Attendances

[blueboy3333]

1 hour ago, meadows said:

Nor was Lambert sacked either!!

...and he didn't leave because he wasn't given money either, like was speculated at the time. He was well backed in the January transfer window (loans don't come for free) and, as he said when he left, budgets for the summer had not yet been discussed. He left (or so he was overheard saying after a press conference) because he was expected, in the absence of owners and boardroom structure,  to be the spokesman for the club like he was at Villa, which he didn't want. Probably fair enough because the Villa job took it's toll on him. I think he also thought there might be a better job on the horizon for him too. You don't put a 'break' clause in your contract because you really, really want to be at a club.  

I was delighted when he left, he was relentlessly negative. Then Coyle happened, he was relentlessly positive. At least Lambert got the players fit. 

[Stuart]

4 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

Personally, getting rid of Lambert was a huge cause of celebration for me and Coyle's appointment actually has done some good in a strange way - relegation and the revival under Mowbray has made the club stronger than at any point since Big Sam left.  At long last we look like a proper club again with manager, players, administrators and owners all pulling in the same direction.

Putting a positive spin on the Coyle appointment - ha! We were fortunate to be relegated when we were as the three who fell were the strongest in L1.

But surely if you are going to look at it like that you should recognise the “good” that Lambert did because he sold Rhodes without too much grumbling from the terraces, because fans believed there was a plan. As I expect did Lambert. I know a lot on here were quietly (and some less quietly) delighted when Jordan was pushed out of the club. Presumably you also now “see what Kean was trying to do” and recognise the prescience of his “sometimes you have to take a step backwards to take one forwards”?

We only look stronger now because we were the second best team in L1, better than fourth place by some distance, and we’ve had that bounce. Yes, Mowbray has been loyal to his L1 first XI - almost to a fault - and that has steadied us but the reason things look rosier are because we’ve stopped thinking about the enormous debt.

More seasons like this one and we will start hearing talk of stability and be back in the rut we were under Bowyer.

[RevidgeBlue]

30 minutes ago, Stuart said:

More seasons like this one and we will start hearing talk of stability and be back in the rut we were under Bowyer.

Bit harsh on TM. Whilst there is the possibility TM could become a more experenced version of Gary Bowyer when he was here and whilst I have some sympathy with Mercer's view that he might have kept up up had he not gone too negative, and despite the fact he is too cautious and pragmatic for my likiing, overall he has done a great job and appears to be a man of genuine integritty which was exactly what we needed after Lambert and Coyle.

Have to agree with Parson on Lambert, in the absence of anything to the contrary I remain to be convinced he wasn't simply in it fot himself to boost his bank balance for 6 months. Who takes a job and inserts a get out clause? At the time of his appointment the squad was at tipping point with some players getting over the hill and the others we wanted to keep having their contracts running down. We needed someone to come in for the long term and stick around and sort the playing squad out, not someone who buggered off as soon as results didn't go his way.

Whilst not wanting to be an apologist for Coyle who was clearly the wrong appointment and who couldnt set up a defence, he had his work cut out for him by Lambert who left the squad in a right state and without a single striker under contract and the owners who sold Hanley and Duffy immediately after his arrival.. Anyone would have found it a challenge.

[JHRover]

I'm reserving judgment on the 'corner turned' theory that many are keen to believe in at this stage.

Yes things are a lot better than they were a couple of years ago, yes it is good to have a team and manager we can relate to and get behind 100%, yes it appears that the manager currently has the trust of the owners and as such they are letting him do it his way and are backing him

But we've been here before. I'm amazed how short some people's memories are. We had all this under Bowyer between 2013 and 2015 when he assembled a squad we loved and they had a spell of not selling anyone and the atmosphere around the club was very positive for a while.

They've got lucky with Mowbray because he has a bit of everything needed. He's has the experience and nous that Bowyer probably didn't have, he's a real manager which is more than can be said for some of the others, he's prepared to make sacrifices and play their game by traipsing around the world a few times a year to speak to Madame which many, including Lambert, probably weren't prepared to mess around doing.

I don't believe there was any grand plan from the owners. It took them far too long to get rid of Coyle, when they did they went and found an unemployed manager who had failed in his last job, and it has worked out well for them so far. Nothing more than that.

I'll congratulate them when it is sustained over a longer period and they don't repeat past mistakes of alienating the manager, selling his best players or pulling up the drawbridge on communication. I've been burnt before and won't be again.

Speaking of which, Mowbray and Waggott were due to head to India this week, yet I heard on Saturday that it might not be happening. Anyone else heard the same?

Edited November 11, 2018 by JHRover

[roversfan99]

Theres a hell of a lot of circumstance and luck that fell into place when we went down too. Firstly, we had a number of players, Lowe, Akpan, Henley, Greer, Mahoney and Brown, as well as the loans who had failed to consistently impress/impress at all, all of whom were out of contract. Therefore in terms of a re-build, much of the deadwood was already set to depart without any planning/hard work needed. We then had a remaining squad which mainly fell into 2 categories, experienced players on decent wages and some with questionable fitness who were unlikely to have many suitors demanding to buy them (Mulgrew, Graham, Bennett, Evans, Williams) and young players who still hadnt totally convinced and a season in League 1 was perfectly timed. (Nyambe, Lenihan, Raya) If Mowbray had been allowed to hand pick which players to keep and which to let go regardless contract, he wouldnt have done it much differently to how it played out, so he was lucky there.

 We were also lucky that relegation happened to be the trigger for the owners to at least give the manager somewhat of a budget and some freedom to tailor the remaining squad into exactly how he wanted.

The only reason that Lambert garnered so much popularity at any point was because he left and the fans saw it as a two fingered salute towards the owners, who obviously we all hate. Most managers who plan to leave and do leave in the way that he did would have been criticised. Throw in to the mix who replaced him, a manager who in no way shape or form can anyone spin into a positive, and for a manager who was dull, who played dull football with at best average if not poor results, sold the star player and fans favourite and replaced him with a series of loans and short term signings, he couldnt have come out of such a spell looking any better if he had planned it.

May I ask @Parsonblue was you genuinely happy at the time of Coyle's arrival, or are your comments about things being a "huge cause of celebration" very much borne out of hindsight in terms of who followed Lambert?

Edited November 11, 2018 by roversfan99

[JHRover]

It's also based on the premise that we're currently in a better position with Mowbray at the helm now than we would have been had Lambert not jacked it in. 

That's not an attempt to diminish the good job Mowbray has done, but the reality is that we're currently around about what we were 2-3 years ago before they swung a wrecking ball at it and it is only through Mowbray's good work we're getting back to where we were. 

Had they kept Lambert and backed him, or indeed replaced him with a remotely competent manager and backed him, I'd wager we'd be not too far off where we are now, but without the pain of a relegation season and the positives of a promotion season.

N.B. I'm not really interested in 'style' or demeanour, I'm talking about league position and results. 

[Mattyblue]

Totally get your point JH, but to me the foundations feel slightly more firm than they did 2013/15. However, with these owners it all seems to be about personal relationships. Mowbray and Waggott seem to gel with them, every chance the next appointees don’t, then what?

Time will tell and if they eventually replace Mowbray with another Coyle-esque candidate then nothing at all has changed.

Edited November 11, 2018 by Mattyblue

[chaddyrovers]

20 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I'm reserving judgment on the 'corner turned' theory that many are keen to believe in at this stage.

Yes things are a lot better than they were a couple of years ago, yes it is good to have a team and manager we can relate to and get behind 100%, yes it appears that the manager currently has the trust of the owners and as such they are letting him do it his way and are backing him

But we've been here before. I'm amazed how short some people's memories are. We had all this under Bowyer between 2013 and 2015 when he assembled a squad we loved and they had a spell of not selling anyone and the atmosphere around the club was very positive for a while.

They've got lucky with Mowbray because he has a bit of everything needed. He's has the experience and nous that Bowyer probably didn't have, he's a real manager which is more than can be said for some of the others, he's prepared to make sacrifices and play their game by traipsing around the world a few times a year to speak to Madame which many, including Lambert, probably weren't prepared to mess around doing.

I don't believe there was any grand plan from the owners. It took them far too long to get rid of Coyle, when they did they went and found an unemployed manager who had failed in his last job, and it has worked out well for them so far. Nothing more than that.

I'll congratulate them when it is sustained over a longer period and they don't repeat past mistakes of alienating the manager, selling his best players or pulling up the drawbridge on communication. I've been burnt before and won't be again.

Speaking of which, Mowbray and Waggott were due to head to India this week, yet I heard on Saturday that it might not be happening. Anyone else heard the same?

Yes it did take a long time to get rid of Coyle but I think Senior wanted rid of him from day 1. Also it was Senior who went and got Mowbray. or so he says from the emails I have from him. 

I have asked Rich Sharpe to see whether Mowbray and Waggott are going to India this week. Awaiting a response

28 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

 

Have to agree with Parson on Lambert, in the absence of anything to the contrary I remain to be convinced he wasn't simply in it fot himself to boost his bank balance for 6 months. Who takes a job and inserts a get out clause?

Whilst not wanting to be an apologist for Coyle who was clearly the wrong appointment and who couldnt set up a defence, he had his work cut out for him by Lambert who left the squad in a right state and without a single striker under contract and the owners who sold Hanley and Duffy immediately after his arrival.. Anyone would have found it a challenge.

Lambert wanted that get out clause cos he didn't trust Venkys would follow through with their promises of money in the summer and back his plans. Also I think Venkys didn't trust him either from this point onwards and was happy to see him activate that get out clause. 

didn't Hanley and Duffy want out cos Lambert left? 

Didn't Coyle under cut Warnock who was set for job and the paperwork was on Cheston desk when he went of on holiday then suddenly we appointed Coyle

[roversfan99]

Just now, meadows said:

You know who follows Mowbray?

Haha I have corrected it. But yes I do, and all I'll say is that its a licence to print money.

[philipl]

We may or may not have turned a corner but plenty on here are going round the bend... 

[blueboy3333]

7 hours ago, Stuart said:

More seasons like this one and we will start hearing talk of stability and be back in the rut we were under Bowyer.

Aye, cos it went really well after Bowyer was sacked. Bloody ruts. 

[47er]

There is a plan. A financial one anyway, as a result of those 2 lots of auditors activities during the summer which, at least in part, recommended what sort of player we should go for to earn maximum return. Hence Ben Brereton.

Whether promotion was discussed or not I have no idea.

I suspect the plan didn't envisage home crowds of 12000 so we'll need another plan for that!

[philipl]

Average gate so far of 14,343 after 9 fixtures is I believe about 2,000 down on budget which is about £700,000 down on revenue over a complete season. Or about 10 Bradley Dack toenail clippings.

Edited November 12, 2018 by philipl

[JHRover]

On a separate note I was very disappointed with the match programme on Saturday. Given it was remembrance weekend I would have hoped for some sort of special one-off remembrance programme with a unique cover and tributes to those Rovers' players and staff who served their country.

In the end it was just the same old thing but with a few pages of tributes inside the programme.

Would have been nice to have a large poppy and black cover or whatever rather than just the latest in a long line of frankly childish word-art/spray paint covers.

[darrenrover]

It's all very well and good quoting average attendances which are either inflated or not by who the opposition is and what their travelling support represents. Surely the debate and issue here revolves around Rovers' support and attendances and how that can be improved? Whatever your viewpoint, if you were a 'Darwen Ender', Upper tier BBE family stander etc., the club have p155ed people off, whatever your point if you were not directly involved.

The point now should surely be how to re-engage with fans lost and make everyone feel a part of 'Tony's Dream'. Whether it's liked or not, there are still a good number of fans who will only go to away games.

From my personal perspective, I've gone to Rovers home games for 20 plus years on a bus from one of several Darwen pubs who run busses. This season they're parked Blackburn side of Ewood and are lucky to leave before 5.30pm and then have to go through queuing traffic. Why no priority for home fans and with no escort?

It's about time WE had priority (Rovers fans in general)  were treated accordingly and bugger away fans.

A statement of apology and intent wouldn't go amiss from the owners either!

Oh and don't forget the 'red button'! (I'd have gone to Swansea and would have been going to Wigan without the option)

Finally, the £3 surcharge for 'walk ons' deciding to go to a game at the last minute - ridiculous IMO and another reason to put folk off going.  The club should be coming up with innovative ideas to attract fans, not the contrary.

 

Edited November 12, 2018 by darrenrover

[Mattyblue]

1 hour ago, JHRover said:

On a separate note I was very disappointed with the match programme on Saturday. Given it was remembrance weekend I would have hoped for some sort of special one-off remembrance programme with a unique cover and tributes to those Rovers' players and staff who served their country.

In the end it was just the same old thing but with a few pages of tributes inside the programme.

Would have been nice to have a large poppy and black cover or whatever rather than just the latest in a long line of frankly childish word-art/spray paint covers.

Can’t speak for what’s inside the programme, but Port Vale’s from yesterday:

 

[Stuart]

23 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

Aye, cos it went really well after Bowyer was sacked. Bloody ruts. 

It was a rut though. We were never going any higher than mid table under Bowyer. When the money ran out and players were sold it was only a matter of time before we were in a relegation battle.

My thoughts on Lambert are well documented on here and few agree.

However the problem was not Lambert but who they replaced him with. Much like Allardyce before him.

We seem to have a steady manager followed by a bonkers one. So we are due...

[Leonard Venkhater]

37 minutes ago, Stuart said:

It was a rut though. We were never going any higher than mid table under Bowyer. When the money ran out and players were sold it was only a matter of time before we were in a relegation battle.

My thoughts on Lambert are well documented on here and few agree.

However the problem was not Lambert but who they replaced him with. Much like Allardyce before him.

We seem to have a steady manager followed by a bonkers one. So we are due...

Eek...and TM 's contract is still not sorted..

[Hasta]

5 hours ago, darrenrover said:

Finally, the £3 surcharge for 'walk ons' deciding to go to a game at the last minute - ridiculous IMO and another reason to put folk off going.  The club should be coming up with innovative ideas to attract fans, not the contrary.

Whilst I don't think this is preventing huge numbers of people from going, I still don't get the logic. Has anyone got a link to Waggors comments because I know people say he's addressed this but I can't recall his answer.

I'm presuming it's because they need more staff in the ticket office on match days, I went in the club shop before last Saturdays game and it was packed. They had to put lots more staff on otherwise it would have been queued out of the door. So why aren't the scarves £11 instead of £9 to pay for these extra staff?

The staff required on a match day is there to take increased sales revenue from customers. The extra tickets you sell on a matchday should pay their wages.

Now the club will say you can go online and pre-book your tickets. Get rid of the need for staff completely. But before we know it we will be buying pies and cans of fosters out of a line of vending machines at half time, and Mowbray will be replaced with some kind of Artificial Intelligence prototype designed by EA Sports.  

 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2018 by Hasta

[tomphil]

Maybe allowing him to splurge on Brereton was a sweetner.

[JHRover]

I notice still no update on the scheduled India trip and as far as I can see not referred to in Mowbrays interview today about injuries and the international break. 

Seems what I heard on Saturday might be correct.

Will have to file in the drawer with the senior staff restructure that is still due.

[tomphil]

Is the Pune light about to turn red again on incomings just before the window ....... ?

[Leonard Venkhater]

36 minutes ago, Hasta said:

Whilst I don't think this is preventing huge numbers of people from going, I still don't get the logic. Has anyone got a link to Waggors comments because I know people say he's addressed this but I can't recall his answer.

I'm presuming it's because they need more staff in the ticket office on match days, I went in the club shop before last Saturdays game and it was packed. They had to put lots more staff on otherwise it would have been queued out of the door. So why aren't the scarves £11 instead of £9 to pay for these extra staff?

The staff required on a match day is there to take increased sales revenue from customers. The extra tickets you sell on a matchday should pay their wages.

Now the club will say you can go online and pre-book your tickets. Get rid of the need for staff completely. But before we know it we will be buying pies and cans of fosters out of a line of vending machines a half time and Mowbray will be replaced with some kind of Artificial Intelligence prototype designed by EA Sports.  

 

 

 

Maybe the surcharge is meant to be a bit like the original speed camera with a low threshold...It may seem excessive to fine drivers for doing 33 mph or whatever, but it changes the culture in the end. The trouble is it brings such a  negative response from supporters, who are only just buying into the club again..

[Stuart]

The problem with a surcharge is that it’s punitive. Many of our non-attending fans (not all) are already brassed off with the club for the way they were treated.

The club needs to be removing barriers for fans to return, taking away the excuses, not creating new ones.

Blackburners are a principled people and will happily cut off their nose to spite their faces if their nose slighted them. However, they will come back if they are made to feel wanted.

We can all argue about the pricing levels that have been set but surely we can agree that the surcharge is just unnecessary.

[blueboy3333]

10 hours ago, Hasta said:

Has anyone got a link to Waggors comments because I know people say he's addressed this but I can't recall his answer.

@chaddyrovers is the one that has repeatedly said Waggott has answered the question and given reasons for the surcharge. Chaddy has yet to provide a link.

I can't remember Waggott addressing it either.