Attendances

[Paul]

45 minutes ago, Stuart said:

1) there is no general market - it’s Rovers or nowt. But how do we compare to City for example.

2) Surely we should try though. The current strategy isn’t working.

3) I mean value compared to the cost of living.

Whether you and I agree or not on the current club strategy, a lot of people are being priced out of watching Rovers. You and I both attend so what motivates us is irrelevant to the debate around our 10,000 empty seats.

1. By general market I mean the Championship as a whole. Rovers should be pricing around the average for the league. Too high and supporters would, rightly, take a dim view. Too low and we would be deemed cheap. From the fans perspective cheap is good but for the club it isn't.

2. I see two problems with trying significantly reduced prices. A very real loss of income. Using my example ST income would drop by +/- 40%. Meaning we need to get an extra 4000 fans in the ground for every game. That is a significant increase and recent history tells us is very difficult to achieve. Secondly if the experiment fails the following season there will need to be a big price increase to put prices back to the original level. Now the initiative can be clearly explained at the start. 12 months later how many will remember??? 

3. That is a very difficult one and I wouldn't know where to begin!  I decided just to look at an inflation calculator from the Bank of England. October 1994 ticket price for Rovers v Utd was £15. The BoE inflation calculator shows £15 then is £29.31 today at 2.8% inflation. Now I know we are not in the PL but that figure suggests ticket pricing is simply matching inflation.

As for motivation I don't need any. I suspect you are exactly the same. I need no motivation to go to Ewood. It's what I do. I realise we are hard core and thousands need persuading but I cannot understand the mentality that feels the beer is crap. If I want good beer I go to a good pub!! If I want good food at comparable prices I chose a decent cafe. I don't go to a football ground if I want these things.

Improved match day experience is very, very difficult. A better atmosphere is all I can think of which takes us straight back to prices!!!!! ?

Edited September 19, 2019 by Paul

[chaddyrovers]

6 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Not true. Two games were moved BY Rovers last season, not a police or Sky request.

The Fans Forum minutes confirmed it and they stated they won’t do it again as it led to a lot of complaints - ergo PNE and Leeds are back to 3pm this season.

I was talking this season not last season Matty

[arbitro]

Just now, Paul said:

1. By general market I mean the Championship as a whole. Rovers should be pricing around the average for the league. Too high and supporters would, rightly, take a dim view. Too low and we would be deemed cheap. From the fans perspective cheap is good but for the club it isn't.

2. I see two problems with trying significantly reduced prices. A very real loss of income. Using my example ST income would drop by +/- 40%. Meaning we need to get an extra 4000 fans in the ground for every game. That is a significant increase and recent history tells us is very difficult to achieve. Secondly if the experiment fails the following season there will need to be a big price increase to put prices back to the original level. Now the initiative can be clearly explained at the start. 12 months later how many will remember??? 

3. That is a very difficult one and I wouldn't know where to begin!  I decided just to look at an inflation calculator from the Bank of England. October 1994 ticket price for Rovers v Utd was £15. The BoE inflation calculator shows £15 then is £29.31 today at 2.8% inflation. Now I know we are not in the PL but that figure suggests ticket pricing is simply matching inflation.

As for motivation I don't need any. I suspect you are exactly the same. I need no motivation to go to Ewood. It's what I do. I realise we are hard core and thousands need persuading but I cannot understand the mentality that feels the beer is crap. If I want good beer I go to a good pub!! If I want good food at comparable prices I chose a decent cafe. I don't go to a football ground if I want these things.

Improved match day experience is very, very difficult. A better atmosphere is all I can think of which takes us straight back to prices!!!!! ?

When we got relegated the season ticket price stayed the same despite an awful season and I don't think the sales suffered too much. After promotion the prices went up by around 18%and sparked some real debate about the justification for it. From a club point of view it was naive in the extreme and Waggott and Co tried to justify by saying we were in the Championship. They simply didn't cash in on the feel good factor after promotion and on the back of a sell out against Oxford. I think Waggott completely misjudged the local people and instead of speaking to supporters about how attendances can be improved he went ahead with a significant and unjustified increase. There have been lots of good ideas on the various attendance threads which Waggott would do well to read and cherry pick the more practical and workable ones.

I find it ironic that we got slapped with a large increase whilst the people who decided on that increase don't pay for their attendance. In fact the likes of Waggott and Cheston will more than likely be wined and dined too.

 

[gumboots]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

My dad and mum bought a season ticket this season even tho they will only get to 5 or 6 games a season. Dad says it shows his support for club. He spend alot time away from the area now but still enjoy going to game. He passes his tickets to friends of his who go to games he doesn't. 

 

I did this for my local football club, Clitheroe. The £30 I paid for my season ticket will do a lot for them, and i dont feel i lose out if i dont go.

We've also bought Sale Sharks season tickets because my husband has always loved rugby and their ST scheme means that if i cant go to a match i can get an extra free ticket for the next match i can attend for a friend or family member so we can go together. We used to pass our Rovers ST to friends but nobody we know who isnt a ST holder wants to go now. The Park at the Trafford Centre for free and get a free shuttle bus to the ground means transport isnt an issue. The club has injured players outside the ground for photos, working in the club shop and bars, not just on open days but every match day, and fans are highly valued.

Compare it to Rovers where we've felt marginalised for years since John Williams left. Parking near the ground is more difficult than it used to be thanks to the new road layout and the travellers park and the club hasn't done anything to make that easier. It's a whole different experience going to Rovers now from when we had ST when Lambert was there. I went once last season and it just didn't feel good being there. It's not lack of premier league football that bothers me but it is the disregard that the club as a whole shows for its fans.

Its true that none of the things like weeds outside the stand, or the price of pies matters in itself, but it's the cumulative effect of lack of empathy and understanding that the club has shown towards its fans that means it would take a lot to tempt me back on a regular basis.

As for being told I should prioritise Rovers over other things I enjoy doing, that's more likely to make me stay away than have a crisis of conscience and return. 

[Miller11]

This is nowhere near as simple as some, including Waggott, seem to think it is.

We need to get more fans through the gate, broadly let’s put these in to two categories: New and Lapsed.

As @JHRover pointed out in his superb post, you can’t compare crowds now to the 80s. There was a huge surge in footballs popularity in the 90s, but 20 something years on, it’s all change again. I know lads who love football... talk about it, play it, watch it, spend vast amounts of money on it... but to them it’s a television program. Kids are increasingly going to grow up thinking this way. The exposure to football on TV, not to mention online services is mind boggling. Not only do we (and all clubs at all levels for that matter) have a real fight on their hands to get people to break their habits, they have to offer an experience that people want to repeat.

There is no quick fix. It’s about being innovative, inclusive and engaging over the long term. It shouldn’t be a 2/3 times a season thing, it needs to be constant and targeted towards the entire community. A few suggestions off the top of my head:

- Missed the boat in this one, but go to freshers fairs at UCLAN, Lancaster Uni etc. Offer a package to freshers £30 for tickets to 3 games and put some coaches on. It’d take a couple of iPads and a couple of people to shift a few tickets and to potentially add loads of names to the ticket office database.

- Go to some of the big employers in the area, offer them some heavily discounted match tickets. £25 for a family of 4, or maybe a tenner a pop. Make it so they can buy them direct from the employer... can’t see many companies turning down free perks for their staff. Might get a few workmates deciding to give it a go. Rotate it around to give each one a few opportunities a season

- Become far more visible in and around Blackburn - get to events, support the community more. Have a word with Gaz Aspden about the upcoming Spezial exhibition he’s doing, send a few players along, sponsor it. Saw a post on social media from the organisers of Darwen Live looking for people to get involved and potential sponsors. Just have some visibility and presence around Blackburn, Accy, Darwen, Clitheroe... nobody in any of those places should be able to organise an event or anything without getting a phone call from someone at Rovers asking how they can get involved. If you want the community to support you be more involved in it.

There is a whole other massive discussion around improving the match day experience. Again, something we don’t see enough proactive attempts at. 

Lapsed fans Probably need to be broken down further into those who have drifted away, and those who are making a conscious decision not to attend. I fall into the latter, so feel I can give an informed opinion on this. 

I can get a free ticket to any home game, but this means sitting on my own, in a stand I don’t like. It’s not the Rovers experience I know and loved for 20 odd years. I told Steve Waggott that I am still very distrustful of Venky’s, and while I can’t see my stance towards them changing, I wasn’t a million miles off deciding to get a season ticket again this year since I got to the point where I’d had enough about 4 years ago. He was making the right noises about understanding what the fans had been through, and needing them back. I told him I didn’t have the answer, but felt that I needed some sort of gesture from the club. I don’t feel I’ve had that and still feel a disconnect to the extent that I don’t want to part with my money. Coming out and saying “we’ve done all we can, it’s down to the fans now” isn’t only stupidly divisive, it’s also a load of bollocks. Judging by the thoughts of others on here there are as many barriers being put up for lapsed fans to return than pathways for them... if not more.

[MCMC1875]

Just now, Miller11 said:

This is nowhere near as simple as some, including Waggott, seem to think it is.

We need to get more fans through the gate, broadly let’s put these in to two categories: New and Lapsed.

As @JHRover pointed out in his superb post, you can’t compare crowds now to the 80s. There was a huge surge in footballs popularity in the 90s, but 20 something years on, it’s all change again. I know lads who love football... talk about it, play it, watch it, spend vast amounts of money on it... but to them it’s a television program. Kids are increasingly going to grow up thinking this way. The exposure to football on TV, not to mention online services is mind boggling. Not only do we (and all clubs at all levels for that matter) have a real fight on their hands to get people to break their habits, they have to offer an experience that people want to repeat.

There is no quick fix. It’s about being innovative, inclusive and engaging over the long term. It shouldn’t be a 2/3 times a season thing, it needs to be constant and targeted towards the entire community. A few suggestions off the top of my head:

- Missed the boat in this one, but go to freshers fairs at UCLAN, Lancaster Uni etc. Offer a package to freshers £30 for tickets to 3 games and put some coaches on. It’d take a couple of iPads and a couple of people to shift a few tickets and to potentially add loads of names to the ticket office database.

- Go to some of the big employers in the area, offer them some heavily discounted match tickets. £25 for a family of 4, or maybe a tenner a pop. Make it so they can buy them direct from the employer... can’t see many companies turning down free perks for their staff. Might get a few workmates deciding to give it a go. Rotate it around to give each one a few opportunities a season

- Become far more visible in and around Blackburn - get to events, support the community more. Have a word with Gaz Aspden about the upcoming Spezial exhibition he’s doing, send a few players along, sponsor it. Saw a post on social media from the organisers of Darwen Live looking for people to get involved and potential sponsors. Just have some visibility and presence around Blackburn, Accy, Darwen, Clitheroe... nobody in any of those places should be able to organise an event or anything without getting a phone call from someone at Rovers asking how they can get involved. If you want the community to support you be more involved in it.

There is a whole other massive discussion around improving the match day experience. Again, something we don’t see enough proactive attempts at. 

Lapsed fans Probably need to be broken down further into those who have drifted away, and those who are making a conscious decision not to attend. I fall into the latter, so feel I can give an informed opinion on this. 

I can get a free ticket to any home game, but this means sitting on my own, in a stand I don’t like. It’s not the Rovers experience I know and loved for 20 odd years. I told Steve Waggott that I am still very distrustful of Venky’s, and while I can’t see my stance towards them changing, I wasn’t a million miles off deciding to get a season ticket again this year since I got to the point where I’d had enough about 4 years ago. He was making the right noises about understanding what the fans had been through, and needing them back. I told him I didn’t have the answer, but felt that I needed some sort of gesture from the club. I don’t feel I’ve had that and still feel a disconnect to the extent that I don’t want to part with my money. Coming out and saying “we’ve done all we can, it’s down to the fans now” isn’t only stupidly divisive, it’s also a load of bollocks. Judging by the thoughts of others on here there are as many barriers being put up for lapsed fans to return than pathways for them... if not more.

Good post. 2 brief points I'm reply.

1. Burnley have been offering discounted tickets through employers for some time. Naturally I declined the offer at my employer.

2. 28 September is the date of the Ribble Valley Mod Weekender. It's one of the biggest events in the Clitheroe calendar and an area with high disposable income.

[Blue blood]

7 hours ago, Paul said:

 

 

Absolutely

 

I'm 100% in favour of getting more kids in to the ground. It will have some impact but it is never going to be a significant long-term one. Yes 50% in our household is a great success but I very much doubt this is the general picture. I've said this before so I'll be very brief. In the 90s 30-40 people in my village went to Ewood, the percentage of children was high. Of those who I know personally the ONLY household from which I know the now adult children attend is mine! Some of the fathers still go but far from all. 

Interesting and rather helpful to hear if sobering. That said I wonder if these efforts weren't made what the numbers attending would be like. 

That said from my school who I knew supported Rovers about 50% still go (not that there were very many of us!) although most of us to a reduced number due life/geography. 

My question would be how else are we going to get the next generation of fans?I can't think of too many people who've picked up Rovers later in their life. And with big 6 dominance, prices and mediocre football it's only going to be harder. 

6 hours ago, JoeHarvey said:

If food prices, beer choices, weed on the ground outside, 50p here and there on the bus and the quality of the pie stops you from going watching your team on a Saturday, then the problem is you and not the club. I don't care whether that's a divisive one, because it's true. Almost all of these points are nothing points, they don't matter. Blackburn is our team, it should be people's priority where possible financially, and when people can find the time. If you don't come to Ewood because of little things like weeds outside, the price of a pie or the fact the family stand moved from the BBE to the JW then I can't even begin to understand.

All of these points are great. YES pies should be cheaper. YES the weeds need dealing with, and the price hike for tickets on the day shouldn't be there. BUT, almost everything mentioned is miniscule or avoidable. They just sound like petty excuses not to go and see YOUR team play.

I can't ever see our crowd getting above an average of 12/13k again until we get promoted. And the fact that if we did get promoted, the crowd would be upto 15/16k says more about our fan base than the club.

Hmm thankfully you are not in charge of Rovers marketing! Viewing fans/customers as the problem isn't too helpful for most businesses. 

You say it should be people's priority to support Rovers but why? Why should that be a financial priority over going to the pub and seeing mates, saving for a child's university fund, saving for a much needed holiday etc. Also who should it be a priority for? People living in Blackburn? Once you have been to a game? When you call yourself a fan? Terrible assertion from you. 

You miss the point that football clubs are meant to attract fans, and as people go, if enjoyable over time, a loyalty develops and people keep returning. In order for that to happen the whole thing needs not be off-putting - after all there is no obligation for people to come - and therefore all these things matter. Using the restaurant example someone won't go somewhere because of the lighting, but intrusive lighting, rank toilets etc. and someone won't go even if the food is great. Given the product is a little mixed at best I'd say every little helps in making a positive impression. We're after supporters not conscripts! 

Also these pathetic excuses as you call them are mentioned by people who attend. And given the club, as all have to give something positive back in terms of experience if not result, then all of these things matter. Loyalty cuts both ways and must be cultivated. from the Kean era onwards there's not been much cultivating whatsoever from the club. In fact often fans have been dumped on by the club in this period. So this idea of give the club your money and turn up regardless of the experience or how treated fails for both casual and deeply committed fans alike. It sounds more like a press gang to me then supporting a team. 

 

[MCMC1875]

The Super 6 offer in recent seasons and the mid-week game in winter where prices are cut are a waste of time.

Edited September 19, 2019 by MCMC1875

[Blue blood]

3 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

This is nowhere near as simple as some, including Waggott, seem to think it is.

We need to get more fans through the gate, broadly let’s put these in to two categories: New and Lapsed.

As @JHRover pointed out in his superb post, you can’t compare crowds now to the 80s. There was a huge surge in footballs popularity in the 90s, but 20 something years on, it’s all change again. I know lads who love football... talk about it, play it, watch it, spend vast amounts of money on it... but to them it’s a television program. Kids are increasingly going to grow up thinking this way. The exposure to football on TV, not to mention online services is mind boggling. Not only do we (and all clubs at all levels for that matter) have a real fight on their hands to get people to break their habits, they have to offer an experience that people want to repeat.

There is no quick fix. It’s about being innovative, inclusive and engaging over the long term. It shouldn’t be a 2/3 times a season thing, it needs to be constant and targeted towards the entire community. A few suggestions off the top of my head:

- Missed the boat in this one, but go to freshers fairs at UCLAN, Lancaster Uni etc. Offer a package to freshers £30 for tickets to 3 games and put some coaches on. It’d take a couple of iPads and a couple of people to shift a few tickets and to potentially add loads of names to the ticket office database.

- Go to some of the big employers in the area, offer them some heavily discounted match tickets. £25 for a family of 4, or maybe a tenner a pop. Make it so they can buy them direct from the employer... can’t see many companies turning down free perks for their staff. Might get a few workmates deciding to give it a go. Rotate it around to give each one a few opportunities a season

- Become far more visible in and around Blackburn - get to events, support the community more. Have a word with Gaz Aspden about the upcoming Spezial exhibition he’s doing, send a few players along, sponsor it. Saw a post on social media from the organisers of Darwen Live looking for people to get involved and potential sponsors. Just have some visibility and presence around Blackburn, Accy, Darwen, Clitheroe... nobody in any of those places should be able to organise an event or anything without getting a phone call from someone at Rovers asking how they can get involved. If you want the community to support you be more involved in it.

There is a whole other massive discussion around improving the match day experience. Again, something we don’t see enough proactive attempts at. 

Lapsed fans Probably need to be broken down further into those who have drifted away, and those who are making a conscious decision not to attend. I fall into the latter, so feel I can give an informed opinion on this. 

I can get a free ticket to any home game, but this means sitting on my own, in a stand I don’t like. It’s not the Rovers experience I know and loved for 20 odd years. I told Steve Waggott that I am still very distrustful of Venky’s, and while I can’t see my stance towards them changing, I wasn’t a million miles off deciding to get a season ticket again this year since I got to the point where I’d had enough about 4 years ago. He was making the right noises about understanding what the fans had been through, and needing them back. I told him I didn’t have the answer, but felt that I needed some sort of gesture from the club. I don’t feel I’ve had that and still feel a disconnect to the extent that I don’t want to part with my money. Coming out and saying “we’ve done all we can, it’s down to the fans now” isn’t only stupidly divisive, it’s also a load of bollocks. Judging by the thoughts of others on here there are as many barriers being put up for lapsed fans to return than pathways for them... if not more.

Excellent post. Sums up many of the complexities of the situation facing Rovers. 

[PeteJD13]

Duncan's post absolutely nails it

Edited September 19, 2019 by PeteJD13

[JacknOry]

Likes to be a bit divisive this Joe fella.

[Dreams of 1995]

13 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Interesting and rather helpful to hear if sobering. That said I wonder if these efforts weren't made what the numbers attending would be like. 

That said from my school who I knew supported Rovers about 50% still go (not that there were very many of us!) although most of us to a reduced number due life/geography. 

My question would be how else are we going to get the next generation of fans?I can't think of too many people who've picked up Rovers later in their life. And with big 6 dominance, prices and mediocre football it's only going to be harder. 

Hmm thankfully you are not in charge of Rovers marketing! Viewing fans/customers as the problem isn't too helpful for most businesses. 

You say it should be people's priority to support Rovers but why? Why should that be a financial priority over going to the pub and seeing mates, saving for a child's university fund, saving for a much needed holiday etc. Also who should it be a priority for? People living in Blackburn? Once you have been to a game? When you call yourself a fan? Terrible assertion from you. 

You miss the point that football clubs are meant to attract fans, and as people go, if enjoyable over time, a loyalty develops and people keep returning. In order for that to happen the whole thing needs not be off-putting - after all there is no obligation for people to come - and therefore all these things matter. Using the restaurant example someone won't go somewhere because of the lighting, but intrusive lighting, rank toilets etc. and someone won't go even if the food is great. Given the product is a little mixed at best I'd say every little helps in making a positive impression. We're after supporters not conscripts! 

Also these pathetic excuses as you call them are mentioned by people who attend. And given the club, as all have to give something positive back in terms of experience if not result, then all of these things matter. Loyalty cuts both ways and must be cultivated. from the Kean era onwards there's not been much cultivating whatsoever from the club. In fact often fans have been dumped on by the club in this period. So this idea of give the club your money and turn up regardless of the experience or how treated fails for both casual and deeply committed fans alike. It sounds more like a press gang to me then supporting a team. 

 

There is definitely an argument to be had about the match day experience. It’s shit to be truthful. However we need to be realistic and admit that whilst it may gradually increase the fan base it isn’t the real reason to as why we are 10k fans down from last decade. 

Ultimately these arguments are about making the experience more enjoyable for us, the fans who do go, and if a few hundred are more inclined to go on the back of the changes then it’s a bonus. 

We do need better beer, better food, the weeds removing, the fan zone to be more in tune with its target consumer base but all of these ideas won’t suddenly improve our attendances like some are making out. 10k won’t come over night because we have a nice three tuns ale, proper spud pie and perfect paving. It will help though. 

I think throwing aside the myth that crowds will return gives these arguments a better standing. For me it’s about pride. I want us to aim to be the best we can be. Is that possible though with a 30k seater stadium and a 10k attendance? 

Ideally we’d have a smaller stadium and I think that would improve the atmosphere but that is obviously not in consideration. 

Edited September 19, 2019 by Dreams of 1995

[superniko]

37 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

This is nowhere near as simple as some, including Waggott, seem to think it is.

We need to get more fans through the gate, broadly let’s put these in to two categories: New and Lapsed.

As @JHRover pointed out in his superb post, you can’t compare crowds now to the 80s. There was a huge surge in footballs popularity in the 90s, but 20 something years on, it’s all change again. I know lads who love football... talk about it, play it, watch it, spend vast amounts of money on it... but to them it’s a television program. Kids are increasingly going to grow up thinking this way. The exposure to football on TV, not to mention online services is mind boggling. Not only do we (and all clubs at all levels for that matter) have a real fight on their hands to get people to break their habits, they have to offer an experience that people want to repeat.

There is no quick fix. It’s about being innovative, inclusive and engaging over the long term. It shouldn’t be a 2/3 times a season thing, it needs to be constant and targeted towards the entire community. A few suggestions off the top of my head:

- Missed the boat in this one, but go to freshers fairs at UCLAN, Lancaster Uni etc. Offer a package to freshers £30 for tickets to 3 games and put some coaches on. It’d take a couple of iPads and a couple of people to shift a few tickets and to potentially add loads of names to the ticket office database.

- Go to some of the big employers in the area, offer them some heavily discounted match tickets. £25 for a family of 4, or maybe a tenner a pop. Make it so they can buy them direct from the employer... can’t see many companies turning down free perks for their staff. Might get a few workmates deciding to give it a go. Rotate it around to give each one a few opportunities a season

- Become far more visible in and around Blackburn - get to events, support the community more. Have a word with Gaz Aspden about the upcoming Spezial exhibition he’s doing, send a few players along, sponsor it. Saw a post on social media from the organisers of Darwen Live looking for people to get involved and potential sponsors. Just have some visibility and presence around Blackburn, Accy, Darwen, Clitheroe... nobody in any of those places should be able to organise an event or anything without getting a phone call from someone at Rovers asking how they can get involved. If you want the community to support you be more involved in it.

There is a whole other massive discussion around improving the match day experience. Again, something we don’t see enough proactive attempts at. 

Lapsed fans Probably need to be broken down further into those who have drifted away, and those who are making a conscious decision not to attend. I fall into the latter, so feel I can give an informed opinion on this. 

I can get a free ticket to any home game, but this means sitting on my own, in a stand I don’t like. It’s not the Rovers experience I know and loved for 20 odd years. I told Steve Waggott that I am still very distrustful of Venky’s, and while I can’t see my stance towards them changing, I wasn’t a million miles off deciding to get a season ticket again this year since I got to the point where I’d had enough about 4 years ago. He was making the right noises about understanding what the fans had been through, and needing them back. I told him I didn’t have the answer, but felt that I needed some sort of gesture from the club. I don’t feel I’ve had that and still feel a disconnect to the extent that I don’t want to part with my money. Coming out and saying “we’ve done all we can, it’s down to the fans now” isn’t only stupidly divisive, it’s also a load of bollocks. Judging by the thoughts of others on here there are as many barriers being put up for lapsed fans to return than pathways for them... if not more.

Lots of good ideas in this post, as well as the thread as a whole (the discount on loyalty I particularly liked - 5% in year 2 etc.)

Just goes to show the boys in the job really don’t have a clue. Just pick up their handsome salary with no affiliation to the club at all and in the grand scheme are doing absolutely nothing to engage fans (it’s their bloody job!)

[Blue blood]

34 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

There is definitely an argument to be had about the match day experience. It’s shit to be truthful. However we need to be realistic and admit that whilst it may gradually increase the fan base it isn’t the real reason to as why we are 10k fans down from last decade. 

Ultimately these arguments are about making the experience more enjoyable for us, the fans who do go, and if a few hundred are more inclined to go on the back of the changes then it’s a bonus. 

We do need better beer, better food, the weeds removing, the fan zone to be more in tune with its target consumer base but all of these ideas won’t suddenly improve our attendances like some are making out. 10k won’t come over night because we have a nice three tuns ale, proper spud pie and perfect paving. It will help though. 

I think throwing aside the myth that crowds will return gives these arguments a better standing. For me it’s about pride. I want us to aim to be the best we can be. Is that possible though with a 30k seater stadium and a 10k attendance? 

Ideally we’d have a smaller stadium and I think that would improve the atmosphere but that is obviously not in consideration. 

Totally agree match day experience is only a part of improving attendances and the reasons we've £10 k no longer there are how fans were treated in the cluckers reign (& the reign in general) combined with overall poor football and higher costs - not to mention the trends towards big 6 TV fans. 

If part of a concerted effort combined with other initiatives to get the younger generation and new fans I feel that the experience improvements would help tip more people into the coming again camp - albeit not the 10k missing! It's all cumulative imo so if experience sways say 5 or 10% of newcomers into staying/trying again, then the more people we attract the more the impact of the experience will tip into returning. So 500 new people attracted, at 5% influence rate then the experience would influence 25 people to return, 2000 new people attracted, 100 people influenced and so on. 

Yes a smaller stadium would help but that said how much smaller would we want it? Given big games like the FA cup Vs Liverpool, last game of season of promotion season shows in the right circumstances we can get 25k +. Appreciate that means a lot of the games in a third full ground that possibility doesn't help and is a little hollow, but it is food for thought. Also what would Prem attendances be like IF we ever got there under a successful manager? Agree it would help most weeks but the level capped at is perhaps capping the potential for growth/possibilities. A hard call and one I'm not sure we can make even if we had an answer. 

Finally perhaps all this in part should also be about retention as much as expansion to make sure no more fans are lost. 

[Stuart]

3 hours ago, Miller11 said:

This is nowhere near as simple as some, including Waggott, seem to think it is.

We need to get more fans through the gate, broadly let’s put these in to two categories: New and Lapsed.

As @JHRover pointed out in his superb post, you can’t compare crowds now to the 80s. There was a huge surge in footballs popularity in the 90s, but 20 something years on, it’s all change again. I know lads who love football... talk about it, play it, watch it, spend vast amounts of money on it... but to them it’s a television program. Kids are increasingly going to grow up thinking this way. The exposure to football on TV, not to mention online services is mind boggling. Not only do we (and all clubs at all levels for that matter) have a real fight on their hands to get people to break their habits, they have to offer an experience that people want to repeat.

There is no quick fix. It’s about being innovative, inclusive and engaging over the long term. It shouldn’t be a 2/3 times a season thing, it needs to be constant and targeted towards the entire community. A few suggestions off the top of my head:

- Missed the boat in this one, but go to freshers fairs at UCLAN, Lancaster Uni etc. Offer a package to freshers £30 for tickets to 3 games and put some coaches on. It’d take a couple of iPads and a couple of people to shift a few tickets and to potentially add loads of names to the ticket office database.

- Go to some of the big employers in the area, offer them some heavily discounted match tickets. £25 for a family of 4, or maybe a tenner a pop. Make it so they can buy them direct from the employer... can’t see many companies turning down free perks for their staff. Might get a few workmates deciding to give it a go. Rotate it around to give each one a few opportunities a season

- Become far more visible in and around Blackburn - get to events, support the community more. Have a word with Gaz Aspden about the upcoming Spezial exhibition he’s doing, send a few players along, sponsor it. Saw a post on social media from the organisers of Darwen Live looking for people to get involved and potential sponsors. Just have some visibility and presence around Blackburn, Accy, Darwen, Clitheroe... nobody in any of those places should be able to organise an event or anything without getting a phone call from someone at Rovers asking how they can get involved. If you want the community to support you be more involved in it.

There is a whole other massive discussion around improving the match day experience. Again, something we don’t see enough proactive attempts at. 

Lapsed fans Probably need to be broken down further into those who have drifted away, and those who are making a conscious decision not to attend. I fall into the latter, so feel I can give an informed opinion on this. 

I can get a free ticket to any home game, but this means sitting on my own, in a stand I don’t like. It’s not the Rovers experience I know and loved for 20 odd years. I told Steve Waggott that I am still very distrustful of Venky’s, and while I can’t see my stance towards them changing, I wasn’t a million miles off deciding to get a season ticket again this year since I got to the point where I’d had enough about 4 years ago. He was making the right noises about understanding what the fans had been through, and needing them back. I told him I didn’t have the answer, but felt that I needed some sort of gesture from the club. I don’t feel I’ve had that and still feel a disconnect to the extent that I don’t want to part with my money. Coming out and saying “we’ve done all we can, it’s down to the fans now” isn’t only stupidly divisive, it’s also a load of bollocks. Judging by the thoughts of others on here there are as many barriers being put up for lapsed fans to return than pathways for them... if not more.

Great post.

What worries me is that ideas are out there but none of the imaginative ones seem to be being generated by the club. 6 game deals at pro rata ST prices being the best they can come up with.

[Stuart]

6 hours ago, Paul said:

1. By general market I mean the Championship as a whole. Rovers should be pricing around the average for the league. Too high and supporters would, rightly, take a dim view. Too low and we would be deemed cheap. From the fans perspective cheap is good but for the club it isn't.

2. I see two problems with trying significantly reduced prices. A very real loss of income. Using my example ST income would drop by +/- 40%. Meaning we need to get an extra 4000 fans in the ground for every game. That is a significant increase and recent history tells us is very difficult to achieve. Secondly if the experiment fails the following season there will need to be a big price increase to put prices back to the original level. Now the initiative can be clearly explained at the start. 12 months later how many will remember??? 

3. That is a very difficult one and I wouldn't know where to begin!  I decided just to look at an inflation calculator from the Bank of England. October 1994 ticket price for Rovers v Utd was £15. The BoE inflation calculator shows £15 then is £29.31 today at 2.8% inflation. Now I know we are not in the PL but that figure suggests ticket pricing is simply matching inflation.

As for motivation I don't need any. I suspect you are exactly the same. I need no motivation to go to Ewood. It's what I do. I realise we are hard core and thousands need persuading but I cannot understand the mentality that feels the beer is crap. If I want good beer I go to a good pub!! If I want good food at comparable prices I chose a decent cafe. I don't go to a football ground if I want these things.

Improved match day experience is very, very difficult. A better atmosphere is all I can think of which takes us straight back to prices!!!!! ?

I agree with lots of this - although by cost of living I didn’t mean it in the economic sense I meant compared to spending money on other things. A family of four who can’t afford a season ticket could be charged over £60 for tickets to a single match. I expect that a lot of people couldn’t justify that in their weekly budget.

But whatever motivation, when it comes to growing the fanbase - new fans or even encouraging occasional fans to make it a ‘must do’ - we need to get people in the door first.

[tomphil]

8 hours ago, JHRover said:

The trouble with comparing our gates to those in the 80s is it is setting the bar as low as it can go in terms of comparisons.

The 80s were a low point in 100+years of football history in this country, not just for Rovers but for pretty much all clubs. Hooliganism, dilapidated grounds, all sorts of other things, contributed to plummeting numbers going to matches.

Football has moved on. Virtually everyone, even ourselves, are getting bigger gates now than the 80s. There has been a significant growth in English football over the last 20 years even in the 2nd division.

I fear that using our 80s attendances as a benchmark is inappropriate. Man Utd had sub 30000 gates in that era, so should they be happy with anything above that? 

We need to do better numbers wise. There has been a failure on Rovers part to build on the promotion campaign and whatever the ins and outs of it we are now at less than Bowyer era levels of home fans watching games.

My opinion is that decisions made at Ewood have contributed to that. A succession of unpopular and questionable ticketing decisions over several years. This includes season ticket holding fans in 3 stands being forcibly relocated without consultation.

I spend a lot of time on twitter and forums and I can see efforts being made elsewhere to grow and improve.

Anyone going to Reading on Saturday have a look to the left of the away end. That area was previously empty and given to large away followings. Reading have now made it for home fans and restrict away followings to half the stand. Home fans are encouraged to go in this new area, right next to away fans, and sing, shout, wave flags. Not my cup of tea but it is an effort to improve atmosphere. What are we doing? The opposite - closing areas, rubbing hands large away followings and maximising distances in the ground to make life easier for staff on matchday.

The amounts of money made by sticking a few quid on tickets are inconsequential in Ffp matters when we are sending 7 million to Nottingham for Ben Brereton.

Our stadium manager, matchday police and whoever else involved don't seem to want that it makes a dozy lazy day at Ewood hardwork they don't want shaking out of their slumber by home and away fans shouting  at each other over a fence, block of seats and netting, it's all part of the match day experience at most grounds but not the trailblazers at Ewood.

Seems they'd much rather alienate a few hundred into not coming at all.

 

 

[scotchrover]

Here’s one for those banging the drum for cheap tickets. Bolton- a team that nearly didn’t exist- reduced to tickets to £5, when the new owners finally took over, for the EFL Cup game against Bradford. 

It’s a rubbish competition, but after all that happened, they might never have played again. How many did it attract? A whopping 9000. 

Similarly, how many fans turned up to the Oldham cup game last month? About 5000 I’d say. How much was that? £10.

At the end of the day, people really aren’t going to return permanently, unless we’re back in the top flight. Why? It all boils down the opposition we play, and what’s a stake. 

Edited September 19, 2019 by scotchrover

[roversfan99]

Just now, scotchrover said:

Here’s one for those banging the drum for cheap tickets. Bolton- a team that nearly didn’t exist- reduced to tickets to £5, when the new owners finally took over, for the EFL Cup game against Bradford. 

It’s a rubbish competition, but after all that happened, they might never have played again. How many did it attract? A whopping 9000. 

Similarly, how many fans turned up to the Oldham cup game last month? About 5000 I’d say. How much was that? £10.

At the end of the day, people really aren’t going to return permanently, unless we’re back in the top flight. Why? It all boils down the opposition we play, and what’s a stake. 

That Bolton example is one of a club doing all it can to increase attendances at a point of high potential interest.

Contrast that to Waggott bumping up season ticket prices when fans are more likely to engage following our promotion.

[Mattyblue]

Bolton would usually have seen a gate of about 1,000 for a Checkatrade game. nearly ten times that turned up, so that’s a daft game to use as an example.

[chaddyrovers]

7 hours ago, MCMC1875 said:

The Super 6 offer in recent seasons and the mid-week game in winter where prices are cut are a waste of time.

wrong, I know of 2 people I work with who got a the super 6 offer last season and now gone to becoming season ticket holders this season. 

I will say that yes that they aren't going to thousands back and maybe a few fans back after a while

[MCMC1875]

20 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Great idea. Maybe even give shirts away to fans who the club visits in schools. 

My dad and mum bought a season ticket this season even tho they will only get to 5 or 6 games a season. Dad says it shows his support for club. He spend alot time away from the area now but still enjoy going to game. He passes his tickets to friends of his who go to games he doesn't. 

1. Surely you know whether you will buy a season ticket whenever they go on sale. 

4. Could Blackburn Rovers along with Blackburn and Darwen council not introduce a Bus ticket scheme where it like cheaper prices for season ticket holders 

6. disagree on the abolish 1875 club. 

7. very good idea

8. surely the family stand is much better next to the Rovers dugout and the players/managers for autography's and pictures with them 

10. Rovers only move kick off times for Sky TV coverage. 

14. With Rovers announce the prices of each game for the season before the season starts it allow some walk ons fans the choice of games they can attend and allow some fans to save up. 

15. Surely this depends on who the freebies are for. if it is for schools then surely it good idea to get the into football and watching it from early age. Not every parent as time or the money for it. 

1. A lot of people have more disposable income in April - many have pay rises. Whereas in June or July, people are spending on holidays and have switched off football.

4. Blackburn Council have no buses or interest and this would not help people in other boroughs. There are 6 coaches still going to home games (3 from Darwen, 2 Rishton & 1 Accy). They pay between £3 and £5 per game. Going on a coach with friends or family becomes a habit.

6. 1875 Club devalues season tickets. Evening with Matt Jansen, discounted tickets for 1875 members, season ticket holders full price. Any event/offer should be: discount to season ticket holders, everyone else full price.

7. Ok.

8. That move displaced more fans who sat in the JW Lower.

10. Lancs police confirmed it was a club request to move Preston and Leeds last season but the club denied it.

14. All games should be the same price.

15. No problem with free schools tickets for odd games. There are too many free SEASON tickets for staff. It was Waggott who gave the figure.

Edited September 20, 2019 by MCMC1875

[MCMC1875]

8 hours ago, tomphil said:

Our stadium manager, matchday police and whoever else involved don't seem to want that it makes a dozy lazy day at Ewood hardwork they don't want shaking out of their slumber by home and away fans shouting  at each other over a fence, block of seats and netting, it's all part of the match day experience at most grounds but not the trailblazers at Ewood.

Seems they'd much rather alienate a few hundred into not coming at all.

 

 

Good point. None of the senior administrators or board (Coar excepted?) are Rovers fans so it is a job rather than a labour of love.

[gumboots]

John Williams was not a Rovers fan but he learnt to love and understand us

 

[chaddyrovers]

16 hours ago, MCMC1875 said:

1. A lot of people have more disposable income in April - many have pay rises. Whereas in June or July, people are spending on holidays and have switched off football.

4. Blackburn Council have no buses or interest and this would not help people in other boroughs. There are 6 coaches still going to home games (3 from Darwen, 2 Rishton & 1 Accy). They pay between £3 and £5 per game. Going on a coach with friends or family becomes a habit.

6. 1875 Club devalues season tickets. Evening with Matt Jansen, discounted tickets for 1875 members, season ticket holders full price. Any event/offer should be: discount to season ticket holders, everyone else full price.

7. Ok.

8. That move displaced more fans who sat in the JW Lower.

10. Lancs police confirmed it was a club request to move Preston and Leeds last season but the club denied it.

14. All games should be the same price.

15. No problem with free schools tickets for odd games. There are too many free SEASON tickets for staff. It was Waggott who gave the figure.

1. Anyone buying a season ticket and paying it monthly starting in June or July. So it not like you have to pay it all off at once. 

4. Yes the one from Accy going from the Sydney street pub. I know a number of ppl who catch that one. Why does Blackburn Council not have interest in this when it would help bring in money into the area. Most of parking opposite the ground has gone now thanks to them

6. Not at all as some people are members of both. 

8. Has it really? putting the younger fans next to the home dugout is a good idea. 

10. Talking this season as I said to MattyBlue yesterday