Ben Brereton Diaz

[Ewood Ace]

34 minutes ago, Biz said:

Now after all the “straw-men” of BRFCS - the first paragraph is a pearler. Ofcourse judgement of transfers is fair cop - it should be accompanied with some level of scope though.



For instance - it may escape people’s gaze, we are a recently promoted from league 1 team. How many in your list went to teams in the playoffs or just outside from last season?

How many newly promoted Championship clubs can you name that have spent £7 million on a player that by mid December hasn't started a game. If we can afford to spend £7 Million on a sub who may develop  then perhaps we ought to be aiming for the play offs.

Edited December 16, 2018 by Ewood Ace

[roversfan99]

4 minutes ago, Biz said:

Now after all the “straw-men” of BRFCS - the first paragraph is a pearler. Ofcourse judgement of transfers is fair cop - it should be accompanied with some level of scope though.

For instance - it may escape people’s gaze, we are a recently promoted from league 1 team. How many in your list went to teams in the playoffs or just outside from last season?

Or how many went to teams recently relegated with bigger wages to play with? I’m not suggesting our business is perfect but I would say many of the preferred options had suitors before us in the pecking order.

WBA, Villa, Stoke, Forest, Derby, Swansea, Norwich, Leeds, Bristol City - all arguably better positioned squad wise to be premier league and therefore wages doubled in 12 months. 

We should know what agents have done to transfers. The simplicity of which a name and a price is given, belies the facts I’ve mentioned about the transfer market also adding in the extreme level of competition to get into the top flight.

. 

It hardly not accompanied with some level of scope to suggest that, this early within this teams progression, as Mowbray will testify with his pleas for x more transfer windows and comments such as the one he made yesterday, stating that "thats where we are at the moment, " that the TYPE of signing Brereton was is a questionable one. Someone who may turn out to be a prudent signing long term, we dont know. But someone who has yet to really contribute, and has yet to start a league game, with so many other areas in which we needed to improve first.

You seem to be insistent on downplaying that we had any room to manoeuvre in the transfer market, and quashing any scope for discussion.

Firstly, that we are recently promoted is factual but also slightly misleading at the same time. You compare us to Rotherham for example, we have far bigger expectations and far bigger resources.

The point of the list was more to add some context to any suggestions that 7 million is anything but a large amount of money at this level. I'm not naive enough to go, we should have signed Hunt, Robinson, Egan, Benrahama and Pukki with that 7m instead. I appreciate that there are other factors, notably wages. What I dont accept is to just presume that there is absolutely no room to manoeuvre, its the same with your similar argument @chaddyrovers. Just to make assumptions about the wages that potential targets may or may not have demanded with no real evidence. We have also got resources tied up on the likes of Rodwell and Palmer that perhaps werent the wisest in retrospect, 2 players who have been signed very much for the short term and dont have the same argument about a long term project to fall back on like Brereton, neither of whom have at any stage been able to nail down a regular place or contribute significantly to our season.

For me, the acid test for Brereton will be, as soon as Graham leaves the club, is he ready to instantly take over his mantle, albeit perhaps in a different way. He is not a total novice now by any means, but obviously he will need to markedly improve before then. We can only judge from what weve witness so far.

 

 

[DeeCee]

Don't know what the furore about BB is, no one's actually seen him play a match for us.

[bluebruce]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

You love going around in circles and quite frankly you doing my heading to be honest. 

I very simple 2 second google search would show you Mowbray's comments about his wish to evolve our playing style

here is the link https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/17259862.mowbray-wants-rovers-to-evolve-their-style-of-play/

This link was posted at the time of the article. 

yes you keep mentioning these long balls but I guess what they classed as long ball and what they don't. You could see yesterday after half time we pass more to feet than 1st half and then as soon as we conceded we look uncomfortable and nervous wreck and start with hopeless aimless long balls. Instead of playing the same way

You're right, you two do have circular discussions with each other.

It's because one of you fails to see or at least reply adequately to the key points the other one makes. Hint: it's not him.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

34 minutes ago, DeeCee said:

Don't know what the furore about BB is, no one's actually seen him play a match for us.

That's why there is a furore.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

its the same with your similar argument @chaddyrovers. Just to make assumptions about the wages that potential targets may or may not have demanded with no real evidence. We have also got resources tied up on the likes of Rodwell and Palmer that perhaps werent the wisest in retrospect, 2 players who have been signed very much for the short term and dont have the same argument about a long term project to fall back on like Brereton, neither of whom have at any stage been able to nail down a regular place or contribute significantly to our season.

For me, the acid test for Brereton will be, as soon as Graham leaves the club, is he ready to instantly take over his mantle, albeit perhaps in a different way. He is not a total novice now by any means, but obviously he will need to markedly improve before then. We can only judge from what weve witness so far.

 

 

you mean like Sam Gallagher's wages were 24k and got 2 links that reported his wages were that. 

We had a member on here who stated that Marriott's wage demands were too high for Rovers. same with Maddison. 

I don't know how much of Palmer's wages we are paying. I expected him to return to Chelsea in January. 

Rodwell's wages I don't know how much he's on. 

 

 

54 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

You're right, you two do have circular discussions with each other.

It's because one of you fails to see or at least reply adequately to the key points the other one makes. Hint: it's not him.

oh right, well maybe I understand his points but disagree on his views. 

I enjoyed talking to @roversfan99 and his posts on here. 

[tomphil]

All this newly promoted carp is getting a bit tiresome now we spent ONE yes ONE season in league 1 not four or five like some do we also had the biggest budget by some way.

We are where we are right now and where we should and maybe would have been had the dark forces not reared their ugly heads in the shape of I have been stopped from posting this by moderators. Coyle. This squad has bags of Championship experience and players capable of at least treading water In it so time to put that excuse aside we've proven already we can compete the trick is now pushing it on not just settling for mediocre because it's all some like to expect.

Have a go, get some lively players in and play them !

 

[blueboy3333]

6 hours ago, Biz said:

You said “record signing” which is neither true or relevant hence the point about comparing the cost to other records; Cole (15 years) or Rhodes (5 years).

I actually said current record signing i.e. currently in the squad. I worded it incorrectly.  However, when we've finished with the add-ons he most probably will be our record signing. 

Edited December 16, 2018 by blueboy3333

[Amo]

23 hours ago, S8 & Blue said:

I’d say up top is a problem area though?

We have a negative goal difference, despite parity on GS with clubs in the playoff spots.

Brereton makes the odd sub appearance. Hasn't scored a single goal. Meanwhile, our defence/midfield continues to ship goals and fail to see out games. Not that I'm saying Brereton won't come good (if/when he finally gets a chance) but striker was not a £7m priority.

[Leonard Venkhater]

19 hours ago, Ewood Ace said:

How many newly promoted Championship clubs can you name that have spent £7 million on a player that by mid December hasn't started a game. If we can afford to spend £7 Million on a sub who may develop  then perhaps we ought to be aiming for the play offs.

Quite ...and if we had used the (apparent) £7 million to strengthen other areas of the team, we could have used the momentum...and been more in contention..

Got to say it doesn't feel right to me...

[perthblue02]

On 17/12/2018 at 00:55, chaddyrovers said:

but what your list of players doesn't included is agents fee, players wages, player attitude and whether they suited the team dynamics  . This is the problem with list like you produce. 

 

 

Yeah @roversfan99 when you post players names, we demand a full psychological profile of the player, a run down of the team dynamics of every game he has played and if he fitted in well, his wages , what his wife spends, obviously the agents name and fee. Would also be handy if you could include any school reports which could shed light on his attitude, also details of his upbringing and mum and dad would be useful. Also if you could get in touch with his club physio/ current doctor and grab his health record

Thanks in advance

 

p.s also details of his upper body strength index

Edited December 17, 2018 by perthblue02

[Oldgregg86]

7 minutes ago, perthblue02 said:

Yeah @roversfan99 when you post players names, we demand a full psychological profile of the player, a run down of the team dynamics of every game he has played and if he fitted in well, his wages , what his wife spends, obviously the agents name and fee. Would also be handy if you could include any school reports which could shed light on his attitude, also details of his upbringing and mum and dad would be useful. Also if you could get in touch with his club physio/ current doctor and grab his health record

Thanks in advance

 

p.s also details of his upper body strength index

Id like dental records, access to his online spending habits and his family history of diabetes and heart conditions etc also. His family tree would be helpful as we don't want anyone with a bloodline link to a dingle in our ranks 

Thanks in advance 

Edited December 17, 2018 by Oldgregg86

[perthblue02]

3 minutes ago, Oldgregg86 said:

I dike dental records, access to his online spending habits and his family history of diabetes and heart conditions etc also 

Thanks in advance 

Good one , we don't want any heavy gamblers or people who buy ripped jeans and shoddy looking clothing

[Rogerb]

4 hours ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Quite ...and if we had used the (apparent) £7 million to strengthen other areas of the team, we could have used the momentum...and been more in contention..

Got to say it doesn't feel right to me...

I suspect this isn't the full wack payable in January but is probably structured like the Rhodes deal with 2Million every twelve months over the length of the contract however that  initial figure and subsequent payments should have gone on improving the first eleven. Seem to recall Mowbray saying in the broadcast of the fans forum that the ? was made available and he was encouraged to spend it. Thought at the time this seemed odd in view of previous statement from Mowbray about not spending all the budget because the right players were not available. Seems to have adopted a different approach on this one

Edited December 17, 2018 by Rogerb
Unfinished

[Exiled in Toronto]

I personally have no issue with some guidelines on how the money may be spent being defined by whoever stumps up the money. When you get a mortgage, you can’t use it to buy whatever or however many properties you like, the bank has a say.

Equally, I think it unlikely that £7 million appeared with instructions to Mogga to do whatever he liked with it. That much money, spread over the lifetime of his contract, is a capital investment that may well pay back given Brereton won’t be on top dollar wages. The same amount spent on two or three “proven” players, probably needing 6x the salary outlay for years to come, could only not be a sunk cost if we won promotion because of it. And I think we are more than three players away from a promotion team.

[47er]

1 hour ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

I personally have no issue with some guidelines on how the money may be spent being defined by whoever stumps up the money. When you get a mortgage, you can’t use it to buy whatever or however many properties you like, the bank has a say.

Equally, I think it unlikely that £7 million appeared with instructions to Mogga to do whatever he liked with it. That much money, spread over the lifetime of his contract, is a capital investment that may well pay back given Brereton won’t be on top dollar wages. The same amount spent on two or three “proven” players, probably needing 6x the salary outlay for years to come, could only not be a sunk cost if we won promotion because of it. And I think we are more than three players away from a promotion team.

But 3 more players would take us 3 players nearer?

[Exiled in Toronto]

Just now, 47er said:

But 3 more players would take us 3 players nearer?

Maybe, maybe not since Mowbray is 5/10 on transfers...

[47er]

1 minute ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

Maybe, maybe not since Mowbray is 5/10 on transfers...

OK, he could sign 6 to give us 3 real ones!

[tomphil]

Two more for Nuttall tonight..........

[blueboy3333]

Just now, tomphil said:

Two more for Nuttall tonight..........

He must be worth £8m 

[tomphil]

8 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

He must be worth £8m 

Nah a few U20 International appearances are what it's all about not actual goals

[old darwen blue]

12 hours ago, Amo said:

We have a negative goal difference, despite parity on GS with clubs in the playoff spots.

Brereton makes the odd sub appearance. Hasn't scored a single goal. Meanwhile, our defence/midfield continues to ship goals and fail to see out games. Not that I'm saying Brereton won't come good (if/when he finally gets a chance) but striker was not a £7m priority.

I could watch that avatar all night.....Sorry

meanwhile

[Bigdoggsteel]

Nuttall needs to be ahead of Brereton at this point, no? 

[Reedy You're A Star]

I'd give Nuttall a couple of games of coming on ahead of Brerton and let them both know that it's now a fight to be 1st reserve to Graham. It'll hopefully give BB another reason to perform and reward Nutall for his good form in the U23s. If they're both knocking on the door, it can only be a good thing. Give him until the last week of the January  window to try and win that fight. If he doesn't he can go out on loan to L1 and get some games / win a contract at a lower level, if he does though,  it might just save us a few quid in January.

[Stuart]

1 hour ago, Reedy You're A Star said:

I'd give Nuttall a couple of games of coming on ahead of Brerton and let them both know that it's now a fight to be 1st reserve to Graham. It'll hopefully give BB another reason to perform and reward Nutall for his good form in the U23s. If they're both knocking on the door, it can only be a good thing. Give him until the last week of the January  window to try and win that fight. If he doesn't he can go out on loan to L1 and get some games / win a contract at a lower level, if he does though,  it might just save us a few quid in January.

Seems entirely fair to me.

It will show that Mowbray is being even-handed with his players rather than sticking with ‘favourites’.

Can’t argue with Nuttall’s form. He’s got his head down and working hard in the development squad, putting his disappointment behind him.

Over to you, Tony.