Ben Brereton Diaz

[unsall]

3 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

It just lacks credibility if you don’t quote posts explicitly saying they don’t trust Mowbray IMO. You’d never get any sort of action for quoting someone’s opinion... Besides, he’s the most trusted manager we’ve had in years! 

Wasn’t Armstrong £1.75 Million?

No, goes up to 3 mil, same as Brereton could be, so much then going up to 6/7 mil.

[K-Hod]

Just now, unsall said:

No, goes up to 3 mil, same as Brereton could be, so much then going up to 6/7 mil.

Fair one, I stand corrected. ?

[JacknOry]

2 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

There’s a difference between trusting the manager/being delighted with the job he’s doing and questioning individual decisions.

This is what a few do not seem to be able to understand. 

It is extremely frustrating to be shot down with the 'trust Mowbray' each and anytime you dare to say something against one of his/the clubs decisions. The man must be a messiah that never makes a mistake - he will be off to Madrid then I would guess seeing as they are looking for one of the best managers in world football.

For the 9th millionth time - we trust Tony Mowbray has the best interests of the club at heart and is doing his very best to move the club forward. Does this mean that he gets everything right? NO. So he is not to be held responsible for signings such as Whittingham, Gladwin, Hart but should take all the credit for Dack? 

Sick to the teeth of being met by the same tosh every time we talk or question anything.

Lets all hold hands and circle a picture of TM while chanting "Trust Mowbray FFS".

 

[unsall]

19 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

You say that people can’t put forward a decent argument, but whenever people disagree with you, you try and shut them down by calling them negative? Rendering debate pointless? ?‍♂️.

Literally everyone hopes for a win, we all support Rovers. We all trust Mowbray, I haven’t seen a single post saying they don’t. 

Go on then, I’ll bite, what other teams buy players for £7 Million in this league, then don’t play? It is what it is, and he’s clearly got a job on to displace Graham, but we can’t pretend it’s normal to spend that amount of money on players that don’t play all the time....

Why do I try to shut people down, I’m just putting my view across, and then the usual who disagree with me on nearly every point, shout me down and call me positive, but you don’t seem to say anything to them,think you should be a little fairer in your judgement.

[JacknOry]

Just now, unsall said:

Why do I try to shut people down, I’m just putting my view across, and then the usual who disagree with me on nearly every point, shout me down and call me positive, but you don’t seem to say anything to them,think you should be a little fairer in your judgement.

Debate is all about opinions young man, if everybody agreed on everything it would be a very boring world, let alone messageboard. Again you say people shouting you down and calling you 'positive' - who has done either? 

[K-Hod]

10 minutes ago, unsall said:

Why do I try to shut people down, I’m just putting my view across, and then the usual who disagree with me on nearly every point, shout me down and call me positive, but you don’t seem to say anything to them,think you should be a little fairer in your judgement.

Again, I’m going to need examples....

Dismissing people by calling them negative or accusing them of not trusting Mowbray is attempting to shut people down. Can’t people question individual decisions, but trust Mowbray in the bigger picture? Occasionally, even Guardiola will make mistakes, but I’m sure City fans acknowledge those mistakes but trust him overall. Football fans are all the same, to be fair.

I trust Mowbray implicitly and I love the bloke, but sometimes he makes mistakes, as do all of us. That shouldn’t mean I can’t highlight those mistakes, but still not trust him overall. He’s a hell of a lot of big mistakes away from his position being anything like under consideration. And even if it was, nobody on this forum is judge, jury and executioner...

Edited November 3, 2018 by K-Hod

[unsall]

Just now, JacknOry said:

This is what a few do not seem to be able to understand. 

It is extremely frustrating to be shot down with the 'trust Mowbray' each and anytime you dare to say something against one of his/the clubs decisions. The man must be a messiah that never makes a mistake - he will be off to Madrid then I would guess seeing as they are looking for one of the best managers in world football.

For the 9th millionth time - we trust Tony Mowbray has the best interests of the club at heart and is doing his very best to move the club forward. Does this mean that he gets everything right? NO. So he is not to be held responsible for signings such as Whittingham, Gladwin, Hart but should take all the credit for Dack? 

Sick to the teeth of being met by the same tosh every time we talk or question anything.

Lets all hold hands and circle a picture of TM while chanting "Trust Mowbray FFS".

 

Not said trust Mowbray in everything he does, I just thought on the Brereton situation, we should trust him, he doesn’t seem the type of manager to pay up to 6/7 mil on a duffer, I just personally don’t think we have seen enough of him to make any judgement, and till Graham and Dack aren’t doing the business he will have to bide his time, regardless of price.

Now that’s MY opinion, not questioning yours or others,  I respect yours and others opinions, and you should respect mine, but I should be able to post different opinions than you and others.

No need for the sarcastic comments in your last sentence.

 

[unsall]

9 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

Debate is all about opinions young man, if everybody agreed on everything it would be a very boring world, let alone messageboard. Again you say people shouting you down and calling you 'positive' - who has done either? 

Are you for real, you’re saying no one has called me positive, ha ha I give up, enjoy the game.

[Mattyblue]

Pub at 2pm...

’what you think of the team Unsall?’

’No comment. I trust in Mowbray’.

’oh...’

 

[unsall]

1 minute ago, K-Hod said:

Again, I’m going to need examples....

Dismissing people by calling them negative or accusing them of not trusting Mowbray is attempting to shut people down. Can’t people question individual decisions, but trust Mowbray in the bigger picture? Occasionally, even Guardiola will make mistakes, but I’m sure City fans acknowledge those mistakes but trust him overall. Football fans are all the same, to be fair.

I trust Mowbray implicitly and I love the bloke, but sometimes he makes mistakes, as do all of us. That shouldn’t mean I can’t highlight those mistakes, but still not trust him overall. He’s a hell of a lot of big mistakes away from his position being anything like under consideration. And even if it was, nobody on this forum is judge, jury and executioner...

Last point on this, first of all never attempted to shut any one down, so people calling me positive, is that not attempting to shut me down, I don’t think it is, like when I think people being negative isn’t, but you only seem,along with others, to question me, anyway that’s life,enjoy the game,??⚽️

[roversfan99]

4 hours ago, Biz said:

See this is what I mean about the sense of over expectation + entitlement of fans.

We aren’t even talking 3 months.

He still hasn’t started a league game.

It’s under the assumption he’s cost us 5m+ upfront. 

I dont assume that which likely changes my stance from the outset, regardless; The cost is probably going to end up be “cheap” if he has even the most marginal success here (English young strikers aren’t cheap).

Hindsight with injuries to other positions in the squad, is a wonderful thing too.

What about availability, interest and wages of other options like Mcgoldrick, Marriott, Bamford etc? 

We all want him to do well, I just expect it will take time for any teenager to gel into a squad, in a new area, with new facilities and a new manager and teammates. 

 

The thing is, a striker was always the main target in the summer. We spent 7m on a striker, we dont consider the striker to be a striker, and now Mowbray is saying he is a striker short.

Regardless of how successful/unsuccessful he has been or will prove to be wide, I dont see how people pointing out the illogical nature of that process to be "over-entitled."

I appreciate that signing the right striker isnt necessarily easy but I refuse to accept that it is impossible to sign a striker fit for purpose, to challenge Danny Graham. For all intents and purposes we had signed a player to at least provide some form of competition, we could have understood if for now he was Grahams understudy

I also think that @philipl and his claim that there is evidence to show that the choice was Brereton or nothing is totally unsubstantiated.

You mentioned fans being over-entitled and unwilling to allow him time, but the confusion manly stems around how he is being used.

We have a 7m project who has featured occasionally out of position. Of course hes not been signed to be at his maximum levels this season, but firstly im not sure we can really afford to sign such an expensive player solely for the future, and I also dont think that considering he played fairly regularly over a couple of years at Forest, that he wouldnt be able to contribute a lot more now should he play in his natural position.

I expected Graham to be the main man, and Brereton to be initially his understudy, he could learn plenty from Graham, he could provide the fresh legs off the bench or play when Graham is injured etc, and I am aware that there would be an adaptation period regardless.

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Well then fans should take a step back and actually realised what Brereton needs. And stop looking for instant results. 

You are talking alor of rubbish about Brereton's confidence being affected by where he plays. 

What people seem to be of the opinion that Brereton needs is to play in his best position! Something you agreed with strongly last week!

And I would suggest that assuming that a player finding form and confidence more likely and more easy to come by in his natural position is a fairly logical conclusion to come to, but you also make a good point by saying "you are talking alot of rubbish" as if ive judged Brereton personally and made a massive character assassination.

42 minutes ago, unsall said:

Ha ha you won’t convince the usual lot on here Philip, I agree with you 100%, but you  can’t put a decent argument with them, because they won’t change, I mentioned on here yesterday, ask the Sunderland fans what they think of Graham, paid 5 mil, scored 1 goal, but for us he’s been great and still is.

Its all because of the fee, they think he has to start straight away, but while TM plays Graham up front with Dack behind he will have to bide his time,  if he ever decided to go 442 put  Brereton side of Graham, but where does Dack play then, going back to Graham he was 22/23 before he started to bang them in, but you’ve got to have patience, does surprise me the amount of folk on here who dont trust the manager, but mention that on here, and all you get is abuse, onward and upward and let’s hope for a win today.

Again with unsubstantiated claims that there are loads of fans who dont trust Mowbray, without proof, without names, just trying to stir the pot.

[JacknOry]

Just now, unsall said:

Not said trust Mowbray in everything he does, I just thought on the Brereton situation, we should trust him, he doesn’t seem the type of manager to pay up to 6/7 mil on a duffer, I just personally don’t think we have seen enough of him to make any judgement, and till Graham and Dack aren’t doing the business he will have to bide his time, regardless of price.

Now that’s MY opinion, not questioning yours or others,  I respect yours and others opinions, and you should respect mine, but I should be able to post different opinions than you and others.

No need for the sarcastic comments in your last sentence.

 

According to Crimpshine and Pillipl (who you agree 100% with) - Brereton was not even a TM Signing but a boardroom/higher one. 

No we havnt seen enough of him to make a judgement of him - but that is not what people are really debating. We are not judging the player but questioning the transfer, the use of the cash, why a 7 million player is barely being utilised and when he is, it is not in his preferred position.

You are entitled to your opinion just as you say we are but I do not get the feeling you do respect others opinions, simply because anyone that disagrees with you should 'Trust Mowbray' in an attempt to shut them down. Then you keep saying people jump on you, shut you down or god forbid disagree with you without quoting or showing any evidence of this. 

Sums it up when your first post of the day starts like this - targeting others:

"Ha ha you won’t convince the usual lot on here Philip, I agree with you 100%, but you  can’t put a decent argument with them, because they won’t change, I mentioned on here yesterday, ask the Sunderland fans what they think of Graham, paid 5 mil, scored 1 goal, but for us he’s been great and still is.

Its all because of the fee, they think he has to start straight away, but while TM plays Graham up front with Dack behind he will have to bide his time,  if he ever decided to go 442 put  Brereton side of Graham, but where does Dack play then, going back to Graham he was 22/23 before he started to bang them in, but you’ve got to have patience, does surprise me the amount of folk on here who dont trust the manager, but mention that on here, and all you get is abuse, onward and upward and let’s hope for a win today."

 

 

[unsall]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

Pub at 2pm...

’what you think of the team Unsall?’

’No comment. I trust in Mowbray’.

’oh...’

 

Just up at Brockhall,talking to TM, you would not believe the team, this MB in just over 2 hours will go mental. 

[JacknOry]

5 minutes ago, unsall said:

Are you for real, you’re saying no one has called me positive, ha ha I give up, enjoy the game.

Then quote some of them doing it.

[Mattyblue]

Mods... assemble!

[unsall]

Just now, JacknOry said:

According to Crimpshine and Pillipl (who you agree 100% with) - Brereton was not even a TM Signing but a boardroom/higher one. 

No we havnt seen enough of him to make a judgement of him - but that is not what people are really debating. We are not judging the player but questioning the transfer, the use of the cash, why a 7 million player is barely being utilised and when he is, it is not in his preferred position.

You are entitled to your opinion just as you say we are but I do not get the feeling you do respect others opinions, simply because anyone that disagrees with you should 'Trust Mowbray' in an attempt to shut them down. Then you keep saying people jump on you, shut you down or god forbid disagree with you without quoting or showing any evidence of this. 

Sums it up when your first post of the day starts like this - targeting others:

"Ha ha you won’t convince the usual lot on here Philip, I agree with you 100%, but you  can’t put a decent argument with them, because they won’t change, I mentioned on here yesterday, ask the Sunderland fans what they think of Graham, paid 5 mil, scored 1 goal, but for us he’s been great and still is.

Its all because of the fee, they think he has to start straight away, but while TM plays Graham up front with Dack behind he will have to bide his time,  if he ever decided to go 442 put  Brereton side of Graham, but where does Dack play then, going back to Graham he was 22/23 before he started to bang them in, but you’ve got to have patience, does surprise me the amount of folk on here who dont trust the manager, but mention that on here, and all you get is abuse, onward and upward and let’s hope for a win today."

 

 

Ha ha you crack me up, let’s just enjoy the game 3 points would be nice, but not certain ?⚽️

[roversfan99]

Just now, unsall said:

Just up at Brockhall,talking to TM, you would not believe the team, this MB in just over 2 hours will go mental. 

Seemingly now in the role of Mowbrays assistant manager feeding back cryptic, vague teasers Alan Nixon style that could never be proven/disproven regardless. May I ask, presuming the team line up is as unbelievable as you say, why fans wouldnt be instantly concerned about it.

Just here solely on the wind up it seems now.

[unsall]

Just now, JacknOry said:

Then quote some of them doing it.

Well I’ll ask you,do you think I’m positive?

[chaddyrovers]

5 hours ago, Biz said:

See this is what I mean about the sense of over expectation + entitlement of fans.

We aren’t even talking 3 months.

He still hasn’t started a league game.

It’s under the assumption he’s cost us 5m+ upfront. 

I dont assume that which likely changes my stance from the outset, regardless; The cost is probably going to end up be “cheap” if he has even the most marginal success here (English young strikers aren’t cheap).

Hindsight with injuries to other positions in the squad, is a wonderful thing too.

What about availability, interest and wages of other options like Mcgoldrick, Marriott, Bamford etc? 

We all want him to do well, I just expect it will take time for any teenager to gel into a squad, in a new area, with new facilities and a new manager and teammates. 

 

I agree with your 1st point. 

Marriott's wages were a problem. McGoldrick could have been a decent signing but he is in his 30's, Bamford isn't a number 9 striker

3 hours ago, OJRovers said:

A lot of people forgetting that he has come on to directly replace Graham, at Bristol City, played centrally and was awful. Didn't hold the ball up and we ended up losing heavily. I think after that, Mowbray hasn't trusted him to do the same job.

Brereton isn't the same type of player as Graham so we are going to have change our style. Said this when we signed him he wasn't a like for like replacement for Graham. Mowbray had spoken of changing our style to more of passing style. 

4 hours ago, arbitro said:

I really don't get the describing of Brereton as a long term project. Long term projects are kids we sign on scholarships at sixteen and invest lots of time in them. For a Championship club with massive debts like ours paying a reported £7m should have bought us a player who can fit straight into the team in a position which he was bought to play in.

The fee was nothing to do with him but he doesn't seem to be handling the pressure too well judging from his body language when he does get some game time.

He is 19 years and need time to develop and understand the ways our team plays under Mowbray. This take times. The club debt shouldn't be any kind of factor in judging Brereton at all. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Crimpshrine said:

I was talking to a Rovers' scout a couple of weeks ago.

His remit is to report only on young (23 or below) British players who are proven at their particular age levels ( ideally international appearances),  will accept a reasonable wage ( he didn't know what this figure was ) and will increase in value over a 2 year period. That's it - Rovers will not permanently sign anyone who does not fit this description. That is what he understands ( not sure if Rothwell or Bell fit completely !)

 He was not aware of any Rovers scout watching Brereton or any reports sent directly to Mowbray - but he admits he wouldn't necessarily know this anyway but sometimes he hears things on the scouting grapevine.

He thinks the fact that Liverpool, Man Utd and Chelsea definitely had scouts watching  Brereton last season made it a bit of a coup for Rovers to get him but he was not necessarily Mowbray's choice. He just ticked all the boxes and was seen as an investment.

Loans and free signings are entirely in Mowbray's hands but permanent signings, so he has been told,  could be more of a club decision based on the above.  

firstly, thankyou for sharing this info. 

I mostly agree with this remit and building a young and exciting who will improving and increase in value. Plus I think it suits Mowbray's coaching staff.

on Brereton's scouting report wouldn't someone like our Chief scout Stuart Harvey and Mowbray's number 2 Mark Venus not done the scouting on Brereton?  

[JacknOry]

Just now, unsall said:

Well I’ll ask you,do you think I’m positive?

Wait a minute, is this some kind of kids joke where you trick me into calling you positive so you can post it as your only example?

[Crimpshrine]

Just now, unsall said:

Not said trust Mowbray in everything he does, I just thought on the Brereton situation, we should trust him, he doesn’t seem the type of manager to pay up to 6/7 mil on a duffer, I just personally don’t think we have seen enough of him to make any judgement, and till Graham and Dack aren’t doing the business he will have to bide his time, regardless of price.

Now that’s MY opinion, not questioning yours or others,  I respect yours and others opinions, and you should respect mine, but I should be able to post different opinions than you and others.

No need for the sarcastic comments in your last sentence.

 

I think you are right with this assessment. Maybe it wasn't his decision.

[unsall]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Seemingly now in the role of Mowbrays assistant manager feeding back cryptic, vague teasers Alan Nixon style that could never be proven/disproven regardless. May I ask, presuming the team line up is as unbelievable as you say, why fans wouldnt be instantly concerned about it.

Just here solely on the wind up it seems now.

That was in response to Marty’s sarcastic comments, what’s wrong with people on here.

please don’t mention wind ups it was a joke,got 48 ban for supposedly winding people up, why didn’t you mention Matty comments, even though to me it was a joke.

[unsall]

Just now, JacknOry said:

Wait a minute, is this some kind of kids joke where you trick me into calling you positive so you can post it as your only example?

Ha ha nearly got you?

[roversfan99]

2 hours ago, Crimpshrine said:

I was talking to a Rovers' scout a couple of weeks ago.

His remit is to report only on young (23 or below) British players who are proven at their particular age levels ( ideally international appearances),  will accept a reasonable wage ( he didn't know what this figure was ) and will increase in value over a 2 year period. That's it - Rovers will not permanently sign anyone who does not fit this description. That is what he understands ( not sure if Rothwell or Bell fit completely !)

 He was not aware of any Rovers scout watching Brereton or any reports sent directly to Mowbray - but he admits he wouldn't necessarily know this anyway but sometimes he hears things on the scouting grapevine.

He thinks the fact that Liverpool, Man Utd and Chelsea definitely had scouts watching  Brereton last season made it a bit of a coup for Rovers to get him but he was not necessarily Mowbray's choice. He just ticked all the boxes and was seen as an investment.

Loans and free signings are entirely in Mowbray's hands but permanent signings, so he has been told,  could be more of a club decision based on the above.  

If this is true, then it isnt a system I agree with. I dont think that its healthy or often constructive for someone aside from the manager to make the final decision on players. I disprove of Director of Footballs and the like for the very same reason.

We needed a striker, and signed one for a lot of money with a burgoning reputation. Its a big if but if hes been signed above Mowbray, then that would make sense in that he seemingly has some belief in his potential but he doesnt trust him or see him as a player in the position that he was signed in. Leaving us short up front still and with a 7m player he isnt entirely sure what to do with at the moment.

52 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

There’s a difference between trusting the manager/being delighted with the job he’s doing and questioning individual decisions.

Exactly. When Alex Ferguson signed Bebe, Kleberson or Djemba Djemba, im sure fans still trusted him whilst they slagged off them individual signings.

40 minutes ago, unsall said:

Why do I try to shut people down, I’m just putting my view across, and then the usual who disagree with me on nearly every point, shout me down and call me positive, but you don’t seem to say anything to them,think you should be a little fairer in your judgement.

Half the time, it isnt putting your view across. Thats what people are encouraging, but rather than give your view, you say "trust Mowbray" which is implying that any opinion you, I or any other fan holds is inferior.

Please can you quote people calling you positive or stop saying it ad nauseum.

[chaddyrovers]

12 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

 

I expected Graham to be the main man, and Brereton to be initially his understudy, he could learn plenty from Graham, he could provide the fresh legs off the bench or play when Graham is injured etc, and I am aware that there would be an adaptation period regardless.

What people seem to be of the opinion that Brereton needs is to play in his best position! Something you agreed with strongly last week!

And I would suggest that assuming that a player finding form and confidence more likely and more easy to come by in his natural position is a fairly logical conclusion to come to, but you also make a good point by saying "you are talking alot of rubbish" as if ive judged Brereton personally and made a massive character assassination.

 

Yes Brereton can still learn from Graham even if he is playing as wide forward. 

Have I said that Ive changed my opinion where he should play? no I haven't but we have heard where Brereton see him playing at the minute under Mowbray

2 minutes ago, Crimpshrine said:

I think you are right with this assessment. Maybe it wasn't his decision.

I think it was Mowbray choice to go for Brereton when Brereton came available just before the deadline