Attendances

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

14,000+ on the Breezeblock last night..not bad for a televised game.

[Mattyblue]

c11,800 Bolton fans so pretty much exactly what we are pulling in... and they are bottom of League 1 without a win all season.

[K-Hod]

8 hours ago, Stuart said:

£23 a month to watch Dundee United once a fortnight or £8 a month to watch Netflix 365 days a year?

The volumes just don’t add up for that kind of comparison.

Wonder what the upper limit would be for people to part with all year round - including the Summer when there is no football. Would tickets for friendlies be included to keep the interest up?

I’d be ok with £30 per month for a 23 home game season. £35 would be testing it. £40 would be a no. If we are having a crap season could people cancel their subscription? Could club’s budget for that? There would need to be a commitment over a fixed period - ideally the full season but if someone cancelled on 1st June, would they be permitted to re-subscribe on 1st August? By the time you’ve implemented all the necessary rules you’d end up back an STDD situation.

It’s already just touching £40 a month for where I sit in JW upper.....

[chaddyrovers]

12 hours ago, Paul said:

Personally I would not want to pay monthly for my ST, like many other things I want it paid for and out of mind.

I'm like that. Rather just paid it off and its done. Dont have to think about for another 12 months then

[OldEwoodBlue]

3 hours ago, Paul said:

A quote from the Dundee Utd managing director:

It's  about putting value back into them," says managing director Mal Brannigan. "If fans renewed early, it was the same price as last season. Before, if you missed three or four games, it wasn't worth having one, this year, that's gone up to six or seven by us increasing the matchday price."

I'm looking forward to the discussion when that happens at Ewood!!!!

I thought that is what HAS happened this year. No discussion required.

[OldEwoodBlue]

33 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I'm like that. Rather just paid it off and its done. Dont have to think about for another 12 months then

But do you both accept you may be in the minority amongst our ST holders ?

And as we are fundamentally discussing ways to increase attendances...

Do you think there are people who would buy if they could pay over 12 months or are you not assed as long as you are personally OK ?

[J*B]

45 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I'm like that. Rather just paid it off and its done. Dont have to think about for another 12 months then

It’s not really about what you’re like, it’s more to do with the financial situation which most people in Blackburn find themselves in means paying monthly is the only viable way to get a season ticket because they can’t have £300+ leave their back account in one month. 

[OldEwoodBlue]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

c11,800 Bolton fans so pretty much exactly what we are pulling in... and they are bottom of League 1 without a win all season.

I thought Bolton played pretty well. Game was quite entertaining. They were certainly up for it chasing down every ball with urgency unlike our shamble of shit at weekend. 

Keith Hill has got them working hard. Didn't see any slowly slowly sideways passing. If they keep grinding out draws and an odd win they could even stay up.

[OldEwoodBlue]

Just now, J*B said:

It’s not really about what you’re like, it’s more to do with the financial situation which most people in Blackburn find themselves in means paying monthly is the only viable way to get a season ticket because they can’t have £300+ leave their back account in one month. 

bang on Josh.

And...if you don't have a ST you then become a casual walk on or don't go.

6 home games over Nov and Dec is £150 before travel, refreshments, Xmas presents and Waggott Tax. Night games are on the red button for free.

 

I don't see us having regular walk ons who are going to all 6 games. More like a pool of several thousand who might go to 2 or 3 each. Key is to get all those into every game and affordability IS part of that equation.

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

c11,800 Bolton fans so pretty much exactly what we are pulling in... and they are bottom of League 1 without a win all season.

Adversity is bringing them a togetherness its always been a bit of a different scenario there than here they've been shafted by a sequence of events that can happen to any club these days but more of a natural decent as previous decent owner runs out of money and downfall begins right there.

Here we had it taken away by a bunch of crooks and clowns overnight and i doubt there is a club who's fans have had their faces rubbed in it like here for a good number of years.  Damage and suspicion is lasting and always just under the surface but there was a bit of a coming together again in league 1 it almost resembled Mackays days again for those who remember.  

Sadly the club didn't pipe into it and it seems to have slid away again, a one season wonder.  Attitude seems to be right we've done the hard work to right the relegation so lets just get back to plodding as before.  We were a midtable steady Prem club when this lot appeared and that is the wrong that needs to be righted.  Not easy obviously and not all about money but to me they've never ever shown any real desire to do it aside from the first season down out the Prem when they inexplicably and inexcusably let the same snakes who'd took us down blow 50 milliion parachute money plus the rest.

Something is missing here and to me it is still that void between Blackburn and India, until that changes nothing ever will. Monthly transfers of money to keep solvent plug the gap and it's a good job it does but it's not enough really. This end is grateful and that end thinks this end should be as it's doing its bit.

Where's the human angle ?

 

[chaddyrovers]

35 minutes ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

But do you both accept you may be in the minority amongst our ST holders ?

And as we are fundamentally discussing ways to increase attendances...

Do you think there are people who would buy if they could pay over 12 months or are you not assed as long as you are personally OK ?

I would very much accept I am minority. 

They probably few peope who could but chose not attend or cant due to other reasons like work or family. 

I would like Rovers to offer season tickets for under 16's for a pound. Got to get kids interested at early age. Or if you attend a game, then the next one you attend during the same season you get 20% off(something like that). 

Isnt the current arragement with you can pay it over 8 or 10 months at the minute? 

[Stuart]

4 hours ago, K-Hod said:

It’s already just touching £40 a month for where I sit in JW upper.....

You get what you pay for. JW upper has always been premium seating. One of the main reasons I don’t sit there. Especially as I pay for 3 season tickets.

[Guest]

We should adopt a loyalty scheme system.

For me, every year you renew your season ticket you should get an extra (lets say) 5% off for next year. This can build all the way up to (lets say) 40% as a maximum. It rewards fans who have been massively dedicated for a number of years. 

For example I'm just going to use the price £300.00:

ST in Year 1: £300.00
ST in Year 2: £285.00
ST in Year 3: £270.75
ST in  Year 4: £257.21
ST in  Year 5: £244.35 (plus 50% off the new home shirt - or something for a 5 year 'special')
ST in  Year 6: £232.13
ST in  Year 7: £220.52
ST in  Year 8: £209.49

If in Year 7 of holding your Season Ticket the club is relegated, or we have a shocking season, your next season ticket costs almost £100.00 less than the RRP so you'd be less likely to give Ewood up for the year because its cheaper.

The figure that over 1,000 don't renew each year is really sad. In some cases there's reasons for this outside of financial, but for a lot of people football isn't something that is easily affordable. I think loyalty schemes would help those who have committed a big chunk of their money over the years. 

[OldEwoodBlue]

Just now, JoeH said:

We should adopt a loyalty scheme system.

For me, every year you renew your season ticket you should get an extra (lets say) 5% off for next year. This can build all the way up to (lets say) 40% as a maximum. It rewards fans who have been massively dedicated for a number of years. 

For example I'm just going to use the price £300.00:

ST in Year 1: £300.00
ST in Year 2: £285.00
ST in Year 3: £270.75
ST in  Year 4: £257.21
ST in  Year 5: £244.35 (plus 50% off the new home shirt - or something for a 5 year 'special')
ST in  Year 6: £232.13
ST in  Year 7: £220.52
ST in  Year 8: £209.49

If in Year 7 of holding your Season Ticket the club is relegated, or we have a shocking season, your next season ticket costs almost £100.00 less than the RRP so you'd be less likely to give Ewood up for the year because its cheaper.

The figure that over 1,000 don't renew each year is really sad. In some cases there's reasons for this outside of financial, but for a lot of people football isn't something that is easily affordable. I think loyalty schemes would help those who have committed a big chunk of their money over the years. 

Disagree 100%.

It doesn't matter a jot how many years you had a ST.

You pay your money like everyone else for the upcoming season or you don't go. The money is needed to run the club !

So what about the folks who have been going for 60 years or 50 years or 40 years (like me).

Should we not be getting a discount just because we no longer have a ST ?

 

There are 20,000 empty seats. Do you realise that or not ?

There is a need to find new ways to bring new or lapsed or fans into the ground regularly.

Why ?

To improve the atmosphere and balance the books without having £15 million added to the debt every year.

Giving pats on the back and discounts to the existing 8600 ST holders is the opposite of what is required.

 

Edited October 8, 2019 by OldEwoodBlue

[Mark corrigan]

200 pounds season tickets , 10 pounds a ticket walk on price. 2 pounds a pint in the ground it's not difficult.

[Guest]

Just now, OldEwoodBlue said:

Disagree 100%.

It doesn't matter a jot how many years you had a ST.

You pay your money like everyone else for the upcoming season or you don't go. The money is needed to run the club !

So what about the folks who have been going for 60 years or 50 years or 40 years (like me).

Should we not be getting a discount just because we no longer have a ST ?

1,100 people didn't renew season tickets this year. I'd hazard a guess to say that over 75% of those people probably put that down to financial and personal issues. 

700 NEW people bought season tickets this year. If we didn't lose those 1,100, we'd have gained 700 ST holders from last year.

A loyalty scheme would help retain current ST holders, whilst allowing us to bring in new ST holders.

Edited October 8, 2019 by JoeH

[Paul]

4 hours ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

I thought that is what HAS happened this year. No discussion required.

I don't know. Has it?

[OldEwoodBlue]

Just now, Paul said:

I don't know. Has it?

Yes. All matchday prices went up by £3 and STs were frozen.

Based on Riverside

£19 is now £22

£22 is now £25

Then there was the creation of the rip off A+ which is a massive £36 or £40 in the BBE.

The emphasis is on improving the value for money of the ST, now worth 10 free games.

 

https://www.rovers.co.uk/news/2019/july/matchday-prices-2019-20/

 

But if you still can't afford a ST or you will miss lots of games so don't find it worthwhile, it doesn't address the 20K empty seats. That's why sales didn't improve.

 

[Paul]

4 hours ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

But do you both accept you may be in the minority amongst our ST holders ?

And as we are fundamentally discussing ways to increase attendances...

Do you think there are people who would buy if they could pay over 12 months or are you not assed as long as you are personally OK ?

It's a question which can't be answered either way. Those who pay upfront may be the majority.

I see no problem with people paying over twelve months. I'm sure there would be people who buy in those circumstances.

My only issue with any iniative is it should be equally shared amongst all supporters. That is where the difficulty lays with many ideas. There is no reason why I as an existing, long-standing ST holder should not receive the same benefits.

If for example match day prices drop to £20 I expect my ST price to drop pro rata. This is the difficulty. Dropping match day prices requires a massive uplift in sales just to replace the lost value of STs. With walk ons there is no guarantee how often they will attend thus making the calculation of how many are needed to compensate for lost ST revenue almost impossible to calculate.

Edited October 8, 2019 by Paul

[rigger]

Just now, JoeH said:

1,100 people didn't renew season tickets this year. I'd hazard a guess to say that over 75% of those people probably put that down to financial and personal issues. 

700 NEW people bought season tickets this year. If we didn't lose those 1,100, we'd have gained 700 ST holders from last year.

A loyalty scheme would help retain current ST holders, whilst allowing us to bring in new ST holders.

You might find quite a few of them died. 

[OldEwoodBlue]

Just now, Paul said:

It's a question which can't be answered either way. Those who pay upfront may be the majority.

I see no problem with people paying over twelve months. I'm sure there would be people who buy in those circumstances.

My only issue with any iniative is it should be equally shared amongst all supporters. That is where the difficulty lays with many ideas. There is no reason why I as an existing, long-standing ST holder should not receive the same benefits.

If for example match day prices drop to £20 I expect my ST price to drop pro rata. This is the difficulty. Dropping match day prices requires a massive uplift in sales just to replace the lost value of STs. With walk ons there is no guarantee how often they will attend thus making the calculation of how many are needed to compensate for lost ST revenue almost impossible to calculate.

The ultimate answer to increasing attendances is not in the walk ons. It is in getting regular ST holder numbers up.

We have 8600 ST holders and 2000-3000 walk ons.

e.g. Huddersfield have 18000 ST holders and only 2000 matchday tickets available.

The fact that their walk on tickets are limited ensures they are in demand and often sell out.

We need to be aiming for these exact numbers.

 

ST holders should generally be supportive of every effort to get more bodies in the ground and improve the experience you get for your ST money ?

i.e. the value for money of your ST goes up pro rata if the ground is full and has a great atmosphere ?

It isn't a race to the bottom Paul.

 

 

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

The ultimate answer to increasing attendances is not in the walk ons. It is in getting regular ST holder numbers up.

We have 8600 ST holders and 2000-3000 walk ons.

e.g. Huddersfield have 18000 ST holders and only 2000 matchday tickets available.

The fact that their walk on tickets are limited ensures they are in demand and often sell out.

We need to be aiming for these exact numbers.

 

ST holders should generally be supportive of every effort to get more bodies in the ground and improve the experience you get for your ST money ?

i.e. the value for money of your ST goes up pro rata if the ground is full and has a great atmosphere ?

It isn't a race to the bottom Paul.

 

 

And they started it all by slashing prices across the board although i don't know what they charge now but it worked initially.

Average sized northern working class town, small but solid hardcore with thousands more in the woodwork because of many lean years, ring any bells ?

An ambitious thinking out the box managerial recruitment with a nice brand of football helped and vice versa i'd wager with big crowds helping drive them to the Prem.

[Paul]

6 hours ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

The ultimate answer to increasing attendances is not in the walk ons. It is in getting regular ST holder numbers up.

We have 8600 ST holders and 2000-3000 walk ons.

e.g. Huddersfield have 18000 ST holders and only 2000 matchday tickets available.

The fact that their walk on tickets are limited ensures they are in demand and often sell out.

We need to be aiming for these exact numbers.

 

ST holders should generally be supportive of every effort to get more bodies in the ground and improve the experience you get for your ST money ?

i.e. the value for money of your ST goes up pro rata if the ground is full and has a great atmosphere ?

It isn't a race to the bottom Paul.

 

 

I've had a brief look at the Huddersfield website re tickets. It looks very positive and well marketed. The difference between an ST at £10.49/game and a match day ticket at £30 is massive. At £249 the ST is a no brainer. If the object is simply to fill the ground it has worked.

There doesn't appear to be any differential pricing by stand. If Rovers did the same thing all I can say is not a single fan would have the right to complain - at all. Would we do it? I just don't know but I do wonder if it would bring in another 8-10,000 fans. I feel the reasons people stay away go much deeper than price.

I don't accept your argument re improving my match day experience because there are more fans in the ground. I'm supportive of anything Rovers do to increase sales. Yes more fans would improve the atmosphere. I cannot be expected to pay for that.

However I cannot see any reason why as an ST holder of 37+ years who has stuck with the club throughout the last ten years I should not receive a good deal pro rata with the ticket pricing. There has been plenty of chat on here about Rovers upsetting fans by moving them etc. If the club want to upset me then cutting prices and failing to pro rata that to ST holders will do it. I am not prepared to pay more, pro rata, to effectively subsidise those who have chosen to stay away for ten years.

If the club had a similar policy to Huddersfield and every ST holder got in for, say, £10 I could happily live with that. £10 would be a slight price increase for me. As a senior my ST is £215 but my lad pays £349.

Edited October 8, 2019 by Paul

[Stuart]

Just now, Paul said:

I've had a brief look at the Huddersfield website re tickets. It looks very positive and well marketed. The difference between an ST £10.49/game and a match day ticket at £30 is massive. At £249 the ST is a no brainer. If the object is simply to fill the ground it has worked.

There doesn't appear to be any differential pricing by stand. If Rovers did the same thing all I can say is not a single fan would have the right to complain - at all. Would we do it? I just don't know but I do wonder if it would bring in another 8-10,000 fans. I feel the reasons people stay away go much deeper than price.

I don't accept your argument re improving my match day experience because there are more fans in the ground. I'm supportive of anything Rovers do to increase sales. Yes more fans would improve the atmosphere.

However I cannot see any reason why as an ST holder of 37+ years who has stuck with the club throughout the last ten years I should not receive a good deal pro rata with the ticket pricing. There has been plenty of chat on here about Rovers upsetting fans by moving them etc. If the club want to upset me then cutting prices and failing to pro rata that to ST holders will do it. I am not prepared to pay more, pro rata, to effectively subsidise those who have chosen to stay away for ten years.

If the club had a similar policy to Huddersfield and every ST holder got in for, say, £10 I could happily live with that. £10 would be a slight price increase for me. As a senior my ST is £215 but my lad pays £349.

Sorry Paul but that’s such a one-eyed view.

I would absolutely support a pricing regime that all adult STs were £249.

Why would you think it’s ok for someone to pay £399, an excess of £150 and subsidising 70% of your £215 ticket, but you’d begrudge them (and more importantly new and returning fans) paying £150 less because you had to pay £44 more subsidising them by less than 20%?

Time now you and your lad cost £564. Under such a scheme you’d pay £498. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite you face!

[Paul]

@Stuart I think you are taking the sentence you have highlighted and applied it to the following paragraph.

To be clear my position is this. If the club were to cut the price of match day tickets then as an ST holder I would expect my ST to reduce pro rata. I have yet to read an argument which justifies long-standing ST holders not benefitting to the same Ievel as other fans.

If the club decide to sell ALL season tickets at £249 I have no problem with that even though I would be paying £34 more than I do today.

I'm afraid I don't follow your maths in the second paragraph. In the JWL a full ST is £349 and a senior £215. I'm not sure what your other figures are saying.

Seniors receiving lower prices is embedded in our society. I get a discount at the barbers, on the train, cinema, everywhere. It's not a subsidy it's what businesses chose to do.