Attendances

[chaddyrovers]

43 minutes ago, Stuart said:

You honestly have no imagination so I’m not surprised that these ideas go over your head. In one breath you good idea and in the next undermine all of them with some safe option. I thought after your lengthy ban you had woken up a bit but you are a slipping back into your old habits.

Where have I blamed fans? The blame for our loss of fanbase lies squarely with our owners and those whom they have listened to - and now employ.

Waggott is paid big money to understand his stakeholder needs and wants, and to incorporate this into a successful business strategy, not just keep squeezing while ignoring us.

You need to read back the last sentence I’ve quoted above and have a little think.

no imagination? I came up with a number of ideas Stuart in the summer and before. 

I've took my step daughter to Rovers this season as a season ticket holder and she enjoyed it every time. I got into Rovers and football cos my dad took me to Rovers and I was hook. my 1st game was league cup in season 93/94. I have so many great memories from the era and I still remember those days like yesterday and alot of my favourite players are from that era. Just like the Hughes era.  

You cannot come up with a strategy to get back every fan. I gave you example before of a diehard Rovers fan who wants to attend home game but simply cannot not due to reasons ive gave. 

Maybe you should email Steve Waggott with your ideas and see whether you can meet him to discuss your views

[Paul]

Driving along LBR yesterday and Simply the Best came on the radio. We were all immediately thrown back 25 years..........sadly the pavements were thronged with hundreds not the thousands of old.

Driving in to Ewood these days you would hardly know there is a football ground let alone a match day.

[JHRover]

As we've seen with the nonsensical attendance and ticket sales figures thrown about by Waggott over the last 12 months I expect whatever the true number of bums on seats over the course of a season he'll manage to massage the numbers and somehow manage to ensure the numbers don't cast his decisions into the spotlight. 

I suspect he is being judged on income and losses so if his plans come to fruition he'll probably still be able to point towards an improvement, however slight, on that front at his meeting with the owners. Obviously this overlooks the big problems with numbers through the turnstiles and the quite staggering reality that he is overseeing a decline in numbers even on what we were getting under Kean and Bowyer not long ago.

The trajectory across the Championship has been an upward curve in numbers through turnstiles, even when you look at small clubs like Barnsley or Huddersfield who 6-7 years ago were getting less on than us but are now ahead of us. 

We seem to be bucking the trend. Where does responsibility lie? With vague generalisations like 'people are doing other things' or 'the weather isn't nice' or alternatively with significant errors made and continuing to be made by the club and those running it who have other priorities than getting the ground as full as possible, who simply don't understand their target audience and are completely on the wrong page with pricing and falling well short of rivals in terms of promotional activities and pushing this forward. I think only Hull can come close to us in terms of numbers dropping off and they're another lot who have antagonised their own fans through ridiculous pricing, shutting stands and annoying people. 

The club needs to wake up and quickly. We will never have a large dormant support, that's life, but we simply cannot afford to allow already bottom end gates diminish and see further people drop off. I believe we're at the stage where we are starting to eat into the core through charging silly prices and people are going to get fed up with it. Add to that dull football and dreadful atmosphere and people will be put off.

Trouble is that all that will happen is those at the club will use this as 'evidence' to try and diminsh expectations and enhance rivals.

Edited September 15, 2019 by JHRover

[tomphil]

His ticket price increase will probably have maintained the income levels despite crowds slowly dwindling but it'll bite him on the arse sooner or later especially if away crowds don't boost it significantly this season.

Crowds have now stagnated again for a host of reasons but price will be an issue to some no doubt and the bang for your buck is more important in Blackburn than a lot of other places. The main factor of course is form and general feel good factor or to dress it up another way - ambition.

They've been quite active in the transfer market but that's not caught the imagination and these days we aren't talking about the missing thousands we are talking about a decreasing of hardcore regulars. Just another thousand or two would be most welcome, would give a better feel about the place and even more so if a good lump of them were filling up the BBE lower every home game.

Lets hope it picks up after Christmas - ( sorry for mentioning that dreaded word in September )

 

Edited September 15, 2019 by tomphil

[AshleyClifford]

1 hour ago, tomphil said:

Why would Millwall ever bring 1000 or more up here unless they were going great near the top ?

Their followings at Ewood tend to average probably around 500 being anywhere from 300 to a thousand odd exception aside over last ten years.

People have serious over expectations of away followings in this league the majority of bog standard clubs similar to us outside the local area bring bugger all unless doing well or whatever.

Makes our away followings even more impressive all things considered averaging around a 1000 every season since we were dragged out the Prem.  Lets face it we've never had much to shout about in this league over the last 7 years and now it's coming home to roost, in these parts it usually gets worse a lot quicker than it gets better.

I guess I thought there would have been fewer home supporters on, thankfully I was wrong. Millwall have brought 1k on a Saturday previously.  Yesterday’s crowd will almost certainly be the lowest of the season.

[Stuart]

48 minutes ago, JHRover said:

As we've seen with the nonsensical attendance and ticket sales figures thrown about by Waggott over the last 12 months I expect whatever the true number of bums on seats over the course of a season he'll manage to massage the numbers and somehow manage to ensure the numbers don't cast his decisions into the spotlight. 

I suspect he is being judged on income and losses so if his plans come to fruition he'll probably still be able to point towards an improvement, however slight, on that front at his meeting with the owners. Obviously this overlooks the big problems with numbers through the turnstiles and the quite staggering reality that he is overseeing a decline in numbers even on what we were getting under Kean and Bowyer not long ago.

The trajectory across the Championship has been an upward curve in numbers through turnstiles, even when you look at small clubs like Barnsley or Huddersfield who 6-7 years ago were getting less on than us but are now ahead of us. 

We seem to be bucking the trend. Where does responsibility lie? With vague generalisations like 'people are doing other things' or 'the weather isn't nice' or alternatively with significant errors made and continuing to be made by the club and those running it who have other priorities than getting the ground as full as possible, who simply don't understand their target audience and are completely on the wrong page with pricing and falling well short of rivals in terms of promotional activities and pushing this forward. I think only Hull can come close to us in terms of numbers dropping off and they're another lot who have antagonised their own fans through ridiculous pricing, shutting stands and annoying people. 

The club needs to wake up and quickly. We will never have a large dormant support, that's life, but we simply cannot afford to allow already bottom end gates diminish and see further people drop off. I believe we're at the stage where we are starting to eat into the core through charging silly prices and people are going to get fed up with it. Add to that dull football and dreadful atmosphere and people will be put off.

Trouble is that all that will happen is those at the club will use this as 'evidence' to try and diminsh expectations and enhance rivals.

Very well put.

Increasing our crowds is hard work but it must be done. Asking the hardcore to dig deeper and deeper each year will result in a lot more dropping out. Particularly as Mowbray’s 2019 brand is so much less exciting than his 2009 one was.

[Mattyblue]

Just now, AshleyClifford said:

I guess I thought there would have been fewer home supporters on, thankfully I was wrong. Millwall have brought 1k on a Saturday previously.  Yesterday’s crowd will almost certainly be the lowest of the season.

On a Saturday, perhaps.

[chaddyrovers]

3 hours ago, JHRover said:

 

Some people like to make excuses for the Trust by claiming nobody wanted to buy us. If true perhaps then they could have handed it over for less. It wasnt their club to make money from after all. 

It seems that the trust and Walker family wanted rid asap that season. 

I would like to know how many people was interested in the club during the period was for sale? 

what advice did Williams and Finn give to the trust and Walker's family? did they suggest to them to keep the club and keep running the club as they where? Did either see where the TV deal were going? 

Wasn't David Brown(Rovers vice chairman) going around India trying to sell the club? 

4 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Aren’t we? I was hoping to wake up from the nightmare, Dallas style, any day now.

You said the club wasn’t even sellable as a PL club, I said the PL has completely transformed in 10 years, as proven recently with an 80% stake of a mediocre club like Southampton being sold for over £200 million.

10 years ago we were sold lock, stock and barrel as an established PL club, debt free for £20 million.

So just maybe there’s a little bit more interest and a market for buying PL clubs these days, what do you reckon?

Yes the PL ha been transformed in the last 10 years but we are in championship. 

So how many people would be interested in buying Rovers and willing to cover their losses each season

[Mattyblue]

I’m talking about us in the PL (as you brought it up) and the short sightedness of the Walkers who gave away a fantastic football club.

Someone to take over this hollowed out husk of a club in the Championship is a different issue.

Edited September 15, 2019 by Mattyblue

[OldEwoodBlue]

43 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

It seems that the trust and Walker family wanted rid asap that season. 

I would like to know how many people was interested in the club during the period was for sale? 

what advice did Williams and Finn give to the trust and Walker's family? did they suggest to them to keep the club and keep running the club as they where? Did either see where the TV deal were going? 

Wasn't David Brown(Rovers vice chairman) going around India trying to sell the club? 

Yes the PL ha been transformed in the last 10 years but we are in championship. 

So how many people would be interested in buying Rovers and willing to cover their losses each season

And at the time Suhail was working for Kentaro who "fixed" the Venky deal and the rest is history although Suhail is now "working for the owners".

This is a matter of fact. Still to be explained.

[1864roverite]

Maybe it is time for the club to have a love in with the fans. I mean what else  could they really do?

 

Saturday was a prime fixture to target youth who have just gone back to school, I am sure a ticket offer with some sort of additional incentive could also have worked in the clubs favour.

There are all sorts of things they could try/gimmicks for example the price of beer and food could be attached to the price of a ticket, it is clear the price of a pint and a pie could be lowered, lower costs often mean bigger sales. 
The stay away fans need targeting with an incentive. Not everyone will come back as some state, there are those that wont return because of Venkys, because they have found other things to do on match dat/employment and family issues also play their part.

A sustained market approach might be too late for this year but it is clear to me that as numbers continue to dwindle something needs to be done asap. seeing 11500 at Ewood Saturday was very sad.

[PeteJD13]

14 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

no imagination? I came up with a number of ideas Stuart in the summer and before. 

I've took my step daughter to Rovers this season as a season ticket holder and she enjoyed it every time. I got into Rovers and football cos my dad took me to Rovers and I was hook. my 1st game was league cup in season 93/94. I have so many great memories from the era and I still remember those days like yesterday and alot of my favourite players are from that era. Just like the Hughes era.  

You cannot come up with a strategy to get back every fan. I gave you example before of a diehard Rovers fan who wants to attend home game but simply cannot not due to reasons ive gave. 

Maybe you should email Steve Waggott with your ideas and see whether you can meet him to discuss your views

Problem with that Chaddy is I emailed Lynsey and Steve last and had a meeting in May, I suggested looking at flexible season tickets or 10 game tickets for £100 quid, I suggested they looked at a number of clubs that offer creative ticketing options. I suggested they updated strikers lounge to try and encourage parents with young kids like me to attend.

What have they done? nowt.

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, PeteJD13 said:

Problem with that Chaddy is I emailed Lynsey and Steve last and had a meeting in May, I suggested looking at flexible season tickets or 10 game tickets for £100 quid, I suggested they looked at a number of clubs that offer creative ticketing options. I suggested they updated strikers lounge to try and encourage parents with young kids like me to attend.

What have they done? nowt.

We talked between us that sort of ticket for fans who could only 7 or 8 a game due to varied reason.

Have you emailed them since that meeting? 

[roversfan99]

3 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

We talked between us that sort of ticket for fans who could only 7 or 8 a game due to varied reason.

Have you emailed them since that meeting? 

Theyve invited Pete in for a meeting which suggests that they are happy to listen to any ideas to increase attendances. Theyve then chosen not to implement any of Petes ideas, which is their prerogative, or in fact do anything at all, with the result being sales again below target. The onus is not with Pete to chase it up again!

[tomphil]

11 hours ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

And at the time Suhail was working for Kentaro who "fixed" the Venky deal and the rest is history although Suhail is now "working for the owners".

This is a matter of fact. Still to be explained.

The 'middleman' again, i think it's very naive to assume he has no input at all into comings and goings at Ewood and just flits between here and India with his ear to the ground.

[PeteJD13]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Theyve invited Pete in for a meeting which suggests that they are happy to listen to any ideas to increase attendances. Theyve then chosen not to implement any of Petes ideas, which is their prerogative, or in fact do anything at all, with the result being sales again below target. The onus is not with Pete to chase it up again!

actually I did follow it up : my email is below

Hi Lynsey

I hope you have had a nice summer, with the club putting the ticket details out yesterday. I did wonder if there had been any thoughts or progress from the club ( or if it’s an idea that would work ) around block ticket buying or flexible weekend only season tickets?. Bradford City have a scheme where you can buy a seat for £70 then its £10  a game £6 for juniors per game you purchase after that.

If not we’ll have to get season tickets it’s just a waste as we cannot use the midweek tickets.  When we met idea’s like crèche/improving strikers were mentioned is this still something that the club is still potentially pursuing .

I was advised it was forwarded to the head of commercial to respond, they never did

 

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

52 minutes ago, tomphil said:

The 'middleman' again, i think it's very naive to assume he has no input at all into comings and goings at Ewood and just flits between here and India with his ear to the ground.

I'd give my left bollock to be involved in the running of the club I support AND be paid a handsome salary to do it...what a cream dream job!

[Blue blood]

Poor attendances to me are down to 3 things: 

1) Cost - like it or not we've been in an age of austerity and that makes a difference. There's a reason shops like Aldi are growing, money generally is tight. Without wanting to defame Blackburn or the north west in general, I think it's fair to say Blackburn isn't the most affluent of areas, and relatively speaking the same for the north west. Whilst I'm not sure it's the sole or even primary factor, it does make a difference both practically and psychologically having higher prices than previously.

2) Winning / exciting football - probably in that order. We saw how when we got promoted for the final game we got a capacity crowd pretty much. Plus attendances in League 1 were better (I think). Why, in part because winning football tends to attract people, and nudge those on the fence into coming. Whilst there's no guarantees in football, if you think there's a better likelihood of you winning, it is a more attractive day out. This probably affects most people from full out bandwagon followers (can't say glory hunters at Rovers any more) to casual fans, all the way through to regular fans who don't have season tickets. (Again not trying to say all these fans are fickle, glory hunters etc. but that winning football influences people's eagerness to go.) Given we look set for another season of mid table nothingness, on top of a poor second half of last season, added in the attractiveness of the championship is much less than seeing the stars of the premier league, and it all amounts to less motivation to go. I think we're treading water with TM, and I reckon that' it's hard to motivate people to come for what looks to be another season of mid table slog. 

3) Fewer new fans coming through. I often share a story from teaching a footy mad class in Carlisle - over a decade ago now - where they all loved footy but all supported manure or liverpool, over their local team. With the saturation of seeing the big clubs very easily, with only the big clubs winning things, with all our media from match of the day through to shoot magazines glorifying only the top 6 and top La Liga teams, is it any wonder that kids decide to support these teams instead. In my opinion the imbalance of football with the power towards only a few big top clubs with a chance of winning anything is going to kill football, with most League 1 & 2 teams, and probably a few championship teams, not having a fan base left within the next 50, certainly 100 years.  Digression aside, I'd say Rovers like most other clubs, probably have less fans coming through as the big 6 hoover them up. 

 

To me that's a pretty bleak picture, but also one Rovers can actively combat on 3 points. Cost could be adjusted, with the many excellent and different suggestions people have made being a part of it. Winning football, a better manager could be instilled giving a sense of optimism (the most unlikely of the 3.) And young fans could be addressed in a whole host of ways from getting them to the ground - school tickets, cheap kid tickets, through to community work. In many ways the latter is a losing battle for many fans, but if we can stem the tide of children leaving for the big 6, hopefully we can survive long enough for the big 6 to bog off to a European league or better yet implode. As it is, without action on any of these 3 points, and I would suggest in co-ordination, then attendances won't get better. 

 

[chaddyrovers]

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Theyve invited Pete in for a meeting which suggests that they are happy to listen to any ideas to increase attendances. Theyve then chosen not to implement any of Petes ideas, which is their prerogative, or in fact do anything at all, with the result being sales again below target. The onus is not with Pete to chase it up again!

well he did follow it actually. Thought Pete would. We have discuss this between the 3 of us to death. I don't want go over this time after time. 

3 hours ago, PeteJD13 said:

actually I did follow it up : my email is below

Hi Lynsey

I hope you have had a nice summer, with the club putting the ticket details out yesterday. I did wonder if there had been any thoughts or progress from the club ( or if it’s an idea that would work ) around block ticket buying or flexible weekend only season tickets?. Bradford City have a scheme where you can buy a seat for £70 then its £10  a game £6 for juniors per game you purchase after that.

If not we’ll have to get season tickets it’s just a waste as we cannot use the midweek tickets.  When we met idea’s like crèche/improving strikers were mentioned is this still something that the club is still potentially pursuing .

I was advised it was forwarded to the head of commercial to respond, they never did

 

Thanks Pete for the respond. I will DM you later in the day

[Crimpshrine]

A friend of mine got a phone call from the ticket office asking why he hadn't renewed his ST.

He was honest with his answers - lack of atmosphere in the ground, lack of feel good factor generally. Hopefully Rovers will take note of any responses to these phone calls.

I heard 1,700 ST holders didn't renew this year and there were about 500/600 new STs sold. So a net decrease of 1,200 / 1,100. They have a lot of phone calls to make! 

 

[only2garners]

Close crimpshrine. The numbers are about 1,000 down - 1,700 non renewals offset by 700 new ST holders.

As far as I'm aware every one of the 1,700 have already been contacted. 

[arbitro]

Just now, only2garners said:

Close crimpshrine. The numbers are about 1,000 down - 1,700 non renewals offset by 700 new ST holders.

As far as I'm aware every one of the 1,700 have already been contacted. 

Have they actually contacted the new renewals to ask why they have bought one? 

[PeteJD13]

Just now, arbitro said:

Have they actually contacted the new renewals to ask why they have bought one? 

they haven't contacted me and this is my ST since 15/16

[tomphil]

That's a hell of a drop off for a club like us over one summer regardless of a healthy newbie intake.  They they supposed to be trying to grow the crowds not just balance the books with price rises and relying on newbies to cover the slide.

There is always natural wastage but nearly 2k you'd expect out of 20k crowds not half that.  There must be an underlying reason for a lot of those after all last season didn't turn put too bad in the end and theres been some signings in summer, puzzling as they are at times.

Edited September 16, 2019 by tomphil

[Mattyblue]

3 hours ago, only2garners said:

Close crimpshrine. The numbers are about 1,000 down - 1,700 non renewals offset by 700 new ST holders.

As far as I'm aware every one of the 1,700 have already been contacted. 

Waggott said in early August that we were just 250 behind last season’s total. And he said that with six weeks of sales still to go, so a fan reading those comments could make a fair assumption that we’d be pretty much  matching last season by the time they went off sale ... obviously not. So lies from the club?

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17812362.rovers-couldnt-done-more-push-season-ticket-sales/

 

Edited September 16, 2019 by Mattyblue