Derby vs Rovers post match thread

[tomphil]

TM is a bit of a draw specialist we saw that when he first came and even last season where we won a good few games just through being stronger than the opposition rather than attacking tactics, others were down to him making the right positive changes in games or from the off but generally even with that squad in league 1 it was caution first.

It might just end up serving us well this season as they look to bed in again in the Championship so I wouldn't be to worried, contrast this game to the Bristol one where he tried to go for it and we got spanked after a decent first half !!!

Moving forwards though he needs to get attacking flair in right areas over the next transfer windows and use them properly.  That's unless he's used it all signing on the young lad from Forest, a signing I think is going be beg more questions than answers as time moves on.

 

[blueboy3333]

1 hour ago, Parsonblue said:

Defensively we were too deep in the first half but in the second Mowbray got them further up the field and we looked much better.  I thought Evans and Smallwood did an excellent job in front of the back four making tackles and closing the spaces that Derby would want to operate in.  I can fully understand why Mowbray has these two as automatic choices as they have the experience and disciple to do the required job - I'm not sure some of the younger players, as one would expect, have the necessary disciple to do that.  

Mowbray said the opposite after the game, he said were too high up the pitch in the first half (trying to press them) whereas 2nd half we dropped deeper so they couldn't pass through us as much. I think that's pretty accurate. Agree on Smallwood and Evans, they are there to do a specific job which they do it  pretty well.

 

1 hour ago, Parsonblue said:

think this game showed how important Danny Graham is to the team - Armstrong simply looked lost through the middle,

DG is vital to the way we play but there is an excuse for AA. As Mogga also said after the game: “We needed a platform to play off and we couldn’t get the ball to Bradley (Dack) to slide Adam (Armstrong) in and try and get in behind them"   What he doesn't say is because we have Evans and Smallwood in midfield that is why we couldn't get the ball to Dack because their distribution is sometimes very poor, as it was last night. It's a balance that Mowbray has not yet got right. Dack has been practically man-marked the last two games and there is no-one else to create chances. I think he thought Dack and AA would do to Derby what they did to Carlisle. A bit naïve really.

 https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/16887225.derby-county-0-blackburn-rovers-0-tony-mowbray-reaction/?ref=mac

 

1 hour ago, Parsonblue said:

I also find Bell to be frustrating.  For an attacking full-back he rarely beats a man and defensively looks all over the place at times.  

Agreed. he gave the ball away countless times last night. He seems to lack drive and is too complacent with the ball. He's easily dispossessed at times in dangerous areas. 

 

1 hour ago, Parsonblue said:

I think this game showed why Mowbray talks about needing another three or four transfer windows to complete the rebuilding job. 

My worry there is that Mogga may not be all that in the transfer market. We still rely heavily on the players he inherited. 

Edited September 19, 2018 by blueboy3333

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, Parsonblue said:

A hard earned point against a team who I would expect to be challenging for the play-offs.  We rode our luck a little in the first half but looked increasingly more comfortable as the second half progressed - Derby seemed to run out of ideas of how to break us down.  Defensively we were too deep in the first half but in the second Mowbray got them further up the field and we looked much better.  I thought Evans and Smallwood did an excellent job in front of the back four making tackles and closing the spaces that Derby would want to operate in.  I can fully understand why Mowbray has these two as automatic choices as they have the experience and disciple to do the required job - I'm not sure some of the younger players, as one would expect, have the necessary disciple to do that.  

I think this game showed how important Danny Graham is to the team - Armstrong simply looked lost through the middle, whereas Graham knows how to unsettle defenders whilst holding onto the ball and bringing others into the game.  Similarly, we also need Bennett's energy in the team and we looked so much better with these two on the pitch.

I thought there were several very good performances with Raya and Nyambe being the pick.  On the downside, Conway struggled to get into the game before being withdrawn, presumably for tactical reasons, and Armstrong offered very little - either in the centre or on the wing.  I also find Bell to be frustrating.  For an attacking full-back he rarely beats a man and defensively looks all over the place at times.  

I think this game showed why Mowbray talks about needing another three or four transfer windows to complete the rebuilding job.  Our team spirit got us through last night but we are still short of quality in one or two areas of the field.  Nonetheless, it's another point and for a newly promoted team we continue to look more than capable of securing a mid-table berth come the end of the season - which would be a really great effort.  

I think you have overstated the impact of Smallwood and Evans tonight. During the first half they failed at any point to try and keep the ball to stunt the momentum that was at times relentless. I do also think however that we missed Mulgrews composure behind them.

Also, for all of the commments in regards to their defensive nous, so much of our defence was last ditch, so they werent really struggling to penetrate through our midfield.

Evans has had a good season in general and was the pick of the 2 tonight but Smallwood, both defensively and on the ball, is failing to establish himself at this level.

Also dont get the praise for Raya. His decision making is as much a contributing factor as any to the shakiness and last ditch element of our defending at times. There were a few times when he was all over the place, spilling things and making poor decisions, added to some woeful kicking and he fails to instil any confidence.

Totally agree on the comments on Graham who gets more important with each passing week.

[Oldgregg86]

49 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

because we have Evans and Smallwood in midfield that is why we couldn't get the ball to Dack because their distribution is sometimes very poor

This has been the exact problem for many years and no manager seems to address is

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

19 minutes ago, Oldgregg86 said:

This has been the exact problem for many years and no manager seems to address is

One of them needs to be on the bench so we can give either Reed or Rothwell a chance. If you don't play them you'll never find out what they've got to offer. If you only have one playmaker ( Dack ) in a team you soon become very easy to play against.

[Scotty]

The big problem last night was that we kept giving the ball away under pressure.  It meant Derby overwhelmed us in the first half. Raya, Williams, Smallwood, Armstrong, Palmer & Conway all didn't keep the ball well enough.

Replace Williams with Mulgrew, Armstrong with Graham, Palmer with Rothwell, Conway with Bennett & Smallwood with Reed and we might have a team that keeps the ball well enough to play through a high-pressing team like Derby.

[JHRover]

In the end delighted to come away with a 0-0, and it seems so was the manager. The first time this season I was genuinely pleased with a point. Villa and Ipswich were gutting whilst draws against Millwall and Reading left disappointment that we hadn't done more at home and won those games.

If you'd have offered me a point at kick off I'd have shook hands on it. At half time I'd have bitten your arm off.

My eyebrows were raised at 7pm when I saw the team selection and that turned out to be justified. It is rare that a manager makes a tactical change after 30 minutes especially Mowbray but a goal was inevitable and I suppose it is a good sign that he realised we were on the rack and that he had to do something quickly to alleviate the pressure and it worked to a degree.

Second half was better although still a nailbiting and stressful experience to sit through.

I worry about our set-piece effectiveness as we rarely seem to cause serious trouble from corners or free kicks (unless Mulgrew manages to hit the target). Last night our primary source of goalscoring threat was likely to be from a corner or free kick yet we didn't cause any problems from them.

We've been to Derby a few times in recent seasons and gone down with a whimper so to see us hanging on and seeing the game through and coming home with something was a pleasant change.

First half was a horror. Armstrong, Dack, Smallwood and Conway completely anonymous.

[tomphil]

Lack of height across the team contributes to set piece ineffectiveness even when the delivery is good, everything aimed for Darragh who isn't exactly a colossus attacking the ball.

[FGS5635]

7 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Lack of height across the team contributes to set piece ineffectiveness even when the delivery is good, everything aimed for Darragh who isn't exactly a colossus attacking the ball.

Add to that our centre half is usually taking set peices which doesnt help either.

Cant believe we havent had someone else practicing corners so charlie can stop taking them and get in the box.

Becasue we all know what happens when he gets in the box for a corner ?

Edited September 19, 2018 by FGS5635

[tomphil]

2 minutes ago, FGS5635 said:

Add to that our centre half is usually taking set peices which doesnt help either.

Cant believe we havent had someone else practicing corners so charlie can stop taking them and get in the box.

Becasue we all know what happens when he gets in the box for a corner ?

Spot on and unlike his free kick delivery his corners aren't that great.

[FGS5635]

3 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Spot on and unlike his free kick delivery his corners aren't that great.

In his defence its not easy taking corners at ewood. The way the grass slopes away in each conrer makes it less than ideal.

But we must have someone else capable of taking a decent corner

We also have a habit on corners of leaving nyambe back becasue of his pace. Again another brain fart as he is taller than most of the team

[JacknOry]

Absolutely, I have always wondered why Mulgrew takes corners when we are so lacking of attacking threat in the box. Keep him on free kicks for sure but surely we have someone else that can take corners half-decently.  

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

35 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

Absolutely, I have always wondered why Mulgrew takes corners when we are so lacking of attacking threat in the box. Keep him on free kicks for sure but surely we have someone else that can take corners half-decently.  

Another aspect of Mulgrew taking corners is if the ball is cleared quickly downfield he's out of the game. You'd think one of the smaller attacking players would be capable of landing the ball in the danger area.

[OJRovers]

Looking back on the game, we kept Derby's chances to goal-mouth scrambles. So big credit to the defence who were all under 25. If we can keep that unit together they will only get better. Nyambe at 20 years old is doing brilliantly.

Midfield was a big disappointment until Bennett and Reed came on. Those 2 have to start at Stoke.

Attacking-wise we struggle when Dack is quiet. Armstrong is off the boil at the moment, but I think he'll come round, we know he's got pace and can finish.

I'm yet to see the logic of spending £7m on a player who can't play the hold-up striker role, since that is how we are setting out to play this season.

 

 

[Oldgregg86]

48 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Another aspect of Mulgrew taking corners is if the ball is cleared quickly downfield he's out of the game. You'd think one of the smaller attacking players would be capable of landing the ball in the danger area.

You would think any professional footballer at any level could cross a still ball unchallenged in to the box

[JacknOry]

5 minutes ago, Oldgregg86 said:

You would think any professional footballer at any level could cross a still ball unchallenged in to the box

You certainly would but it is amazing how many of them can barely beat the first man or simply hit it right over everyone.

[K-Hod]

1 hour ago, JacknOry said:

Absolutely, I have always wondered why Mulgrew takes corners when we are so lacking of attacking threat in the box. Keep him on free kicks for sure but surely we have someone else that can take corners half-decently.  

A Dack corner, to Mulgrew worked pretty well against Donny away last season.....

[Exiled in Toronto]

To my mind, our poor distribution showed the difference in class between the teams. Most players can perform the basics when not under pressure; when we pressed them their passing was crisp, sharp and accurate, when they pressed us in possession we were awful. The rebuilding project still has a long way to go.

As an aside, thank God Mogga was able to  persuade Graham and Mulgrew to stay. Graham looked real class when he came on, that cushioned header for Dack’s big chance was sublime - good work by the keeper who got a foot to the ball and put Dack off

[Rob1981]

Just now, Exiled in Toronto said:

To my mind, our poor distribution showed the difference in class between the teams. Most players can perform the basics when not under pressure; when we pressed them their passing was crisp, sharp and accurate, when they pressed us in possession we were awful. The rebuilding project still has a long way to go.

As an aside, thank God Mogga was able to  persuade Graham and Mulgrew to stay. Graham looked real class when he came on, that cushioned header for Dack’s big chance was sublime - good work by the keeper who got a foot to the ball and put Dack off

They did look very good with their passing and also closed us down well. Fully agreed that Graham coming on changed the game for us.

I am reluctant to say this but I thought Dack was given the ball in good positions a number of times but chose to try and take on three or four players rather than pass to a better positioned teammate. He’s a great player at this level but it is frustrating to watch if he doesn’t beat seven players like he can sometimes occasionally do...because his instinct seems to preclude passing...

[tomphil]

Dack trying to over impress a bit last night maybe seeing as Southgate was watching.

[rovers11]

We have to remember that we are a work in progress and that we did go to one of the hardest places in the division last night and came away with a point. Plus, we've played two of the other promotion favourites so far (Brentford and Villa) and come away with 4 points. We've also kept 4 clean sheets in the process. This season was all about being competitive and building the club back up; I've seen great progress in that sense. We were so far off the pace 2 years ago in this league, it's nice to see that we are at least competing and are a difficult outfit to beat now. We do need a bit more magic in the final 3rd but that will come in time as we progress and add better players, and as our young players like Armstrong and Brereton evolve and develop. All of our best managers in the last decade or so (Hughes, Bowyer and Allardyce) have first and foremost made us hard to beat and then added the quality in forward positions. That's exactly what TM is doing as well. 

 

[chaddyrovers]

6 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I think you have overstated the impact of Smallwood and Evans tonight. During the first half they failed at any point to try and keep the ball to stunt the momentum that was at times relentless. I do also think however that we missed Mulgrews composure behind them.

Also, for all of the commments in regards to their defensive nous, so much of our defence was last ditch, so they werent really struggling to penetrate through our midfield.

Evans has had a good season in general and was the pick of the 2 tonight but Smallwood, both defensively and on the ball, is failing to establish himself at this level.

Also dont get the praise for Raya. His decision making is as much a contributing factor as any to the shakiness and last ditch element of our defending at times. There were a few times when he was all over the place, spilling things and making poor decisions, added to some woeful kicking and he fails to instil any confidence.

Totally agree on the comments on Graham who gets more important with each passing week.

Smallwood was much better last night and after watching the game back today I will stand by that. 

Evans was poor last night. 

Raya did some good things last night. He is young and learning by playing every game. I would expect some last ditch defending last night cos with Derby with their qualities will cause problems. but they only had 3 shots on targets all game from 22 shots. Not sure about all over the place comment and it seems a little over critical for my view 

[Bigdoggsteel]

The club instagram shared a video of Raya kicking perfectly in the training center the other day. I wonder how many takes it took. 

Ah, he's quality, but there is of course room for improvement 

[roversfan99]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Smallwood was much better last night and after watching the game back today I will stand by that. 

Evans was poor last night. 

Raya did some good things last night. He is young and learning by playing every game. I would expect some last ditch defending last night cos with Derby with their qualities will cause problems. but they only had 3 shots on targets all game from 22 shots. Not sure about all over the place comment and it seems a little over critical for my view 

He had 2 or 3 moments where he caused blind panic, where I had my heart in my mouth, particularly when he spilt the ball in the first half in a comedy of consecutive errors. His distribution was horrific and a big contributing factor in the wave of attacks for Derby as we struggled for a kick. Hes very, very young for a keeper, but im judging him on his performances, and I wouldnt like to defend in front of him due to his eccentric nature. I am not saying we should play Leutwiler, or that he doesnt have potential, or that he isnt capable of very good saves. 

There was a lot of last ditch defending because as a team, we failed to maintain possession, we were reckless in our pressing, we failed to manage the game effectively by slowing it down, the ball kept coming back because there was no out ball in attack, and too many individuals were having an off day and not contributing. I dont doubt that Derby are one of the better teams in the division but we made it easy for them to slaughter us for 60 minutes, until they ran out of ideas and we improved. It was an incredibly lucky point but one that as a result, not taking into account performance, is a good one. We didnt play well as a team chaddy, it was along with Bristol City a performance that was far below the standards we have set, which has seen us very competitive in our other games and picking up points in them all. That said, we showed a lot of spirit that I never doubted was there, that was possibly, aside from the result, the only positive.

And your Evans comment "seems a little over critical for my view" 

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

He had 2 or 3 moments where he caused blind panic, where I had my heart in my mouth, particularly when he spilt the ball in the first half in a comedy of consecutive errors. His distribution was horrific and a big contributing factor in the wave of attacks for Derby as we struggled for a kick. Hes very, very young for a keeper, but im judging him on his performances, and I wouldnt like to defend in front of him due to his eccentric nature. I am not saying we should play Leutwiler, or that he doesnt have potential, or that he isnt capable of very good saves. 

There was a lot of last ditch defending because as a team, we failed to maintain possession, we were reckless in our pressing, we failed to manage the game effectively by slowing it down, the ball kept coming back because there was no out ball in attack, and too many individuals were having an off day and not contributing. I dont doubt that Derby are one of the better teams in the division but we made it easy for them to slaughter us for 60 minutes, until they ran out of ideas and we improved. It was an incredibly lucky point but one that as a result, not taking into account performance, is a good one. We didnt play well as a team chaddy, it was along with Bristol City a performance that was far below the standards we have set, which has seen us very competitive in our other games and picking up points in them all. That said, we showed a lot of spirit that I never doubted was there, that was possibly, aside from the result, the only positive.

And your Evans comment "seems a little over critical for my view" 

I disagree on Raya being a distribution factor in the wave of attacks. 

We failed to maintain possession cos we didn't play the game plan and play to many long balls. We improved cos Bennett and Reed added discipline and positional awareness to the team something we lacked with Conway and Palmer. 

Did I say we played well? Didn't I cover that last night with my comments???