Attendances

[DeeCee]

More carrot, less stick

[blueboy3333]

8 hours ago, Biz said:

The discussion seemed to be suggesting the surcharges and costs are putting people off in numbers

That isn't what the discussion is about at all. The discussion is why the club are imposing a surcharge on people just because they may not be able or want  to commit to a ticket before midday/1pm on a Saturday. Nobody knows how many people it is putting off going. It is the message it sends that is important. That message is 'BRFC would rather cut down on admin costs than get more people in the ground'. It is counter-intuitive to the spiel Waggott comes out with about 'building a club'. 

[JBiz]

5 hours ago, Stuart said:

But while you are here, do you want to buy my bridge?

So the club are conning fans?

4 hours ago, gumboots said:

people who have been so worn down by events at Ewood over a number of years that the words enjoyable Saturday afternoon and Rovers don't quite go together in their minds anymore. They may have felt marginalised by the club in the past, even if they can see the sense of some of the decisions that annoyed them. 

See I agree but people aren’t put off because of a 3 pound late comer charge. It’s however many years of bad management.

As I pointed out, when the ticket is already 27 quid for standard lowest price seating on a normal “none standout” second tier game; you’ll do well to convince anyone who is out of the habit. I don’t think it’s the price, it’s the knock on of that recent history and the standard of second tier in some eyes.

I tend to think this is worse now with Talksport being simply Arsenal and Tottenham, the dominance of the top six and the cost of the world class players being 100x of those only really marginally below.

20 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

That isn't what the discussion is about at all. The discussion is why the club are imposing a surcharge on people just because they may not be able or want  to commit to a ticket before midday/1pm on a Saturday. Nobody knows how many people it is putting off going. It is the message it sends that is important. That message is 'BRFC would rather cut down on admin costs than get more people in the ground'. It is counter-intuitive to the spiel Waggott comes out with about 'building a club'. 

To sound like a broken record, I see it as a “negligible”, a non event that for all we know, does more to encourage membership into the reward scheme than put off those “only know my weekend plans by 1:15pm Saturday” fans.

The “messages” from the club, aka the commitment and results of the team, of players and staff, investment in the squad, improved communication and social media coverage, new offers, events like the bonfire activity - it’s a stretch for me to get out my pram because of a charge that I’ll never even pay.

[gumboots]

19 minutes ago, Biz said:

 

See I agree but people aren’t put off because of a 3 pound late comer charge. It’s however many years of bad management.

 

From the outside, the bad management of many aspects of the club is still continuing. Once you're aggrieved, cheesed off with the club for all the things that have been done so badly over those years you take more than a little persuading that things have really not just cosmetically changed. It's just a stupid charge that doesn't for any logical reason need to be made. Other clubs, other sports, don't do it. They make it easy for fans to attend. They want fans in the ground. Rover supposedly do, but only on their terms.

[Stuart]

7 hours ago, Biz said:

So the club are conning fans?

Not that I can see.

If the bridge isn’t your thing, how about some snake oil?

[MCMC1875]

14 hours ago, gumboots said:

We're not necessarily talking about Rovers fans though are we. Or at least not committed, diehard ones. We're talking about people who like watching football for whom Rovers is their local club who may become hooked if they can be brought into the ground or people who have been so worn down by events at Ewood over a number of years that the words enjoyable Saturday afternoon and Rovers don't quite go together in their minds anymore. They may have felt marginalised by the club in the past, even if they can see the sense of some of the decisions that annoyed them. They know the team is doing well. They realise that this is a team that works hard for each other, the manager, the fans and the club but somehow they've lost the passion that took them to Ewood whenever they could get there. They've lost the emotional connection and to get that back they need to be encouraged to attend. Anything that gets them there, any idea that's economically feasible and doesn't diminish the value of being a season ticket holder should be considered. 

A friend of mine is looking for a club to follow. He's considering Rovers. This surcharge does not encourage new supporters. Some new supporters become regular supporters. Some regular supporters become season ticket holders.

[blueboy3333]

9 hours ago, Biz said:

it’s a stretch for me to get out my pram because of a charge that I’ll never even pay.

Thatcher's Britain.

[JBiz]

2 hours ago, Stuart said:

Not that I can see.

If the bridge isn’t your thing, how about some snake oil?

 

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

Thatcher's Britain.

Two quotes that show this is a nothing complaint and that the C in BRFCS actually stands for curmudgeon.

 

16 minutes ago, MCMC1875 said:

A friend of mine is looking for a club to follow. He's considering Rovers. This surcharge does not encourage new supporters. Some new supporters become regular supporters. Some regular supporters become season ticket holders.

That’s ridiculous. If your friend is truly looking for a club to follow, I’m quite sure he won’t be specifically put off because of a charge he could avoid completely by ordering his tickets on the phone! 

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Biz said:

Two quotes that show this is a nothing complaint and that the C in BRFCS actually stands for curmudgeon.

Why so precious these days?

[Stuart]

Just now, Biz said:

Two quotes that show this is a nothing complaint and that the C in BRFCS actually stands for curmudgeon.

My mistake. I thought you’d tuned in to my sense of humour over the last few months.

Won’t happen again!

[MCMC1875]

15 minutes ago, Biz said:

That’s ridiculous. If your friend is truly looking for a club to follow, I’m quite sure he won’t be specifically put off because of a charge he could avoid completely by ordering his tickets on the phone! 

I didn't say specifically. The surcharge does not encourage attendance, neither does Cat A/B/C pricing, nor changing kick off times, etc. Individually, these initiatives could be considered insignificant but collectively they could be considered a considerable deterrent.

Edited November 15, 2018 by MCMC1875

[blueboy3333]

So, as far as I can see, the Surchargers have yet to offer an explanation as to why an extra £3 goes on the price of a ticket in the two hours preceding a game, or even a quote from Waggott by way of explanation. 

The Attendance Tax, as most right thinking people must surely agree,  is an affront to common decency. 

It also makes no business sense. 

We need to crowdfund a Business for Beginners course for Waggott. 

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, blueboy3333 said:

Thatcher's Britain.

More the kind of stealth tax associated with Blairs Britain !

Thatcher would've closed football down by now....

[Dreams of 1995]

4 hours ago, Biz said:

 

Two quotes that show this is a nothing complaint and that the C in BRFCS actually stands for curmudgeon.

 

That’s ridiculous. If your friend is truly looking for a club to follow, I’m quite sure he won’t be specifically put off because of a charge he could avoid completely by ordering his tickets on the phone! 

Get yourself to that bloody lake again will you Biz, I've never seen you so stressed 

[JBiz]

2 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Get yourself to that bloody lake again will you Biz, I've never seen you so stressed 

I ain’t the one frothing about a charge 99% will never have to pay Dreams. 

[chaddyrovers]

On 13/11/2018 at 23:20, gumboots said:

You can't believe they complain about the 3 pounds surcharge or the increase in 1875 membership? Not everyone can or does prioritise attending Rovers games so that they don't think about cost in the way you seem to. For every family cash priorities are different and everything that makes it harder for people to attend matches in any way is important, especially when the ground is half empty. The point most people here seem to understand is that getting people back as season ticket holders requires getting them back into a habit. Make that habit harder than it needs to be for them means many will simply stay away. 

I always put my family 1st and make sure we are right for money wise and many other things. I love going to Rovers and walking down Bolton Road every game. 

I would make tickets for Christmas games very cheap. Kids are off school so get them interested. 

 

[gumboots]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I always put my family 1st and make sure we are right for money wise and many other things. I love going to Rovers and walking down Bolton Road every game. 

I would make tickets for Christmas games very cheap. Kids are off school so get them interested. 

 

I wasn't having a go at how you choose to spend your money or what your priorities are. Just saying that others may not be able to make the choices you make. There was a time when I went to every home game, youth games, as many away games as I could fit in. Nowadays I am retired and make different choices as to how I spend my cash and my time. But it would be nice if tickets for kids were cheap over Christmas I agree. 

[chaddyrovers]

37 minutes ago, gumboots said:

I wasn't having a go at how you choose to spend your money or what your priorities are. Just saying that others may not be able to make the choices you make. There was a time when I went to every home game, youth games, as many away games as I could fit in. Nowadays I am retired and make different choices as to how I spend my cash and my time. But it would be nice if tickets for kids were cheap over Christmas I agree. 

I have just got a new job that will allow me to attend more youth games but the main reasons were my current job was having a negative impact at home family wise and the job wasnt suitable any more for me. 

Kids tickets should be a pounds over christmas. Then they spend more in ground like food, drink.and club shop. Normally it at least cost me 10 pounds in shop then a hot dog, crisp and drink when my step daughter comes to some games

[Paul]

On 14/11/2018 at 06:48, Ozz said:

Last weekend Rovers had the lowest attendance in the top two leagues, and as it was FA Cup 1st round day, the lowest league crowd in English league football. 

I know what you're saying Ozz but it's very easy to find such examples and the opposite can also be shown. Just a few weeks ago Rovers had the sixth highest attendance outside the PL in England, possibly the UK I can't quite remember.

I mentioned that on the MB. No one was interested. People are always moaning about the club. The ones who particularly make me smile are those who find a new reason every week, never attend and fail to recognise or admit the truth is they've either lost interest or no longer care. In which case why bother getting upset about something that will never impact their lives?

Many, many aspects of our lives encounter surcharges on tickets and other services. Concerts, cinema, theatre, rail tickets, car parking, parcel delivery, airline seats, baggage. Rovers are far, far from alone in doing this. Ultimately if someone can afford £27/ticket (whatever it is as I've lost track) they can afford £30. Not going because of this charge is an excuse. 

Edited November 16, 2018 by Paul

[Mattyblue]

To be fair Paul there were 7,600 Leeds fans in the ground!

We are at the bottom end of the table for home fans coming through the gates and the club should be worried about it... though there is only one way to solve it and that’s sell more season tickets.

[Paul]

On 14/11/2018 at 09:14, Biz said:

No B.B. I get that people aren’t too happy about paying more in this climate, but I think you’re missing my point; This is also a perfect excuse for the lapsed fans who simply can’t be arsed with Rotherham at home. They’d pay it 3/4 times over if we had United, Liverpool, City etc, and never bat a eyelid. 

If it was price not product, wouldn’t we have seen at least one complaint about Preston charging us 27 quid basic for their game? Reason is- as you are pointing it out - that’s because entertainment wise, local derby with an edge is fair more enjoyable than the latest DC abomination or Star Wars Episode 19.

I am not the marketing department or involved in finance so I cannot explain their decisions, but put it this way - I still think our tickets are correctly and fairly priced. 

If an improving young team on an upwards trend, with a good manager adding quality and class, investing in players, showing team spirit not seen for years, with a 1 defeat in over a year at home - needs to do more to “encourage fans to attend” then I personally think the fans deserve the criticism not the club.

Correct. Rovers are in a better position than for many years and yet people continue to find as many reasons to moan and complain as possible. The real point is huge numbers were never really diehards, they were football fans and supported Rovers. They went often because the kids wanted to go and the club was successful - those people have moved on. I meet them frequently, they always chat about and are interested in Rovers but are more interested in doing other things.

In the 90s and early 00s from 1.30 onwards there was a stream of cars leaving my village for Ewood, around 25-30 people. Today there are 3, me and two of my sons. One family moved away but two, sometimes four, of them still go. Roughly speaking that's a 75% loss never to return.

All of these fans could easily afford a £3/surcharge. They'll never pay it. If they happen to go once a season, when the kids are home for Christmas, the trip will be planned. Surcharges have very little to do with the reasons thousands have stopped attending.

[Paul]

4 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

To be fair Paul there were 7,600 Leeds fans in the ground!

We are at the bottom end of the table for home fans coming through the gates and the club should be worried about it... though there is only one way to solve it and that’s sell more season tickets.

It wasn't the Leeds game. I can't remember which. I'll find it when I have time - could be several days.

Yes more STs is the answer.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Paul

[blueboy3333]

 

6 minutes ago, Paul said:

Many, many aspects of our lives encounter surcharges on tickets and other services. Concerts, cinema, theatre, rail tickets, car parking, parcel delivery, airline seats, baggage. Rovers are far, far from alone in doing this. Ultimately if someone can afford £27/ticket (whatever it is as I've lost track) they can afford £30. Not going because of this charge is an excuse. 

Can you provide a reason the club add a surcharge?  'Airline seats' have them is not a reason. Cinemas don't put the price up two hours before the films start as far as I'm aware and theatres often do the opposite. I'm not even going to consider why you think the rip-off merchants who operate car parks are in any way relevant to a football club, but you may well have just been hoisted by your own petard. 

Also, using the Leeds game, with 35% of the crowd being from Leeds, as a indicator of how well our crowds are holding up and that people are just 'moaners' is frankly bizarre.

The debate is how to get more people in the ground. If you think a surcharge is conducive to that then fair enough. I think it's pointless and counter-productive.  PNE don't do it, and they are of similar status and demographic to us with similar crowds, so why do we? It's an interesting debate, however I'm yet to hear a justification for the surcharge either from the club or from those on here that defend it. 

Maybe @chaddyrovers can explain Waggott's reasoning for the surcharge. Chaddy keeps stating Waggott has provided one and that we should all move on. I'm yet to see a link to it. 

Rather than just call people 'moaners' perhaps you could engage with some of the above points?

[blueboy3333]

13 minutes ago, Paul said:

Correct. Rovers are in a better position than for many years and yet people continue to find as many reasons to moan and complain as possible

And 'people' on here know we are in a better position than in years. There's a Charlie Mulgrew thread with lots of 'positive' comments after he signed his new contract. Have you or Biz posted in there or do you not like good news? See, it's easy to do this pointing the finger thing.

So, back to the debate. It's about attendances and what the club are doing, or rather not doing,  to attract fans back to the club. Just for reference, I'm a ST holder who hates sitting in a more than half empty stadium every other week whilst at the same time the club are putting up prices and imposing silly surcharges. That isn't 'moaning'. If you think it is then you're the problem, not the 'people' trying to discuss it. 

 

[tomphil]

We are on about moving obstacles to encourage last min attenders re the surcharge not aiming that as a reason there's still thousands missing and as non descript to some  the few extra quid is it WILL put a few off, dozens rather than hundreds but we want to encourage not discourage everyone. People from outlying areas probably won't bother too much but Joe Bloggs and his mates who go in the pub at lunchtime in Mill Hill or wherever in two minds just might.

Alongside closing sections of the ground the way they have then the club has probably alienated 2/300 hundred regulars in recent years at a time when it's supposed to be rebuilding, repairing, re-engaging. That's not the way to do things with your hardcore support and neither is penalizing those who might want or can only make late decisions to attend home games however flimsy their last min choices may seem.  Not everyone plans their day to day activities to the last move.

Edited November 16, 2018 by tomphil