Ben Brereton Diaz

[chaddyrovers]

29 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Agreed, that is an obvious concern especially with the partnership he has with Dack.

I do think that if and when Mowbray does select Brereton over Graham, he needs to be trusted to do more in central areas. It can be frustrating to see someone lining up a cross, as happened on more than one occasion yesterday, with our striker stood near the touchline, presumably on management instructions as another cross doesnt end on a Rovers head/foot.

Graham will be back on form soon, hes had a couple of poor games in a row but has been excellent this season and has been written off prematurely before. No player can maintain form for an entire season.

And you speak as if scoring goals is a minor justification towards a starting spot. All Dack is doing at the moment is scoring as his all round game has dipped, and most of his goals this season have been tap ins, but no matter how bad the rest of his game is, if he keeps scoring, he is undroppable. I find it very strange how underestimated scoring goals have become in judging performances!

I don't think that playing the most long balls in the league suits either of them to be honest. Graham has in many games made the best of a bad situation, but we need to be far more inventive in terms of getting the ball forward. The stats I have quoted in the Rotherham thread show that it has to be an area, both for Mowbray and the players to look towards working on. We have plenty of inventive attacking players that play between the lines, Lenihan has been a colossus lately but he is as prone as anyone to the aimless hoof from back to front, we need more composure to play the ball to feet, and we need to play at a far higher tempo, from the start especially at home. I also think that Mowbrays selection of attacking players (Palmer and Armstrong) on both sides is one that should be repeated, again especially at home.

You mention Dack form has dipped. That's down to more teams marking him tightly and allowing him no space. Teams at this level will do this. Sheffield Wednesday, QPR, Rotherham 1st half did it. I mention this again yesterday to the people I go with about playing Dack wide right for a spell and move Palmer inside for 5 or 10 mins. to give the opposite team a different problem.

I did like the selection of Palmer and Armstrong wide. I wouldn't play Palmer at Preston but his last 2 performances have been improvement. Nyambe must start at Preston away and we need Mulgrew and Williams back for that game. 

27 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Then in that case he isn't going to get in the team as a striker. We are hardly going to change the way that we have been playing (and having success) just to suit one player. If he want's to start through the middle then he is going to have to adapt his game. It's a lot easier for one player to adapt his game than a whole team having to adapt their style just to suit one player.

Maybe not in your team would be in my team now. We need to play the ball better and into the box better. Brereton isn't going to hold the ball but He will make little runs in behind defences and if we play the right through balls to him, Dack and Armstrong we will score goals. Its the long high balls I don't like us playing. Its a waste tbh

[chaddyrovers]

7 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Graham is nearing the end of his career.

As for Brereton, yes, you have to play to a player's strengths but you don't sign players who don't match your vision about style of play!

I am fully aware of Graham age thanks pal. 

Mowbray has talk about change our style of play and I expect to see this over the next 18 months. A much more of passing attacking style

5 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Graham was once very mobile - as you get older, or injuries take their toll, you have to change your game.

Big Al did the lot until his final years.

I know Graham was. 

[roversfan99]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

You mention Dack form has dipped. That's down to more teams marking him tightly and allowing him no space. Teams at this level will do this. Sheffield Wednesday, QPR, Rotherham 1st half did it. I mention this again yesterday to the people I go with about playing Dack wide right for a spell and move Palmer inside for 5 or 10 mins. to give the opposite team a different problem.

I did like the selection of Palmer and Armstrong wide. I wouldn't play Palmer at Preston but his last 2 performances have been improvement. Nyambe must start at Preston away and we need Mulgrew and Williams back for that game. 

Maybe not in your team would be in my team now. We need to play the ball better and into the box better. Brereton isn't going to hold the ball but He will make little runs in behind defences and if we play the right through balls to him, Dack and Armstrong we will score goals. Its the long high balls I don't like us playing. Its a waste tbh

It is but it is up to him and the manager to come up with the answer to that, and I dont think shoving him wide will help with getting him involved, same with Brereton. 

Do you agree with my comments about the manager and players coming up with ways to get our attacking players involved without being more reliant on long balls than any other team in the league, even though they dont really suit the players we have. At home there is too much passing safe, especially when both Evans and Smallwood are playing together and Mulgrew isnt in the team, this was particularly painful to watch v QPR last week. We need to play at a much higher tempo from the start, with much more passing forward between the lines.

Why would you not play Palmer at Preston? Lets go on the front foot and attack a team with a terrible defensive record.

[chaddyrovers]

5 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

It is but it is up to him and the manager to come up with the answer to that, and I dont think shoving him wide will help with getting him involved, same with Brereton. 

Do you agree with my comments about the manager and players coming up with ways to get our attacking players involved without being more reliant on long balls than any other team in the league, even though they dont really suit the players we have. At home there is too much passing safe, especially when both Evans and Smallwood are playing together and Mulgrew isnt in the team, this was particularly painful to watch v QPR last week. We need to play at a much higher tempo from the start, with much more passing forward between the lines.

Why would you not play Palmer at Preston? Lets go on the front foot and attack a team with a terrible defensive record.

How can you come up with an answer when Teams are man mark him like Norwood did for Sheff Utd. Putting him wide for 5 or 10 mins would give the opposite a different problem, something to think again. Not saying for all game but 10 mins spell. 

I think the centre midfield battle is very tough at the minute with 5/6 good players who can all play there. Bennett, Evans, Smallwood, Reed, Rodwell and Rothwell Plus Davenport. I did like Smallwood and Bennett second half yesterday but I did enjoy seeing Rothwell there and his dive and ability is a joy to watch. 

I would play Bennett wide right with Dack centre and Armstrong wide left. My team would be Raya;

                                                                                                                                            Nyambe Lenihan, Mulgrew, Williams;

                                                                                                                                                         Smallwood, Reed;

                                                                                                                                                      Bennett, Dack, Armstrong;

                                                                                                                                                                 Brereton

Edited November 11, 2018 by chaddyrovers

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

How can you come up with an answer when Teams are man mark him like Norwood did for Sheff Utd. Putting him wide for 5 or 10 mins would give the opposite a different problem, something to think again. Not saying for all game but 10 mins spell. 

I think the centre midfield battle is very tough at the minute with 5/6 good players who can all play there. Bennett, Evans, Smallwood, Reed, Rodwell and Rothwell Plus Davenport. I did like Smallwood and Bennett second half yesterday but I did enjoy seeing Rothwell there and his dive and ability is a joy to watch. 

I would play Bennett wide right with Dack centre and Armstrong wide left. My team would be Raya;

                                                                                                                                            Nyambe Lenihan, Mulgrew, Williams;

                                                                                                                                                         Smallwood, Reed;

                                                                                                                                                      Bennett, Dack, Armstrong;

                                                                                                                                                                 Brereton

Evans and Palmer over Smallwood and Bennett for me.

[Ewood Ace]

32 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Maybe not in your team would be in my team now. We need to play the ball better and into the box better. Brereton isn't going to hold the ball but He will make little runs in behind defences and if we play the right through balls to him, Dack and Armstrong we will score goals. Its the long high balls I don't like us playing. Its a waste tbh

You might not like it but that is how we have been playing for a long time now. What you seem to be saying is that Mowbray has spent a significant amount of money on a striker who does not suit our style of play.

[chaddyrovers]

44 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Evans and Palmer over Smallwood and Bennett for me.

Smallwood was good for me yesterday and I would like to see Smallwood and Reed do the same job they did at West Brom away

32 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

You might not like it but that is how we have been playing for a long time now. What you seem to be saying is that Mowbray has spent a significant amount of money on a striker who does not suit our style of play.

Brereton isn't a target man like Graham is. He like to run with the ball, movement is a big part of his game and the ball into feet. 

Mowbray has talk about change our style of play and become move of passing attacking style. 

[Tom Stinny]

56 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

How can you come up with an answer when Teams are man mark him like Norwood did for Sheff Utd. Putting him wide for 5 or 10 mins would give the opposite a different problem, something to think again. Not saying for all game but 10 mins spell. 

I think the centre midfield battle is very tough at the minute with 5/6 good players who can all play there. Bennett, Evans, Smallwood, Reed, Rodwell and Rothwell Plus Davenport. I did like Smallwood and Bennett second half yesterday but I did enjoy seeing Rothwell there and his dive and ability is a joy to watch. 

I would play Bennett wide right with Dack centre and Armstrong wide left. My team would be Raya;

                                                                                                                                            Nyambe Lenihan, Mulgrew, Williams;

                                                                                                                                                         Smallwood, Reed;

                                                                                                                                                      Bennett, Dack, Armstrong;

                                                                                                                                                                 Brereton

Do you not feel that other players should take responsibility. Like you say, teams are marking Dack out of the game usually with two players at a time.

 

This means there is more room for the other forward players to exploit. You win nothing being a one man or one trick team. This is where Palmer, Armstrong and the like should be stepping up. 

 

Playing a team where you have 7-8 defensive players is a major reason why the team scores so little. But finding a balance is what this manager is paid to do. He's been backed financially. Now it's time to produce consistently.

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, Mercer said:

If an employer pays a small fortune for your services then as an employee you should feel some pressure to deliver !

Obviously BUT TM has gone softly softly on BB and said multiple times he's one for the future not the present - that's Mowbray speaking not me - so too me i'd have got in another striker on loan from somewhere who can back up, stand in for Graham upfront knowing my main target man wasn't getting any younger and carries niggles and my one for the future big investment was just that

Playing Dack upfront was seemingly the first fall back option in mind though, he can do the job against certain teams but against many with robust centre halves he can't. There's Armstrong as well who can do but similarly to Dack only at certain times.

I don't think the big signing was dodgy as in the past but I do think there is a bit more to it than meets the eye, perhaps a bit knee jerkish or ordered to find someone like him from above or something. The main bollock dropped is lack of genuine back up for Graham.

Edited November 11, 2018 by tomphil

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, Tom Stinny said:

Do you not feel that other players should take responsibility. Like you say, teams are marking Dack out of the game usually with two players at a time.

 

This means there is more room for the other forward players to exploit. You win nothing being a one man or one trick team. This is where Palmer, Armstrong and the like should be stepping up. 

 

Playing a team where you have 7-8 defensive players is a major reason why the team scores so little. But finding a balance is what this manager is paid to do. He's been backed financially. Now it's time to produce consistently.

You do make an excellent point there. other players do have to step up there the game. I thought both Palmer and Armstrong had good games yesterday. 

I don't see my team I picked as having 7 or 8 defensively players. Nyambe proved how much he has improve his attacking play. Reed is a box to box midfielder. Ive played Bennett wide to help Nyambe against in my opinion Preston best player in Callum Robinson. 

[roversfan99]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Smallwood was good for me yesterday and I would like to see Smallwood and Reed do the same job they did at West Brom away

Brereton isn't a target man like Graham is. He like to run with the ball, movement is a big part of his game and the ball into feet. 

Mowbray has talk about change our style of play and become move of passing attacking style. 

Playing the most long balls in the league is something that doesnt even suit our players. Graham has been brilliant in the main this season but he has very much made the most out of very little service, and is better when the ball is not just hoofed to him to compete against 2 big centre backs. The manager needs to look at modifying that tactic, whether it is Graham or Brereton, as it suits neither.

[chaddyrovers]

9 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Playing the most long balls in the league is something that doesnt even suit our players. Graham has been brilliant in the main this season but he has very much made the most out of very little service, and is better when the ball is not just hoofed to him to compete against 2 big centre backs. The manager needs to look at modifying that tactic, whether it is Graham or Brereton, as it suits neither.

I have mention a number of times we need to adapt out style to suit Brereton and Armstrong. 

do you have the stat for that comment about playing the most long balls in the league? is it from this website https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/7/Seasons/7379/Stages/16389/TeamStatistics/England-Championship-2018-2019

Edited November 11, 2018 by chaddyrovers

[JacknOry]

So can we clarify, is Brereton a target man type or does he like to run with the ball, get the ball to his feet with movement being a big part of his game?

Sorry if someone has already pointed this out a dozen times.

Edited November 12, 2018 by JacknOry

[roversfan99]

52 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I have mention a number of times we need to adapt out style to suit Brereton and Armstrong. 

do you have the stat for that comment about playing the most long balls in the league? is it from this website https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/7/Seasons/7379/Stages/16389/TeamStatistics/England-Championship-2018-2019

No I think I read it at some point recently in the Lancashire Telegraph but that backs it up.

You mention adapting to Brereton and Armstrong, my point is it doesnt really suit us even if Graham plays, who has at times done very well with aimless, thoughtless hoofs to maintain possession. The fact that we have scored 5 open play goals in 9 home games shows we need to look at this issue even if Graham plays.

[chaddyrovers]

4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

No I think I read it at some point recently in the Lancashire Telegraph but that backs it up.

You mention adapting to Brereton and Armstrong, my point is it doesnt really suit us even if Graham plays, who has at times done very well with aimless, thoughtless hoofs to maintain possession. The fact that we have scored 5 open play goals in 9 home games shows we need to look at this issue even if Graham plays.

I think we need to playing Brereton, Dack and Armstrong in a more passing attacking style. With.either Rothwell or Palmer at all. 

The most enjoyable home game I enjoy this season was Brentford at home. 

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

I think we need to playing Brereton, Dack and Armstrong in a more passing attacking style. With.either Rothwell or Palmer at all. 

The most enjoyable home game I enjoy this season was Brentford at home. 

My point was that regardless of our attacking selections, aimless and persistent long balls dont suit any of our attacking choices, as bourne out by the stats.

I feel like you are missing that point.

[tomphil]

If there's a point to be missed you know who'll miss it !

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

My point was that regardless of our attacking selections, aimless and persistent long balls dont suit any of our attacking choices, as bourne out by the stats.

I feel like you are missing that point.

I understood the point 1st time 

[bazza]

Why don't we just replace Graham with Brereton and see how things go. Dack seems to have a good rapport with Ben and Armstrong is no dunce. They will gel.

Add to that Rothwell and Reed and we will have some mean attacking force. From what I've seen of Ben he really looks a good strong player and will only improve with more game minutes.

[bluebruce]

Interesting comments from Mick Rathbone, who has worked with Brereton for England U-19s and Forest.

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/17234278.brereton-has-the-potential-to-be-a-30m-player-ex-rover-rathbone/?ref=mac

[rigger]

10 hours ago, bluebruce said:

Interesting comments from Mick Rathbone, who has worked with Brereton for England U-19s and Forest.

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/17234278.brereton-has-the-potential-to-be-a-30m-player-ex-rover-rathbone/?ref=mac

I would like him to produce a 3 million pound player performance, against the Nobbers. I will leave potential to the future.

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 hours ago, rigger said:

I would like him to produce a 3 million pound player performance, against the Nobbers. I will leave potential to the future.

2 assists in about 20 minutes of game time, I would say he is on the right track 

[rigger]

25 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

2 assists in about 20 minutes of game time, I would say he is on the right track 

Personally I think the best bit of football I have seen from him was when he helped run down the clock against QPR

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, rigger said:

Personally I think the best bit of football I have seen from him was when he helped run down the clock against QPR

That was nice 

[BankEnd Rover]

On 12/11/2018 at 21:33, bazza said:

Why don't we just replace Graham with Brereton and see how things go. Dack seems to have a good rapport with Ben and Armstrong is no dunce. They will gel.

Add to that Rothwell and Reed and we will have some mean attacking force. From what I've seen of Ben he really looks a good strong player and will only improve with more game minutes.

Couldn't agree more! Brereton has to start IMO.