Ben Brereton Diaz

[jim mk2]

21 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Britt was a world beater at West Ham as a young player. He more or less won the Youth Cup for them on his own scoring a hat trick in the final against Liverpool's Tommy Smith. We put the boat out to sign him as a last hope of staying up. Unfortunately he'd done his knee at West Ham and he achieved nothing at Ewood. Allegedly he could only jump for headers off one leg !  He retired at 21, that was a real shame.

Gilliver was a top young centre forward at Huddersfield but he'd done a disc in his lower back before we signed him . The osteopath/physio that looked after me years later told me Gilliver had come to see him in secret for a second opinion because he wasn't impressed with the medical advice he was getting at Rovers. I believe he later a disc fusion to " cure " the problem. He always ran a bit stiff backed after that op.

Sadly we let John Byrom go to Bolton so we could pay for Gilliver. Byrom went on to score a hatful of goals for Bolton for about 6 seasons after ! Bobby Moore always hated playing against Byrom because he invariably scored against hm.

Yes, letting Byrom go was a poor decision. Memories are hazy but I remember him getting a knock early in a match, carrying on throughout the 90 minutes limping and going on to score  hat-trick , was it the 4-0 FA Cup tie with Arsenal in the relegation 1965-66 season ?  Good local player from the back streets. Where are his successors?

Britt and Gilliver were both crocks when we signed them - what was the club thinking ? 

 

 

[den]

question for people.

 

what would you expect to see in a striker/forward that you had paid £7m for? I would expect to see either terrific pace, or excellent technique. I wouldn’t expect both for that money or in this league, but what other attributes would you expect for that money?

[bluebruce]

12 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

When we're in the same position in the football pecking order as Dortmund then we could maybe start pinching kids off City. I don't think we're quite there yet.

Didn't we technically already do that? Davenport reportedly turned down a new deal with City this summer and signed for us. Granted, if they wanted to keep him badly enough we couldn't have stopped it, and they valued Dav at about 500k not 8 million so it's a bit different, but Pep was meant to rate him. Shame he has been constantly crocked.

[bluebruce]

26 minutes ago, den said:

question for people.

 

what would you expect to see in a striker/forward that you had paid £7m for? I would expect to see either terrific pace, or excellent technique. I wouldn’t expect both for that money or in this league, but what other attributes would you expect for that money?

I would generally expect one of them. Or being a beast in the air. Mostly I'd expect them to have been able to put the ball in the net at a reasonable rate. A mix of these traits to a good level, but not necessarily 'exceptional' at any of them, is acceptable though.

Of course, I'll also make some allowances when they're 19. Not that spending £7 million on potential in our position is what I would have done. If I did, I'd expect whoever I bought to have started a league game by now...

[Mike E]

Given that he’s played about 5 full games worth of minutes for us at most, and is 19, I’d say 2 goals from a position he’s not natural in (both wrongly disallowed imo), and drawing a penalty are a reasonable return.

Edited December 3, 2018 by Mike E

[bluebruce]

23 minutes ago, Mike E said:

Given that he’s played about 5 full games worth of minutes for us at most, and is 19, I’d say 2 goals from a position he’s not natural in (both wrongly disallowed imo), and drawing a penalty are a reasonable return.

And an assist.

[JBiz]

45 minutes ago, Mike E said:

Given that he’s played about 5 full games worth of minutes for us at most, and is 19, I’d say 2 goals from a position he’s not natural in (both wrongly disallowed imo), and drawing a penalty are a reasonable return.

I have to say I can understand the confusion/frustration at the lack of starts, a lot better than I can understand the readiness to say he’s a potential Davies or Grabbi.

Edited December 4, 2018 by Biz

[JacknOry]

4 hours ago, Biz said:

I have to say I can understand the confusion/frustration at the lack of starts, a lot better than I can understand the readiness to say he’s a potential Davies or Grabbi.

Have to agree. While the transfer is confusing and the way and position he has been utilised is something that I have questioned, comparing him to dud transfers in the past is way OTT. Nobody has seen enough of him to make a conclusion either way.

[joey_big_nose]

6 hours ago, den said:

question for people.

 

what would you expect to see in a striker/forward that you had paid £7m for? I would expect to see either terrific pace, or excellent technique. I wouldn’t expect both for that money or in this league, but what other attributes would you expect for that money?

I'd say big money signings like this you expect to see some combination of great skill, great pace or great physical dominance.

Rhodes had outstanding finishing, Bellamy great pace and skill, Santa Cruz great physicality. 

For £7m you really expect there to be something remarkable in there. Even players who we have signed for a third of that money have come in with something exciting about them (Marshalls skill, Dack obviously, Grahams experience and goal scoring record etc.)

[Tom Stinny]

Think anyone who has already decided on Brereton is doing so prematurely. He's a young lad who at 19 has had a full season at forest and 1/3 a season at Rovers.

 

He doesn't look out of place at this level but does look nervous to impress and do well. You can see it in him when he comes on with odd passes and first touches every now and then. This might be to limited playing time and an idea that he feels he has 10-15 minutes per game to put his mark down.

 

That's difficult for experience pros let alone a young lad. I think some had written Danny Graham off in league one after the first 8-10 games yet now he's holding his own in the championship.

 

I think towards the midpoint of the season he will start to click into gear and going into next season will be one of the main players of the squad.

 

If we've to give the league one team patience along with the manager then this guy deserves the same. He Is certainly no Leon Best put it that way and if Venkys want to buy young players all the better as in 2-3 seasons that's how a squad is built strongly.

[Tom Stinny]

1 hour ago, joey_big_nose said:

I'd say big money signings like this you expect to see some combination of great skill, great pace or great physical dominance.

Rhodes had outstanding finishing, Bellamy great pace and skill, Santa Cruz great physicality. 

For £7m you really expect there to be something remarkable in there. Even players who we have signed for a third of that money have come in with something exciting about them (Marshalls skill, Dack obviously, Grahams experience and goal scoring record etc.)

Rhoades had 2+ seasons battering league 1 teams so had confidence coming into the club and was 4-5+ years older.

 

Bellamy had played at the top level for a while so wasn't as unknown. Santa Cruz had been playing for Bayern and left because of a terrible injury record.

 

Marshall had a terrible attitude problem at Leicester and they'd just signed Marhez to replace him. That was shown at Rovers where he eventually downed tools.

 

Graham was at a Sunderland team where the club was in total decline and I think he was near the end of a contract as well.

 

Dack had 1 year left and pretty much forced a move away from Gillingham because the biggest team in the league came calling. He would have been 2-3 million if circumstances where different and that's league 1 money.

 

He's a championship England u21 regular striker. You wouldn't find anyone else for a lower price. Armstrong hasn't really pulled up any trees and Brereton in his short time on the pitch has scored two wrongly disallowed goals.

 

7 million today is the equivalent to 700 thousand 10 years ago. It's no one's fault except these stupid greedy owners of football clubs.

[Mattyblue]

For every player bought with ‘potential’ that makes it, another one doesn’t.

It’s a risk and for a club with our income, it’s a big one at that.

Yet, we don’t now how much of this ‘7 million’ will ever get paid or at what stage.

Is it say, 4 million up front (well in instalments) with another million if we get to the PL, another if he plays for England etc. If that’s the case, then we won’t end up out of pocket in the long run, you would wager. If it is a straight 7 million purely for the lad as he is now, then that is a big risk for us ever getting it back.

Edited December 4, 2018 by Mattyblue

[tomphil]

Is signing players like him at such a young age a way around FFP ?   If the money is put in is it possibly exempt or something ?

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 hour ago, tomphil said:

Is signing players like him at such a young age a way around FFP ?   If the money is put in is it possibly exempt or something ?

It is if you sell them for more! 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

11 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

Yes, letting Byrom go was a poor decision. Memories are hazy but I remember him getting a knock early in a match, carrying on throughout the 90 minutes limping and going on to score  hat-trick , was it the 4-0 FA Cup tie with Arsenal in the relegation 1965-66 season ?  Good local player from the back streets. Where are his successors?

Britt and Gilliver were both crocks when we signed them - what was the club thinking ? 

 

 

We beat Arsenal 3-0 at home in that cup run Jim,  Byrom scoring 1. in the next round we drew 3-3 with West Ham away,  Byrom scoring all 3. No wonder Bobby Moore hated the sight of him.  Were you at that game Jim ? In the replay that Rovers won 4-1 he got another 1 and Andy Mac got another 3. Could it be that game you're thinking of ?  Byrom got another 1 away at Norwich and 1 more in the home game with Sheff Wed in that years FA  Cup. A very underrated player who incidentally made his debut for Rovers in the First Division at the age of 17 years and 4 months. Makes Brereton sound like a veteran.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

11 hours ago, den said:

question for people.

 

what would you expect to see in a striker/forward that you had paid £7m for? I would expect to see either terrific pace, or excellent technique. I wouldn’t expect both for that money or in this league, but what other attributes would you expect for that money?

 Goals would nice, starting games up front would be nice. Given he's cost more than the rest of the team put together I'd expect any £7 million signing to be the first name on the team sheet. The suspicion that this is some sort of " moneyball " type signing gets stronger with every cameo he puts in.

[den]

4 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

We beat Arsenal 3-0 at home in that cup run Jim,  Byrom scoring 1. in the next round we drew 3-3 with West Ham away,  Byrom scoring all 3. No wonder Bobby Moore hated the sight of him.  Were you at that game Jim ? In the replay that Rovers won 4-1 he got another 1 and Andy Mac got another 3. Could it be that game you're thinking of ?  Byrom got another 1 away at Norwich and 1 more in the home game with Sheff Wed in that years FA  Cup. A very underrated player who incidentally made his debut for Rovers in the First Division at the age of 17 years and 4 months. Makes Brereton sound like a veteran.

Went to all those games Tyrone. Byrom was known in some quarters as the golden boy of football. Big mistake selling him.

Plenty of strikers are regulars in their teams at Breretons age.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

9 minutes ago, den said:

Went to all those games Tyrone. Byrom was known in some quarters as the golden boy of football. Big mistake selling him.

Plenty of strikers are regulars in their teams at Breretons age.

He had it all really Den, He was pretty quick, two footed, could beat an opponent with ball at his feet, decent in the air, he  could bring other players into the action, very cool in front of goal, his discipline was good and a Blackburn lad to top it off. Our loss was Bolton's gain. I believe he carried on the scoring streak against West Ham there, I remember seeing him score another 3 goals against them for Bolton in a League Cup tie.

Unfortunately he was more or less finished when he came back to Rovers, just like Fred Pickering was. They should have never come back really.

[Roverthechimp]

Do wonder if TM is doing 2 things with this One:

Easing BB in so that he doesn't get too much pressure straight away - ie accepting that fans will criticize TM for not playing him whilst BB gets to acclimatize himself without being labelled a flop

Two - bulking him up and getting DG to teach him how to use it. Might just be me but BB looks stronger than when he arrived.

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

14 minutes ago, Roverthechimp said:

Do wonder if TM is doing 2 things with this One:

Easing BB in so that he doesn't get too much pressure straight away - ie accepting that fans will criticize TM for not playing him whilst BB gets to acclimatize himself without being labelled a flop

Two - bulking him up and getting DG to teach him how to use it. Might just be me but BB looks stronger than when he arrived.

 

Nail on head on both 

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, Roverthechimp said:

Do wonder if TM is doing 2 things with this One:

Easing BB in so that he doesn't get too much pressure straight away - ie accepting that fans will criticize TM for not playing him whilst BB gets to acclimatize himself without being labelled a flop

Two - bulking him up and getting DG to teach him how to use it. Might just be me but BB looks stronger than when he arrived.

 

spot on there. exactly what Ive been saying since he cant in even tho I would have start in a league game by now 

Edited December 4, 2018 by chaddyrovers

[jim mk2]

6 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

We beat Arsenal 3-0 at home in that cup run Jim,  Byrom scoring 1. in the next round we drew 3-3 with West Ham away,  Byrom scoring all 3. No wonder Bobby Moore hated the sight of him.  Were you at that game Jim ? In the replay that Rovers won 4-1 he got another 1 and Andy Mac got another 3. Could it be that game you're thinking of ?  Byrom got another 1 away at Norwich and 1 more in the home game with Sheff Wed in that years FA  Cup. A very underrated player who incidentally made his debut for Rovers in the First Division at the age of 17 years and 4 months. Makes Brereton sound like a veteran.

I went to the West Ham replay - fantastic atmosphere on Ewood that night.  Queued up to get in the Riverside and missed kickoff and by the time I got in we were already ahead. It was the relegation season - why couldn't we play like that in the league ? Memories are fading but didn't we lose 1-0 at home to Sheff Wed in the quarter-finals ?

[roversfan99]

3 hours ago, Roverthechimp said:

Do wonder if TM is doing 2 things with this One:

Easing BB in so that he doesn't get too much pressure straight away - ie accepting that fans will criticize TM for not playing him whilst BB gets to acclimatize himself without being labelled a flop

Two - bulking him up and getting DG to teach him how to use it. Might just be me but BB looks stronger than when he arrived.

 

Maybe reasonable hypothetical scenarios as to why he hasnt played much but the main issue is where he has played or where Mowbray sees him playing, thats what people have mainly criticised. 

It also doesnt touch the argument of whether we can afford the luxury of a player not remotely intended to start for at least the first half a season.

Edited December 4, 2018 by roversfan99

[philipl]

1 hour ago, jim mk2 said:

I went to the West Ham replay - fantastic atmosphere on Ewood that night.  Queued up to get in the Riverside and missed kickoff and by the time I got in we were already ahead. It was the relegation season - why couldn't we play like that in the league ? Memories are fading but didn't we lose 1-0 at home to Sheff Wed in the quarter-finals ?

1-2. Broke my heart as a 10 year old.

Edited December 4, 2018 by philipl

[Roverthechimp]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Maybe reasonable hypothetical scenarios as to why he hasnt played much but the main issue is where he has played or where Mowbray sees him playing, thats what people have mainly criticised. 

It also doesnt touch the argument of whether we can afford the luxury of a player not remotely intended to start for at least the first half a season.

I'm being optimistic and hoping that i'm right. So far it could be argued that we do have that luxury but a serious injury to DG or Dack would perhaps change that...