Ben Brereton Diaz

[darrenrover]

16 minutes ago, S8 & Blue said:

You should be a scout mate. Would save clubs a lot of time and money. He’s played less than two games worth of football for us. No league starts. You haven’t even seen them all.

By your own logic if he has an impressive 30 minutes soon then he’s undoubtably world class. Exciting!

 

edit -

In fact, for my own amusement, a cursory search showed that you thought “the jury is out” on Dack in September ‘17, after a similar amount of minutes as Brereton has had. Maybe your powers to instantly spot a good player are on the wane? 

Stuart Harvey is 'our spotter of talent' or to quote his actual title 'Manager of player recruitment'. I've a bit of personal 'axe to grind' but would have to say, I doff my hat because I like the look of what has generally been brought to the Ewood table in the past few months. Reed and Rothwell particularly and I think Jack Rodwell could really be a real master stroke of a signing in time. I'm unsure about Palmer up to press but Brereton is a no brainer for me.

My point is they are all surely positives compared with the past and if we're really still in the mix at the end of December for the top 2, never mind play offs, we need to go for it and I believe Venkys will back it too. All conjecture I know, time for a line in the sand for me. Yeh, back the lads in blue and white blah, blah but in truth, that's what I (and we) have always done.

COYB!!

[unsall]

34 minutes ago, S8 & Blue said:

You should be a scout mate. Would save clubs a lot of time and money. He’s played less than two games worth of football for us. No league starts. You haven’t even seen them all.

By your own logic if he has an impressive 30 minutes soon then he’s undoubtably world class. Exciting!

 

edit -

In fact, for my own amusement, a cursory search showed that you thought “the jury is out” on Dack in September ‘17, after a similar amount of minutes as Brereton has had. Maybe your powers to instantly spot a good player are on the wane? 

Just now, darrenrover said:

Stuart Harvey is 'our spotter of talent' or to quote his actual title 'Manager of player recruitment'. I've a bit of personal 'axe to grind' but would have to say, I doff my hat because I like the look of what has generally been brought to the Ewood table in the past few months. Reed and Rothwell particularly and I think Jack Rodwell could really be a real master stroke of a signing in time. I'm unsure about Palmer up to press but Brereton is a no brainer for me.

My point is they are all surely positives compared with the past and if we're really still in the mix at the end of December for the top 2, never mind play offs, we need to go for it and I believe Venkys will back it too. All conjecture I know, time for a line in the sand for me. Yeh, back the lads in blue and white blah, blah but in truth, that's what I (and we) have always done.

COYB!!

Totally agree with all points?

[unsall]

37 minutes ago, S8 & Blue said:

You should be a scout mate. Would save clubs a lot of time and money. He’s played less than two games worth of football for us. No league starts. You haven’t even seen them all.

By your own logic if he has an impressive 30 minutes soon then he’s undoubtably world class. Exciting!

 

edit -

In fact, for my own amusement, a cursory search showed that you thought “the jury is out” on Dack in September ‘17, after a similar amount of minutes as Brereton has had. Maybe your powers to instantly spot a good player are on the wane? 

Yeah find it strange how anybody can say either way on Brereton after a couple of games, but I tend to lean towards Mowbray before people on here who have already made their minds up that he a duffer, strange world.

[unsall]

3 minutes ago, darrenrover said:

Stuart Harvey is 'our spotter of talent' or to quote his actual title 'Manager of player recruitment'. I've a bit of personal 'axe to grind' but would have to say, I doff my hat because I like the look of what has generally been brought to the Ewood table in the past few months. Reed and Rothwell particularly and I think Jack Rodwell could really be a real master stroke of a signing in time. I'm unsure about Palmer up to press but Brereton is a no brainer for me.

My point is they are all surely positives compared with the past and if we're really still in the mix at the end of December for the top 2, never mind play offs, we need to go for it and I believe Venkys will back it too. All conjecture I know, time for a line in the sand for me. Yeh, back the lads in blue and white blah, blah but in truth, that's what I (and we) have always done.

COYB!!

Correct, obviously we can’t have everyone a success, but most of the signings are pretty decent, and hopefully Brereton will prove a few wrong.

But let’s face it nobody, especially on here as a fan should be making any judgment on a player who has made a couple of sub appearances.

[bazza]

9 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

This constant crap about trusting Mowbray in an attempt to defuse any conversation on him is really counter productive.

Ben Brereton will be judged on what Ben Brereton does or doesnt do. (Obviously factors such as playing out of position will be taken into consideration) Ben Brereton wont and shouldnt be judged based on Mowbrays record prior to this season because it has nothing to do with it. Ben Brereton wont and shouldnt be judged based on what Mowbray says in his interviews either.

And Ben Brereton shouldn't be judged on a 7 million transfer fee either. Oh how I wish that the fee had remained "undisclosed".

We haven't seen much of him but against QPR he gave me a glimpse of his assets; height, strength, speed, two feet and, most of all, a footballing brain. I would hazard a guess that less than 40% of footballers have such a brain. Don't ask me to go into detail. I'm not a football scout.

I think we have a gem in Ben. He will prove me right and all of us on this MB will be delighted.  

[tomphil]

3 minutes ago, darrenrover said:

Stuart Harvey is 'our spotter of talent' or to quote his actual title 'Manager of player recruitment'. I've a bit of personal 'axe to grind' but would have to say, I doff my hat because I like the look of what has generally been brought to the Ewood table in the past few months. Reed and Rothwell particularly and I think Jack Rodwell could really be a real master stroke of a signing in time. I'm unsure about Palmer up to press but Brereton is a no brainer for me.

My point is they are all surely positives compared with the past and if we're really still in the mix at the end of December for the top 2, never mind play offs, we need to go for it and I believe Venkys will back it too. All conjecture I know, time for a line in the sand for me. Yeh, back the lads in blue and white blah, blah but in truth, that's what I (and we) have always done.

COYB!!

You can never tell with the Vs if they'd back it or not certainly not with big signings but there always remains possibility of decent loans they'll sanction.

Personally i'd be more inclined to think BB is signed up to fill the inevitable Dack void it's been alluded to in certain quarters and by Mowbray himself. Obviously he must have a different formation in mind but I don't see them shelling out big cash again on a player yet. Sooner or later there'll be a 15/20 million one out and in will step Brereton until he's ready to be cashed in. Maybe they'll shell out again in advance to replace him in a similar way but I think this might all be part of a new plan to run things and keep some money coming in to pay the bills, they've speculated to accumulate this summer for once.

Not really a bad plan if it works and the money can at last be termed investment but a hell of a lot depends on this signing to get that ball rolling.

[roversfan99]

7 minutes ago, unsall said:

Contradicting yourself there my friend, saying Pep,Fergie, Jose etc signed duds, which they have done, but I dont think their judgment came into question, so why should Mowbrays, did you think Kenny had lost it signing Dickens, no you didn’t.

Anyway if you aren’t that keen on TM who would your choice be to take us to the next level, should be interesting.

They did about the individual players. When Ferguson signed Djemba Djemba and when Jose signed Steve Sidwell, the fans undoubtedly questioned why their otherwise successful managers had signed those individual players, just like when Mowbray signed Ben Gladwin.

I think that Mercers opinions on Mowbray and Brereton are very harsh but at least they are explained and constructed, whereas your arguments are not, points such as "Parson agrees with me" "stop moaning for the sake of it" "I'll trust Mowbray more than you" and "youre never happy."

And you still havent said what Waggott has done to turn the club around personally. "Best chief executive since Williams" is not only the lowest benchmark you could ever set, but totally unsubstantiated. Mowbray, yes I agree hes turned the direction of the club around.

[pjt]

1 hour ago, Mercer said:

'Beauty is in the eye of the beholder' !

What did Kenny see in Matt Dickens, what did Brian Kidd see in Ashley Ward, what did Roy see in Christian Dailly, what did Souey see in Grabbi?  Dickens was signed for a song but the other three cost big money and didn't cut it for Rovers.

Let's face it, all managers sign their fair share of duds including the likes of Fergie, Mourinho, Pep etc.

If Mowbray and his cohorts did identify Brereton and were solely responsible for his signing then their judgement may very soon come into question.

Matt Dickens could shout "Clear your lines!" really loudly.  Don't know if that was a good enough reason to sign him though.

 

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, bazza said:

And Ben Brereton shouldn't be judged on a 7 million transfer fee either. Oh how I wish that the fee had remained "undisclosed".

We haven't seen much of him but against QPR he gave me a glimpse of his assets; height, strength, speed, two feet and, most of all, a footballing brain. I would hazard a guess that less than 40% of footballers have such a brain. Don't ask me to go into detail. I'm not a football scout.

I think we have a gem in Ben. He will prove me right and all of us on this MB will be delighted.  

I think in the last week or 2 most people have agreed that he has shown glimmers of promise, hence the debate moving very much on to how to use him to get the best of him, with the common conclusion that it is in his natural position as a central striker.

Its impossible to remove the fee from the judgement whether people like it or not, simply because there is always the opportunity cost to consider, what else could we have got, has he fulfilled what we needed. Quotes from Mowbray saying we are lacking a striker when the one hes signed for lots of money has been earmarked as a wide man are always going to provoke a reaction. Then he played as a striker and had his most promising cameo with work in central areas.

The last point you are totally right, no matter what rubbish people say contrary, everyone will be happy if he does well.

[darrenrover]

2 minutes ago, tomphil said:

You can never tell with the Vs if they'd back it or not certainly not with big signings but there always remains possibility of decent loans they'll sanction.

Personally i'd be more inclined to think BB is signed up to fill the inevitable Dack void it's been alluded to in certain quarters and by Mowbray himself. Obviously he must have a different formation in mind but I don't see them shelling out big cash again on a player yet. Sooner or later there'll be a 15/20 million one out and in will step Brereton until he's ready to be cashed in. Maybe they'll shell out again in advance to replace him in a similar way but I think this might all be part of a new plan to run things and keep some money coming in to pay the bills, they've speculated to accumulate this summer for once.

Not really a bad plan if it works and the money can at last be termed investment but a hell of a lot depends on this signing to get that ball rolling.

There are also one or two other potential 'gems' that aren't just quite ready yet within the 'reserves'. IMO of course.

[den]

22 minutes ago, unsall said:

 

But let’s face it nobody, especially on here as a fan should be making any judgment on a player who has made a couple of sub appearances.

Well it’s a bit more than a couple of sub appearances, but why not? How long should they wait  - what’s the magic number of playing minutes? 

im quite happy to say I haven’t seen any qualities at all so far.  Which qualities have you seen? 

[Sparks Rover]

He reminds me of a young Diego Costa

[SBlue]

28 minutes ago, bazza said:

And Ben Brereton shouldn't be judged on a 7 million transfer fee either. Oh how I wish that the fee had remained "undisclosed".

We haven't seen much of him but against QPR he gave me a glimpse of his assets; height, strength, speed, two feet and, most of all, a footballing brain. I would hazard a guess that less than 40% of footballers have such a brain. Don't ask me to go into detail. I'm not a football scout.

I think we have a gem in Ben. He will prove me right and all of us on this MB will be delighted.  

In the interests of balance, it’s far, far too early to say that too.

For what it is worth though, I have that inkling as well and will 100% back him to the hilt.

I do feel he’s going to have his work cut out to impress some people after the way it has all started, but similarly my positivity is making me easy to impress and quite forgiving.

Let’s just wait and see and enjoy the ride.

[SBlue]

6 minutes ago, den said:

Well it’s a bit more than a couple of sub appearances, but why not? How long should they wait  - what’s the magic number of playing minutes? 

im quite happy to say I haven’t seen any qualities at all so far.  Which qualities have you seen? 

Come on now. If he was an academy lad would you say the same?

[Hasta]

I saw my first positive attribute on a Saturday. He's direct. He got the ball, wanted something to happen and drove in to the penalty area forcing the penalty when others would have stayed wide waiting for support.

However he still doesn't look a natural dribbler and don't show enough to change my opinion of what he has co tributes so far. 

For the record, you can actually think that Mowbray is doing a great job and think BB has been poor so far. The opinions aren't linked.

[unsall]

20 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

They did about the individual players. When Ferguson signed Djemba Djemba and when Jose signed Steve Sidwell, the fans undoubtedly questioned why their otherwise successful managers had signed those individual players, just like when Mowbray signed Ben Gladwin.

I think that Mercers opinions on Mowbray and Brereton are very harsh but at least they are explained and constructed, whereas your arguments are not, points such as "Parson agrees with me" "stop moaning for the sake of it" "I'll trust Mowbray more than you" and "youre never happy."

And you still havent said what Waggott has done to turn the club around personally. "Best chief executive since Williams" is not only the lowest benchmark you could ever set, but totally unsubstantiated. Mowbray, yes I agree hes turned the direction of the club around.

Who do you think negotiates the transfers, who sorts out the extended contracts, who gets the nod off Mowbray and player recruitment guy/scouts and then try and make it happen, who speaks with owners to try and persuade them to come up with the money, and a small detail last Sat who decided to push the QPR fans as far away as possible from the pitch, also who,with Greg Coar,marketing guy, gets all these extra sponsors to bring in extra revenue.

Who the hell  pays for all these contracts/transfers, could understand if we are top of league for season ticket prices, but we are somewhere in the middle.

All I here is surcharges on match days, which were already in place before he came, booting fans out the Darwen end, which I agree with and today half season ticket prices, saying they are too dear, It’s a football club,a business it’s not a charity.

So far think he’s doing a decent job, best since Williams, interacts with fans as well.

Him and Mowbray have turned the club round, and touch wood, hopefully the owners look like they actually trust them, which hasn’t happened for a long time, just can’t understand people saying otherwise after the complete dross we’ve had over the last few years.

Btw, you even got a decent firework display on Sat, can’t remember that happening before.

[47er]

6 hours ago, unsall said:

Try looking in the season ticket section, Parson agrees with me re Waggot, best Chief ex since Williams, turned club round, people like you and the rest seem to moan in every topic just for the sake of arguing, you’re never happy, decent average half season tickets, I honestly don’t know what you lot would be like if we were bottom of the league with a crap manager and Chief ex, don’t be saying Parson is different from me because he isn’t, he might not bite and shout back at you and others, but he’s a very positive person who thinks someone is eventually turning the club round, after years of neglect.

I would think Parson had his own views and wouldn't be quoting you in support of them!

I wouldn't be arguing you two and Chaddy had a little "gang" either like you do.

I'm sick of hearing who's labelled positive and who's been  labelled negative.

I'm sick of hearing that you are a passionate Rovers supporter. We all are, that's why we on here!

Why don't you take a step back, refresh, rethink your approach and come back with something engaging to say?

[roversfan99]

19 minutes ago, unsall said:

Who do you think negotiates the transfers, who sorts out the extended contracts, who gets the nod off Mowbray and player recruitment guy/scouts and then try and make it happen, who speaks with owners to try and persuade them to come up with the money, and a small detail last Sat who decided to push the QPR fans as far away as possible from the pitch, also who,with Greg Coar,marketing guy, gets all these extra sponsors to bring in extra revenue.

Who the hell  pays for all these contracts/transfers, could understand if we are top of league for season ticket prices, but we are somewhere in the middle.

All I here is surcharges on match days, which were already in place before he came, booting fans out the Darwen end, which I agree with and today half season ticket prices, saying they are too dear, It’s a football club,a business it’s not a charity.

So far think he’s doing a decent job, best since Williams, interacts with fans as well.

Him and Mowbray have turned the club round, and touch wood, hopefully the owners look like they actually trust them, which hasn’t happened for a long time, just can’t understand people saying otherwise after the complete dross we’ve had over the last few years.

Btw, you even got a decent firework display on Sat, can’t remember that happening before.

Waggott came in after wed just won 6 in a row last christmas, Mowbray is the one who had already charged us forward and his results are tangible proof of that, he has already made plenty of signings including Dack, nothing to me suggests Waggott has improved that side of things individually.

In terms of decisions we know he has made. His increased pricing strategy has obviously not been the success he intended it to be otherwise we wouldnt have fallen below his own targets. No one is asking for them to be given away so thats a meaningless comeback. The fact that there were neither home fans (something I disagree with) nor home fans in the lower tier of the Darwen End had a negative impact on the atmosphere in my opinion. Surcharges existing in the past is irrelevant, hes chose to keep them thus is open to judgement on them. His choice is to milk the fans who will go anyway rather than pursue getting increased attendances. Thats an approach thats up to him but one he will be judged on. You think thats a good idea but I disagree.

My main point is that its unfair on Mowbray to couple him and Waggott together in praise for our recent resurgance. Mowbray had been at the club for nearly a year before Waggott showed up, which was when Mowbrays work was really starting to bear fruit, hence the 6 wins in a row. Saying they are both responsible is disrespectful and unfair to Mowbray IMO, only Mowbray deserves the praise for that.

[unsall]

29 minutes ago, 47er said:

I would think Parson had his own views and wouldn't be quoting you in support of them!

I wouldn't be arguing you two and Chaddy had a little "gang" either like you do.

I'm sick of hearing who's labelled positive and who's been  labelled negative.

I'm sick of hearing that you are a passionate Rovers supporter. We all are, that's why we on here!

Why don't you take a step back, refresh, rethink your approach and come back with something engaging to say?

Here we go again, you’re basically sick of anyone who disagrees with what you say, few more coming on here  tonight who’s sick of hearing the same old from you, and others, I know you’ve 11,000 plus posts, it’s like you just want to shout everybody down and hope they go away.

[unsall]

28 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Waggott came in after wed just won 6 in a row last christmas, Mowbray is the one who had already charged us forward and his results are tangible proof of that, he has already made plenty of signings including Dack, nothing to me suggests Waggott has improved that side of things individually.

In terms of decisions we know he has made. His increased pricing strategy has obviously not been the success he intended it to be otherwise we wouldnt have fallen below his own targets. No one is asking for them to be given away so thats a meaningless comeback. The fact that there were neither home fans (something I disagree with) nor home fans in the lower tier of the Darwen End had a negative impact on the atmosphere in my opinion. Surcharges existing in the past is irrelevant, hes chose to keep them thus is open to judgement on them. His choice is to milk the fans who will go anyway rather than pursue getting increased attendances. Thats an approach thats up to him but one he will be judged on. You think thats a good idea but I disagree.

My main point is that its unfair on Mowbray to couple him and Waggott together in praise for our recent resurgance. Mowbray had been at the club for nearly a year before Waggott showed up, which was when Mowbrays work was really starting to bear fruit, hence the 6 wins in a row. Saying they are both responsible is disrespectful and unfair to Mowbray IMO, only Mowbray deserves the praise for that.

Just told you what Waggot does, and you never mention anything, only the things you don’t like, like Ive said Waggot and Mowbray have turned the club round, let’s hope it continues.

[Mercer]

2 hours ago, S8 & Blue said:

You should be a scout mate. Would save clubs a lot of time and money. He’s played less than two games worth of football for us. No league starts. You haven’t even seen them all.

By your own logic if he has an impressive 30 minutes soon then he’s undoubtably world class. Exciting!

 

edit -

In fact, for my own amusement, a cursory search showed that you thought “the jury is out” on Dack in September ‘17, after a similar amount of minutes as Brereton has had. Maybe your powers to instantly spot a good player are on the wane? 

Over a third of the season gone, a £7million deal and no league starts.  Says it all.  Madness.

Dack cost £750,000 not £7,000,000 - bit of a difference!

[47er]

24 minutes ago, unsall said:

Here we go again, you’re basically sick of anyone who disagrees with what you say, few more coming on here  tonight who’s sick of hearing the same old from you, and others, I know you’ve 11,000 plus posts, it’s like you just want to shout everybody down and hope they go away.

11000 posts over more than a decade! You'll be passing me  soon the rate you're going.

And they'll all be the same, about which little gang is trying to shout you down, you poor persecuted little paranoid.

I have very reasoned exchanges with people I sometimes disagree with, Ironically Parson Blue would be one!

You don't have any civilised discussion with anyone. I imagine you screaming at the keyboard while you type.

I've got you on ignore but you keep getting quoted unfortunately, I'm going to resist the temptation to civilly disagree with you from now on and simply ignore you as you deserve.

You have become a serial pest.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

As a bit of an old fashioned 4-4-2 chap, I could imagine Brereton and Armstrong making a very useful front two partnership.  Shame that will never get utilised. 

[chaddyrovers]

5 hours ago, Mercer said:

 I've seen Brereton 'live' on several occasions in a Rovers' shirt and I have been underwhelmed - I have seen nothing in the lad to suggest he is anything other than a 'Joe Average'.  Nothing would delight me more if he had turned out to be a second Alan Shearer and he had shot us to the top of the Championship.

  No I haven't seen him in every Rovers game and I don't think you have either.

 Chaddy, it is you who said he was part of England U19s that won the World Cup.  I was merely asking you how many games he started and how many goals he had scored which I felt you could easily answer being the huge football fan you are.

 

Ive seen every game in played in apart from the Portsmouth cup game, whether its live or on the Rovers player on the Sunday. So I do see every game. 

On Brereton performances for the under 19 games. He played in all games starting 3 games scoring 3 goals

https://www.transfermarkt.com/ben-brereton/nationalmannschaft/spieler/426192/verein_id/21340

 

[Mercer]

6 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Ive seen every game in played in apart from the Portsmouth cup game, whether its live or on the Rovers player on the Sunday. So I do see every game. 

 

 

I am talking about being at the ground watching the match.  It is only there where you can see a player's full contribution including movement (running the channels, dragging defenders out of position, tracking back), positions taken-up and general reading of the game etc etc - you don't see such aspects watching on a screen.

Edited November 5, 2018 by Mercer