Derby vs Rovers post match thread

[RV Blue]

14 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Smallwood was much better last night and after watching the game back today I will stand by that. 

Smallwood is too slow to make any real impact defensively in this league and is too poor technically to keep the ball, his first touch is horrendous. He’s the big glaring weak link at the minute and it needs sorting fast.

Evans looks to be going back to what he has been during the last few seasons.

For me, Reed and Bennett in midfield is the answer with Rothwell playing wide (or Rothwell in the middle with Bennett wide).

[rovers11]

I think the issue with Smallwood is that, yes, he’s very good at harassing players and closing down the space but, on the other hand, he plays a part in inviting pressure from the opposition by lumping it aimlessly upfield so often. 

I do like Smallwood but if we are to progress then I think he has to become a sub player and brought on to protect a lead. Reed, Rothwell and hopefully Davenport are far more talented than him. He’ll always be an ewood legend, though, for his passionate displays last season. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I'm still concerned that we still only seem to be able to perform for 45 minutes in a game.

[blueboy3333]

3 hours ago, rovers11 said:

We have to remember that we are a work in progress and that we did go to one of the hardest places in the division last night and came away with a point. Plus, we've played two of the other promotion favourites so far (Brentford and Villa) and come away with 4 points. We've also kept 4 clean sheets in the process. This season was all about being competitive and building the club back up; I've seen great progress in that sense. We were so far off the pace 2 years ago in this league, it's nice to see that we are at least competing and are a difficult outfit to beat now. We do need a bit more magic in the final 3rd but that will come in time as we progress and add better players, and as our young players like Armstrong and Brereton evolve and develop. All of our best managers in the last decade or so (Hughes, Bowyer and Allardyce) have first and foremost made us hard to beat and then added the quality in forward positions. That's exactly what TM is doing as well. 

 

Agree with all that except the highlighted part.  I don't have much confidence that Mowbray knows what he's doing in the transfer market. Buying or loaning CM's, No.10's and strikers and playing them out wide doesn't seem to be working. Not in this division at any rate. 

[chaddyrovers]

11 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I'm still concerned that we still only seem to be able to perform for 45 minutes in a game.

very few teams can perform for 90 mins

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

8 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

very few teams can perform for 90 mins

The good teams can give you a good 60 minutes though. Last night we broke even in playing terms for a half. First half we weren't at the races.

[chaddyrovers]

50 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

The good teams can give you a good 60 minutes though. Last night we broke even in playing terms for a half. First half we weren't at the races.

The best performance we had this season was Brentford at home. 

 

[rovers11]

55 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Agree with all that except the highlighted part.  I don't have much confidence that Mowbray knows what he's doing in the transfer market. Buying or loaning CM's, No.10's and strikers and playing them out wide doesn't seem to be working. Not in this division at any rate. 

I personally think he’s quite a shrewd operator in the transfer market. The signings of Dack, Armstrong, Smallwood and, to a lesser extent, Downing were excellent last season. 

So far this year, I’d say Rothwell and Reed look excellent. Brereton is an exciting signing who will come good in time. Davenport and Rodwell  haven’t featured yet so hard to say.  I’m not convinced about Palmer at all and the jury is out on Armstrong at this level, but I do feel he’ll be useful with his pace. 

[Husky]

13 hours ago, Stuart said:

If you extrapolate our current form over the season we’ll be on 63 points. That’ll see us firmly in 11th or 12th place. Great for a newly promoted side looking to consolidate but it won’t get bums on seats and it may not be enough to keep hold of Dack. It also looks to be a waste of the resources we have (Rothwell, Reed, Bennett would be replacements for Smallwood right now). However, with Mulgrew being out last night (and having to play a full back centrally through poor recruitment in defence) I can see why Mowbray might have played the gruesome twosome but I would also hope he’ll be a little more ambitious in future games.

As well as Dack Dastardly situation, one wonders if being 'top of the bottom of the league' in January will be enough to convince the Venkabaos or The Glen Miller Band or whoever is in charge of the transfer budget to inject something more into the season. Though a place higher will at least show us in the top half of the table . . .

[roversfan99]

2 hours ago, rovers11 said:

I think the issue with Smallwood is that, yes, he’s very good at harassing players and closing down the space but, on the other hand, he plays a part in inviting pressure from the opposition by lumping it aimlessly upfield so often. 

I do like Smallwood but if we are to progress then I think he has to become a sub player and brought on to protect a lead. Reed, Rothwell and hopefully Davenport are far more talented than him. He’ll always be an ewood legend, though, for his passionate displays last season. 

Ewood legend is an exaggeration in the extreme.

[blueboy3333]

25 minutes ago, rovers11 said:

I personally think he’s quite a shrewd operator in the transfer market. The signings of Dack, Armstrong, Smallwood and, to a lesser extent, Downing were excellent last season. 

So far this year, I’d say Rothwell and Reed look excellent. Brereton is an exciting signing who will come good in time. Davenport and Rodwell  haven’t featured yet so hard to say.  I’m not convinced about Palmer at all and the jury is out on Armstrong at this level, but I do feel he’ll be useful with his pace. 

No guarantees on Brereton and at £7m I think it's a huge gamble. Armstrong looks poor at this level and unless we change the way we play he will be a waste of money IMO. Palmer will become a bit part player unless he dramatically improves. Rothwell is the new Chapman, talented but under utilised. Reed looks good but where will he play? Mowbray won't drop Smallwood and Evans whilst we look relatively solid. 

For every good un there seems to be 3 bad uns. 

[jim mk2]

Armstrong looks out of his depth in the Championship. He's a quickish player a division below but at this level defenders are faster and stronger and at the moment he hasn't got the nous, skill and physicality to make an impact. He's not a wide man, cannot play with his back to goal and he certainly should not play up front on his own like at Derby last night - hopefully Mowbray's learnt his lesson on that one. 

[Leonard Venkhater]

12 hours ago, rovers11 said:

I personally think he’s quite a shrewd operator in the transfer market. The signings of Dack, Armstrong, Smallwood and, to a lesser extent, Downing were excellent last season. 

So far this year, I’d say Rothwell and Reed look excellent. Brereton is an exciting signing who will come good in time. Davenport and Rodwell  haven’t featured yet so hard to say.  I’m not convinced about Palmer at all and the jury is out on Armstrong at this level, but I do feel he’ll be useful with his pace. 

Yep...but I raise you Caddis, Gladwin, Whittingham, Samuel and Hart lol

[tomphil]

We said all these things about Armstrong in summer when Newcastle were asking 3 million so it was better to stay away. At 1.75 he's decent enough for the squad because of his pace and he will score a few.

TM has talked him up in his usual way saying he can play here and there and do this that and the other when really we know that isn't the case he was always going to be used o n the wing first and foremost. Plonking upfront on his own away at Derby were your always likely to have to rely on scraps from long punts was never going to light his season.

!.75 would have been better spent on proper pace on the wing but Armstrong will prove worth it over a few seasons I think. That's the way TM seems to work if you've played for him in the past and he likes you if you become available he'll sign you then find a place for you !

[Bigdoggsteel]

12 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

No guarantees on Brereton and at £7m I think it's a huge gamble. Armstrong looks poor at this level and unless we change the way we play he will be a waste of money IMO. Palmer will become a bit part player unless he dramatically improves. Rothwell is the new Chapman, talented but under utilised. Reed looks good but where will he play? Mowbray won't drop Smallwood and Evans whilst we look relatively solid. 

For every good un there seems to be 3 bad uns. 

I agree with the 1st paragraph, but not with the 3 bad for every 1 good bit. More like 50/50. What strikes me is we are starting games with better players on the bench than in the team. Rothwell and Reed in particular, but as you say, where do they play? 

Palmer will eventually just fill Paynes roll in deputizing for Dack. 

As for Armstrong, ya, I had my doubts about him and unfortunately they seem to be founded. Not bad at 1.75 million, but he is inconsistent. I mean really inconsistent. He seems on fire in about 1 in 10 games. If Chapman wasn't made of glass, I think he would  give us far more on the wing. As for Armstrong playing upfront, he did really well against Carlisle, so I think that tells its own story. I struggle to see him getting much more time upfront. He should get in the gym anyway, Dack is the same size and looks far stronger and more robust on the ball. Thats natural, but Armstrong needs to do something. Being direct without tricks gets found out by full backs very quickly at this level. Imagine if Armstrong played against us and Nyambe was marking him, I couldn't see Armstrong getting much joy there, out muscled and outpaced, without the trickery of someone like Dack or Chapman. 

Edited September 20, 2018 by Bigdoggsteel

[Blue blood]

Bit soon to write off Armstrong imo. Perhaps not our best player, or an automatic starter, but to me a very valuable member of the squad.

On the wing, against weaker teams in the division I think he could be a real handful. Up top, probably less so due to his lack of physicality. But with clever balls through from Dack and Palmer (if Palmer ever gets smart about what he should do...) and he could be a decent option - especially if we were playing 2 up front, say chasing a game or against a weaker team. Also given our lack of pace, that alone, makes him a very handy option to have.

Either way he's a huge step up from Antonsson, is a better option out wide than Conway too, and has time and talent on his side to improve. IF Armstrong does improve, say gets a bit tougher, or improves his technique a bit more, then we could have a very good player on our hands. For the fee given his potential and current ability Armstrong was definitely worth a punt.  

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Blue blood said:

Bit soon to write off Armstrong imo. Perhaps not our best player, or an automatic starter, but to me a very valuable member of the squad.

On the wing, against weaker teams in the division I think he could be a real handful. Up top, probably less so due to his lack of physicality. But with clever balls through from Dack and Palmer (if Palmer ever gets smart about what he should do...) and he could be a decent option - especially if we were playing 2 up front, say chasing a game or against a weaker team. Also given our lack of pace, that alone, makes him a very handy option to have.

Either way he's a huge step up from Antonsson, is a better option out wide than Conway too, and has time and talent on his side to improve. IF Armstrong does improve, say gets a bit tougher, or improves his technique a bit more, then we could have a very good player on our hands. For the fee given his potential and current ability Armstrong was definitely worth a punt.  

 

I agree he was worth a punt, but as I said, he has a lot to work on! 

[Blue blood]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

I agree he was worth a punt, but as I said, he has a lot to work on! 

Wasn't aimed specifically at you, although it seems as though we're of similar opinions of Armstrong.

Of course if we had more creativity than Dack, or better retention of the ball - leading to more creativity - perhaps Armstrong's limitations would be less evident/problematic. If a couple of players were capable of sliding it through for him, emphasising his strengths, I'd imagine his performances would increase a lot.

Similarly for Evans and Smallwood on that point. Had they a different partner capable of driving forward or passing (as many people including me have said), their weaknesses would be a lot less problematic for the team.

Perhaps TM should be focussing on this when working out his best 11.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Blue blood said:

Wasn't aimed specifically at you, although it seems as though we're of similar opinions of Armstrong.

Of course if we had more creativity than Dack, or better retention of the ball - leading to more creativity - perhaps Armstrong's limitations would be less evident/problematic. If a couple of players were capable of sliding it through for him, emphasising his strengths, I'd imagine his performances would increase a lot.

Similarly for Evans and Smallwood on that point. Had they a different partner capable of driving forward or passing (as many people including me have said), their weaknesses would be a lot less problematic for the team.

Perhaps TM should be focussing on this when working out his best 11.

Reed looks to have more about him than Smallwood, but I can understand why Reed isn't straight in....yet 

 

[LDRover]

2 hours ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Yep...but I raise you Caddis, Gladwin, Whittingham, Samuel and Hart lol

I'm going all in on Nuttall and Leutweiler

[Parsonblue]

2 hours ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Yep...but I raise you Caddis, Gladwin, Whittingham, Samuel and Hart lol

Caddis, Whittingham and Samuel played their part in helping us out of League One - which was why they were brought in.  Caddis and Whittingham have moved on after the prime objective was achieved.

 

16 minutes ago, LDRover said:

I'm going all in on Nuttall and Leutweiler

Nuttall was always brought in as a player to develop whilst Leutweiler was brought in as an experienced back-up to Raya. 

Personally, I'd say the manager has been pretty shrewd in his dealings thus far in terms of developing the club as a long term project.  We are slowly improving but without spending a fortune which seems to me to be the ideal scenario. 

[47er]

16 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

very few teams can perform for 90 mins

But we NEVER do!

45 mins is our norm

[arbitro]

42 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

Caddis, Whittingham and Samuel played their part in helping us out of League One - which was why they were brought in.  Caddis and Whittingham have moved on after the prime objective was achieved.

 

Nuttall was always brought in as a player to develop whilst Leutweiler was brought in as an experienced back-up to Raya. 

Personally, I'd say the manager has been pretty shrewd in his dealings thus far in terms of developing the club as a long term project.  We are slowly improving but without spending a fortune which seems to me to be the ideal scenario. 

If they were brought in to get us out of League One why give Caddis and Whittingham two year deals? They have both been paid off after one season at a considerable cost to the club. I'd be surprised is the deals for them both hasn't cost £1.5m.

[Leonard Venkhater]

57 minutes ago, arbitro said:

If they were brought in to get us out of League One why give Caddis and Whittingham two year deals? They have both been paid off after one season at a considerable cost to the club. I'd be surprised is the deals for them both hasn't cost £1.5m.

Poor signings.

Even Alistair Campbell couldn't spin them into positive contributions to the promotion effort.

[FGS5635]

Its clear venkys thinking and trust in TM has changed. His budget is now on another level to when caddis was signed. No point keeping them about now when you have funds to sign multiple better players.