Attendances

[AshleyClifford]

the club needs to maximise revenue. currently matchday revenue is around 5M. we need this to increase. seaso  tickets are cheap enough. Gate receipts, tv, sponsors all add up. we should not be wholely reliant on the venkies. i honestly dont think 200 season tickets would improve atmosphere, many people still would not attend all matches. 

[AshleyClifford]

3 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

10k ST holders at an average of £350 is £3.5m

15k ST holders at an average of £200 is £3m

Add in the extra revenue from food/drinks/merch those extra 5k fans bring and the difference would be negligible. 

you did not factor in concessions for juniors or seniors. also can we guarantee 5000 increase in home attendance. do these extra people already buy match by match already. in any case 15000 is hardly rocking is it ?

[blueboy3333]

1 minute ago, AshleyClifford said:

the club needs to maximise revenue. currently matchday revenue is around 5M. we need this to increase. seaso  tickets are cheap enough. Gate receipts, tv, sponsors all add up. we should not be wholely reliant on the venkies. i honestly dont think 200 season tickets would improve atmosphere, many people still would not attend all matches. 

You don't think an extra 5k people would improve the atmosphere? 

[Stuart]

Just now, AshleyClifford said:

you did not factor in concessions for juniors or seniors. also can we guarantee 5000 increase in home attendance. do these extra people already buy match by match already. in any case 15000 is hardly rocking is it ?

It’s the principle. Greater revenue through high volume even at lower margin as opposed to keeping volume low by maximising margin.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, AshleyClifford said:

you did not factor in concessions for juniors or seniors. also can we guarantee 5000 increase in home attendance. do these extra people already buy match by match already. in any case 15000 is hardly rocking is it ?

I just did an average ST price. Everything is factored in. 

15k is more 'rocking' than 10k. An extra 5k would mean a full lower tier of the BBE and a full Riverside for as start. 

[Mattyblue]

Players are now talking about crowd numbers. Obviously part of the club's messaging at the moment. 

Rovers form on home turf in particular has been excellent throughout Tony Mowbray's reign as manager, and with the rest of the season promising to be an exciting one, Bennett wants as many supporters on board to enjoy the ride.

 

“I think back to last season when we played Oxford at home and it was an absolutely amazing atmosphere," he added.

 

“If we can get a few more people back then that would be brilliant. But the ones that do turn up really back us to the hilt and they can see what we’re trying.

 

https://www.rovers.co.uk/news/2019/january/get-right-behind-us-urges-bennett/

[Stuart]

So we can’t bring up the Oxford game numbers because it was a complete one-off but players can?!

[Rover_Shaun]

In the real world you can Stuart

Edited January 30, 2019 by Rover_Shaun

[Mattyblue]

You make Bristol City a tenner next Saturday (or any other game that isn’t a promotion party or pivotal end of season game) and there won’t be anywhere near 27,000 there. But there would be a decent increase, especially when the team is on an upswing like at the moment. Surely those extra folk can help roar us on into the top 6? 

So it was a unique set of circumstances that day. However, that doesn’t mean it should be Oxford and then nothing at all the season after. 

18,000 empty seats every week...

[Proudtobeblue&white]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

You make Bristol City a tenner next Saturday (or any other game that isn’t a promotion party or pivotal end of season game) and there won’t be anywhere near 27,000 there. But there would be a decent increase, especially when the team is on an upswing like at the moment. Surely those extra folk can help roar us on into the top 6? 

So it was a unique set of circumstances that day. However, that doesn’t mean it should be Oxford and then nothing at all the season after. 

18,000 empty seats every week...

I am on here regularly. Without going into detail, I have very specific constraints on my expenditure. I can't afford a ST for me and my 18 year old. The odd £10 game would attract me, as did the Norwich game, which I attended. I'm with you, Stuart, Gumboots, et al.......imagination and creativity is needed. Blackburn is far from a rich town. Of the seven of us that went regularly pre - Loons, none now attend. I am the only  one who would go regularly if I could. The empty seats are down to a certain absent silent family and a strange policy by Waggott.

Edited January 30, 2019 by Proudtobeblue&white

[tomphil]

If it only put a thousand home fans on the gate it's a start we need to be aiming for 13/14 regulars like a few years ago and forget fantasy figures of 20k or the Oxford game its rarely happened regularly at Ewood in this league until maybe the last few months of a valid promotion push.

Every little bit counts and if an extra thousand come at a tenner and see a good game and maybe a new face or two a good few will come back the next match at full price, more if it's cheap again. Tap into every bit of positivity you can when you can we are after the team being rebuilt bit by bit, the club as a whole so that applies to the fanbase as well, small steps but steps in the right direction.

Rovers are always better when they are a lean mean fighting machine on and off the pitch rather than a bloated overhyped overspending mess. Let's get those few thousand lapsed fans who got sick of the miss management of the club and nonsense like Coyle back first.

[AshleyClifford]

Everyone certainly makes a valid point on  this matter.. I believe we have to get the season ticket cost right. Majority of the ground is £350 or less which I think is fine. £300 is the lowest I think we should charge. Match day tickets need to be in line with this to make season tickets good value. 

If season tickets were reduced too much we would have a situation where loads would be sold but games would still be poorly attended. For example mr smith who currently goes to 10 games per year now buys a season ticket because it’s better value but still shows up 10 times per year. Essentially I think increasing season ticket sales can only come at the detriment of match day walk ons and further loss of revenue.

im a season tick holder who already only attends about half league home games at the most..

Edited January 30, 2019 by AshleyClifford

[Paul]

On 29/01/2019 at 20:32, blueboy3333 said:

10k ST holders at an average of £350 is £3.5m

15k ST holders at an average of £200 is £3m

Add in the extra revenue from food/drinks/merch those extra 5k fans bring and the difference would be negligible. 

But you have absolutely no evidence to support your argument that this would be the result.

The additional revenue you talk of is a pitiful amount. I've no idea of today's fugures but John Williams used to quote a figure of £1.13. That has always stuck in my mind.

[47er]

18 minutes ago, Paul said:

But you have absolutely no evidence to support your argument that this would be the result.

The additional revenue you talk of is a pitiful amount. I've no idea of today's fugures but John Williams used to quote a figure of £1.13. That has always stuck in my mind.

Well, its been done before----is that not evidence? Would we have got 27000 for the last game  of last season without a price cut?

[Paul]

On 29/01/2019 at 18:32, AAK said:

After a few years of not going much, apart from freebies and cheap ticket games, the £25-£30 tickets suddenly seem just an outrageous amount of money to spend on a mid-table championship/league 1 game. Back when some of us didn't have season tickets at times, we would still get to as many as we can and didn't think anything of the £20-25 at the time prices, but now we know what else that money can go on, we think twice about it, I mean £25 mean price, plus £5er on food, £20 on beers, £5er on the bus you're at £55 as a minimum. This is why they need to do so much more with their season tickets, people don't think much about a £25 a month or whatever it is direct debit, doesn't feel as much a pinch on the pockets.
 

To use your example it's"£25 ticket plus bus fare £5 making a total of £30" to get to the game but your then adding a minimum of "£25 for food and beer," which are far from essential to watch a game. I'm not sure how much a full ST costs and can't find it on Rovers website but a half ST start in the BBE is £199 for, I think, 11 matches - £18/game plus your bus fair of £5 making a total of £23. For less than the amount you say needs to be spent on food and beer its possible to buy a season ticket and travel to the game.

The cost per game at Ewood is cheap. Any other money a supporter chooses to spend on the day is their choice and nothing to do with the club.

Edited January 31, 2019 by Paul

[Paul]

On 29/01/2019 at 18:37, magicalmortensleftpeg said:

A £199 season ticket is less than £10 a game. How are we meant to compete financially against other teams with that?  You understand that we do need to act as a business sometimes as well? If you want a decent product on the pitch then at some stage we need to pay for it. It’s probably £10 a game in the national league if you’d rather we play there..?

Therein lays the problem in any discussion about ST and matchday prices, too many people think they know how to run a football club while failing to take account of the fact we have lost +/- 10,000 fans for a very wide range of reasons. The catalyst for this loss is/was Venkys but the reasons are far wider. Do people seriously think Waggot and the management sit down and have a discussion about how best to "fleece" or "milk" the support? Of course not. They will though have a serious discussion about the prices which can be charged to maximise the income while increasing sales. Mattyblue states ST sales have increased by 25% over last year which proves the point.

I spent over 40 years in sales and if I learnt one thing it is never reduce price in the expectation of increased long-term (note long-term) as the result is always customer retention at a lower price than could have been achieved. It simply does not work financially.

[Paul]

16 minutes ago, 47er said:

Well, its been done before----is that not evidence? Would we have got 27000 for the last game  of last season without a price cut?

There's  no arguing +/- 15,000 extra turned up for £10. Where though is the evidence those supporters would pay £230 for an ST? There is none. It's said earlier this game shouldn't be used as an example, I'm not sure why not. It only took one look at the DE and the people flooding on to the pitch to realise the makeup of that crowd was not 15,000 potential ST holders - it was people there for a party which is great.

Again it's said we've increased sales by 25% so perhaps 2,000 of the Oxford crowd did sign up for this year. If they did it represents +/- 13% of those fans. Not bad.

Edited January 31, 2019 by Paul

[Mattyblue]

Sales have risen, but only to the level we were at before the appointment of Coyle, as that summer saw the largest number of non renewals since relegation from the PL.

So just a reversion to the mean, perhaps

[blueboy3333]

1 hour ago, Paul said:

But you have absolutely no evidence to support your argument that this would be the result.

The additional revenue you talk of is a pitiful amount. I've no idea of today's fugures but John Williams used to quote a figure of £1.13. That has always stuck in my mind.

It's happened before. Slashed prices and dramatically increased ST holders. It was the man quoted in your post that did it. As for the £1.13 where's your evidence? 

[Paul]

38 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

It's happened before. Slashed prices and dramatically increased ST holders. It was the man quoted in your post that did it. As for the £1.13 where's your evidence? 

I don't have a recording but in a meeting with JW he stated match day sales were £1.13. It may not have been precisely this amount, though I believe it was, and it was certainly below £2. You only have to go on the concourse at halftime to see how few people are spending. Myself, we have two STs, I spend less than £20 per season, possibly £10. All I ever buy is a coffee on the odd ocassiona I'm bored to death by the game.

Taking back Ewood was what 15-20 years ago?? You ignore all the other factors involved with our decline in crowds. The campaign took place when the general mood around Ewood was positive, the economy was different, people had faith in Williams, the club etc. no one had heard of Venkys etc. There had been no turmoil. Alongside this sits all the reasons I've already sighted.

Taking back Ewood was a different time, a different place and has little relevance today.

Edited January 31, 2019 by Paul

[blueboy3333]

4 minutes ago, Paul said:

I don't have a recording but in a meeting with JW he stated match day sales were £1.13. It may not have been precisely this amount, though I believe it was, and it was certainly below £2. You only have to go on the concourse at halftime to see how few people are spending. Myself, we have two STs, I spend less than £20 per season, possibly £10. All I ever buy is a coffee on the odd ocassiona I'm bored to death by the game.

Taking back Ewood was what 15-20 years ago?? You ignore all the other factors involved with our decline in crowds. The campaign took place when the general mood around Ewood was positive, the economy was different, people had faith in Williams, the club etc. no one had heard of Venkys etc. There had been no turmoil. Alongside this sits all the reasons I've already sighted.

Taking back Ewood was a different time, a different place and has little relevance today.

You seem only to find relevance in things that back up your own argument. So we can't go off what happened 15 years ago (ST's) but we can go off what happened 15 years ago (match day food sales)? Funny that

 Slash prices, increase sales. 'Sales for beginners' is that stuff. 

 

Edited January 31, 2019 by blueboy3333

[tomphil]

Didn't JW say the total take from tickets at Ewood was about £13 per head in the days of decent Prem crowds ?

Anyway it's all about the timing in regards to cutting ST prices, doing it as a desperate measure doesn't have much effect but doing it when the team/club is going through a purple patch will have good results, league you are in contribution massively obviously.

There's plenty evidence on both sides of the coin in the recent past c10 years ago under Big Sam with a massive positive effect and a good team under a good manager and a marquee summer signing, economy still buoyant yet crowds flopped because of a significant hike in prices all at once when Hughes was here.

 

[Paul]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

Sales have risen, but only to the level we were at before the appointment of Coyle, as that summer saw the largest number of non renewals since relegation from the PL.

So just a reversion to the mean, perhaps

Which pretty much backs up my view the way to increase ST sales is success on the pitch. Coyle left February 2017 and Mowbray arrived. No opportunity at that point to increase sales or at the end of a season when we were relegated.

Season 2017/18 brings promotion on the back of our first successful season in eight years. ST sales increase by 20%

[Paul]

1 minute ago, tomphil said:

Didn't JW say the total take from tickets at Ewood was about £13 per head in the days of decent Prem crowds ?

Anyway it's all about the timing in regards to cutting ST prices, doing it as a desperate measure doesn't have much effect but doing it when the team/club is going through a purple patch will have good results, league you are in contribution massively obviously.

There's plenty evidence on both sides of the coin in the recent past c10 years ago under Big Sam with a massive positive effect and a good team under a good manager and a marquee summer signing, economy still buoyant yet crowds flopped because of a significant hike in prices all at once when Hughes was here.

 

It could have been £13 per head I suppose. I take it that was per season? Whatever the figure it was astonishingly low.

[Paul]

14 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

You seem only to find relevance in things that back up your own argument. So we can't go off what happened 15 years ago (ST's) but we can go off what happened 15 years ago (match day food sales)? Funny that

 Slash prices, increase sales. 'Sales for beginners' is that stuff. 

 

That's not the case I have provided a multitude of reasons why people have not returned to Ewood. None of which you've discussed.

Slashing prices only increases sales in the short-term, you only have to read the commentary of the impact of Black Friday on retail sales to find an example.

Significantly lower prices has a number of consequences in the longer-term. The most damaging being it devalues the product and establishes a low price the customer views as the norm. Future effort to increase price is then undermined as evidenced by hundreds of posts on here.

Slashing prices to increase sales is beginners stuff and then one learns through experience.

Edited January 31, 2019 by Paul