Rovers v Villa - 15th September 2018

[Proudtobeblue&white]

As the International break is upon us, an apposite time to look ahead to our next Championship match. After both teams were thumped 4-1 last weekend, we sit 13th and 12th respectively, same 9 points, our negative goal difference, the difference! A good performance essential, now that we are back at Ewood and on the telly box. Our most famous defendant must be fit, after a few bouts of unpaid work, and hopefully back for the day job?

Anyway, I play five-a-side on a Thursday, and one of my fellow fifty something five-a-siders is a Villa fan. More interestingly, his son is a budding radio football commentator and has done a bit already on BBC Radio Lancs, so thanks Rick and Scott for the following (they apologise for the cut and paste Wiki history!) :

Questions for a Villa fan!

A short history of your club?(

Aston Villa F.C. were formed in March 1874, by four members of the Villa Cross Wesleyan Chapel (known as early as 1867 as Aston Villa Wesleyan Chapel)^[1] in Lozells. The four founders were Jack Hughes, Frederick Matthews, Walter Price and William Scattergood. The first match was against the local Aston Brook St Mary's Rugby team.^[2][3] As a condition of the match, the Villa side had to agree to play the first half under rugby rules and the second half under football rules. The club were soon playing the modern version of football though and the club won its first FA Cup in 1887.^[4] Aston Villa were one of the dozen teams that competed in the inaugural Football League in 1888 with one of the club's directors, William McGregor being the league's founder. Aston Villa emerged as the most successful English club of the Victorian era. By the end of Villa's "Golden Age" at the start of the First World War, the club had won the League Championship six times and the FA Cup five times.^[4]

Aston Villa won their sixth FA Cup in 1920.^[4] For the remainder of the inter-war years though, Villa were on a slow decline that would lead to them being relegated to the Second Division in 1936 for the first time in their history. They returned to the top-tier of English football by the outbreak of the Second World War. As with many clubs, the war brought much change to Villa Park and remainder of the 1940s were spent rebuilding the team. By 1957, Villa were a Cup winning side once again with the club's seventh FA Cup win. Even though Villa won the inaugural League Cup in 1960, the club were to enter into a very unsuccessful period. The 1960s saw much change at Villa Park. By the end of the 1960s, Villa were languishing in the Second Division and fan pressure led to the resignation of the Board and the introduction of Doug Ellis as Villa Chairman. The club was then relegated to the Third Division. In the 1971–72 season Aston Villa returned to the Second Division as champions with a record 70 points. In 1974 Ron Saunders was appointed manager and by 1975 he had led the club back into the First Division and into European competition.^[2][3] The club was back among the elite and it continued to have much success under Saunders and won the league in the 1980–81 season. Saunders' resignation halfway through the 1981–82 season came as a surprise, with the club in the quarter-final of the European Cup. He was replaced by his assistant manager Tony Barton who guided them to 1–0 victory over Bayern Munich in the European Cup final in Rotterdam.^[4] However, winning the cup marked a pinnacle and the club fell steadily down the League standings over the next five years and was relegated in 1987. However, the club was promoted the following year and achieved second place in the Football League in 1989.

Villa was one of the founding members of the Premier League in 1992, and finished runners-up to Manchester United in the inaugural season. The 1990s was a decade of inconsistency; the club had three different managers and league positions were unpredictable, despite winning two League Cups.^[5] They reached the FA Cup Final for the first time since 1957 in 2000, but lost 1–0 to Chelsea in the last game to be played at the old Wembley Stadium.^[6] Once again Villa's league position fluctuated under various managers and in the summer of 2006, David O'Leary left under acrimonious circumstances.^[7] Martin O'Neill soon arrived and received a rapturous reception.^[8] After 23 years as chairman and largest shareholder, owning approximately 38% of the club, Doug Ellis decided to sell his stake to Randy Lerner, the owner of the NFL franchise Cleveland Browns.^[9] The arrival of a new owner and manager marked the start of sweeping changes throughout the club, including a new crest, a new kit sponsor and new players in the summer of 2007.^[10][11] After several years of narrowly avoiding the drop, Villa were relegated at the end of the 2015–16 season.

 Best moments?

Undoubtedly winning the League in 1980-81 followed by the European Cup in 81-82 season.  However, beating Manchester United 3-1 in the 1994 League Cup Final is up there

What did you make of pre-season? Is there stability at the club?

Overall our pre-season went well with a few of the youngsters coming through.  However, the start of the close season was dominated by talk of the club going into administration and having to sell at least £40 million of talent to stave off breaching FFP regulations.  We were partially bought (55%) by new owners worth £49 billion in June which has removed any problem with liquidity and we have now gone into the market adding 6 new players (2 bought and 4 loans).

Stability in the form of Steve Bruce has been maintained and we have just appointed a new CEO, Christian Purslow, who is ex Liverpool and Chelsea.

Both clubs have made a decent start to the season ( save for this weekend’s fixtures when we both got tubbed!)). From a Villa fans point of view, with all that was happening pre-season, what were your expectations for the campaign, and is nothing less that automatic promotion expected/possible and/or attainable?

Early in pre-season it seemed that survival was the aim for this year as all the loans went back and we were looking to sell all the crown jewels.  However, the new investors have changed that and we are now expecting automatic promotion given the quality of the players we have.  Given the investment we will have FFP issues if we don’t go up.

If not, would you be happy with the play-offs again?

We would probably accept play offs but not be happy!

Who are the players in the current team to look out for?

Jack Grealish, Jonathon Kodja, John McGinn, Tammy Abrahams, Bolasie, Al Ghazi

Are Villa fans generally happy with Steve Bruce?

No – generally thought to be too negative/cautious and getting the sum of the team to add up to less than its parts. Particularly hostile at the moment due to his total failure to build a balanced squad and insistence on playing players out of position.  For example, current back 4 are:

RB Tuenzebe – MU loan, normally CB (We have 4 genuine RB’s at the club, Hutton, De Laet, El Mohammady, Bree)

CB – Chester – ok

CB – Jedinak – a defensive midfielder (He also loaned Elphick to Hull our only other genuine CB)

LB – Hutton who is a RB.  He won’t play Taylor who is the only LB at the club

How have you bedded in to life in the Championship? Was it an eye-opener?

Quite enjoyed the championship and to be competing for something each year is better than 5 years of struggle in the Premiership.  However, the quality of football when compared to the top of the Premiership is light years away

Predictions for top six places?

Middlesborough, West Brom, Derby, Villa, Swansea, Brentford

Predictions for relegation?

QPR, Reading, Hull

How are ticket sales going, bearing in mind it’s a Saturday evening game on Sky?

Our allocation is 5000 and we normally sell out but I’d predict 3500-4000 will travel

Prediction against Rovers?

We can’t defend but  will probably have Bolasie, Abrahams, Kodja, Al Ghasi all playing so I’ll go for a high scoring draw – 2-2.

 

So there you have it. A Villa perspective. 

Head to head:

Rovers W: 62

Drawn: 35

Villa: 75

First meeting: 13th October 1888, Villa 6 Rovers 1! (First Football League - both inaugural members)

We got our revenge just over a month later winning 5-1, with a Southworth hat-trick, in front of 9,000.

Villa went on to finish second in the league behind the Nob enders, Rovers finishing fourth.

Our last meeting was in April 17, when a Danny Graham goal was enough to seal victory, but it was too little too late to avoid the drop.

No doubt the Sky cameras will affect the attendance, and I see that prices have not been slashed to encourage the masses to go.

I just hope that we put Bristol behind us and TM motivates the team he puts out as much as he did to persuade DJ Clark not to send BD down......

I'm rubbish at predictions, hard earned 2-1 win, 16,000.

I'll take 13th season end.

COYB's.

 

Edited September 8, 2018 by Proudtobeblue&white

[tomphil]

Rovers often raise their game against the higher profile sides who bring big followings and I don't see this being any different add in we usually get a good reaction after a crap display. Not sure whether the break has come at a good time or bad time taking that into account as to balance it we are usually sluggish for some reason after an International break.

Much depends on TM's mindset this is just the type of game they shouldn't need much motivating for so I hope he'll let them off the leash but I can see an over cautious approach taking over again.

On the crowd front Villa didn't always travel well up here when Prem games were televised or things weren't going well they certainly haven't always sold out. Not sure of the mood down there at the min but there'll be a decent number I reckon this being a Saturday.

Hard fought draw..

Rovers 1  Villa 1

14,283

(2.6k Villa)

[Mattyblue]

So one of the clubs who were used as justification for shutting the Darwen End won’t bring anywhere close to the numbers that would have filled the old allocation, never mind the whole end.

Waggott has totally misread the Championship if he thinks there’s a load of clubs out there that will bring hordes of fans - or as is probably the case, it was just an excuse to shut it.

Edited September 8, 2018 by Mattyblue

[Leonard Venkhater]

18 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

So one of the clubs who were used as justification for shutting the Darwen End won’t bring anywhere close to the numbers that would have filled the old allocation, never mind the whole end.

Waggott has totally misread the Championship if he thinks there’s all these clubs out that will bring hordes of fans - or as is probably the case, it was just an excuse to shut it.

Surely, it would have been more, if a normal kick off time and not on TV?

[Mattyblue]

Of course, but more than 5,500? Plus, there’s always a chance of Sky coverage against a ‘big team’.

End of the day closing it was probably the right idea, but Waggott should have just told the truth instead of using all these non existent ‘big’ followings as an excuse.

Edited September 8, 2018 by Mattyblue

[roversfan99]

Going to be a game asking questions of both teams character after suffering similar thrashings and having to stew over them over the international break.

Villa made some very eye catching signings such as Bolasie and Abraham who could really hurt us. As mentioned in the very good preview above they are really short in defence so we need to get at them from the off.

Raya

Nyambe Lenihan Mulgrew Williams 

Reed Evans

Armstrong Dack Rothwell

Graham

Subs: Leutwiler, Downing, Bell, Davenport, Bennett, Palmer, Brereton

Probably a tiny bit harsh to drop Smallwood from the squad but I feel like Reed and Davenport deserve a chance after his really poor spell of form. Left back choice is 50/50 but Williams is slightly more defensive, and with 2 shields in front of that defence, I dont think theres a need for a defensive winger as we are at home.

[roversfan99]

2 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Of course, but more than 5,500? Plus, there’s always a chance of Sky coverage against a ‘big team’.

End of the day closing it was probably the right idea, but Waggott should have just told the truth instead of using all these non existent ‘big’ followings as an excuse.

Think Waggott has made it abundantly clear where he ranks supporter happiness as a priority in the grand scheme of things.

[perthblue02]

3 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Think Waggott has made it abundantly clear where he ranks supporter happiness as a priority in the grand scheme of things.

Bit harsh, he seems to value away supporter happiness quite highly

[chaddyrovers]

14 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Going to be a game asking questions of both teams character after suffering similar thrashings and having to stew over them over the international break.

Villa made some very eye catching signings such as Bolasie and Abraham who could really hurt us. As mentioned in the very good preview above they are really short in defence so we need to get at them from the off.

Raya

Nyambe Lenihan Mulgrew Williams 

Reed Evans

Armstrong Dack Rothwell

Graham

Subs: Leutwiler, Downing, Bell, Davenport, Bennett, Palmer, Brereton

Probably a tiny bit harsh to drop Smallwood from the squad but I feel like Reed and Davenport deserve a chance after his really poor spell of form. Left back choice is 50/50 but Williams is slightly more defensive, and with 2 shields in front of that defence, I dont think theres a need for a defensive winger as we are at home.

Dropping Palmer? can you explain why after debating me on the subject

[chaddyrovers]

Great preview

my team 

                           Raya

Nyambe Lenihan Mulgrew Williams 

                    Evans Bennett

Armstrong        Dack       Rothwell

                         Brereton

subs:- Luetwiler, Williams, Travis, Smallwood, Palmer, Graham, Reed

[blueboy3333]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Probably a tiny bit harsh to drop Smallwood

….even harsher to drop Bennett who has probably been our best player this season.

[roversfan99]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Dropping Palmer? can you explain why after debating me on the subject

I think youve misunderstood my point clearly.

I defended him because you wrote him off as a "show pony" without end product, when he has already scored 3 goals.

I also felt you were focusing on him too much in what was a generally terrible team performance. 

All that said, Id like to see Rothwell and Armstrong, who was at least as bad as Palmer but he gives us pace that no one can match.

Why have you dropped Graham, who was far more effective against Bristol City? 

2 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

….even harsher to drop Bennett who has probably been our best player this season.

I disagree, thats Corry Evans. Maybe harsh but more a tactical change, and not convinced he has the tactical discipline in central midfield. Hes obviously all action, running everywhere.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

 

I disagree, thats Corry Evans. Maybe harsh but more a tactical change, and not convinced he has the tactical discipline in central midfield. Hes obviously all action, running everywhere.

Mowbray won't drop Bennett.

[chaddyrovers]

8 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I think youve misunderstood my point clearly.

I defended him because you wrote him off as a "show pony" without end product, when he has already scored 3 goals.

I also felt you were focusing on him too much in what was a generally terrible team performance. 

All that said, Id like to see Rothwell and Armstrong, who was at least as bad as Palmer but he gives us pace that no one can match.

Why have you dropped Graham, who was far more effective against Bristol City? 

I disagree, thats Corry Evans. Maybe harsh but more a tactical change, and not convinced he has the tactical discipline in central midfield. Hes obviously all action, running everywhere.

cos I want pace and movement up front as I said before to you after the Bristol City and We have 3 games in a week so we need to use Graham right and fit for each game so he can play a in each one whether its off the bench or starting. I want use Graham off the bench for Villa and Derby games and starting the Stoke one.  

[Exiled in Toronto]

Proper big club, Villa. Victorian supremacy, European cup winners, the Holte End, traditional kit (ish). I remember when they came down to the third division in Furphy’s time, beat us good and proper at Ewood with more away fans than we’ll see on Saturday.

Two cracking 5th round cup games under Kendall, we equalized last minute at Ewood with an OG then went to a packed Villa Park and took the lead, oniy for Tony Morley (I think) to rip us a new one.

And then the Steve Archibald 3-2 win was one of my top 10 Ewood games. The excitement of seeing a player like Archibald, a cracking game with cracking goals.

My prediction Rovers 3 (Crawford, Kennedy, Archibald) Villa 1 (Withe)

Edited September 8, 2018 by Exiled in Toronto

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, blueboy3333 said:

Mowbray won't drop Bennett.

No i know he wont but its the team I would pick, not the team I expect he will pick. Bennett would probably play in the 2 away games but at home against a team with defensive issues I feel like we should be on the front foot. I dont think he will drop Smallwood either.

52 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

cos I want pace and movement up front as I said before to you after the Bristol City and We have 3 games in a week so we need to use Graham right and fit for each game so he can play a in each one whether its off the bench or starting. I want use Graham off the bench for Villa and Derby games and starting the Stoke one.  

Surely the home game is the one that Graham is best suited to. For me, the shirt belongs to Graham for now, id consider rotating him midweek if need be.

[chaddyrovers]

48 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

 

Surely the home game is the one that Graham is best suited to. For me, the shirt belongs to Graham for now, id consider rotating him midweek if need be.

I've already said which games I play him in and how. Ive said the reasons why I would play Brereton in those games. 

Can Graham play 2 or 3 games a week from the start? Can Graham's fitness levels survive 3 games a week aswell? 

Edited September 9, 2018 by chaddyrovers

[old darwen blue]

7 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

So one of the clubs who were used as justification for shutting the Darwen End won’t bring anywhere close to the numbers that would have filled the old allocation, never mind the whole end.

Waggott has totally misread the Championship if he thinks there’s a load of clubs out there that will bring hordes of fans - or as is probably the case, it was just an excuse to shut it.

Good, can I have my Darren End seat back then?

2 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

Mowbray won't drop Bennett.

Quite correct IMO. Benno is one of our top two players, only beaten by that scandalous wastrel Bradley ?

[philipl]

Great preview.

Hopefully the two weeks will have done wonders for recuperation. Too early for Davenport to be on the bench?

Fancy us to shade this 3-2 if Dack is back. 

[blueboy3333]

8 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

. Bennett would probably play in the 2 away games but at home against a team with defensive issues I feel like we should be on the front foot.

You can't be more 'on the front foot' than Bennett was against Brentford at home when he also set up the winner. I'm not sure AA merits a place instead of Bennett on this seasons form. I'd even say that if 'tactical discipline' is an issue for you then AA shouldn't be out wide at all.

[Ewood Ace]

                                  Raya

Nyambe       Lenihan          Mulgrew            Williams

                      Evans             Reed

Palmer                   Dack                        Rothwell

                               Graham

Subs:Leutwiler, Downing, Travis, Smallwood, Bennett, Armstrong, Brereton

[tomphil]

11 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

Proper big club, Villa. Victorian supremacy, European cup winners, the Holte End, traditional kit (ish). I remember when they came down to the third division in Furphy’s time, beat us good and proper at Ewood with more away fans than we’ll see on Saturday.

Two cracking 5th round cup games under Kendall, we equalized last minute at Ewood with an OG then went to a packed Villa Park and took the lead, oniy for Tony Morley (I think) to rip us a new one.

And then the Steve Archibald 3-2 win was one of my top 10 Ewood games. The excitement of seeing a player like Archibald, a cracking game with cracking goals.

My prediction Rovers 3 (Crawford, Kennedy, Archibald) Villa 1 (Withe)

Another big cup tie and draw at Ewood under Mackay then replay down there with us taking far more fans than we'd see in similar circumstances these days. Kennedy first min pearler missed by half the Rovers massed ranks trying to get in, Price in Villa colours trying to rip us a new one, Stapleton with the crappest penalty you're likely to see, chance gone and inevitable defeat.

Great couple of games though and Villa did used to have that huge club mystique about them.

Edited September 9, 2018 by tomphil

[Exiled in Toronto]

1 hour ago, meadows said:

We played them once at Ewood in the Furphy era, a 1-1 draw in which Terry Garbett scored. We did lose the return 4-1 & they were promoted as champions. 

 

Thanks. Getting the two confused in my mind’s eye.

[rigger]

17 hours ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Surely, it would have been more, if a normal kick off time and not on TV?

Also the trains from/to Preston are under industrial action.

[roversfan99]

4 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

You can't be more 'on the front foot' than Bennett was against Brentford at home when he also set up the winner. I'm not sure AA merits a place instead of Bennett on this seasons form. I'd even say that if 'tactical discipline' is an issue for you then AA shouldn't be out wide at all.

I was away on holiday for the Brentford game so cant comment on it but fair enough. I did hear that he played as a 10 on here which obviously is a no go with Dack returning, is that true? He was poor wide v Bristol, albeit he wasnt on his own with a poor performance, he was ineffective until being moved centrally v Reading, and didnt do much v Ipswich and Millwall. I feel like, with his versatility there is a bit of a question mark as to where he is best. Not doubting that he will be an important player but I feel like if he performs as he did wide last season, he wouldnt merit a place out wide as he didnt contribute nearly enough going forward, goals and assists, for all the credit he got about his character, personality, work rate, committment etc. Arguably his best spell of form was at right back, followed by central midfield. The reason I was particularly dissappointed was that the half season under Mowbray prior, he contributed quite a few brilliant goals.

Armstrong was superb playing wide last season. Sadly we failed to address our lack of natural width in the summer and have no one with Armstrongs pace. He was really poor v Bristol but played a 10 role that didnt suit him, in fact hes not played wide from memory this season bar briefly v Millwall.

My tactical discipline comment was based on Smallwoods comments about what he wants from his central midfielders. Bennetts natural instinct is to chase the ball round like a dog and his work rate is fantastic but that sort of performance would probably expose the centre backs too much.