Attendances

[Crimpshrine]

22 minutes ago, Paul said:

 

You are right there are many good points here. It is my belief that the issue runs much deeper than a £3 surcharge and it is an excuse for many. If I was a casual fan I don't think I'd pay match day prices at ANY ground. I stopped going away in the PL when the trip to Anfield cost in excess of £100. I simply cannot justify the expenditure - even when I worked though I could afford it. Perceived value and all that.

 

I think you have just made a good point against the surcharge which you seem to have been defending in your previous posts - nobody likes paying them. Everybody has a limit to the amount they are willing to pay and increased costs are a reason some people won't attend - not an excuse. Nobody needs an excuse not to attend - it's a free world.

Maybe £30 is a barrier too far for some people. You say yourself you wouldn't pay it. 

Buying any tickets on the internet seem to incur surcharges these days and EVERYBODY moans about them. People are not just picking on Rovers for doing it. 

It would be great PR if Rovers dropped the surcharge to encourage attendances - simple as that.

[rigger]

Rovers have missed a great opportunity with the Saturday train strikes to start transport runs from outlying areas to Ewood. Once people get used to getting on Rovers transport, it would stick with them, also other people who don't go to the Rovers just may have been tempted.  

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, Paul said:

On the ticket point I think that essential for cash turnstiles. It would be very annoying to regularly arrive and find someone in your seat. All other "entertainment" venues do it so I'm sure Rovers could.

You are right there are many good points here. It is my belief that the issue runs much deeper than a £3 surcharge and it is an excuse for many. If I was a casual fan I don't think I'd pay match day prices at ANY ground. I stopped going away in the PL when the trip to Anfield cost in excess of £100. I simply cannot justify the expenditure - even when I worked though I could afford it. Perceived value and all that.

If I had to shell out £60 every Saturday for me and the lad I doubt we would go. In fact as I live on a pension I couldn't afford it. This is why the ST is such huge value and has to be the key selling point.

If I didn't have an ST offer me a special occasion or great price and I'd go BUT those would only be one offs which are useless to the club. Add to that if I didn't know about it I couldn't go and I suspect the majority who know about special deals are already in the ground.

Why keep using the word excuse? Casual, potential fans who dont need to go or see Rovers as an important priority dont need to justify their lack of attendance. It is up to the club to remove these excuses wherever possible. The club needs to embrace that fact.

Agree with many of your other points though. Especially in terms of lapsed season ticket holders.

[only2garners]

Some information from the Fans Forum meeting which was held on Monday. Bear in mind I'm just the messenger.

Half Season ticket sales have started strongly and the club are still hopeful they will get to their 10,500 target. They need 859 sales so I personally think that will be a tall order.

The Sky red button is a hot topic amongst all Football League clubs and plenty of discussion happening, but no outcomes yet.

On the £3 surcharge this is what Mike Cheston said - MC said that the club wanted fans to buy tickets in advance for two reasons – to reduce congestion at the ticket office immediately before the game and to capture details of fans purchasing tickets for the database so that club offers could be sent to them. i.e. they want to get at as many of those buying match tickets to sell them season tickets. If people turn up at the last minute that information is not collected.

One thing that I was surprised about was that we are averaging 2,000 match tickets a time for home games and 40% of those are sold with the £3 surcharge - that's an average of 800 a game. That's way more than I would have expected. Of course what we don't know is how many more might have come without the £3 surcharge. I suspect it's a relatively small number but still one is too many. We did suggest turning the policy on it's head i.e. advertising tickets at say £30 but with a £3 discount for purchase in advance.

We brought up the coaches idea at the September meeting. Steve Waggott was quite taken with the idea then and he is still planning to do something on this (he wasn't there on Monday having been called to a FL meeting in London at short notice).

The club are currently replacing all the tills in the ground over the international break (95 of them) and the new ones will all have contactless technology. This should be live for the Sheff Weds game on 1/12. It may or may not also be possible to put cash on your ST card to make contactless payments at that game (not clear yet). That will happen in the New Year if not on 1/12 but anyway regular debit and credit cards will work. This should significantly speed up service at the kiosks on match days.

[chaddyrovers]

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

The whole point that people are making is that we need to remove as many potential "excuses," not that people need to justify their attendance. We are season ticket holders but the people this will most affect are people who arent regulars, who do have other things to occupy their time if Rovers isnt an attractive enough proposition to them, therefore the club can either turn their nose up at them or embrace that fact and try its best to bring them back in. 

I appreciate your point about surcharges being in place to allow the club to predict attendances for various reasons but that then implies that if there was a sudden demand on a match day and loads of people decided on the day to try and get a ticket, then that would be a bad thing logistically. In which case the number of fans in the ground clearly isnt THAT important to the club.

The club should do everything it can to get as many people in the ground WHENEVER they decide to attend, even if it is last minute. They then should think of ways to deal with any logistical issues that come with that, ie the contactless season tickets they are bringing in to help with queues for the bars for example. A very good idea.

where the sudden demand coming from? most people have decided to come before the day of the game. 

 

4 hours ago, MCMC1875 said:

Last minute ticket sales will not increase staff costs or food wastage. They will have the opposite effect. More queuing for fans perhaps and food more likely to sell out.

Where, pray tell, are new ST's going to come from? If new ST's come from walk ons, then walk ons need to be encouraged not discouraged.

do you have season ticket?

3 hours ago, arbitro said:

Would you advocate a cash turnstile in each area of the ground?

Whatever anybody's views on the surcharge what I hope we would all agree on is that it is incumbent upon Waggott and his staff to try and entice fans to attend.

By the way Paul what would you do if you were charged with increasing attendances?

I cant remember the last time I used cash at Ewood. Maybe have a turnstile where you can buy tickets from but then why have a ticket office then. Just buy them from ticket office. 

I have mention about having just weekend season ticket for fans, Kids season tickets being a pound, having a family ticket(2 adults and 2 kids) for 42 pounds for games around Christmas. 

1 hour ago, Paul said:

Other than a few years ago at Wigan it's so long since I paid cash I don't have a feeling about it. I do understand it could be important for some and if demand is sufficient let's do it. There is an issue though. I expect to walk in to my seat. I don't want to have to ask cash payers to move. It can be argued those fans would be directed to a specific area but we all know football fans don't necessarily take note of such requests. Perhaps if people are given a ticket that would overcome the potential problem? I don't know.

How would I increase attendance? I would put every possible effort in to STs. This is where the value lays for both club and supporters. It's what approximately £15, there really isn't better value for a ticket at Ewood.

I feel the club is poor at attracting more ST holders and especially lapsed fans. I'm not aware of any attempt to determine why people stop and what would convince them to return. I'd implement a survey of some sort. A very direct one - my previous energy supplier actually rang me to discuss why I switched away and asked me what would  convince me to return. An energy company!!!!! Understand the problem first and then try to address it.

A suggestion was made some time ago of reducing prices each time someone buys a match ticket. The more you attend the less it costs. I thought that was a great idea.

The LT did some research asking non season tickets what would attract them back and why. 

 

3 hours ago, rigger said:

Lay on free transport from outlying areas.

parking around Ewood Park is none existed now. You used to be able to park next to the Fox and Hounds pub for 5 pounds but that's shut down and now is wasting away doing. I current park at the side of the Old Royal Blackburn Hospital where it is free. Where I sit there is some elderly people who are struggling to park close to the ground. I do feel Rovers and council need to put something into place for these types of fans. 

[chaddyrovers]

18 minutes ago, only2garners said:

Some information from the Fans Forum meeting which was held on Monday. Bear in mind I'm just the messenger.

Half Season ticket sales have started strongly and the club are still hopeful they will get to their 10,500 target. They need 859 sales so I personally think that will be a tall order.

The Sky red button is a hot topic amongst all Football League clubs and plenty of discussion happening, but no outcomes yet.

On the £3 surcharge this is what Mike Cheston said - MC said that the club wanted fans to buy tickets in advance for two reasons – to reduce congestion at the ticket office immediately before the game and to capture details of fans purchasing tickets for the database so that club offers could be sent to them. i.e. they want to get at as many of those buying match tickets to sell them season tickets. If people turn up at the last minute that information is not collected.

One thing that I was surprised about was that we are averaging 2,000 match tickets a time for home games and 40% of those are sold with the £3 surcharge - that's an average of 800 a game. That's way more than I would have expected. Of course what we don't know is how many more might have come without the £3 surcharge. I suspect it's a relatively small number but still one is too many. We did suggest turning the policy on it's head i.e. advertising tickets at say £30 but with a £3 discount for purchase in advance.

We brought up the coaches idea at the September meeting. Steve Waggott was quite taken with the idea then and he is still planning to do something on this (he wasn't there on Monday having been called to a FL meeting in London at short notice).

The club are currently replacing all the tills in the ground over the international break (95 of them) and the new ones will all have contactless technology. This should be live for the Sheff Weds game on 1/12. It may or may not also be possible to put cash on your ST card to make contactless payments at that game (not clear yet). That will happen in the New Year if not on 1/12 but anyway regular debit and credit cards will work. This should significantly speed up service at the kiosks on match days.

Thanks for sharing the info. 

I do quite like your idea of charging less for tickets bought in advance. clever idea. 

 

[JHRover]

If for whatever reason you can't get to Ewood until the last minute the ticket only regime becomes more of an issue. If it is cold, wet, miserable, particularly on a midweek fixture, the last thing people want to be doing is standing in queues for 20 minutes to get a ticket, before having to walk to their turnstile and queue up there to get into the ground.

Those 20 minutes could be spent in Blues Bar or the Legends Lounge (if open) keeping warm and dry and having food and drink whilst spending extra money.

Small gains. If people turn up at 2:30pm for a 3pm kick off and have to spend 20 minutes queuing to get a ticket they aren't going to have much chance to spend in the shop or on the concourse before kick off. If they turn up at 2:30pm and can walk up to the turnstile with a £20 note and get in then they'll have more time to do other things.

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

where the sudden demand coming from? most people have decided to come before the day of the game. 

 

parking around Ewood Park is none existed now. You used to be able to park next to the Fox and Hounds pub for 5 pounds but that's shut down and now is wasting away doing. I current park at the side of the Old Royal Blackburn Hospital where it is free. Where I sit there is some elderly people who are struggling to park close to the ground. I do feel Rovers and council need to put something into place for these types of fans. 

Most people isn't every person. Some people, even if its a tiny number, can't or won't decide until the day of the game.

The parking situation is a disgrace and the council are complicit in the shambles. The bus lane system has achieved nothing other than confusion and the ability to dish out fines for those who drive through it, the car parks have been left to go to ruin and are a blight on the area, and of course the council has their own priorities in constructing and maintaining a camp site right in the middle of the car park along with complimentary refuse collection all at taxpayers expense. Meanwhile the council employ traffic wardens to patrol the streets around Ewood searching for victims to fine to make a few quid off the back of Rovers supporters.

Rovers being just about the only decent thing to come out of Blackburn and give it any profile beyond East Lancashire and the council see it as nothing more than an opportunity to cash in.

Those car parks should have been levelled out, fenced off, tarmacked and should be open for all home games. Should we ever get back to the Premier League and the 'big boys' come to town they'll probably change their stance to make some money off it but until then they'll leave it to go to ruin.

[Oldgregg86]

1 hour ago, only2garners said:

On the £3 surcharge this is what Mike Cheston said - MC said that the club wanted fans to buy tickets in advance for two reasons – to reduce congestion at the ticket office immediately before the game and to capture details of fans purchasing tickets for the database so that club offers could be sent to them. i.e. they want to get at as many of those buying match tickets to sell them season tickets. If people turn up at the last minute that information is not collected

Well that's Bs. I turn up and pay the three quid charge regular and they have all my details on file and send me promotional stuff. They always take your postcode and address whether your a new or an old customer.

[Oldgregg86]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Thanks for sharing the info. 

I do quite like your idea of charging less for tickets bought in advance. clever idea. 

 

It's the same outcome worded differently

[only2garners]

Of course some of the 800 buying match tickets are on the database, but clearly many are not.

[only2garners]

3 minutes ago, Oldgregg86 said:

It's the same outcome worded differently

Of course it is, but maybe it might help some.

[Oldgregg86]

3 minutes ago, only2garners said:

Of course it is, but maybe it might help some.

Who. The gullible .

[Mattyblue]

Why can’t someone buying a ticket at 2.30pm be added to the database?

[Stuart]

This thread has turned into a bit of a farce. People defending a £3 surcharge. Talking about it being “cheaper if you buy early”. Gullible is right.

We should be talking about how to increase attendances. I made a reasoned post suggesting an opportunity to do so which has garnered little or no discussion, or counter-suggestion, with people preferring to create strawman arguments and justifications for increasing prices at a time when we have average attendances of 12k - about the lowest in the last  25 years.

[roversfan99]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

where the sudden demand coming from? most people have decided to come before the day of the game. 

 

do you have season ticket?

I cant remember the last time I used cash at Ewood. Maybe have a turnstile where you can buy tickets from but then why have a ticket office then. Just buy them from ticket office. 

I have mention about having just weekend season ticket for fans, Kids season tickets being a pound, having a family ticket(2 adults and 2 kids) for 42 pounds for games around Christmas. 

The LT did some research asking non season tickets what would attract them back and why. 

 

parking around Ewood Park is none existed now. You used to be able to park next to the Fox and Hounds pub for 5 pounds but that's shut down and now is wasting away doing. I current park at the side of the Old Royal Blackburn Hospital where it is free. Where I sit there is some elderly people who are struggling to park close to the ground. I do feel Rovers and council need to put something into place for these types of fans. 

@blueboy3333 has repeatedly asked you for quotes backing up your claim as to Waggotts reasoning to the surcharge, which contrast Chestons reasoning from the fans forum. His reasoning which has correctly been pointed out by @Oldgregg86 as a load of rubbish.

In regards to your initial point, no one has mentioned anything about sudden demand. We are talking about marginal boosts to the attendance. Most may decide before the day of the game but that still leaves some that dont that may be more reluctant to attend with the price increase in place on matchdays.

Your posts have a frustrating inability to look at anyone in any position other than your own, as shown by the fact that you have rubbished a cash turnstile partly because you never buy tickets using cash.

Your desire to get the kids into the ground is again one that would suit you, that said I must say that it seems like a very logical step to improve attendances so fair play.

And Rovers themselves should do research towards why lapsed ST holder have left, the LT article was just a few carefully selected few paragraphs showing a few different reasons, the club needs far more than that.

 

[darrenrover]

27 minutes ago, Stuart said:

This thread has turned into a bit of a farce. People defending a £3 surcharge. Talking about it being “cheaper if you buy early”. Gullible is right.

We should be talking about how to increase attendances. I made a reasoned post suggesting an opportunity to do so which has garnered little or no discussion, or counter-suggestion, with people preferring to create strawman arguments and justifications for increasing prices at a time when we have average attendances of 12k - about the lowest in the last  25 years.

Managing costs is one thing and to be applauded to be fair. I've always believed that managed correctly, a negative can easily be made into a positive. It's a concept that Rovers and football in general, fail to grasp.

There are some good suggestions in the thread though Stuart and the ideas for increasing support should also take on board the harsh reality of the past 8 years and address the issues, attempt to draw a line in the sand and kick on from there. If someone at the club had the gonads to do that, it would potentially put thousands on our home attendances IMO, not dozens.

 

[Proudtobeblue&white]

My gripe is being turfed out of the BE upper without consultation, not wanting to sit in the new family stand as I don't like the position, ditto Riverside, and the JW is too expensive in this league. I will pick and choose the odd game as a result. Waggott has missed tricks. Big time.

BTW, I have never been courted by the club, despite being a supporter for forty years plus, and they have my text/email/mobile number.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Proudtobeblue&white

[darrenrover]

13 minutes ago, Proudtobeblue&white said:

My gripe is being turfed out of the BE upper without consultation, not wanting to sit in the new family stand as I don't like the position, ditto Riverside, and the JW is too expensive in this league. I will pick and choose the odd game as a result. Waggott has missed tricks. Big time.

BTW, I have never been courted by the club, despite being a supporter for forty years plus, and they have my text/email/mobile number.

Precisely the point I've been trying to make PtbB&W. If all upstairs had been consulted, potentially compensated in some way and thanked (made to feel valued) rather than just being turfed out, I'm sure you and many others would think differently.

[AshleyClifford]

I keep reading attendances are at an all time low, or comments similar. They are not, I have said before and I’ll say it again. This season will be our highest average since relaxation from the premier league. However football attendances generally are on the rise and rovers figures are still disappointing. 2016/17 season we had addendances around 10k on a regular basis in fact on one occasion dropped below 10k.

i have attended many Rovers premie league games where the crowd was less than 20,000 ( less than 16k as well) I’m not sure the desire to attend is always that great.

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

Why can’t someone buying a ticket at 2.30pm be added to the database?

In order to be quicker I think they just serve you the tickets rather than asking for your name, postcode etc.

[DeeCee]

I get letters through the post "urging me to snap up tickets" on the strength of me buying online a couple of times when Im "Home" I'm in Cornwall ffs, who oversees this "marketing plan"?

Sorry for overuse of "

[JBiz]

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

This thread has turned into a bit of a farce. People defending a £3 surcharge. Talking about it being “cheaper if you buy early”. Gullible is right.

We should be talking about how to increase attendances. I made a reasoned post suggesting an opportunity to do so which has garnered little or no discussion, or counter-suggestion, with people preferring to create strawman arguments and justifications for increasing prices at a time when we have average attendances of 12k - about the lowest in the last  25 years.

Stuart, Stuart, Stuart... the only farce is people are seemingly ignorant to why those lapsed fans are not interested in coming back!

Its not a potential cost... it’s like gumboots said, years of the club being run like a joke. Yes, the 3 quid stuff is a bit of pain in the ass but it’s definitely being trotted out as an excuse when the reality many of those not currently attending are hurt by the “Danny murphy years”..

You ask for 40 quid a ticket for premier league games, you’ll see an increase. I agree we need creative ways to engorge regular numbers in the championship, but eliminating a 1pm-3pm charge is not the answer.

 

[Mattyblue]

34 minutes ago, tomphil said:

In order to be quicker I think they just serve you the tickets rather than asking for your name, postcode etc.

I can imagine that’s the reason, but still surprised by it. Potential repeat customer, future season ticket holder etc etc...

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, darrenrover said:

Precisely the point I've been trying to make PtbB&W. If all upstairs had been consulted, potentially compensated in some way and thanked (made to feel valued) rather than just being turfed out, I'm sure you and many others would think differently.

The fact that it happened in 2 seperate areas of the ground is an even bigger scandal.

18 minutes ago, Biz said:

Stuart, Stuart, Stuart... the only farce is people are seemingly ignorant to why those lapsed fans are not interested in coming back!

Its not a potential cost... it’s like gumboots said, years of the club being run like a joke. Yes, the 3 quid stuff is a bit of pain in the ass but it’s definitely being trotted out as an excuse when the reality many of those not currently attending are hurt by the “Danny murphy years”..

You ask for 40 quid a ticket for premier league games, you’ll see an increase. I agree we need creative ways to engorge regular numbers in the championship, but eliminating a 1pm-3pm charge is not the answer.

 

I dont understand why you are looking down your nose at those who are "trotting out excuses." The club needs to remove these "excuses" wherever possible because they surely realise that the fans they are targetting are not the hard core regulars, but that doesnt mean we should look down our noses at them as if they are expendable. 

Its not going to cause a sudden hike in attendances, no one has claimed that but all of these different things only have the potential to cause marginal increases. If removing any excuses could cause even the most modest of potential attendance increases then it shouldnt be dismissed.

[JBiz]

12 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

The fact that it happened in 2 seperate areas of the ground is an even bigger scandal.

I dont understand why you are looking down your nose at those who are "trotting out excuses." The club needs to remove these "excuses" wherever possible because they surely realise that the fans they are targetting are not the hard core regulars, but that doesnt mean we should look down our noses at them as if they are expendable. 

Its not going to cause a sudden hike in attendances, no one has claimed that but all of these different things only have the potential to cause marginal increases. If removing any excuses could cause even the most modest of potential attendance increases then it shouldnt be dismissed.

RF - football clubs in 2018 compete by revenue. If you’re lucky enough to be owned by billionaires with their fingers on the pulse, you’ll probably be successful.

If you’re relying on a more moderate platform for some success- you need the locals to regular boost those coffers.

 I accept that others don’t see this as “their club” the same way as I do, but I simply won’t accept that the pricing is in anyway a barrier. 

The barrier is level of opposition and interest in division two. Pricing is an irrelevant part of it and this surcharge is the perfect excuse for those who simply cannot be arsed to support their club.

Until we are promoted, those missing thousand will not return. That is unless we have an attractive fixture in the cup.

The irony has never changed- if we had those fair weather fans regularly, we’d be in a much better position to invest in the team. The funny thing this summer, despite millions of debt - we’ve added more quality and invested...

If that can’t encourage those fans on the fence, a reduction of the 1pm-3pm cost is absolutely negligible.