Ben Brereton Diaz

[JacknOry]

I love it when i read he 'is he only' on 18k' a week. 

Bloody hell boys and girls

[47er]

9 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Some of my and another’s posts were removed, which was for the best!

HA! Thanks.

[47er]

3 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

 

Apprentices are in every job, why not football? 

True but employers don't pay 7M for them.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, JacknOry said:

I love it when i read he 'is he only' on 18k' a week. 

Bloody hell boys and girls

I know, football is mad. He'll earn more in a month than 90% to 95% of the people on this board earn in a year !

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

5 minutes ago, 47er said:

True but employers don't pay 7M for them.

Oh Yeah, I forgot to mention my apprentice is on megabucks. Do you still want him to do the re-wire or shall I pop around.

[Exiled in Toronto]

32 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Oh Yeah, I forgot to mention my apprentice is on megabucks. Do you still want him to do the re-wire or shall I pop around.

To continue the analogy, when you were a 19-yr-old I imagine you might have been apprenticed to a 33-yr-old fully qualified, experienced guy, mostly watching him work but being allowed to fill in here and there at the back end of jobs....

[des]

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I know, football is mad. He'll earn more in a month than 90% to 95% of the people on this board earn in a year !

for me its almost 18 months not 1 month lol

 

[blueboy3333]

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I know, football is mad. He'll earn more in a month than 90% to 95% of the people on this board earn in a year !

Mercer earns more in a weekend at the bookies than BB earns in a year running up and down the touchline. 

[Stuart]

Why are we comparing a footballer to an apprentice tradesman? Brereton is a regular Championship footballer - even at 19.

Agehas nothing to do with his current situation. Graham is having a decent season but Brereton is behind him because Mowbray won’t yet give him a chance. Preferring to play Armstrong and even Palmer ahead of him when Graham is out! It’s such an obvious miss that it must be financial based on his loan contract.

Edited December 2, 2018 by Stuart

[Mercer]

4 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I think Brereton will be star. Graham says he is working with Brereton every day in training. 

You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear !!!

You could bring both Messi and Ronaldo in to work with Brereton but if the lad's not got it, he aint got it and never will have.

I see Rothwell and I see a spark, I see Brereton and I see next to nothing.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

13 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

To continue the analogy, when you were a 19-yr-old I imagine you might have been apprenticed to a 33-yr-old fully qualified, experienced guy, mostly watching him work but being allowed to fill in here and there at the back end of jobs....

I've been on both ends of that analogy. Some kids I wouldn't even let them go to the chip shop to get my dinner.

Edited December 3, 2018 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[jim mk2]

 

If Brereton has a strong work ethic, no ego, and wants to learn and improve and listen to others he'll make a go of it in the game. He has the physical attributes but does he have the mental toughness and really want to succeed as a footballer ? 

[JBiz]

32 minutes ago, Mercer said:

You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear !!!

You could bring both Messi and Ronaldo in to work with Brereton but if the lad's not got it, he aint got it and never will have.

I see Rothwell and I see a spark, I see Brereton and I see next to nothing.

Using ridiculous examples, Jadon Sancho is ripping it up this season, he is pretty much Dortmund’s main man along with Reus keeping Pulisic out of the team and they’re top. 12 games, 6 assists, 4 goals, into the England setup and looking like potentially a future world class player. He’s only 18.

They bought him 15 months ago for 8m and he barely made an impact for the first season only 17 apps mostly from bench. I’m guessing if a technical director shared your philosophies, he wouldn’t have been afforded the luxury of that time!

I hear Burnley are looking at hiring one, can I suggest you get involved  

 

[Mercer]

31 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

 

If Brereton has a strong work ethic, no ego, and wants to learn and improve and listen to others he'll make a go of it in the game. He has the physical attributes but does he have the mental toughness and really want to succeed as a footballer ? 

More importantly, does he have the ability!?

Jason Lowe had/has "a strong work ethic, no ego, and wants to learn and improve and listen to others" - he's made "a go of it in the game" and no doubt set himself up financially for life.

The difference is he cost us nowt whereas Brereton has cost £7million.

[Mercer]

19 minutes ago, Biz said:

Using ridiculous examples, Jadon Sancho is ripping it up this season, he is pretty much Dortmund’s main man along with Reus keeping Pulisic out of the team and they’re top. 12 games, 6 assists, 4 goals, into the England setup and looking like potentially a future world class player. He’s only 18.

They bought him 15 months ago for 8m and he barely made an impact for the first season only 17 apps mostly from bench. I’m guessing if a technical director shared your philosophies, he wouldn’t have been afforded the luxury of that time!

I hear Burnley are looking at hiring one, can I suggest you get involved  

 

Think you miss the point I'm trying to make.  It doesn't matter who Brereton has working with him, if he has limited ability he will not kick-on and justify a £7million investment.

Dortmund are a top Bundesliga side, scouted Sancho and thought he could perform at the top level over there and he's delivering.

How Rovers came across Brereton, we still don't know.  We certainly don't seem to have been jostling for his signature with other clubs - think we were the only one in for him, certainly at that extraordinary price.  We've made a huge investment for us and the lad is deemed not good enough for our first team at mid Championship level - he can't be otherwise Mowbray would select him.  Instead we've seen 'anyone but Brereton' selected for the 'number 9' role including Dack and Palmer (non recognised strikers).  It's farcical.  

Edited December 2, 2018 by Mercer

[chaddyrovers]

6 hours ago, Mercer said:

You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear !!!

You could bring both Messi and Ronaldo in to work with Brereton but if the lad's not got it, he aint got it and never will have.

I see Rothwell and I see a spark, I see Brereton and I see next to nothing.

Funny that the 2 games he had an impact and played vital role in winning us 4 points you werent there. We win on Saturday you werent there. The games you go to we lose recently. Maybe you just bad luck charm? ??

5 hours ago, Mercer said:

More importantly, does he have the ability!?

YES!

5 hours ago, Mercer said:

 

How Rovers came across Brereton, we still don't know.  We certainly don't seem to have been jostling for his signature with other clubs - think we were the only one in for him, certainly at that extraordinary price.  We've made a huge investment for us and the lad is deemed not good enough for our first team at mid Championship level - he can't be otherwise Mowbray would select him.  Instead we've seen 'anyone but Brereton' selected for the 'number 9' role including Dack and Palmer (non recognised strikers).  It's farcical.  

Yes we do know how we came accross Brereton? Mowbray has told the fans when we signed. Also Alan Nixon gave a detail account how we came about it. Do you miss that? Or just cant accept it? 

 

[JBiz]

7 hours ago, Mercer said:

Think you miss the point I'm trying to make.  It doesn't matter who Brereton has working with him, if he has limited ability he will not kick-on and justify a £7million investment.

Dortmund are a top Bundesliga side, scouted Sancho and thought he could perform at the top level over there and he's delivering.

How Rovers came across Brereton, we still don't know.  We certainly don't seem to have been jostling for his signature with other clubs - think we were the only one in for him, certainly at that extraordinary price.  We've made a huge investment for us and the lad is deemed not good enough for our first team at mid Championship level - he can't be otherwise Mowbray would select him.  Instead we've seen 'anyone but Brereton' selected for the 'number 9' role including Dack and Palmer (non recognised strikers).  It's farcical.  

So in a nutshell; you think:

1. Assumption that there is something nefarious or dodgy about the transfer and also assumption that the face value claim he was 7m, even though in 2018 that isn’t “extraordinary” and even though still there is little chance it was all upfront.

2. Your opinion of his abilities based on a handful of cameos and further assumption because we prefer to start a goal scoring number 10 upfront as opposed to others.

No worries. I personally prefer not to assume the worst all the time, and to give people and players more time to show their value and skills.

Each to their own.

[Oldgregg86]

20 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I see that Grabban got two more yesterday. What a poor signing he's turned out to be.

Yeah but one was only a tap in?

[47er]

18 minutes ago, Biz said:

So in a nutshell; you think:

1. Assumption that there is something nefarious or dodgy about the transfer and also assumption that the face value claim he was 7m, even though in 2018 that isn’t “extraordinary” and even though still there is little chance it was all upfront.

2. Your opinion of his abilities based on a handful of cameos and further assumption because we prefer to start a goal scoring number 10 upfront as opposed to others.

No worries. I personally prefer not to assume the worst all the time, and to give people and players more time to show their value and skills.

Each to their own.

1) All the info on this transfer values it at 7M, there has never to my knowledge been any info to the contrary. You, of course, think you know better and have consistently implied that the figure is inflated without ever producing any evidence of any kind.

It simply an assumption on your part. 

Not only is there" little chance" that this fee wasn't all paid upfront, there is no chance whatsoever and no-one has ever claimed it was! It simply isn't the way transfers are done.

I don't see anything nefarious or dodgy about this transfer, I simply believe its a Venky transfer aimed at capital investment rather than football investment. TM doesn't seem to have the faith in Brereton that you and Chaddy do since he has never started a game and usually plays just a handful of minutes.. Yet in these cameos you and Chaddy seem to see  magnificent talent in him. Travis looked good for 5 minutes too, think we could get 7M for him (in instalments of course)?

2) You've said it yourself! You've based your own opinion on Brereton's talent on "a handful of cameos"!! What else is there?

And WE don't prefer to start a goal scoring number 10 ahead of Brereton! Tony Mowbray decides that which goes back to my Point one!

[bluebruce]

12 hours ago, des said:

for me its almost 18 months not 1 month lol

 

Hmm? So he needs to work for 18 months, not 1 month, to earn what you get in 12 months? You earn about 27k a week then? Tidy.

[JBiz]

2 hours ago, 47er said:

1) All the info on this transfer values it at 7M, there has never to my knowledge been any info to the contrary. You, of course, think you know better and have consistently implied that the figure is inflated without ever producing any evidence of any kind.

It simply an assumption on your part. 

Not only is there" little chance" that this fee wasn't all paid upfront, there is no chance whatsoever and no-one has ever claimed it was! It simply isn't the way transfers are done.

I don't see anything nefarious or dodgy about this transfer, I simply believe its a Venky transfer aimed at capital investment rather than football investment. TM doesn't seem to have the faith in Brereton that you and Chaddy do since he has never started a game and usually plays just a handful of minutes.. Yet in these cameos you and Chaddy seem to see  magnificent talent in him. Travis looked good for 5 minutes too, think we could get 7M for him (in instalments of course)?

2) You've said it yourself! You've based your own opinion on Brereton's talent on "a handful of cameos"!! What else is there?

And WE don't prefer to start a goal scoring number 10 ahead of Brereton! Tony Mowbray decides that which goes back to my Point one!

Wouldn’t normally respond but since you’ve kept the personal stuff away, let’s have a new start.

1. The BBC said; “The 19-year-old could make his switch to Ewood Park permanent in January for a fee worth up to £7m.”

Key caveats - “could” and “up to”. Compare that to the LET- if the journos don’t have their stories straight, the my assumption is it's un-disclosed and likely convoluted- ie dependent on performances, promotion and a sell on. Potentially even including his 3/4 year contract value in the figures.

 Well respected and articulate poster @JHRover suggested we’ve likely agreed half of that upfront, and I’d suggest it’s even less.

2. The idea of signing younger “projects” isn’t specific to our ownership, nor should it be seen as simply “capital building”. I imagine we’d be in a different place if they’d followed this protocol this from day one. Especially if we’d added lots of potential after relegation, as opposed to signing older players with questionable motives and huge salaries.

My view is he has hardly had a chance to show his talents yet, but has impacted games recently upon arrival. I can’t say for certain that I think B.B. is a quality player, but to get to the opposite of that already, I’d have to assume our scouts are shocking, Forrest have an awful youth setup and the England technical team are also completely clueless.

The reality for me is, I feel excited to see us implementing this type of strategy. Our young first team squad will develop, compare Nyambe to the last time in the league. Adding more potential and competition for places is key long term.

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

4 minutes ago, Biz said:

Wouldn’t normally respond but since you’ve kept the personal stuff away, let’s have a new start.

1. The BBC said; “The 19-year-old could make his switch to Ewood Park permanent in January for a fee worth up to £7m.”

Key caveats - “could” and “up to”. Compare that to the LET- if the journos don’t have their stories straight, the my assumption is it's un-disclosed and likely convoluted- ie dependent on performances, promotion and a sell on. Potentially even including his 3/4 year contract value in the figures.

 Well respected and articulate poster @JHRover suggested we’ve likely agreed half of that upfront, and I’d suggest it’s even less.

2. The idea of signing younger “projects” isn’t specific to our ownership, nor should it be seen as simply “capital building”. I imagine we’d be in a different place if they’d followed this protocol this from day one. Especially if we’d added lots of potential after relegation, as opposed to signing older players with questionable motives and huge salaries.

My view is he has hardly had a chance to show his talents yet, but has impacted games recently upon arrival. I can’t say for certain that I think B.B. is a quality player, but to get to the opposite of that already, I’d have to assume our scouts are shocking, Forrest have an awful youth setup and the England technical team are also completely clueless.

The reality for me is, I feel excited to see us implementing this type of strategy. Our young first team squad will develop, compare Nyambe to the last time in the league. Adding more potential and competition for places is key long term.

 

If we were still living in the past with Shearer and Sutton playing up front and Jack was writing the cheques signing  expensive ' projects '   could be seen as a decent transfer policy.

The thing is our current recognised strike force consists of a very good player who is unfortunately at the wrong end of his career and is prone to injury so very rarely plays the whole 90 minutes. Back up is a young lad who seems to be going backwards and an experienced pro who won't play again this season. Until recently we've been drip fed funds to sign journeymen players were  a fee of 750,000 pounds was seen as a mega bucks investment.

 In the light of that some of us find the Brereton signing strange to say the least. I don't think that's an unreasonable position to take.

Anyway I need to finish the fence.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

12 hours ago, Biz said:

Using ridiculous examples, Jadon Sancho is ripping it up this season, he is pretty much Dortmund’s main man along with Reus keeping Pulisic out of the team and they’re top. 12 games, 6 assists, 4 goals, into the England setup and looking like potentially a future world class player. He’s only 18.

They bought him 15 months ago for 8m and he barely made an impact for the first season only 17 apps mostly from bench. I’m guessing if a technical director shared your philosophies, he wouldn’t have been afforded the luxury of that time!

I hear Burnley are looking at hiring one, can I suggest you get involved  

 

When we're in the same position in the football pecking order as Dortmund then we could maybe start pinching kids off City. I don't think we're quite there yet.

[47er]

26 minutes ago, Biz said:

Wouldn’t normally respond but since you’ve kept the personal stuff away, let’s have a new start.

1. The BBC said; “The 19-year-old could make his switch to Ewood Park permanent in January for a fee worth up to £7m.”

Key caveats - “could” and “up to”. Compare that to the LET- if the journos don’t have their stories straight, the my assumption is it's un-disclosed and likely convoluted- ie dependent on performances, promotion and a sell on. Potentially even including his 3/4 year contract value in the figures.

 Well respected and articulate poster @JHRover suggested we’ve likely agreed half of that upfront, and I’d suggest it’s even less.

2. The idea of signing younger “projects” isn’t specific to our ownership, nor should it be seen as simply “capital building”. I imagine we’d be in a different place if they’d followed this protocol this from day one. Especially if we’d added lots of potential after relegation, as opposed to signing older players with questionable motives and huge salaries.

My view is he has hardly had a chance to show his talents yet, but has impacted games recently upon arrival. I can’t say for certain that I think B.B. is a quality player, but to get to the opposite of that already, I’d have to assume our scouts are shocking, Forrest have an awful youth setup and the England technical team are also completely clueless.

The reality for me is, I feel excited to see us implementing this type of strategy. Our young first team squad will develop, compare Nyambe to the last time in the league. Adding more potential and competition for places is key long term.

 

OK, fair do's and well said. BBC's was one report but there were several, relatively early in the piece,  who reported that we had bid 6M and Forest had turned it down. We went back with a higher bid which was accepted. Must therefore have been 7M or very close?

The lad's here, even bought a house hasn't he? I'd be astonished if this deal didn't do through in January. I feel its rather because its got a momentum of its own though,(rather like Charles and Diana's wedding!) than because Brereton has proved anything. You would argue he hasn't been given the chance but that proves TM doesn't feel he's ready or doesn't rate him so round and round we go. The England youth set-up chose Armstrong and Jason Lowe as well remember! So don't use that measure to assume he's a good player. We just have to hope with him, but his lack of time on the pitch is astonishing.

As for signing players for monetary reasons, I really feel that's a key Venky trait and why they bought the club in the first place. Buy young players and cash in 2 or 3 years later.I want the owners  to improve their club's stock but I don't trust them to believe that their real motivation.  That's why I am keen for TM to do well and stay. At least he can protect us from their worst side to some extent!

 

Edited December 3, 2018 by 47er

[JBiz]

19 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

When we're in the same position in the football pecking order as Dortmund then we could maybe start pinching kids off City. I don't think we're quite there yet.

Exactly why I mentioned ridiculous examples. Do you even read Mercer’s posts? Last week it was “he’s 19, Mbappe is only that age”...!