pleading that he hasnt got enough strikers, hes resorting to putting a midfielder there when our only main striker isnt available, and even if Brereton is better suited wide and turns out to be really effective there. That would still make him a really expensive luxury we couldnt afford with such a dearth of strikers.

That said, Forest fans were insistent that Brereton cant play wide effectively. What weve seen in his cameos back that up, he looks like a fish out of water.

Armstrong looked at home straight away on the wing. He is smaller, faster and has the skillset of a wide man much more. That said, the way he utilised him last season was very impressive and im not saying I definitely wont be proved wrong. Mowbray does know better than me but in this instance I feel that he is wrong in my opinion.

Some of your comments about support and also about releasing him if he doesnt score in his first start are melodramatic and unconstructive.

1. You talk as if signing someone else to support or backup graham would be simple. When the likes of Paddy Bamford’s costing you 5m + 25k a week, it’s never easy.

2. Pleading he doesn’t have enough strikers? That’s nonsense mate. We only ever play one out and out anyway.

3. The melodramatic comments are just polarised hyperbole. You call him “very poor” I personally think that’s worse.

[roversfan99]

12 minutes ago, unsall said:

Without going over old ground, I just find it amazing that fans like your good self, can question someone who watches him in training every day, of course you could be proved right, but a I would prefer to listen to a decent manager over any fan.

Henry when first signed for Arsenal was a left winger, turned out to be a decent striker.

I dont get why, if the only opinion you are happy to consider is the managers, that you come on a fans messageboard. (This isnt me saying dont come on here before you say it)

Obviously the manager knows more about management than me. He knows more than everyone on here. And no one doubts that. 

Training is different, Ben Gladwin was our best player in training apparently. I judge players on games and have given a detailed reasoning on why I disagree on Brereton playing wide in my post to biz.

[K-Hod]

14 minutes ago, Biz said:

Fair enough but this black and white “square pegs” argument would’ve meant Armstrong would’ve only made 1 appearance this far this season. It’s never that simple.

The system can utilise different types of attackers/players in different berths. It’s obvious to me that Ben offers attributes that can be utilised in different attacking roles.

The lad is 19 ffs, and to get to “horror story” already. Ridiculous

Armstrong is rapid, so it makes sense to stick him out wide in fairness.

None of the other comments can be attributed to me, so I'll leave it there. We'll take this up tomorrow.....

[JBiz]

Just now, K-Hod said:

Armstrong is rapid, so it makes sense to stick him out wide in fairness.

None of the other comments can be attributed to me, so I'll leave it there. We'll take this up tomorrow.....

So Armstrong isn’t an archetypal “square peg” then eh?  

[unsall]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

Said the same about Armstrong last January.

Can I ask a question - how long before you’d cancel and release his contract for being shit? 10 sub appearances? 15?

Do we give him 1 league start and if he doesn’t score we put him out to pasture?

 

You’re right,can’t believe the hysteria on here about the lad, Armstrong thinks he’s an out and out striker but with Rovers playing a fit Graham, we have to play Armstrong/  Brereton as wide strikers, Armstrong destroyed Leeds in the first half playing left of striker, TM system has Graham up top with Dack behind, till that changes they will both have to play wide, not as wingers but wide striker, when Graham’s times come to finish he might get to play in his position, as an out and striker.