Ben Brereton Diaz

[bluebruce]

2 hours ago, Ewood Ace said:

If there is no get out of this deal in January then whoever negotiated it should be sacked. Committing £7 Million on someone who by the time the deal is completed isn't even good enough to get onto the bench with no get out clause available, it's negligent. That there appears to be no get out clause inserted I find staggering Forest must be laughing all the way to the bank. Surely you'd put something in just in case you realise he's not god enough and don't want to commit such a sum for him.

As has been discussed before, this is basically an optical illusion. Forest were up for a permanent deal and not a loan. Buying him outright in the summer (which we ran out of time to do) would have had the same outcome.

There'd have been no benefit to Forest to put a get out clause in, so they wouldn't have agreed to it. I would agree it is looking like a worryingly poor deal right now though, either way.

Edited December 27, 2018 by bluebruce

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 hours ago, SIMON GARNERS 194 said:

'Widely regarded as one of the Country's top young prospects'

..what happened?

If I'd a pound for every " top young prospect " that didn't make it I'd be a pretty rich guy,

[Husky]

Has anyone given any serious thought to the fact that Brereton might indeed be one of these bird eating aliens? It makes as much sense as anything else.

In V we trust!

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

5 hours ago, Husky said:

Has anyone given any serious thought to the fact that Brereton might indeed be one of these bird eating aliens? It makes as much sense as anything else.

In V we trust!

Shape shifting Lizard ? He could do to shape shift into a Championship standard striker ASAP.

[Roverthechimp]

A theory:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-6533539/Arsenal-pay-Southampton-10k-Oxlade-Chamberlain-played-20-minutes-more.html

[Stuart]

14 minutes ago, Roverthechimp said:

A theory:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-6533539/Arsenal-pay-Southampton-10k-Oxlade-Chamberlain-played-20-minutes-more.html

Don’t be daft those kinds of things are conspiracy theories for tin foil hat wearing head wobblers. @Biz told me.

Good spot that. Football is a joke. Just goes to show that it does go on and unless he is going to impact games it does explain why players don’t play as often.

Maybe we will start to see Brereton starting games in January and being able to get into some kind of form.

[JBiz]

21 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Don’t be daft those kinds of things are conspiracy theories for tin foil hat wearing head wobblers. @Biz told me.

Good spot that. Football is a joke. Just goes to show that it does go on and unless he is going to impact games it does explain why players don’t play as often.

Maybe we will start to see Brereton starting games in January and being able to get into some kind of form.

I think it’s probably more likely because Graham is playing well, the system with one forward hasn’t changed, he has looked raw in some cameos and for the “wide attacking” positions, Armstrong, Bennett, Conway Rothwell and Palmer are in front in the pecking order.

If you prefer to think it’s some sort of dodgy deal, then you go for that - no need to drag me into it.

[Stuart]

10 minutes ago, Biz said:

I think it’s probably more likely because Graham is playing well, the system with one forward hasn’t changed, he has looked raw in some cameos and for the “wide attacking” positions, Armstrong, Bennett, Conway Rothwell and Palmer are in front in the pecking order.

If you prefer to think it’s some sort of dodgy deal, then you go for that - no need to drag me into it.

But you don’t believe these kinds of deals exist. Even with proof. It’s bizarre really.

Why is it “dodgy” though? It’s just business. Brereton is on loan and it was done last minute so we will have got a poor deal. Makes far more sense that an experienced Championship striker rated at £7m by both parties isn’t playing due to a contract clause than “he’s not ready” or “he’s crap”.

[JBiz]

Just now, Stuart said:

But you don’t believe these kinds of deals exist. Even with proof. It’s bizarre really.

Why is it “dodgy” though? It’s just business. Brereton is on loan and it was done last minute so we will have got a poor deal. Makes far more sense that an experienced Championship striker rated at £7m by both parties isn’t playing due to a contract clause than “he’s not ready” or “he’s crap”.

I never said that once, I just don’t assume like the second paragraph. 

I don’t think he’s crap either, or poor - I actually think he’s done ok to say coming on as a sub out of position has been his main cameo, and he hasn’t started a league game in his preferred position because Graham is playing well. To early to judge or criticise anyway.

[Mattyblue]

He’s hasn’t generally been terrible, just very raw. 

However, Norwich was terrible, utterly. First time I started to seriously think we’ve got an issue here.

[Stuart]

30 minutes ago, Biz said:

I never said that once, I just don’t assume like the second paragraph. 

I don’t think he’s crap either, or poor - I actually think he’s done ok to say coming on as a sub out of position has been his main cameo, and he hasn’t started a league game in his preferred position because Graham is playing well. To early to judge or criticise anyway.

Touchy. Some do though.

If he suddenly starts games regularly that’ll be proof enough for me. We’ll find out in the new year...

[Crimpshrine]

I don't really understand how the 'loan with a view to permanent transfer' works if it is outside the window for transfers.

If there is a clause that states that the loan MUST be converted to a permanent move on a certain date then it is clearly a permanent deal made outside the EFL transfer window which is against the rules. 

Does it mean clubs can make permanent signings during the loan window and just call it something else while the authorities turn a blind eye?

If it is just an 'agreement' then do we need to stick to it ?

[J*B]

7 minutes ago, Crimpshrine said:

I don't really understand how the 'loan with a view to permanent transfer' works if it is outside the window for transfers.

If there is a clause that states that the loan MUST be converted to a permanent move on a certain date then it is clearly a permanent deal made outside the EFL transfer window which is against the rules. 

Does it mean clubs can make permanent signings during the loan window and just call it something else while the authorities turn a blind eye?

If it is just an 'agreement' then do we need to stick to it ?

It'll be something silly like "becomes a permanent transfer once the player appears for the new club".

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

I think it’s probably more likely because Graham is playing well, the system with one forward hasn’t changed, he has looked raw in some cameos and for the “wide attacking” positions, Armstrong, Bennett, Conway Rothwell and Palmer are in front in the pecking order.

If you prefer to think it’s some sort of dodgy deal, then you go for that - no need to drag me into it.

Even if Graham was playing out of his skin why hasn't Brererton been coming on to play in his position when Graham goes off ?

[den]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

I never said that once, I just don’t assume like the second paragraph. 

I don’t think he’s crap either, or poor - I actually think he’s done ok to say coming on as a sub out of position has been his main cameo, and he hasn’t started a league game in his preferred position because Graham is playing well. To early to judge or criticise anyway.

How long does it take you to be able to judge a player Biz?

[Crimpshrine]

8 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Even if Graham was playing out of his skin why hasn't Brererton been coming on to play in his position when Graham goes off ?

And why start Palmer instead of Brereton at Preston ?

[MarkBRFC]

Didnt start at WBA either despite Graham not playing. Maybe there is something financial in the loan contract and we will see more of him when he is officially our player.

I'm not too worried yet but as Matty said after the Norwich game it did make me think about it a bit more, in that cameo he looked like he had never played the game before.

Edited December 28, 2018 by MarkBRFC

[Leonard Venkhater]

44 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

Didnt start at WBA either despite Graham not playing. Maybe there is something financial in the loan contract and we will see more of him when he is officially our player.

I'm not too worried yet but as Matty said after the Norwich game it did make me think about it a bit more, in that cameo he looked like he had never played the game before.

Something financial probably. It still won't be helping the player.

Unlike your good self, I am worried though.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 hours ago, den said:

How long does it take you to be able to judge a player Biz?

After a game you can see wether they've got the basics or not. I only had to watch Rhodes once to see he was never going to be fast or like knocking centre halves about.

[JBiz]

2 hours ago, den said:

How long does it take you to be able to judge a player Biz?

Completely dependent on player. Age, expense, position, wage, injuries etc - all big factors.

 

[blueboy3333]

If a Championship club which is £150m+ in debt spends £7m on a player who can't get in the team because he isn't ready (according to the manager) then I think that is a fair time to judge whether it was a wise move financially.

We will only be able to judge the quality of the player if he is ever deemed good enough to get in the team.

[den]

3 hours ago, Biz said:

Completely dependent on player. Age, expense, position, wage, injuries etc - all big factors.

 

You don’t need to know any of those things to judge a players ability though - and that is what the bottom line is here. People are basically saying they’ve not seen any great pace or technique. That’s not going to change is it? 

[JBiz]

16 minutes ago, den said:

You don’t need to know any of those things to judge a players ability though - and that is what the bottom line is here. People are basically saying they’ve not seen any great pace or technique. That’s not going to change is it? 

That’s subjective though, I don’t think he has had enough time on the pitch for me to say he has poor technique or no pace.

[47er]

Its a circular argument. He doesn't play therefore we can't judge him, he's not good enough therefore he doesn't play so we can't judge him fairly.

What bit we have seen does not bode well though.

[Stuart]

Wait. Messageboard posts are subjective?