Attendances

[only2garners]

14 hours ago, 47er said:

I've ben asking about the Forum and what it might do about the various ideas that have been suggested on here. I said "there must be some posters on here who are members of the Forum" or words to that effect.

And nobody responded and you're the Secretary!

So, will you be raising the matter of pricing and the various options people have listed on here at your next meeting with the club.

Any chance of you posting their responses?

I didn't realise it was compulsory to respond to posts on here.

I have been keeping my eye on this thread and fully intend to represent these views when we talk about attendances at the next meeting. But given the next meeting is not for more than two weeks I didn't see the need to make this point until nearer the meeting. I was planning to post to this effect before we set the agenda but then there was a post about the Forum and the date of the Supporter Consultation Meeting was announced yesterday so I posted.

As for responses, a set of minutes are always produced after the meeting and posted on the club website, usually within a week of the meeting.

[47er]

 

Its not compulsory of course but it is polite. 

Anyway, thanks for your response.

 

[unsall]

On 24/10/2018 at 14:43, PeteJD13 said:

No I'm saying Bolton have noticed crowds are down and are trying something to get fans back at an affordable price it works out at 15 quid a game starting with the boxing day fixture. I think its a good idea and any initiative to get more bums on seats at an affordable price should be applauded.

Of course it’s a good idea, we do it every season at similar prices, expecting an announcement shortly, the full season tickets ar £349 also give you an equivalent of £15 a game and like you said it’s an affordable price.

[Mercer]

Across industry and commerce you have to get your pricing strategy right - it makes or breaks brands and companies.

I challenge anyone to articulate what Rovers' pricing strategy is!

[DeeCee]

38 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Across industry and commerce you have to get your pricing strategy right - it makes or breaks brands and companies.

I challenge anyone to articulate what Rovers' pricing strategy is!

You mean to say they've got one? 

[Paul]

10 hours ago, Mercer said:

Across industry and commerce you have to get your pricing strategy right - it makes or breaks brands and companies.

I challenge anyone to articulate what Rovers' pricing strategy is!

For the past 25 years or more the strategy has been to encourage and reward ST holders with very competitive pricing.

I would have thought that obvious. How one views it's success or otherwise is up for debate. One view would be we appear to have a high proportion of our match day crowd who are ST holders suggesting the strategy works.

[Athlete]

2 minutes ago, Paul said:

For the past 25 years or more the strategy has been to encourage and reward ST holders with very competitive pricing.

I would have thought that obvious. How one views it's success or otherwise is up for debate. One view would be we appear to have a high proportion of our match day crowd who are ST holders suggesting the strategy works.

It hasn't worked this season rovers shouldn't have increased ST prices and should have rode the wave of optimism 

We don't have a big catchment area we also have the sky factor and Before we start on the demographics of the town argument BwD is a very low paid area whoever is the CEO has to do their homework like John Williams did obviously waggott is going for small profit gains before he moves on 

[Mercer]

17 minutes ago, Paul said:

For the past 25 years or more the strategy has been to encourage and reward ST holders with very competitive pricing.

I would have thought that obvious. How one views it's success or otherwise is up for debate. One view would be we appear to have a high proportion of our match day crowd who are ST holders suggesting the strategy works.

When you are out of the PL and your ticket income (ST's & walk-ons) is a far bigger proportion of your turnover then it's an entirely different ball game. 

I don't see much imagination in Rovers' offerings to both ST holders and non ST holders and that's why, by Waggott's own admission. crowds at Ewood are a concern.  Waggott's paid a lot of money to get things right and he needs to earn it. 

Edited October 27, 2018 by Mercer

[tomphil]

10 hours ago, Mercer said:

Across industry and commerce you have to get your pricing strategy right - it makes or breaks brands and companies.

I challenge anyone to articulate what Rovers' pricing strategy is!

Very competitive ST's but walk on prices designed only to

A) Make ST's good value

B ) Maximise revenue from the away fans and hardcore walk ons

[AshleyClifford]

Season tickets are excellent value for money. The fact Bolton are getting praised for similarly priced season tickets is odd. Yes, £350 is a lot of money upfront, but payments can be spread over 10 months as well as other payment options. Also worth stressing, having to renew a season tickets comes as no surprise- so you can save up/plan ahead. 

To me having a season ticket does not mean I’ll attend every game but will work out cheaper as long as I go to enough matches. I understand people can not always commit, but that is the value of a season ticket. If it were £20 or less on the day I would only pay for the games I could go to. (Which by the way could well be 10+ but not more than 15) 

i feel this would reduce the number of season tickets sold, we would be riliant on an unknown amount of “walk ons”  I’m just not sure this would increase attendances. If I were to start buying match day tickets I reckon I would go to even fewer games as I oftenn have to a range in advance things like child care etc.

Reducing season ticket prices is an option, how ever I already feel they are good value.

finally I expect the early bird price to be £400 next year. (350 riverside)

[Paul]

28 minutes ago, AshleyClifford said:

Season tickets are excellent value for money. The fact Bolton are getting praised for similarly priced season tickets is odd. Yes, £350 is a lot of money upfront, but payments can be spread over 10 months as well as other payment options. Also worth stressing, having to renew a season tickets comes as no surprise- so you can save up/plan ahead. 

To me having a season ticket does not mean I’ll attend every game but will work out cheaper as long as I go to enough matches. I understand people can not always commit, but that is the value of a season ticket. If it were £20 or less on the day I would only pay for the games I could go to. (Which by the way could well be 10+ but not more than 15) 

i feel this would reduce the number of season tickets sold, we would be riliant on an unknown amount of “walk ons”  I’m just not sure this would increase attendances. If I were to start buying match day tickets I reckon I would go to even fewer games as I oftenn have to a range in advance things like child care etc.

Reducing season ticket prices is an option, how ever I already feel they are good value.

finally I expect the early bird price to be £400 next year. (350 riverside)

I'm very much in agreement with you on this and to me the answer to your first question is clear.

Praising Bolton for offering exactly the same pricing as Rovers have for the season is an ill informed criticism of our club and specifically Waggot. It's a local sport.

[gumboots]

I don't think anyone can deny that our season tickets are reasonably priced if you can attend enough matches, although the increase this year was a bit steep. However, walk on prices and especially if you factor in a surcharge are high. I wouldn't suggest cheap match day tickets overall but a flat rate of £25 or so without surcharges might make a difference to crowds as would the occasional really cheap promotion. Its about getting people through the door in the first place then hopefully converting them to season ticket holders. There has to be more the club can do without annoying existing st holders or offering a price that costs more than it brings in. 

[Paul]

1 hour ago, Mercer said:

When you are out of the PL and your ticket income (ST's & walk-ons) is a far bigger proportion of your turnover then it's an entirely different ball game. 

I don't see much imagination in Rovers' offerings to both ST holders and non ST holders and that's why, by Waggott's own admission. crowds at Ewood are a concern.  Waggott's paid a lot of money to get things right and he needs to earn it. 

I agree there is little imagination but it is very difficult to see where the club can go. We've enjoyed low ST prices for 25 years or more. This to me is now the problem as increased ST prices upset holders as will significant reductions in match day prices as this makes the ST less competitive, especially for those who don't attend every game.

I don't subscribe to the view this year's increase was a mistake. There had to be one at some point and promotion to a better league was the right opportunity. Maintaining prices might have had some impact but nothing significant.

I think tomphil's view walk on prices are artificially high is probably right but I don't see how that can change when considering ST prices - reductions to say £20, WBA price today, can't work. I've yet to see any real evidence low ticket prices increase gates.

It isn't just a case of bums on seats but a balancing act of reducing prices, increased costs and the tipping point at which lower revenue from ST holders is countered by increased attendances.

Turnover is vanity, profit sanity and cash reality.

[Paul]

8 minutes ago, gumboots said:

 or offering a price that costs more than it brings in. 

This is the issue which is so frequently ignored by those calling for lower prices. There are major cost benefits to understanding how many people are going to turn up.

Significantly lowering match day prices commits the club for a season. Stewarding, food, drink etc all have to accounted for and not enough fans at low prices does not work.

10000 fans are lost. Cheap tickets won't bring them back.

[Ozz]

There is a financial argument for some clubs to not bother with ticket fees at all, they make money without them.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44850888

(I know this is Premier League)

Paul I know you will remember John Williams' drive to fill Ewood via cheap tickets some years ago, he recognised the benefits of a large home crowd on team morale/performance. 

Ten years ago Bradford City launched their very aggressive ST price imitative to some success.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2009/jul/12/bradford-city-season-tickets-supporters

"There is a drawback, of course. Because of the reduced prices Bradford are not making two or three times as much money as their rivals. Roughly speaking, they have dropped their prices by half and gained twice as many supporters, so income-wise they are little better off. Yet the matchday experience at Valley Parade is better for all concerned when there are 12,000 in the ground rather than 5,000 or 6,000, subsidiary revenue goes up and all the young spectators enticed in by the cheap rates are potentially Bradford supporters for the future."

That article goes on to talk about changing the offer being important, which I agree with too. BOGOF was used by Bradford.  Their gates have never dropped below 10k in the last ten years, whilst playing in the third and forth tiers. 

So whilst I agree that a constant devaluing of the product at Ewood does have a down side, there is a strong case for pursuing a more aggressive pricing of tickets at football matches. 

[only2garners]

There is one problem with Bradford City’s approach - it has not brought any success on the pitch. They are currently bottom of League 1.

You might think that bigger crowds would by now have brought some success on the pitch if the theory about the effect on performance was right. You might also think that with a big catchment area (a lot bigger than ours), they would have have picked up more fans in those seasons that they were around the play-offs. 

Does anyone seriously think that if we halved our ST prices we would sell double I.e. 20,000?

[blueboy3333]

1 minute ago, only2garners said:

There is one problem with Bradford City’s approach - it has not brought any success on the pitch. They are currently bottom of League 1.

You might think that bigger crowds would by now have brought some success on the pitch if the theory about the effect on performance was right. You might also think that with a big catchment area (a lot bigger than ours), they would have have picked up more fans in those seasons that they were around the play-offs. 

Does anyone seriously think that if we halved our ST prices we would sell double I.e. 20,000?

The voice of the fans forum. The fans have no chance. 

 

[Paul]

Just now, only2garners said:

 

Does anyone seriously think that if we halved our ST prices we would sell double I.e. 20,000?

There are plenty who will tell you that we would get close. It's nonsense in my view. I doubt we could add 2000. 

I think a realistic mid term target would be 12000 STs at current prices and assuming we are in the Championship next season - we won't go down.

What I feel the club should do is survey ST holders to understand what if any benefits they would appreciate. For me not being held in the car parks would be a serious benefit. I understand why, but think it unreasonable, that home fans should be held back because of away fans potential behaviour.

[Paul]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

The voice of the fans forum. The fans have no chance. 

 

Then put yourself forward for the Fans Forum. Anyone can.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Paul said:

Then put yourself forward for the Fans Forum. Anyone can.

If fans on the fans forum don't represent the fans it needs disbanding. I'm not sure I could personally stomach being in the presence of a fan arguing against price cuts. 

[Ozz]

29 minutes ago, only2garners said:

There is one problem with Bradford City’s approach - it has not brought any success on the pitch. They are currently bottom of League 1.

You might think that bigger crowds would by now have brought some success on the pitch if the theory about the effect on performance was right. You might also think that with a big catchment area (a lot bigger than ours), they would have have picked up more fans in those seasons that they were around the play-offs. 

Does anyone seriously think that if we halved our ST prices we would sell double I.e. 20,000?

Then they're doing something wrong elsewhere.

And no we wouldn't. But we might need to re open upper BBE. 

[only2garners]

1. I’m not the voice of the Fans Forum. I’m the secretary and one voice amongst many.

2. I’m not against price cuts. I was just pointing out the economics of halving prices.

3. The Forum represents a wide range of fans’ opinions and guess what, we don’t all agree all the time. I don’t agree with some of the opinions offered and I’m sure plenty disagree with me. Ther are plenty of different opinions on this thread and across this message board too.

Anyway blueboy, I’m apparently only there to hob nob with the bosses according to you.

[OldEwoodBlue]

45 minutes ago, Paul said:

 

What I feel the club should do is survey ST holders to understand what if any benefits they would appreciate. 

What is the point of asking ST holders what they think ?

They have already proclaimed they will renew no matter what.

 

Try asking lapsed ST holders like myself why they are not going back.

Isn’t the thread about how to increase attendances ?

[OldEwoodBlue]

30 minutes ago, Ozz said:

But we might need to re open upper BBE. 

That would mean increased matchday operational costs Ozz

Better to shut the Riverside and fill the gaps everywhere else.

The only fans they are interested in are the Sky red button cameras

Or is that Camera

 

The rest of us are a nuisance

[blueboy3333]

28 minutes ago, only2garners said:

Anyway blueboy, I’m apparently only there to hob nob with the bosses according to you.

They would certainly love your poo-pooing of price cuts a la Bradford. You're doing their job for them. Did you use to be Nick Clegg in 2010?