Ben Brereton Diaz

[joey_big_nose]

30 minutes ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

Well, well, well. I’m surprised no-one has picked up on the following in today’s LT:

“Brereton, who has played 17 times for the club, arrives on a three-and-a-half year deal, with the fee undisclosed.That could reach £7m depending upon clauses in the deal being triggered”

So, the MOST he can cost, assuming we get promotion, he scores 30 a season and he gets more England caps than Bob Crompton (or whatever our clauses are) is £7million plus one man’s wages. And that’s if he’s a success. The key question is what are we in for if he is the next Chris Brown, which I expect we’ll never know.

 

My total guess is we spent around £3M up front for him, with the remaining £4M add ons. 

Still looks way too much based on what's been seen so far.

[Stuart]

7 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Think you’re right Mark. And if thats how it is, then fine.

But there needs to be a much better scouting/decision making system around it. Not just ‘he’s young and English, get him in, he’ll double in value after a few games’. It will see as many misses as hits and a shed load of money down the toilet.

I don’t think it’s fine at all. £150m in debt and needing PL football to have any hope of clearing it, and our fanbase halved and labouring but, no, let’s throw money at side-projects using Rovers so some overgrown kid can get his kicks. 

[Mattyblue]

No it isn’t, but if ‘moneyball’ is their solution, it has to be done better than this.

[Stuart]

40 minutes ago, FwendlyForest said:

Hello Gents

In peace....  I think Ben leaving was met with genuine annoyance and frustration by the vast majority of us - it reeked of short-termism and a Karanka being unwilling to go with our own youth product and instead wanting proven Championship performers.  Having said all that, there were a number of us (myself included) who have always felt that whilst Ben clearly had something about him, you want a striker to score goals and that's the only real measurement that means anything - in that respect he achieved very little, even when he had extensive game time last season.  The televised cup game against Arsenal was perhaps his best performance for us and I think it propelled him to an undeserved status - I'm sure it's the same for you boys, when one of your own breaks into the first team there's an affinity already established which results in rose tinted views.  In his defence he was played out wide far too much (despite our inability to score).  Certainly Karanka didn't fancy him up top and the latter part of his time at Forest is similar to his start with you.

BUT above anything else, he simply didn't hit the back of the net often enough and the majority of our fans would simply harp on about him being young etc etc in exactly the same way many of you guys have been doing.  Personally I didn't like the way he so quickly decided he wanted out - I felt he owed us a little more, clearly in retrospect it looks like we've robbed you, but we'll all have a better perspective by the end of the season.  If he can get some end product then you'll be laughing - mind, he'll need to stop diving all the time if he wants to do that - at times he could be embarrassing!

Good luck - cheers 

Lol at the bit in bold. We had Jordan Rhodes and many of our fans - including plenty on here - thought he was useless and wanted rid!

Football, eh!

Serious question for you though. In your opinion, given how quickly he decided to go (and assuming your Chairman didn’t snap Rovers’ hand off), what salary do you think Brereton will have moved for? Some Rovers think he will be on very little because of the high transfer fee. Significantly below £10k a week anyway.

[Leonard Venkhater]

1 hour ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Forest fans' mood has turned from 50:50 to absolutely delighted - 'had their pants down' seems to be the most favoured description.

Pulled our own pants down!

[SBlue]

Short of promotion, we need to be a more sustainable club.

£3.5-7 million whatever on a highly rated 19 year old English striker is a gamble to an extent. But at the very least it seems like long term thinking.

We probably spent the same on Etuhu and Murphy over the length of their contracts AT LEAST.

Jury is still out of course, but at least there is some semblance of thinking long term nowadays and I still think he might have enough in his locker to be a sound or at least near cost-neutral investment.

Edited January 4, 2019 by S8 & Blue

[Ewood Ace]

4 minutes ago, S8 & Blue said:

Short of promotion, we need to be a more sustainable club.

£3.5-7 million whatever on a highly rated 19 year old English striker is a gamble to an extent. But at the very least it seems like long term thinking.



We probably spent the same on Etuhu and Murphy over the length of their contracts AT LEAST.

But there is of course an in-between that doesn't involve taking a big expensive gamble on someone who may or may not have potential or signing someone on big wages looking for a last pay day to put towards the retirement fund.

[den]

 I wish him well.

For me, his “potential” revolves around a perception that he can turn defences with some strong running. I’m not sure he can - and I haven’t seen anything else from him, but I hope this contract stiffens up his self belief. Good luck to him.

[SBlue]

5 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

But there is of course an in-between that doesn't involve taking a big expensive gamble on someone who may or may not have potential or signing someone on big wages looking for a last pay day to put towards the retirement fund.

Hence - “a gamble to an extent”

But as I say, just my opinion, but I think it will probably work out as cost neutral as any transfer really can be.

9/1 first goal scorer tomorrow.

I’m having a bit.

Edited January 4, 2019 by S8 & Blue

[den9112]

Maybe TM as been reading this ..

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/4928166/Size-really-does-matter-at-least-in-football-claim-scientists.html

[FwendlyForest]

33 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Lol at the bit in bold. We had Jordan Rhodes and many of our fans - including plenty on here - thought he was useless and wanted rid!

Football, eh!

Serious question for you though. In your opinion, given how quickly he decided to go (and assuming your Chairman didn’t snap Rovers’ hand off), what salary do you think Brereton will have moved for? Some Rovers think he will be on very little because of the high transfer fee. Significantly below £10k a week anyway.

Wouldn't have a clue on his wages - we've got such a random collection of players that the perceived variance is huge - I'd be staggered if you're paying him more than 10k.  All the noise we got was simply around him being pissed off with a lack of playing time having got plenty the previous season.  I think him having any expectation of getting ahead of Grabban would have been nuts.  Also you look at Kranaka and he just wants to buy ten players on the basis that three will be great and he can bin the rest at the next opportunity whilst buying another ten, etc.  I guess what I'm saying is that Ben benefitted from a transitional period and got a load of games (many out wide), he was clearly told he wouldn't be getting anywhere near that this year and threw his toys - I suppose I can understand it.  He didn't endear himself with the lack of any 'goodbye/thank you' to the club or fans.

Everyone in the media seems to like banging on about the 25m we're supposed to have spunked on new players, but the truth is that it's only a year since we sold Assombalonga for 15m, the year before Burke for 13m to Red Bull, Antonio to West Ham for 8m, Lascelles to Newcastle and now you guys kindly giving us 7m (ish) for BB - all in all I don't think we're half as bad as some.

Anyway - be good

[frosty]

28 minutes ago, OnePhilT said:

I saw a Tweet that said something about "constant booing, bitching and whining" towards him - I seriously hope that hasn't happened at the games.

It definitely hasn't.

[rigger]

17 minutes ago, frosty said:

It definitely hasn't.

The only bitching I have heard is after a mistake, the only problem is , he has made more than most.

[Mattyblue]

Nope. People getting confused with the internet and real life again.

[Al]

On 01/01/2019 at 23:53, Husky said:

Old Benny Boy is moving into Chrissy Brown territory now.

What's is it now? 17 appearances and no goals . . .

Do me a favour. Nobody is as poor as Chris Brown.

[blueboy3333]

3 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

Well, well, well. I’m surprised no-one has picked up on the following in today’s LT:

“Brereton, who has played 17 times for the club, arrives on a three-and-a-half year deal, with the fee undisclosed.That could reach £7m depending upon clauses in the deal being triggered”

So, the MOST he can cost, assuming we get promotion, he scores 30 a season and he gets more England caps than Bob Crompton (or whatever our clauses are) is £7million plus one man’s wages. And that’s if he’s a success. The key question is what are we in for if he is the next Chris Brown, which I expect we’ll never know.

 

Bargain.

[roversfan99]

3 hours ago, FwendlyForest said:

Hello Gents

In peace....  I think Ben leaving was met with genuine annoyance and frustration by the vast majority of us - it reeked of short-termism and a Karanka being unwilling to go with our own youth product and instead wanting proven Championship performers.  Having said all that, there were a number of us (myself included) who have always felt that whilst Ben clearly had something about him, you want a striker to score goals and that's the only real measurement that means anything - in that respect he achieved very little, even when he had extensive game time last season.  The televised cup game against Arsenal was perhaps his best performance for us and I think it propelled him to an undeserved status - I'm sure it's the same for you boys, when one of your own breaks into the first team there's an affinity already established which results in rose tinted views.  In his defence he was played out wide far too much (despite our inability to score).  Certainly Karanka didn't fancy him up top and the latter part of his time at Forest is similar to his start with you.

BUT above anything else, he simply didn't hit the back of the net often enough and the majority of our fans would simply harp on about him being young etc etc in exactly the same way many of you guys have been doing.  Personally I didn't like the way he so quickly decided he wanted out - I felt he owed us a little more, clearly in retrospect it looks like we've robbed you, but we'll all have a better perspective by the end of the season.  If he can get some end product then you'll be laughing - mind, he'll need to stop diving all the time if he wants to do that - at times he could be embarrassing!

Good luck - cheers 

Thank you very much for coming on here to give your educated thoughts on Brereton.

His goal record was a massive concern prior to his arrival, albeit his age could be a factor, but he has not really provided a goal threat at all in his time here. He has also dived and thrown himself to the ground quite a few times, but he has won 2 penalties with "exaggerated falls" so its worked in our favour at times.

I saw him v Arsenal and I recall him being superb, although he did miss a number of chances. May I ask what attributes you feel are his strengths? I was under the impression that he was fast and a powerful runner but he has seemed quite slow and lethargic in a Rovers shirt. He also is very weak and technically is poor with a really poor first touch.

But he obviously has something, to even come close to warranting such a fee, his England youth career shows promise and he has played a lot of Championship games already. Surely he must have something to his game that can be improved further. But what is it?!

1 hour ago, OnePhilT said:

I liked Antonsson last season, because when all was said and done, he delivered goals - at least until he got injured at Christmas time. To me, that's all that really matters, but it's surely fair to point out players' weaknesses. Antonsson did have a few to his name, and it's fair to say that Rhodes had a couple, too, but I don't recall anybody calling the latter outright useless.

Ben is going to have his work cut out to please the supporters, because it's clear that many see him as having used up valuable transfer funds that could have been used elsewhere. Let's just hope that he gets some support from the stands. I saw a Tweet that said something about "constant booing, bitching and whining" towards him - I seriously hope that hasn't happened at the games.

Rhodes was a classic case of our (and presumably every other teams) fanbases bizarre under appreciation of goalscoring within an attacking players skillset.

His consistency of goalscoring here was absolutely incredible, in some really poor teams, in a team geared to suit Gestede more than him, however, he continued to score goal after goal, he was a guaranteed 20 goal a season man. Once that became taken for granted, people were more focused on his weaknesses without appreciating the whole purpose of a striker.

A lot of people have downplayed Dack's impact at Championship level, and I've seen more than one poster advocating selling Dack for big money and reinvesting, with one suggestion that even Rothwell

Dacks goalscoring has always been consistent for us and the most integral part of his game, not the tricks, skills, nutmegs, passes etc, its the goals that make him so in demand.

Back to Brereton, your comments echoing people that Brereton has received a lack of support at games is total fiction. Social media and forums will be full of negative comments and criticism about a player who cost 7 million who is yet to showcase any attributes to justify the hefty fee or supposed raw potential that he has. They are the perfect place to air such judgements. At the games, he receives full backing like anyone else, yet for some reason some seem desperate to portray comments on social media/forums etc or even conversations between people as "not backing Brereton and not giving him a chance." Nobody would benefit from him proving to be a poor signing and a poor player, and anyone who thinks people do want him to fail are talking rubbish.

[DE.]

These comments about Brereton not being a natural goalscorer contrast sharply with Tony's comments that he's the best finisher on the training pitch. Is it a case of him not being able to handle the pressure on match day, or is Tony exaggerating? 

[Exiled in Toronto]

2 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

Bargain.

Certainly a better bargain than £13-15 million....? 

[DE.]

4 hours ago, Al said:

Do me a favour. Nobody is as poor as Chris Brown.

Whenever I saw or heard that old "Browny" was coming on I felt like I might as well give up and go on do something else. Him being on the pitch seemed to destroy any chance of us scoring. 

[Husky]

4 hours ago, Al said:

Do me a favour. Nobody is as poor as Chris Brown.

Hopefully not.

[blueboy3333]

1 hour ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

Certainly a better bargain than £13-15 million....? 

I forgot about the flex. Still, £10m for a lad who can't even run??. We've done well in the January sales. 

 

[Exiled in Toronto]

21 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

I forgot about the flex. Still, £10m for a lad who can't even run??. We've done well in the January sales. 

 

If we end up paying the full 7, by definition we will have done very well.

[booth]

1 hour ago, 47er said:

Actually to show you how unobsessed I am .I've put you on ignore. Win-win eh?!!

Haha, Katie's at it again. Don't worry he thinks anyone who disagrees with him is obsessed.

[Husky]

5 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

Bargain.

B & M