Attendances

[Paul]

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

@JoeHarvey so you consider £22-29 for a ticket at home to Luton, upped to £25-32 if you can only decide on matchday whether to go, as "dirt cheap?"

Season tickets are no longer at bargain prices either, so they could do more to get more bums on seats, but ultimately it seems Waggott and co seem more focused on milking the existing fan base. Presumably he sees there being more to gain by doing that.

My son's season ticket means paying about £15/match. That is an absolute bargain. I'm 65 I think I pay about £8.

I went to Chorley three weeks ago. It was £12 and that was an OAP reduction. I will think twice about going again as that price is ridiculous.

How cheap are we supposed to become?

Edited September 18, 2019 by Paul

[DeeCee]

2 hours ago, Blue blood said:

Already answered by others - but much easier to do if fans are already thinking about it, building on feel good factor etc. 

No they are not. Contrast with cinema, meal out they ain't cheap. Add in all the food, programme, transport etc. And it becomes even more costly. Also for someone on minimum wage or unemployed etc. it is a heck of a lot of money. Without going political food bank useage is on the rise suggesting a ton of people are struggling to get by too. Not saying footy instead of food but maybe shows not everyone can easily afford our tickets. 

But it puts off last minute and spontaneous decisions to come. 

It's about reducing barriers, as is the above. The more barriers reduced the less people are out off and the more people come. Same as the above. 

Football is a social thing - as being on here shows. People are more likely to go with friends and family so if there are more people you can socialise with going you are more likely to go. One case in point in our family is my Dad has gone less since my sister emegrated as opposed to living 10 minutes away. 

Can't comment. 

Not true - if food prices contribute to a negative experience and this means people decide not to return then it does affect attendances. It can be a cumulative factor in making people less likely to go. 

Perhaps the manner in how it was done, regardless of whether it is better? The attitude is as important as the action and the club has been pretty high handed at times with these things. 

No but would put money on a podcast / fan site increasing club publicity, awareness and strengthening and growing the fanbase. Think a modern day equivalent could do wonders for Rovers. 

Someone answered they did. Hopefully not again. 

See point 7 cumulative effect on customer satisfaction and returnees. 

Not thought about this at all. Has anyone done a survey of fans to see where most fall. 

You must have X ray vision then! 

Agreed.

I think freebies for kids is a good thing too. But it isn't about increasing attendees but rather cultivating new fans. 

Probably not. But again it's what kind of experience we are trying to create. Every little helps and hinders. 

Put it this way if it were a restaurant - admittedly different business- it'd be very easy to clock things that attract people in, but also things that put people off and reduce the ambiance. No one goes to a restaurant for the lighting for example but it can put people off returning. The club needs to be asking how we can make the experience as positive as possible and reduce barriers to people coming as well as what attracts them. Again, we really aren't that fan centric as a club since the cluckers have arrived. 

King of the multi-quotes. ?

[Paul]

I keep reading of the importance of getting kids in the ground. Yes it builds numbers in the stadium on the day but it does very, very little to build a regular long-term attendance.

I know many young people who attended for free or peanuts in the 90s. All consider themselves Rovers fans. The vast majority no longer live in Lancashire let alone the local area.

I have no problem with filling the ground with cheap or free kids seats. Please let's not fall in to the trap of believing this will generate a solid regularly attending fan base for the future. It won't. Young people have to be mobile to build careers and lives, many leave the area - for good.

I took four children to every home game for 10-12 years. Today one has continued to attend, another has returned after ten years of not being able to go to matches, two haven't been in a decade. At best that's a 50% success.

Edited September 18, 2019 by Paul

[K-Hod]

Not an issue with season ticket prices, they are right enough, I think.

It’s the match day ones tbh.

[Blue blood]

Just now, Paul said:

I keep reading of the importance of getting kids in the ground. Yes it builds numbers in the stadium on the day but it does very, very little to build a regular long-term attendance.

I know many young people who attended for free or peanuts in the 90s. All consider themselves Rovers fans. The vast majority no longer live in Lancashire let alone the local area.

I have no problem with filling the ground with cheap or free kids seats. Please let's not fall in to the trap of believing this will generate a solid regularly attending fan base for the future. It won't. Young people have to be mobile to build careers and lives, many leave the area - for good.

I took four children to every home game for 10-12 years. Today one has continued to attend, another has returned after ten years of not being able to go to matches, two haven't been in a decade. At best that's a 50% success.

But imagine if we didn't make that effort. I think the percentage would be even lower. If kids aren't introduced to Rovers early it's less likely to be picked up in later life. 

Also kids in the ground is a key element but must be supported by other things to get/keep them involved. 

Not criticising your effort btw - sounds really great way of introducing kids to Rovers. 

Edited September 18, 2019 by Blue blood

[DeeCee]

10 minutes ago, Paul said:

I keep reading of the importance of getting kids in the ground. Yes it builds numbers in the stadium on the day but it does very, very little to build a regular long-term attendance.

I know many young people who attended for free or peanuts in the 90s. All consider themselves Rovers fans. The vast majority no longer live in Lancashire let alone the local area.

I have no problem with filling the ground with cheap or free kids seats. Please let's not fall in to the trap of believing this will generate a solid regularly attending fan base for the future. It won't. Young people have to be mobile to build careers and lives, many leave the area - for good.

I took four children to every home game for 10-12 years. Today one has continued to attend, another has returned after ten years of not being able to go to matches, two haven't been in a decade. At best that's a 50% success.

Every little helps.

[Stuart]

19 minutes ago, Paul said:

My son's season ticket means paying about £15/match. That is an absolute bargain. I'm 65 I think I pay about £8.

I went to Chorley three weeks ago. It was £12 and that was an OAP reduction. I will think twice about going again as that price is ridiculous.

How cheap are we supposed to become?

You think £12 is ridiculous because you are an OAP? Aren’t low earners under 65 also entitled to think the price they have to pay even at Rovers is ridiculous? 

The view of prices paid is surely relative to individual income and even value. To some people £15 a game is not an absolute bargain.

[Stuart]

5 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

Not an issue with season ticket prices, they are right enough, I think.

It’s the match day ones tbh.

Again. It’s great you can afford a ST. Not everyone can. And those who can’t are expected to pay top whack to watch individual matches. It doesn’t add up for a lot of people.

[gumboots]

44 minutes ago, Paul said:

I keep reading of the importance of getting kids in the ground. Yes it builds numbers in the stadium on the day but it does very, very little to build a regular long-term attendance.

I know many young people who attended for free or peanuts in the 90s. All consider themselves Rovers fans. The vast majority no longer live in Lancashire let alone the local area.

I have no problem with filling the ground with cheap or free kids seats. Please let's not fall in to the trap of believing this will generate a solid regularly attending fan base for the future. It won't. Young people have to be mobile to build careers and lives, many leave the area - for good.

I took four children to every home game for 10-12 years. Today one has continued to attend, another has returned after ten years of not being able to go to matches, two haven't been in a decade. At best that's a 50% success.

My 4 kids also attended as ST holders back in the day and, as you say, they no longer attend regularly as 2 live abroad, one lives in the north east and the other lives south of Manchester and works some weekends. However, that doesn't mean that getting them in as kids was a bad idea. If we dont engage kids interest there will soon be no fans in the grounds. Some will carry on attending. Some will attend as and when they can. Others will attend occasionally on visits home. But all our kids would still say they're fans and would no doubt attend regularly if distance, work commitments and family allowed. 50% success is a pretty good rate. 

[Mercer]

8 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

 Nope. Mercer made out that it was perhaps Mowbrays brand of football which is stopping him from attending, then diverging to his credibility on a topic dedicated for attendances. 

My point remains that should we be promoted then he’ll be back, suggesting it is not the brand of football that we play but our current stature in the game which is bothering him. Incidentally our stature in the game has risen year on year with TM involved so it’s not out of the question we won’t be back very soon.

Also it is you that has decided people are bitter or annoyed. I’m certainly not.

I think, in the main, our football under Mowbray has been awful.

I read and hear, in my opinion, far too much contradictory stuff from both Mowbray and Waggott.  Personally, I do not trust them.  In my opinion, they do not 'bleed blue'.

To me, it's similar to a restaurant, if you don't like, or trust, the owner(s) / management then you vote with your feet / wallet.

As for promotion to the PL, I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell of that happening under Mowbray / Waggott.

If we do get promoted, I would only get back to buying season tickets if I thought we had a progressive management who, in my opinion, had the best interests of the the club at heart and the product on the field of play was good.

IMO, @Tyrone Shoelaces is spot on, many, many 'diehards' have been sickened and I think there will need to be seismic changes in management and attitudes at Ewood to entice them back.   

Edited September 18, 2019 by Mercer

[roversfan99]

2 hours ago, Paul said:

My son's season ticket means paying about £15/match. That is an absolute bargain. I'm 65 I think I pay about £8.

I went to Chorley three weeks ago. It was £12 and that was an OAP reduction. I will think twice about going again as that price is ridiculous.

How cheap are we supposed to become?

For a start, you presumably bought an individual ticket at Chorley, obviously a season ticket comes with an economy of scale in buying 23 tickets in bulk. That said, they are very high prices for that standard at Chorley.

My main issue that I highlighted was suggesting that our match tickets are "dirt cheap." I dont believe they are. 22-29 + 3 surcharge (depends on circumstance whether its "avoidable") you can argue whether its value for money, compare it to other teams etc but I think "dirt cheap" is a very difficult description to justify 

I said before about season tickets that my issue is not that we must reduce the prices. Its that the club cannot do anything to increase attendances, which is wrong. It always can. If they reduced prices, numbers would go up, whether overall turnover would go up or down, in terms of increased numbers v decreased prices, we can only speculate. 

They froze season tickets this season but increased them last season after the momentum of promotion which was a big mistake IMO at a point of potential increase, Waggott thought short term. Our season ticket prices used to be famously low compared to league rivals, nowadays they are much more in line. So the last sentence you put implying that they are already really low is not particularly accurate. 

We seem to have missed sales targets two years running if im not mistaken so something seems amiss.

[Paul]

8 hours ago, Stuart said:

You think £12 is ridiculous because you are an OAP? Aren’t low earners under 65 also entitled to think the price they have to pay even at Rovers is ridiculous? 

The view of prices paid is surely relative to individual income and even value. To some people £15 a game is not an absolute bargain.

No I think it indicates the price at Chorley is ridiculous. I've just checked the full price and find it's £15. Last season it was £10, or at least that's what a friend asked me for when he got me a ticket. A 50% increase. Of course low earners are entitled to think the price at Rovers is ridiculous, people are entitled to think what they want. This doesn't though get away from the fact Rovers prices, if one buys an ST, are a bargain. I don't know the exact figure but from reading this thread our crowd is +/- 80% ST holders so these fans are looked after.

The view of prices can be relative to income but it should, in my view, be relative to the general market. I haven't researched every Championship club but often read here about WBA at £20/match. Rovers BBE walk on price, without the surcharge, averages £27/match - 2 x Cat A+ at £40, 7 x Cat A at £28, 14 x Cat B at £25. An ST for the BBE is £349 - £15/game which is a saving of 55%.

If the club reduced prices to the WBA level then the ST price should be reduced pro rata which brings the ST price per game down to £9. If this didn't happen ST holders would have every right to complain they are being treated differently yet make up 80% of the crowd. For a senior this would become £96 for an ST or £4/match.

What I cannot get anyone to answer is how this makes financial sense? The club are being asked to massively reduce match day income to increase the crowd size. Fair enough but there is no guarantee it will work. The club would be stuck with the reduction for at least one season with no apparent method of replacing the income. I understand the argument re increased food and drink sales etc. but there is little to demonstrate the low value/profit on these items would make a significant impact. It's doubtful we could even cope with a huge surge in demand at half time. There must also be a question re who actually profits from increased food and drink sales. Is this a franchise or concession paid as a fixed season long price? Is it profit sharing? Do we know exactly how this works?

Reducing prices in this manner is a dangerous gamble.

If by "even value" you are describing the standard of football, £15 for National League or £15 for Championship. I think I can see the relative value there. As for price being relative to income I understand your point but would say two things. My son lives off benefits, my income is below the tax threshold so I feel I understand low income and the need to budget accordingly.

 

[JHRover]

17 hours ago, JoeHarvey said:

 

Our club does more than most in terms of matchday experience, multi-faith rooms, family stand, cheap ticket prices, blues bar, Fan Zone outside, free fruit bags for the kids... What more could they be doing? 

I don't agree. 

Pretty much every club I've visited in the last few years has all of those things.

The matchday experience at Ewood is awful. Partly because it is only a third full but also because there is very little imagination or idea as to how to improve it.

Complete absence of a singing/flag waving section after the club decided to shut it down last year.

[Paul]

 

 

9 hours ago, DeeCee said:

Every little helps.

Absolutely

 

8 hours ago, gumboots said:

My 4 kids also attended as ST holders back in the day and, as you say, they no longer attend regularly as 2 live abroad, one lives in the north east and the other lives south of Manchester and works some weekends. However, that doesn't mean that getting them in as kids was a bad idea. If we dont engage kids interest there will soon be no fans in the grounds. Some will carry on attending. Some will attend as and when they can. Others will attend occasionally on visits home. But all our kids would still say they're fans and would no doubt attend regularly if distance, work commitments and family allowed. 50% success is a pretty good rate. 

9 hours ago, Blue blood said:

But imagine if we didn't make that effort. I think the percentage would be even lower. If kids aren't introduced to Rovers early it's less likely to be picked up in later life. 

Also kids in the ground is a key element but must be supported by other things to get/keep them involved. 

Not criticising your effort btw - sounds really great way of introducing kids to Rovers. 

I'm 100% in favour of getting more kids in to the ground. It will have some impact but it is never going to be a significant long-term one. Yes 50% in our household is a great success but I very much doubt this is the general picture. I've said this before so I'll be very brief. In the 90s 30-40 people in my village went to Ewood, the percentage of children was high. Of those who I know personally the ONLY household from which I know the now adult children attend is mine! Some of the fathers still go but far from all. 

[Guest]

If food prices, beer choices, weed on the ground outside, 50p here and there on the bus and the quality of the pie stops you from going watching your team on a Saturday, then the problem is you and not the club. I don't care whether that's a divisive one, because it's true. Almost all of these points are nothing points, they don't matter. Blackburn is our team, it should be people's priority where possible financially, and when people can find the time. If you don't come to Ewood because of little things like weeds outside, the price of a pie or the fact the family stand moved from the BBE to the JW then I can't even begin to understand.

All of these points are great. YES pies should be cheaper. YES the weeds need dealing with, and the price hike for tickets on the day shouldn't be there. BUT, almost everything mentioned is miniscule or avoidable. They just sound like petty excuses not to go and see YOUR team play.

I can't ever see our crowd getting above an average of 12/13k again until we get promoted. And the fact that if we did get promoted, the crowd would be upto 15/16k says more about our fan base than the club.

[Guest]

13 hours ago, Miller11 said:

Not getting into every point you’ve made, but this one annoyed me. 

Shocker I've annoyed you  we obviously disagree on a lot, I just don't think the blame for our attendances can be put on anything other than:

a) The division we're in.
AND 
b) The Population of our town that is ever going to watch football.

But we'll have to agree to disagree, and that's fine. I just don't see it.

[MarkBRFC]

Just now, JoeHarvey said:

If food prices, beer choices, weed on the ground outside, 50p here and there on the bus and the quality of the pie stops you from going watching your team on a Saturday, then the problem is you and not the club. I don't care whether that's a divisive one, because it's true. Almost all of these points are nothing points, they don't matter. Blackburn is our team, it should be people's priority where possible financially, and when people can find the time. If you don't come to Ewood because of little things like weeds outside, the price of a pie or the fact the family stand moved from the BBE to the JW then I can't even begin to understand.

All of these points are great. YES pies should be cheaper. YES the weeds need dealing with, and the price hike for tickets on the day shouldn't be there. BUT, almost everything mentioned is miniscule or avoidable. They just sound like petty excuses not to go and see YOUR team play.

I can't ever see our crowd getting above an average of 12/13k again until we get promoted. And the fact that if we did get promoted, the crowd would be upto 15/16k says more about our fan base than the club.

This statement ?

[Guest]

Just now, MarkBRFC said:

This statement ?

So when financially possible, and when people have the time, as Blackburn fans it shouldn't be expected that they prioritise going to Blackburn games?

[MarkBRFC]

Just now, JoeHarvey said:

So when financially possible, and when people have the time, as Blackburn fans it shouldn't be expected that they prioritise going to Blackburn games?

I would never say to anyone, whether they had the money/time or not, to prioritise something like going to Rovers over something else.

For example, two lads who years ago I went to games with every week, both now live in north Staffordshire. They are both doing well for themselves and could afford it, and probably would have time to go to a game every now and then too but don't, they follow everything religiously and could tell you everything that is happening at the club, yet just don't have any real desire to attend games at the moment, and haven't done I'd say without checking since Hughes left.

If I rang them up today and said "what are you doing on Saturday", and they replied with "nothing yet" and then I followed it up with right, "you have a free day, and can obviously afford it, so you must go to watch Rovers on Saturday, you should prioritise it" They would probably laugh in my face and put the phone down.

How is it any of your business to state that?!

Edited September 19, 2019 by MarkBRFC

[PeteJD13]

37 minutes ago, JoeHarvey said:

If food prices, beer choices, weed on the ground outside, 50p here and there on the bus and the quality of the pie stops you from going watching your team on a Saturday, then the problem is you and not the club. I don't care whether that's a divisive one, because it's true. Almost all of these points are nothing points, they don't matter. Blackburn is our team, it should be people's priority where possible financially, and when people can find the time. If you don't come to Ewood because of little things like weeds outside, the price of a pie or the fact the family stand moved from the BBE to the JW then I can't even begin to understand.

All of these points are great. YES pies should be cheaper. YES the weeds need dealing with, and the price hike for tickets on the day shouldn't be there. BUT, almost everything mentioned is miniscule or avoidable. They just sound like petty excuses not to go and see YOUR team play.

I can't ever see our crowd getting above an average of 12/13k again until we get promoted. And the fact that if we did get promoted, the crowd would be upto 15/16k says more about our fan base than the club.

Goodness me what a post, yes there's lots of things you should be unhappy about but ignore them as that's being a true *Blackburn fan* out of interest how old are you?. What's laughable is people on here put there thoughts up as to what they don't like. Yet you seem happy with things as they are priorities change I've got two kids and after my mortgage payment and the car payments have gone out that's over £1500 quid month. That's before you think of nursery for kids its £50 a day where I live now, council tax has gone up so have gas and electric, real life things that are needed and wages on the whole haven't. Now I'm lucky I've got season tickets for me and my daughter. Now if I was unable to commit to a ST and I wanted to pick and choose the Waggot tax would put me off especially if I wanted to take my kids. The club could do a lot more but it does the very minimum no imaginative pricing the ground looks tired everything about the club smacks of mediocrity.

 

But hey kids its always the fans at fault............

Edited September 19, 2019 by PeteJD13

[MCMC1875]

22 minutes ago, JoeHarvey said:

If food prices, beer choices, weed on the ground outside, 50p here and there on the bus and the quality of the pie stops you from going watching your team on a Saturday, then the problem is you and not the club. I don't care whether that's a divisive one, because it's true. Almost all of these points are nothing points, they don't matter. Blackburn is our team, it should be people's priority where possible financially, and when people can find the time. If you don't come to Ewood because of little things like weeds outside, the price of a pie or the fact the family stand moved from the BBE to the JW then I can't even begin to understand.

All of these points are great. YES pies should be cheaper. YES the weeds need dealing with, and the price hike for tickets on the day shouldn't be there. BUT, almost everything mentioned is miniscule or avoidable. They just sound like petty excuses not to go and see YOUR team play.

I can't ever see our crowd getting above an average of 12/13k again until we get promoted. And the fact that if we did get promoted, the crowd would be upto 15/16k says more about our fan base than the club.

In one breath you say "All of these points are great" and in the next, "almost everything mentioned is miniscule". Make your mind up!

[MCMC1875]

Just now, MarkBRFC said:

I would never say to anyone, whether they had the money/time or not, to prioritise something like going to Rovers over something else.

For example, two lads who years ago I went to games with every week, both now live in north Staffordshire. They are both doing well for themselves and could afford it, and probably would have time to go to a game every now and then too but don't, they follow everything religiously and could tell you everything that is happening at the club, yet just don't have any real desire to attend games at the moment, and haven't done I'd say without checking since Hughes left.

If I rang them up today and said "what are you doing on Saturday", and they replied with "nothing yet" and then I followed it up with right, "you have a free day, and can obviously afford it, so you must go to watch Rovers on Saturday, you should prioritise it" They would probably laugh in my face and put the phone down.

How is it any of your business to state that?!

Because he's a "real" supporter, whatever that is.

[MCMC1875]

It seems Mr Harvey twists other posts to suit his own agenda. Where has anyone mentioned "50p here and there on the bus"?

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

I would never say to anyone, whether they had the money/time or not, to prioritise something like going to Rovers over something else.

For example, two lads who years ago I went to games with every week, both now live in north Staffordshire. They are both doing well for themselves and could afford it, and probably would have time to go to a game every now and then too but don't, they follow everything religiously and could tell you everything that is happening at the club, yet just don't have any real desire to attend games at the moment, and haven't done I'd say without checking since Hughes left.

 If I rang them up today and said "what are you doing on Saturday", and they replied with "nothing yet" and then I followed it up with right, "you have a free day, and can obviously afford it, so you must go to watch Rovers on Saturday, you should prioritise it" They would probably laugh in my face and put the phone down.

How is it any of your business to state that?!

Quite clearly I'm talking about fans who are nearby. Oddly specific story to bring up there really. I'm not talking about Blackburn fans who aren't from Blackburn and the surrounding areas. I'm sure if you looked at the database and compiled all the people who've stopped coming, not many would be from so far away.

[PeteJD13]

Just now, JoeHarvey said:

Quite clearly I'm talking about fans who are nearby. Oddly specific story to bring up there really. I'm not talking about Blackburn fans who aren't from Blackburn and the surrounding areas. I'm sure if you looked at the database and compiled all the people who've stopped coming, not many would be from so far away.

But that last sentence is part of the problem, generalising the cost of living has gone wages haven't. If the club really wanted to do something to test the water  Bradford City have a scheme where you can buy a seat for £70 then its £10  a game £6 for juniors per game you purchase after that. Or try  ticket valid for say 7 games that you can choose that's £15 quid a game reduced to £10 if you bring a child with you. It does link back to the product at Ewood if you have a limited budget. Take the kids to Blackpool or to the football its not a hard choice. Its not clear you mean fans nearby also how do you define near by, I don't live in East Lancs anymore, it takes me 35/40 mins to get to Ewood from where I live now which to me I'd say is fairly close. There are a large number of fans who've moved away from Blackburn and the surrounding areas.

Edited September 19, 2019 by PeteJD13