Attendances

[Stuart]

So... get more Rovers fans on. Trying to optimise the away fan contingent is Waggott talk.

The whole 8,600 to 10,000 ST holders is tinkering around the edges. We need promotion to solve our financial woes.

We need our OWN away support to be the Ewood atmosphere. It would be interesting to know how many of those are “Away Only” fans though and if this is still a protest or if the just think the Ewood atmosphere is crap so don’t come (self-fulfilling).

If it is just the atmosphere and not a moral stance then Waggott should be engaging the away support to create the space at Ewood that many of them crave. Ideally safe standing but at least some kind of designated singing area - which either means reopening half the DE to Rovers fans or shifting the Riverside fans at that end and that making the DE quarter/fifth/sixth of it unreserved seating (or in a parallel universe - safe standing).

Trouble is, all that would probably happen is those who do sing in the BBE would migrate and turn the home end back into a morgue.

Anyway... away fans in the upper tier until someone has a more radical idea that benefits Rovers.

[Mattyblue]

I don’t agree on the upper tier, but it’s here to stay by the looks of it so I may as well stop mentioning it.

West Brom next week will be full of fans that don’t go near Ewood (glamour cup tie or Burnley game aside), ‘it’s shit at home’. The stats bear that out, we’ve often sold a few hundred away tickets to ST holders before general sale, 2,000 then turn up at a West Brom or Stoke. A PROPER singing section could bring some back, but there seems little appetite at the club to help bring one about.

Since relegation in 2012, for Championship seasons (apart from Coyle season) we have pretty much sold the same amount of STs give or take a 1,000 either way, between 11500 and 13000 home fans in the ground week by week (if you believe official figures).

Only two things will change that 1) promotion or to a lesser extent but at least a spike, a season challenging- how many weeks since 2012 have we spent in the top 6? A near decade of mediocrity.

2) Reduced ST prices ideally in conjunction with a singing section. Huddersfield, a club with a similar fanbase to us are a prime example of how it can be successful. But for me that needs to be timed correctly, you do it on the back of finishing 15th, I’d wager little take up, do it on the back of decent season in which we were knocking around the top 6 and an exciting transfer window and it could work well.

Edited August 24, 2019 by Mattyblue

[47er]

59 minutes ago, Stuart said:

So... get more Rovers fans on. Trying to optimise the away fan contingent is Waggott talk.

The whole 8,600 to 10,000 ST holders is tinkering around the edges. We need promotion to solve our financial woes.

We need our OWN away support to be the Ewood atmosphere. It would be interesting to know how many of those are “Away Only” fans though and if this is still a protest or if the just think the Ewood atmosphere is crap so don’t come (self-fulfilling).

If it is just the atmosphere and not a moral stance then Waggott should be engaging the away support to create the space at Ewood that many of them crave. Ideally safe standing but at least some kind of designated singing area - which either means reopening half the DE to Rovers fans or shifting the Riverside fans at that end and that making the DE quarter/fifth/sixth of it unreserved seating (or in a parallel universe - safe standing).

Trouble is, all that would probably happen is those who do sing in the BBE would migrate and turn the home end back into a morgue.

Anyway... away fans in the upper tier until someone has a more radical idea that benefits Rovers.

We can go for promotion AND in the meantime improve the atmosphere AND devise plans to attract more fans (don't think Waggot is bothered about that though).

[tomphil]

Where did all the Cardiff fans appear from ?   Another turnout to pull Waggot out the do do but another poor home one you have to ask why it looks like home fans will be down on last season and considerably down compared to last time we were in stability mode.

Seems to me all Waggot has done since he's arrived is manage to maintain similar taking whilst reducing home fans in the stadium, is that what he calls a balancing act ?  Easy to blame the fans but right now the walk on prices look a bit stupid to say the least.

[Mattyblue]

11,429 home fans which is pretty much exactly what we had on the August bank holiday Saturday last season.

So not sure crowds will be down, but they certainly haven’t increased and that’s another set of targets missed by Waggott.

Edited August 24, 2019 by Mattyblue

[tomphil]

I suppose Holidays do play a part especially in this league with the earlier start as we move into Autumn people have less to do so more may fancy afternoons on the match. 

Still should always be north of 12k these days though imo.

[Mattyblue]

We haven’t sold enough season tickets, simple as that. Our crowd has always been heavily made up of ST holders.

We’ve only ever sold 2/3000 walk on tickets, we still do. Unfortunately with only 8/9000 season ticket holders, crowds aren’t going to get much higher than this.

[Leonard Venkhater]

11 hours ago, Stuart said:

I’m really not interested in helping to create an atmosphere in the away end. All that does is put pressure on referees.

What we need is to generate our own atmosphere. You would think it was on response to away fans but it isn’t - some of our home games can feel like away ones.

Our atmosphere is generated by a referee injustice or an incident like a huge tackle or save.

...and response to a good away following. Rovers fans usually rise to that...

[Stuart]

Just now, Leonard Venkhater said:

...and response to a good away following. Rovers fans usually rise to that...

They don’t though, that’s my point.

How often did we sit through “you’re support is fugging ship”?

[Mattyblue]

Being the saddo I am I do enjoy looking at the crowds across the country in the paper on a Sunday morning... my happy place 

As an example, Barnsley, yes Barnsley consistently over the last few years have more fans in attendance than us. Not by vast amounts, but higher. They did as a League 1 club, they do now. 

Quick google and their season ticket prices are very similar to ours, so no Bradford discounts at play. Their post early bird prices were actually much higher.

As I’ve said before crowds have shot up across football this past 7/8 years, we are one of the few clubs to stagnate. However, I am sill shocked and I suppose worried that a club I have always seen as a fairly small second tier/third tier yo-yo club like Barnsley are now bringing in a bigger income through the gate than Blackburn Rovers.

Something is sill badly amiss at the club.

Edited August 25, 2019 by Mattyblue

[JBiz]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

Being the saddo I am I do enjoy looking at the crowds across the country in the paper on a Sunday morning... my happy place 

As an example, Barnsley, yes Barnsley consistently over the last few years have more fans in attendance than us. Not by vast amounts, but higher. They did as a League 1 club, they do now. 

Quick google and their season ticket prices are very similar to ours, so no Bradford discounts at play.

As I’ve said before crowds have shot up across football this past 7/8 years, we are one of the few clubs to stagnate. However, I am sill shocked and I suppose worried that a club I have always seen as a fairly small second tier/third tier yo-yo club like Barnsley are now bringing in a bigger income through the gate than Blackburn Rovers.

Something is sill badly amiss at the club.

You come this conclusion using Barnsley - when it’s quite obvious to see why we’d have less fans now due to the last 10 years.

Barnsley for example, most of their history in the second tier. In fact I think they’ve only ever spent one division in the top flight.

When we’ve very recently just visited the third tier for the first time in 35+ years, it seems rather obvious why our attendances have gone backwards.

Thats not to say more can’t be done, it’s just tiresome to see the symptom of our worst spell in 30 years ignored.

Edited August 25, 2019 by Harry The Bass

[Mattyblue]

Our attendances didn’t go backwards in League 1. Most clubs don’t actually lose much support, if any on a relegation to the third tier. They went substantially backwards in the summer we appointed Coyle. We’ve clawed back some lost support since but not yet to the Bowyer era levels.

But ever since relegation in 2012 we haven’t had 10,000 paid for season tickets. The club is stuck in a rut. Being in this league is where we’ve largely been this decade and it looks as if it will continue to be the case (at best) and we are now a relatively small fish in it.

This decade long Venkys induced nadir is of course why, most other clubs have seen substantial increases, we know why we are treading water and who’s to blame, but the reality is we are now a club with a similar income to the Barnsley’s of the world and that doesn’t look like changing any time soon.

Edited August 25, 2019 by Mattyblue

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

47 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Something is sill badly amiss at the club.

It's a combination of problems.

· Blackburn is not an affluent town,it has its small areas of well to do but few and far between.

· The vast majority of the Asians residing in the town will not support the Club and will not set foot in Ewood.

· Too high pricing for the area,ridiculous A+ and waggot tax.

· Lacklustre uninspiring home performances..boring football.

[Mattyblue]

Don’t disagree with those. Blackburn Rovers will be much more reliant on the non Blackburn based fanbase as time goes on as the town’s make up has changed massively in 25 years.

 It was no coincidence that the club is now advertising in areas with a PR postcode, as more and more of our fanbase has left the town and is in other boroughs like Chorley, South Ribble, Ribble Valley Etc.

I would wager the percentage of ST holders we have with a Blackburn address has never been lower.

Edited August 25, 2019 by Mattyblue

[JHRover]

Its happening with Barnsley, it's also happening with Preston, it will happen with Luton, its already happened with Huddersfield. Small clubs that usually float between the 2nd and 3rd divisions are catching up to us and overtaking us.

There are two responses to that. Shrug your shoulders, have a moan, then use it as an excuse for us struggling on the pitch. Or do something about it. 

I'm afraid shuffling prices about a bit whilst maintaining a price increase, coming up with daft competitions (does Waggott seriously think that people are going to cough up for a season ticket just to potentially give themselves a £10,000 lottery ticket?) are not going to deliver the numbers we need.

There's more to it than simply 'freezing' the price and sticking a few posters up and some videos on Twitter. We are way behind the game these days as the club has been reduced to a skeletal staff with little idea on how to grow the fanbase. 

Football is changing and we are getting left behind. Is that because we are as a club behind the times or because Blackburn is a unique place in the country that doesn't react to things the same as everywhere else? I know what I think is the answer. 

The whole club needs revitalising and there needs to be an acceptance that we are falling well short as a club. A quick look at Stanley under Holt shows what can be done on a budget to increase numbers. I've done it to death the lack of interest in doing things at Ewood, even from minor things such as improving the bar offerings.

Weve closed home areas down, moved people around, put no effort into relocating them. The Darwen End area - not my cup of tea but certainly better than it being closed. Most clubs are actively trying to build singing sections next to away fans, we are actively discouraging that by moving away fans upstairs and breaking up our singing section. Just ludicrous but typical of the downscaling operation. 

Reading, Huddersfield have recently succeeded in creating singing sections next to away fans. We failed miserably because we had no interest in promoting it or growing it, eventually shutting it when numbers dropped because it saved a few quid.

Edited August 25, 2019 by JHRover

[AshleyClifford]

16 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

We haven’t sold enough season tickets, simple as that. Our crowd has always been heavily made up of ST holders.

We’ve only ever sold 2/3000 walk on tickets, we still do. Unfortunately with only 8/9000 season ticket holders, crowds aren’t going to get much higher than this.

I can't help but think additional season ticket holders simply come from walk on sales. same with the promotions.

[Mattyblue]

You’d think so but the stats don’t bear that out. 

Our home crowd has always been ST holders plus 2/3000 walk ons, whatever division. It’s just that used to be 18,000/20,000 plus 3,000. Now it’s 9,000 plus 3,000.

Some fans aren’t particularly interested in buying match tickets. I know a couple of people myself that didn’t go at all last season and have bought STs this time.

Edited August 25, 2019 by Mattyblue

[Leonard Venkhater]

34 minutes ago, SIMON GARNERS 194 said:

It's a combination of problems.

· Blackburn is not an affluent town,it has its small areas of well to do but few and far between.

· The vast majority of the Asians residing in the town will not support the Club and will not set foot in Ewood.

· Too high pricing for the area,ridiculous A+ and waggot tax.

· Lacklustre uninspiring home performances..boring football.

A perfect storm...

[Stuart]

2 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Being the saddo I am I do enjoy looking at the crowds across the country in the paper on a Sunday morning... my happy place 

As an example, Barnsley, yes Barnsley consistently over the last few years have more fans in attendance than us. Not by vast amounts, but higher. They did as a League 1 club, they do now. 

Quick google and their season ticket prices are very similar to ours, so no Bradford discounts at play. Their post early bird prices were actually much higher.

As I’ve said before crowds have shot up across football this past 7/8 years, we are one of the few clubs to stagnate. However, I am sill shocked and I suppose worried that a club I have always seen as a fairly small second tier/third tier yo-yo club like Barnsley are now bringing in a bigger income through the gate than Blackburn Rovers.

Something is sill badly amiss at the club.

I’m not sure that’s true, Matty. I’ve done done some very rough analysis and we are fairly comparable.

But if you look at the population of Barnsley and Blackburn (granted the last census data is from 2011), they have about 36% more people than us. So our average home gates as a percentage of the town are about double that of Barnsley.

Without wishing to go off on a tangent, that’s not bad considering 27% of Blackburn’s (2011) population is Muslim, compared to 0.4% of Barnsley’s. Which is not a traditional heartland of local football support.

http://localstats.co.uk/census-demographics/england/north-west/blackburn-with-darwen

https://www.footballwebpages.co.uk/barnsley/attendances/2018-2019

[old darwen blue]

54 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Its happening with Barnsley, it's also happening with Preston, it will happen with Luton, its already happened with Huddersfield. Small clubs that usually float between the 2nd and 3rd divisions are catching up to us and overtaking us.

There are two responses to that. Shrug your shoulders, have a moan, then use it as an excuse for us struggling on the pitch. Or do something about it. 

I'm afraid shuffling prices about a bit whilst maintaining a price increase, coming up with daft competitions (does Waggott seriously think that people are going to cough up for a season ticket just to potentially give themselves a £10,000 lottery ticket?) are not going to deliver the numbers we need.

There's more to it than simply 'freezing' the price and sticking a few posters up and some videos on Twitter. We are way behind the game these days as the club has been reduced to a skeletal staff with little idea on how to grow the fanbase. 

Football is changing and we are getting left behind. Is that because we are as a club behind the times or because Blackburn is a unique place in the country that doesn't react to things the same as everywhere else? I know what I think is the answer. 

The whole club needs revitalising and there needs to be an acceptance that we are falling well short as a club. A quick look at Stanley under Holt shows what can be done on a budget to increase numbers. I've done it to death the lack of interest in doing things at Ewood, even from minor things such as improving the bar offerings.

Weve closed home areas down, moved people around, put no effort into relocating them. The Darwen End area - not my cup of tea but certainly better than it being closed. Most clubs are actively trying to build singing sections next to away fans, we are actively discouraging that by moving away fans upstairs and breaking up our singing section. Just ludicrous but typical of the downscaling operation. 

Reading, Huddersfield have recently succeeded in creating singing sections next to away fans. We failed miserably because we had no interest in promoting it or growing it, eventually shutting it when numbers dropped because it saved a few quid.

This. 

[Mattyblue]

Barnsley is a smaller town than Blackburn (91,000 to 120,000), though Barnsley Metropolitan Borough is bigger than BwD, but the Yorkshire metro boroughs cover large areas, big parts of that borough will contain areas that aren’t particular Barnsley FC friendly as they will be closer to Sheffield, Leeds etc, , but whatever way you slice it, nobody would see Barnsley as a club with more latent support than Blackburn Rovers (or at least they wouldn’t previously)

Our support per population has always been very good and comparable to anybody.

But that’s not the point, the Championship is now full of clubs with bigger catchment areas than us with crowds of 20,000+ each week. In 2001 our crowds were comparable or higher than Nottingham Forest, Wolves, Norwich, Sheff Wed etc. Now we are on a level with PNE and Barnsley.

 Getting 11,000/12,000 of our fans to the ground considering our decade of crap, our catchment area and the changes in the town ain’t bad. However, many clubs in this league have left us in the dust crowd wise and that is the league we are trying to competing in.

In 2001 we had an average crowd of 20,700 that had us as 2nd highest average in the league. Our average crowd last season of 14,550 would still have seen us a respectable 10th in 2001.

To show how the league has changed, that 14,550 saw us 17th in the list last season, whilst even if we had an average of 20,700 it would have only seen us 13th!

Our crowds have actually stood up well considering the nonsense of this decade, but that doesn’t change the fact that the Championship has moved on a pace on the back of an attendance boom with city clubs engaging their much larger catchment areas and getting them through the doors, whilst we tread water year after year.

Edited August 25, 2019 by Mattyblue

[Sparks Rover]

When Venkys feck off and we have an owner who gives a shit, appoints an exciting manager, knocking on the promotion door, crowds will go up

[tomphil]

Like at Hudds or one or two others a very wealthy owner could step in and say right we need these crowds back so cut STs to half price promote the hell out of them and i'll personally subsidise it for a season or two. The aim being get as many back as possible and quickly as possible then concentrate after that on trying to keep hold of as many as possible.

It wouldn't even need that as like Williams did with the increase in tv money he used a bit of it to get punters back in again as crowds were flagging even in the Prem largely due to price increases. Last season with promotion, feel good factor, decent little team emerging again, popular manager and an increase overnight of say 5-6 mill guaranteed before gates and everything else.  That was the perfect opportunity to try a real bold initiative because anyone who knows Blackburn and these North West clubs in this congested areas knows that's what people respond to.  Living in the shadow of Man U/City/Liverpool, Burnley in the Prem and all the other local bragging rights us in these areas i think makes us crave little bits of success for motivation more than anywhere else in the country, it's an absolute football hotbed, a real heartland but in a way there's more clubs to go round than fans so every little thing counts.

What this lot did is take that opportunity and increase prices and look to contain things in the ground and cut costs instead of riding a rare wave of euphoria. They don't know the town and how it works round here and it seems just assumed that promotion despite price rises and alienating people by closing sections would gloss it all over and a host of stay aways would flock back, big mistake.

Said it before at the time i can understand it purely looking at a balance sheet from a business point of view but this is football and Blackburn in particular has challenges and differences some similar areas don't so it is an isolated case in many ways.  Now with Bolton and Bury floundering, Dingles keep staying up and will be hoovering up new young support from inbetween areas on the back of Prem football and Preston doing ok again it is more important than ever to get people in Ewood again regularly not just sitting about hoping for promotion or regular big away followings to boost numbers.

So Messers Waggot/Cheston/Pasha/Raos and whoever else = Wrong strategy at the wrong time.

Then you spent 6 million on a substitute so don't cry about lack of income ! 

Edited August 25, 2019 by tomphil

[MCMC1875]

1 hour ago, JHRover said:

Its happening with Barnsley, it's also happening with Preston, it will happen with Luton, its already happened with Huddersfield. Small clubs that usually float between the 2nd and 3rd divisions are catching up to us and overtaking us.

There are two responses to that. Shrug your shoulders, have a moan, then use it as an excuse for us struggling on the pitch. Or do something about it. 

I'm afraid shuffling prices about a bit whilst maintaining a price increase, coming up with daft competitions (does Waggott seriously think that people are going to cough up for a season ticket just to potentially give themselves a £10,000 lottery ticket?) are not going to deliver the numbers we need.

There's more to it than simply 'freezing' the price and sticking a few posters up and some videos on Twitter. We are way behind the game these days as the club has been reduced to a skeletal staff with little idea on how to grow the fanbase. 

Football is changing and we are getting left behind. Is that because we are as a club behind the times or because Blackburn is a unique place in the country that doesn't react to things the same as everywhere else? I know what I think is the answer. 

The whole club needs revitalising and there needs to be an acceptance that we are falling well short as a club. A quick look at Stanley under Holt shows what can be done on a budget to increase numbers. I've done it to death the lack of interest in doing things at Ewood, even from minor things such as improving the bar offerings.

Weve closed home areas down, moved people around, put no effort into relocating them. The Darwen End area - not my cup of tea but certainly better than it being closed. Most clubs are actively trying to build singing sections next to away fans, we are actively discouraging that by moving away fans upstairs and breaking up our singing section. Just ludicrous but typical of the downscaling operation. 

Reading, Huddersfield have recently succeeded in creating singing sections next to away fans. We failed miserably because we had no interest in promoting it or growing it, eventually shutting it when numbers dropped because it saved a few quid.

The disconnect between the club's recent executives and the fans is plain to see. No regard for fans who watched for decades from the Nuttall Street Enclosure/JW Lower or those who spent years in the Darwen End or BBE upper. Bean counters and nothing more running the club. All these changes are losing fans left, right and centre.

FOV.

Edited August 25, 2019 by MCMC1875

[pk1875]

5 hours ago, JHRover said:

Its happening with Barnsley, it's also happening with Preston, it will happen with Luton, its already happened with Huddersfield. Small clubs that usually float between the 2nd and 3rd divisions are catching up to us and overtaking us.

There are two responses to that. Shrug your shoulders, have a moan, then use it as an excuse for us struggling on the pitch. Or do something about it. 

I'm afraid shuffling prices about a bit whilst maintaining a price increase, coming up with daft competitions (does Waggott seriously think that people are going to cough up for a season ticket just to potentially give themselves a £10,000 lottery ticket?) are not going to deliver the numbers we need.

There's more to it than simply 'freezing' the price and sticking a few posters up and some videos on Twitter. We are way behind the game these days as the club has been reduced to a skeletal staff with little idea on how to grow the fanbase. 

Football is changing and we are getting left behind. Is that because we are as a club behind the times or because Blackburn is a unique place in the country that doesn't react to things the same as everywhere else? I know what I think is the answer. 

The whole club needs revitalising and there needs to be an acceptance that we are falling well short as a club. A quick look at Stanley under Holt shows what can be done on a budget to increase numbers. I've done it to death the lack of interest in doing things at Ewood, even from minor things such as improving the bar offerings.

Weve closed home areas down, moved people around, put no effort into relocating them. The Darwen End area - not my cup of tea but certainly better than it being closed. Most clubs are actively trying to build singing sections next to away fans, we are actively discouraging that by moving away fans upstairs and breaking up our singing section. Just ludicrous but typical of the downscaling operation. 

Reading, Huddersfield have recently succeeded in creating singing sections next to away fans. We failed miserably because we had no interest in promoting it or growing it, eventually shutting it when numbers dropped because it saved a few quid.

When Waggot closed the DE, without any or minimal warning a few of us met with him down at Ewood. We suggested the W01 singing section in the jack Walker Lower. Waggot nodded and agreed, stating the club will work with you on this idea, the social media guy will be in touch.... What happened?

Nobody got in touch
The Club did nothing to promote it
The Club moved away fans to Riverside half of DE
The Club then moved away fans upstairs...

Before people say the JW Lower didn't attract numbers, The DE section got split around the ground, the club did nothing to help out with the W01 and then moved away fans as far as possible...

This left me this year not buying a season ticket, I miss half the games due to work. This year the thought of paying £700 to be next to an empty stand appealed like a hole in the head.

Buy tickets on a match by match when not working was the plan. Yesterday I got an early finish (12.00) and thought should I get down and buy a ticket? Not prepared to pay the additional £3.00 to do this so watched it online instead...... Makes no sense at all.