Ben Brereton Diaz

[DE.]

1 hour ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Just about to post the same lol

Mind you Aubameyang, before being subbed at 71 mins, had just 13 touches v Liverpool, 6 were at kick offs!

Nobody would have said he played well though. I'm not sure how Brereton could have played well if he was involved so little in play. It's not necessarily his fault, but still. 

[bluebruce]

23 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

BB did all right imo yesterday. Nothing earth shattering but the midfield and attack looked a far more cohesive unit in the first half yesterday than when we're lumping long balls up to a past it Danny Graham.

Danny Graham is quite clearly not past it. He is one of our best players. He is past his peak in terms of pace, but he is excellent at playing the lone striker role. However, I agree that the tactical approach of lumping long balls to him all game is inherently flawed. We aren't even good at long balls, Rodwell aside, so I fail to see why this is our preferred approach. Probably because we have no real wide outlets so we don't create the space that allows for decent play in the middle, as it becomes congested.

How bad was Brereton's miss yesterday? I didn't see that bit but it sounded like he struck it about as well as that horrendous cross attempt against Norwich. I think the time to start Brereton was obviously after those two cameos in a row which earned a penalty in one and an assist in the other. Not getting his chance at that point seems to have dented his confidence and put more pressure on his shoulders. 

[Stuart]

9 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

Danny Graham is quite clearly not past it. He is one of our best players. He is past his peak in terms of pace, but he is excellent at playing the lone striker role. However, I agree that the tactical approach of lumping long balls to him all game is inherently flawed. We aren't even good at long balls, Rodwell aside, so I fail to see why this is our preferred approach. Probably because we have no real wide outlets so we don't create the space that allows for decent play in the middle, as it becomes congested.

How bad was Brereton's miss yesterday? I didn't see that bit but it sounded like he struck it about as well as that horrendous cross attempt against Norwich. I think the time to start Brereton was obviously after those two cameos in a row which earned a penalty in one and an assist in the other. Not getting his chance at that point seems to have dented his confidence and put more pressure on his shoulders. 

It’s very much like when Nuttall was dropped for Samuel. Mowbray doesn’t seem to consider confidence as an issue.

[roversfan99]

17 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

Danny Graham is quite clearly not past it. He is one of our best players. He is past his peak in terms of pace, but he is excellent at playing the lone striker role. However, I agree that the tactical approach of lumping long balls to him all game is inherently flawed. We aren't even good at long balls, Rodwell aside, so I fail to see why this is our preferred approach. Probably because we have no real wide outlets so we don't create the space that allows for decent play in the middle, as it becomes congested.

How bad was Brereton's miss yesterday? I didn't see that bit but it sounded like he struck it about as well as that horrendous cross attempt against Norwich. I think the time to start Brereton was obviously after those two cameos in a row which earned a penalty in one and an assist in the other. Not getting his chance at that point seems to have dented his confidence and put more pressure on his shoulders. 

It requires less thought, less composure, less ability, to just punt it in the air. Lenihan is particularly guilty of this. We have a striker who is probably unparalleled at this level in terms of turning literally the most aimless hoof into some sort of attack, Graham is brilliant at it, but it is only our most common attack form in the absence of something more strategic and intelligent. Its why whenever he doesnt play, none of the alternatives are ever going to be effective up front.

The thing is, this tactic hasnt been working for a couple of months now. Surely now is the time for change?

Mowbray said this recently:

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/17259862.mowbray-wants-rovers-to-evolve-their-style-of-play/

Mowbray added: “In League One we pressed every team really high, but in this league playing against players who can play through, round, or over that you have to be careful of being a team that only plays one way.

“We’re trying to develop that but as you develop it you can have some teething problems."

As with many of his soundbites lately, they have not been borne out by what has been seen on the pitch. I have seen no signs whatsoever of any attempt to modify our one dimensional method of play, even though it hasnt been working.

 

[DE.]

2 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Mowbray said this recently:

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/17259862.mowbray-wants-rovers-to-evolve-their-style-of-play/

Mowbray added: “In League One we pressed every team really high"

I don't even agree with him on this. I saw almost every game we played in L1 last season on iFollow and I do not recall us "pressing high" on a regular basis at all. Most of the time it was exactly the same as we see now, directionless passing between players around the centre circle and defence eventually leading to a punt up the pitch. There's a reason our results dramatically improved once Graham came back into the team - he actually worked as an outlet in a way the likes of Samuel didn't. 

[bluebruce]

31 minutes ago, Stuart said:

It’s very much like when Nuttall was dropped for Samuel. Mowbray doesn’t seem to consider confidence as an issue.

Yes I meant to mention that in the original post but forgot, cheers. He has done it a few times, but those are the best examples. For me, if players are in form and making an impact, you give them a shot.

[tomphil]

We certainly did not press every team really high in league 1 I don't what he's trying to pull there but that's bull. It was a bugbear on here week in week out as to why we didn't press teams and go on the front foot often enough when we had so much more firepower.

Selective memory there Tony, aka Captain Cautious Mk2 !

Edited December 31, 2018 by tomphil

[roversfan99]

14 minutes ago, DE. said:

I don't even agree with him on this. I saw almost every game we played in L1 last season on iFollow and I do not recall us "pressing high" on a regular basis at all. Most of the time it was exactly the same as we see now, directionless passing between players around the centre circle and defence eventually leading to a punt up the pitch. There's a reason our results dramatically improved once Graham came back into the team - he actually worked as an outlet in a way the likes of Samuel didn't. 

I always think we look so much better in the spells when we press high. We have plenty of energy in attacking areas, sadly a high press doesnt go hand in hand with our direct and at times aimless tactics; you need to retain possession far more than we do, guilty as we are of the most long balls, because it is impossible to keep the energy up towards the end when you spend more time chasing the ball than on the ball.

His choice of strikers signed is really strange. He has signed Samuel, Nuttall, Antonsson, Armstrong and Brereton, none of whom are remotely like target men, a key point in his percentage based football, yet he seems reluctant to move away from these tactics even when they dont work.

[DE.]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

I always think we look so much better in the spells when we press high. We have plenty of energy in attacking areas, sadly a high press doesnt go hand in hand with our direct and at times aimless tactics; you need to retain possession far more than we do, guilty as we are of the most long balls, because it is impossible to keep the energy up towards the end when you spend more time chasing the ball than on the ball.

His choice of strikers signed is really strange. He has signed Samuel, Nuttall, Antonsson, Armstrong and Brereton, none of whom are remotely like target men, a key point in his percentage based football, yet he seems reluctant to move away from these tactics even when they dont work.

Mowbray's ideas on football are, imo, totally opposed to his natural disposition. The inside forward tactic he wants to employ does indeed rely on high pressing, but Mowbray's cautious nature means the team is instructed to sit back too often making the idea of inside forwards and wing backs completely ineffective. Mowbray would be much better off with a Big Sam/Tony Pulis mindset of percentage-based, counter-attacking, direct passing style football. That's generally how cautious managers set up their teams. Instead we get this weird hybrid of a team in theory set up to attack from the front but who either aren't instructed or aren't able to produce the high pressing football necessary to make that tactic work.

If TM genuinely thinks we spent last season pressing teams high up the pitch then that is concerning as that is not even close to what most of us saw. 

[roversfan99]

13 minutes ago, DE. said:

Mowbray's ideas on football are, imo, totally opposed to his natural disposition. The inside forward tactic he wants to employ does indeed rely on high pressing, but Mowbray's cautious nature means the team is instructed to sit back too often making the idea of inside forwards and wing backs completely ineffective. Mowbray would be much better off with a Big Sam/Tony Pulis mindset of percentage-based, counter-attacking, direct passing style football. That's generally how cautious managers set up their teams. Instead we get this weird hybrid of a team in theory set up to attack from the front but who either aren't instructed or aren't able to produce the high pressing football necessary to make that tactic work.

If TM genuinely thinks we spent last season pressing teams high up the pitch then that is concerning as that is not even close to what most of us saw. 

I agree. We play on average 14 more long balls even than Pulis' Boro.

He has suffered relegation at West Brom in the past after sticking to his principles and playing passing football. Maybe he has been burnt by that and is overly cautious as a result?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

6 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

Graham is usually the player in the team with the least touches, so it was no different for Brereton in that regard - most of our passing takes place 40-yards behind them. I thought he was nondescript, not awful and not impressive.

Yeah having only 18 touches when you're playing up front is not necessarily a bad thing. It's what you do with those touches that matters.

[DE.]

4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I agree. We play on average 14 more long balls even than Pulis' Boro.

He has suffered relegation at West Brom in the past after sticking to his principles and playing passing football. Maybe he has been burnt by that and is overly cautious as a result?

Possibly, but if so then he needs to completely abandon this idea of using inside forwards and set us up with a much more traditional formation using proper wide-midfielders/wingers. People keep asking why he's bringing in strikers to play out wide, but I think the reason is that in his mind they shouldn't be playing out wide, they should be tucked in alongside Graham supporting the attack in the middle of the pitch. I'm not convinced this can work with our current personnel and mentality. 

[philipl]

Welcome to Rovers Ben!

[Tom]

I have it on good authority that he’s going to do a Bentley and celebrate his deal with a breakout performance! 

[G Somerset Rover]

Maybe they’re waiting(hoping) until we win today so they can break it easier?

[Stuart]

1 hour ago, Tom said:

I have it on good authority that he’s going to do a Bentley and celebrate his deal with a breakout performance! 

Hope you’re right Tom!

[Bigdoggsteel]

No official announcement from the club that he has signed permanently. Surely just an oversight. 

Here's hoping for a "Bentley!" 

[Oldgregg86]

Probably shuffling through the small print in a blind panic 

[rigger]

 

8 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

No official announcement from the club that he has signed permanently. Surely just an oversight. 

Here's hoping for a "Bentley!" 

perhaps they are waiting for the banks to open, to hand over a cheque!

[MarkBRFC]

Probably be announced on the 31st.

[tomphil]

If we win today they'll announce it, if not it'll be in the small print sometime this week.

Just imagine if we win and he scores though................

[blueboy3333]

1 hour ago, Oldgregg86 said:

Probably shuffling through the small print in a blind panic 

Derek Shaw must be involved somewhere.?

[DeeCee]

The big deal is no big deal anymore.

[aletheia]

I do apologise for this probably naïve question but I haven't read the thread.

Genuine question. Have we paid any money for Brereton thus far?

[Stuart]

8 hours ago, tomphil said:

If we win today they'll announce it, if not it'll be in the small print sometime this week.

Just imagine if we win and he scores though................

I can’t see him scoring any time soon. Right now I wouldn’t be handing him the ball for a penalty.

Needs some serious work. I honestly can’t see what his attributes are. No pace, no physical presence, no threat in the air, no great skill, can’t hold the ball up - and in his 15-20 minute cameos he always looks knackered after 5 minutes. Nuttall looks far more like a centre forward than Brereton.