Attendances

[DeeCee]

1 hour ago, Proudtobeblue&white said:

Stuart, we are as one, save you continue to go and I don't. Performance/price. Absolutely crucial, but behind it all is the Loon factor. They have killed the ten of us who used to go to the Observatory, have a beer, eat, serve the local economy, then go to the match. I was once die hard, but not now. We all make life choices, I have decided again not to return until they leave. The crave has been extracted from me, and the reports of the games at home since I  attended in December last year, do nothing to encourage my return. A lot have lost the will.

I've got an easy get out as I live 350 miles away but if I was local, I think I'd always be giving them "one last chance"

Sounds/looks hypocritical now I've typed it ?

[Paul]

15 hours ago, Ozz said:

No I was mocking the suggestion that while £45 for three tickets was good , Rovers should offer installments! 

Frankly if that offer is not good enough then one should consider an alternative hobby. 

 

Its £12? to get on Chorley now!

Yes, I thought you were Ozz but wasn't entirely sure. No it's £15 at Chorley, the same as the per game ST price at Ewood.  £15 for Chorley - I discovered that when I went to the Stockport game. Not sure what to make of it, I didn't mind a tenner but £15 seems to push it too far. Much the same argument as some put forward about Ewood prices but the football is three divisions higher let alone the facilities.

[Paul]

@Stuart but do you really feel on some sort of £15 deal we would get bumper crowds for attractive fixtures?

More generally I see it like this. I don't suggest the club should give up but I simply can't see how anything price related will have a serious impact. Other than ST holders I no longer know anyone who even thinks about going to Ewood. £5 or £10 special offer? 2-3000 for one game perhaps but then a conversion to regular attendance? I just can't see it happening.

I've explained my reasons many times. It would be boring to repeat them. The hard truth is we've lost 10,000 from the gate and nothing other than PL football will bring them back.

Personally I have serious doubts even  PL football would make a huge difference. I would argue the one chance Rovers have would be to market STs in such a way as to make entrance to watch Liverpool, City, etc a very attractive proposition. Palace, Watford, Bournemouth? Hardly sets the pulse racing for many does it?

[OldEwoodBlue]

How did we fill Ewood against OXFORD UNITED ?

Edited October 16, 2019 by OldEwoodBlue

[MarkBRFC]

Just now, OldEwoodBlue said:

How did we fill Ewood against OXFORD CITY ?

We had just won a promotion, and it was £10 a ticket.

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, OldEwoodBlue said:

How did we fill Ewood against OXFORD UNITED ?

And how many fans only came cos we got promoted and was glory hunting? 

And how many of those fans have been back to a game since then? 

[OldEwoodBlue]

So the fans exist and can be enticed by £10 tickets. Interesting.

8600 ×14.30 = £122,980 ST income

3000 x 22 = £66,000 walk on income

 

or

18000 x 15 = £270,000

 

Conclusion.

Abandon season tickets and the outdated idea they are an attractive offer in 2020. 

They offer no value for money because

a.) The atmosphere is none existent.

b.) The entertainment is very poor.

c.) The potential customers cannot afford them.

 

Flat rate of £15 per game for all supporters i.e. no discounts for the wealthy who can afford a ST.

Membership available at £345 over 12 months at £28.75 per month or £15 per match.

Members get benefits such as priority on away tickets, the odd voucher and free entry to U23 games but not discounted match prices.

Membership auto-renews unless you cancel like everything else... so people dont have to choose to renew. They have to choose to cancel.

None of this silly 1875 nonsense which adds to the "them and us" elite fan mentality. People want to simply be able to go to watch a football match when they want to and always be charged a fair price.

 

If I get in from work 10 minutes before KO I want to go be able to choose to go down without being penilised or ripped off. I am NOT a lesser fan than the person that could decide 2 weeks before.

If I am weekly paid & can only afford £20 including a pint, I want to be able to go down and watch my team. I am NOT a lesser fan the person who could afford £400 in one go for a ST in the JW.

If the game is on Sky I ideally want to go to the live game and feel the atmosphere in a full stadium. If the Sky alternative is a lifeless empty stadium I will not see the ADDED VALUE of spending £30.

 

[Mashed Potatoes]

Just now, OldEwoodBlue said:

So the fans exist and can be enticed by £10 tickets. Interesting.

8600 ×14.30 = £122,980 ST income

3000 x 22 = £66,000 walk on income

 

or

18000 x 15 = £270,000

 

Conclusion.

Abandon season tickets and the outdated idea they are an attractive offer in 2020. 

They offer no value for money because

a.) The atmosphere is none existent.

b.) The entertainment is very poor.

c.) The potential customers cannot afford them.

 

Flat rate of £15 per game for all supporters i.e. no discounts for the wealthy who can afford a ST.

Membership available at £345 over 12 months at £28.75 per month or £15 per match.

Members get benefits such as priority on away tickets, the odd voucher and free entry to U23 games but not discounted match prices.

Membership auto-renews unless you cancel like everything else... so people dont have to choose to renew. They have to choose to cancel.

None of this silly 1875 nonsense which adds to the "them and us" elite fan mentality. People want to simply be able to go to watch a football match when they want to and always be charged a fair price.

 

If I get in from work 10 minutes before KO I want to go be able to choose to go down without being penilised or ripped off. I am NOT a lesser fan than the person that could decide 2 weeks before.

If I am weekly paid & can only afford £20 including a pint, I want to be able to go down and watch my team. I am NOT a lesser fan the person who could afford £400 in one go for a ST in the JW.

If the game is on Sky I ideally want to go to the live game and feel the atmosphere in a full stadium. If the Sky alternative is a lifeless empty stadium I will not see the ADDED VALUE of spending £30.

 

I think you are wrong about season tickets where the pricing rewards loyal supporters and they provide the convenience of only having to make one purchase as well as securing a seat in a particular spot. Is there any club which has abandoned the idea ?

[MarkBRFC]

Glory hunting ?

Everything aligned on that day, it was one of the very rare "occasion" matches at Ewood in recent years where it was the last day of the season, £10 a ticket, bank holiday weekend, glorious day weatherwise, late afternoon kick off, and the promise of a "promotion celebration day".

A lot probably made a day or weekend of it, a lot of exiled fans probably came over with it being a rare day.

I honestly think they could make it £10 every game and there wouldn't be that much of an increase if we're still plodding about between 12th & 16th in this league.

[OldEwoodBlue]

Season Tickets = Value for money

FAKE NEWS PEOPLE....FAKE NEWS !

 

Opportunities for the few keeping the many away from Ewood (and other grounds).

Take back the peoples game and give it back to the people.

 

Come on Mr Waggott, show your leadership and be brave. It is no longer 1970 in our great town. We need 18,000 average gates and your task is to deliver that. Think outside of this box I have to type in. We need to innovate our whole approach to selling our product to our (potential) customers.

[OldEwoodBlue]

Just now, Mashed Potatoes said:

I think you are wrong about season tickets where the pricing rewards loyal supporters and they provide the convenience of only having to make one purchase as well as securing a seat in a particular spot. Is there any club which has abandoned the idea ?

Elitist out of date view.

I am more loyal than they are which makes me a better fan.

You can go for 50 years and never have a ST and yet you are not loyal ?

 

So they can have an option to pay your 12 month membership in one payment if a 12 month direct debit is too inconvenient for super fans. Auto-renewable of course...

I am all for flexiblity to facilitate all circumstances and generations.

The key is that the system treats ALL fans the same and facilitates the less wealthy INSTEAD of rewarding the wealthy.

 

As with everything in life, the innovative forward thinkers will lead the way in change. Huddersfield as one example have taken this route to answer your question.

[Paul]

 

@OldEwoodBlue

If everyone is paying £15 or whatever I'm OK with this provided my ST does not increase. I still believe an ST holder who pays up front should receive a good deal but in the interest of filling the ground I'll ignore it.

I'm struggling with the view holding a season ticket makes me an elitist, wealthy, super fan. I put aside money every month to cover all my one off household expenses. This ranges from the water bill, car insurance, Christmas through to season tickets and a host of other things. I fully understand there are people who for one reason or another cannot or do not wish to budget in this way.

If there are no season tickets we will probably stop going. Why?

1. My son is disabled. I need guaranteed seats with a good line of vision. Ideally these are aisle seats approximately on the halfway line. I need to be as sure as possible no one will stand up in front of my lad. I need as few steps to the seats as possible

2. Our current STs guarantee this

3. I do not want to have to remember to buy tickets every home game

4. If there is some form of "guarantee your seat" as with cup games. I do not want this. I'm too busy to remember.

5. I do not want to worry about my tickets turning up in the post

If you want to piss off 8600 fans by describing them as wealthy, elitist super fans you've certainly achieved it with this one. It's nice to know after 37 years of having an ST, in that time I was often buying four, I've never really been welcome in the ground in the eyes of some fans.

I find your posts in this tone quite appalling. It seems you have a severe problem with people who chose to run their lives differently or hold other opinions.

I suggest you have a long hard think and decide if this is reasonable behaviour.

 

Edited October 16, 2019 by Paul

[only2garners]

+1 for Paul's post above.

It's not even a practical idea. No doubt if we charged £10 or £15 for the home game with Preston we would have a bumper crowd but how many would we have had for the game with Forest? Team playing poorly, Tuesday night, bad weather, game on Sky red button - the crowd would be down to the level of an early League Cup game, a few thousand. 4,000 at £10 doesn't look quite so good.

[tomphil]

I've always thought if you're going to do the odd discount ticket game then do it v the Prestons, Wigans etc or maybe the bigger clubs in the div who might be exiled from the Prem a season or two like a Villa type for example.

Games that have a bit of extra interest around them should be used to maximise the pull factor not just maximise a few quid extra by fleecing away fans and the few extra home fans who might turn out.  Get the place filled up WHEN there is the opportunity there's nothing better to get interest going again or youngsters hooked than a big crowd, proper atmosphere and hopefully a game to match.

Pretty pointless doing these things for unattractive fixtures then hoping it'll put a few extra thousand on when in reality it ends up a few hundred.

Done properly the PNE game could have 25k on every season including their over excitable oddball rabble in their annual cup final.  Make the most of these games whilst we have them.

Sadly those lot down Ewood don't want to know, easy street all the way i'm pretty sure if there was someone a bit more local in charge on the ground instead of an Indian messenger they'd be saying the same as me. So what if they have hire a few more stewards and have a bigger police bill for the day it'll get covered and that's what these things are there for. 

Edited October 16, 2019 by tomphil

[Lancs Rover]

I think we are trapped in the wrong argument with regard to ticket prices. As has been mentioned over and over, the relationship between ticket prices and attendances is not a causal one: cheaper tickets do not - in isolation - result in higher attendances.

The performance of the team - winning games, playing well - is obviously a factor but doesn't correlate with higher attendances (though that is actually hypothetical as we have never looked liked getting anywhere near promotion from the Championship and fought the gravity of relegation for years in the Premier League).

FWIW, I think the club needs to radically re-think its relationship with the town and local area. BRFC Trust, for example, engage in many worthy activities. But players taking training sessions at local schools like they have been doing this week can't really be seen as serious outreach on their own. These kinds of activities have been going on since I was at school forty years ago: they provided a conversational topic for a short time but the old cynicism about the Rovers was never far below the surface for most kids. Few converts were made. 

The club needs to ask itself some serious questions regarding what Blackburn Rovers is really about. What purpose does it serve locally? And, most of all, who cares? The die-hards are passionate, the rest are tepid if they are interested at all. Not all are passionate, not all are moved to attend even in the good times. So, this group need to be given a reason to attend.

Blackburn people generally are proud of their town and local area. They might mock it and mock themselves but, in my opinion, cut them and they'll bleed. There's a renaissance in Lancashire' industrial and cultural heritage: look at how Manchester and Liverpool have reinvented themselves as modern and with proud past. Look at the British Textile Biennial for just one instance.

If the Venks are interesed in the long term, they need to get a grasp on the local culture and economy: that basically means local people, local memories and local ambitions. That is what the club should be part of, a point that Jack Walker knew instinctively because he, and many of the local gliterati such as Our Dougie, grew up here.

This is Blackburn's club; it's what the Venks 'bought' when they purchased the club. But they need, firstly, get a hold of that idea and then, secondly, have the imagination and courage to do something about it. Without the local element, and a drive to serve the town, like Jack, they will be stuck where they are - and so will our meagre attendances.

[Stuart]

I think the point that @OldEwoodBlue is making is a very simple one: 

£15 per ticket is too much for a lot of people.

What has got his nose out of joint - and as always it’s the retaliator who gets a yellow card - is that the answer to that statement seems to be:

Tough, go and do something else that is within your budget because I’m happy with the current set up.

@Paul I get that you are aggrieved at the perceived tone but equally your post talks a lot about your own circumstances without considering others’. You just believe that your post is more polite while others take offence that their affordability concerns are not shared by fellow fans.

[Hasta]

4 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

And how many fans only came cos we got promoted and was glory hunting? 

And how many of those fans have been back to a game since then? 

So basically your point is that we might as well give up because if fans aren't going to return after spending £10 to come to a celebratory party atmosphere in the sun, then a "£45 for 3-game" offer in the bleak late-Autumn is not going to attract anyone to come long term.

I disagree. I think filling the ground for several one-off occasions will get people used to going to Ewood and may catch the imagination of younger fans who don't attend regularly. I don't have the figures but I'm sure season tickets and walk ons increased last year compared to the League One season. For all you know a lot of those extra fans in the Championship last season only attended one game in League One - Oxford.

Doing a special deal to try and fill the home ends once or twice a season cannot be a bad thing, but those offers have to be things like Boxing Day or Preston / Leeds at home on a Saturday.  A dead-rubber at home to QPR on a Tuesday night in April doesn't get people's interest the same.

Edited October 16, 2019 by Hasta

[Stuart]

The most recent initiative that has worked has been a £10 ticket to an accessible, interesting game.

This worked.

Since then, for league games, there have been

- 6-match deals (at ST prices)

- £10,000 draw ST-sales incentive 

- 3-match deals (at ST prices)

These haven’t worked.

Yet people seem to think that £10 match deals aren’t a good idea and are at pains to prove that.

The underlying reason for opposition seems to be: why should a walk-on fan get a better price than a ST holder - even for one game?

The answer, surely, is that this is how you grow your fanbase... short term impact, long term reward.

[only2garners]

I absolutely do believe that a £10 or £15 deal is a good idea and I also agree that it should be done at a popular attractive fixture and not a winter Tuesday night.

But I was replying to Old Ewood Blue who was suggesting that we should do away with season tickets and just charge £10 -15 a game - that absolutely won't work.

[chaddyrovers]

we shouldn't get rid of season ticket holders at all. Some people have been one for many many years. Ive had mine over 20 years and I have my current seat for 6 years and I wouldn't want to move anywhere else. 

14 minutes ago, Hasta said:

So basically your point is that we might as well give up because if fans aren't going to return after spending £10 to come to a celebratory party atmosphere in the sun, then a "£45 for 3-game" offer in the bleak late-Autumn is not going to attract anyone to come long term.

I disagree. I think filling the ground for several one-off occasions will get people used to going to Ewood and may catch the imagination of younger fans who don't attend regularly. HI don't have the figures but I'm sure season tickets and walk ons increased last year compared to the League One season. For all you know a lot of those extra fans in the Championship last season only attended one game in League One - Oxford.

Doing a special deal to try and fill the home ends once or twice a season cannot be a bad thing, but those offers have to be things like Boxing Day or Preston / Leeds at home on a Saturday.  A dead-rubber at home to QPR on a Tuesday night in April doesn't get people's interest the same.

Some people only turn up for that one game clearly, I was asking 2 simple questions. Maybe someone from the fans forum could get those answers to the questions. 

I think the 3 games for 45 pounds is a good offer and cheap enough. 

I have been over and over why people don't commit to a season ticket that I know and cost isnt the problem but other factors. 

I suggested in the summer that they should do a special deal for the Boxing game at home. Then maybe if you attend that game if get a discount of a Preston game ticket

 

[Dolly blue]

Don’t call me a plastic fan, a non season holder, therefore, second rate fan...I’m a fan of many, many years. It matters little what Waggott and his merry  men do with season tickets and / or walk on prices.....what REALLY matters is WHAT TONY PUTS ON THE PITCH IN WHAT POSITIONS.....We had a decent gate against Luton ....and what did he do??? ......he continued to play players out of position, he continued to confirm we have little no plan  , he continued to add to the very poor match day atmosphere by being responsible for very poor football. 

”Defenders are coming”...fans aren’t Tony....Mowbray is , I believe , largely responsible for the very poor gates...I’m not asking for a team that wins every week...Im asking for a manager who gives us hope....and that hope gets us down to Ewood....it’s not happening.....but it so could with the right man in the dressing room ....it’s nothing to do with price incentives.

Edited October 16, 2019 by Dolly blue

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, Stuart said:

The underlying reason for opposition seems to be: why should a walk-on fan get a better price than a ST holder - even for one game?

The answer, surely, is that this is how you grow your fanbase... short term impact, long term reward.

well I'm sorry Stuart but season tickets holders should get the better deals as we keep attending every home game. 

Yes do a special deal for 1 game like the Boxing day game. No problems. 

But I'm not sure how many more after that game will season ticket long term. Maybe do the offer I have just suggested above

[gumboots]

I wanted to get a season ticket this year for the first time in ages. I know I've mentioned this loads of times but this year, for the first time, i was very serious. I got as far as filling in an application. But my husband was less keen although it seemed a very reasonable price to me. 

We didn't do it. But we did attend the Luton game, the first game wed have been able to attend anyway as we didn't come home from holidays till mid september. How glad I was that we hadn't committed to watching that every few weeks. 

As Dolly Blue says, it's not winning every match that matters. Its watching 14 guys across a match on the pitch where you feel every player has given everything in a system that suits them so that you feel you have a chance of winning. Premier league or not, many fans would want to watch if the team looked to have a coherent pattern of play and looked fit, ready to play for one another and won or drew more than they lost

Edited October 16, 2019 by gumboots

[Sparks Rover]

Just now, Dolly blue said:

Don’t call me a plastic fan, a non season holder, therefore, second rate fan...I’m a fan of many, many years. It matters little what Waggott and his merry  men do with season tickets and / or walk on prices.....what REALLY matters is WHAT TONY PUTS ON THE PITCH IN WHAT POSITIONS.....We had a decent gate against Luton ....and what did he do??? ......he continued to play players out of position, he continued to confirm we have little no plan  , he continued to add to the very poor match day atmosphere by being responsible for very poor football. 

”Defenders are coming”...fans aren’t Tony....Mowbray is , I believe , largely responsible for the very poor gates...I’m not asking for a team that wins every week...Im asking for a manager who gives us hope....and that hope gets us down to Ewood....it’s not happening.....but it so could with the right man in the dressing room ....don’t waste your time looking at price incentives.

Spot on, I agree . First game of season was exactly the same, 

[Crimpshrine]

1 hour ago, BRFC64 said:

 

If the Venks are interesed in the long term, they need to get a grasp on the local culture and economy: that basically means local people, local memories and local ambitions. That is what the club should be part of, a point that Jack Walker knew instinctively because he, and many of the local gliterati such as Our Dougie, grew up here.

This is Blackburn's club; it's what the Venks 'bought' when they purchased the club. But they need, firstly, get a hold of that idea and then, secondly, have the imagination and courage to do something about it. Without the local element, and a drive to serve the town, like Jack, they will be stuck where they are - and so will our meagre attendances.

This is the problem in a nutshell.

The club is soulless at the moment and until some excitement and drive is generated from within, how can they expect a dejected fan base to buy into anything?

I can't see any initiatives working while the 'occupation' continues.