Attendances

[tomphil]

6 minutes ago, Paul said:

It could have been £13 per head I suppose. I take it that was per season? Whatever the figure it was astonishingly low.

Yes it was the overall average take per head on average crowds of above 20 thousand and I think ST may have been similar prices to now, probably walk ons as well seeing as it was the Prem.

Such a hard fanbase to call though at Rovers as I mentioned above when the economy was good mid 00's and we had a good PREM  team they hiked the prices quite a bit, almost 100 quid up combined for me and the then GF and crowds went down quite a bit.  It's all about the Prem though for a lot of our locals so maybe the old Premier league or even play off pledge is the way to go again.

[blueboy3333]

19 minutes ago, Paul said:

Which pretty much backs up my view the way to increase ST sales is success on the pitch. Coyle left February 2017 and Mowbray arrived. No opportunity at that point to increase sales or at the end of a season when we were relegated.

Season 2017/18 brings promotion on the back of our first successful season in eight years. ST sales increase by 20%

So if your measure of success is promotion and ST sales only returned to the level of 2 years previously how are we going to increase sales without promotion? Are sales going to increase by 20% on the back of an mid table Championship finish? 

[blueboy3333]

10 minutes ago, Paul said:

That's not the case I have provided a multitude of reasons why people have not returned to Ewood. None of which you've discussed.

Slashing prices only increases sales in the short-term, you only have to read the commentary of the impact of Black Friday on retail sales to find an example.

Significantly lower prices has a number of consequences in the longer-term. The most damaging being it devalues the product and establishes a low price the customer views as the norm. Future effort to increase price is then undermined as evidenced by hundreds of posts on here.

Slashing prices to increase sales is beginners stuff and then one learns through experience.

Comparisons Between Black Friday and a reduction in ST prices at a football club. Deary me.

A reduction in ST prices doesn't devalue the product it just attracts more fans. Unless JW devalued the product when he increased gates doing the same thing? 

[JBiz]

49 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Comparisons Between Black Friday and a reduction in ST prices at a football club. Deary me.

A reduction in ST prices doesn't devalue the product it just attracts more fans. Unless JW devalued the product when he increased gates doing the same thing? 

Without Prem revenue, reductions in season and walk on tickets might attract more fans but it certainly won’t improve turnover.

Im not saying that there is no better options to the current schemes either. It’s just not as simple as you say. The wage boom in the championship + 9 years of stagnant public wages and austerity from the government  play into this.

 

[only2garners]

I think Paul and Tomphil are talking at cross purposes. I assume Paul is talking about sales of food, drink, programmes etc on matchdays and Tomphil about the average revenue per person on ticket sales.

I certainly remember John Williams saying the average ticket price sold was about £13 in the days when a full price ticket was around £20 or a bit more. I doubt that calculation has changed much since then. So 10,000 STs will be generating nearer £2m than £3.5m. I have joined the OAPs on cheaper season tickets this season and a quick look round the JW Upper will show I'm far from alone.

[JC4LAB]

Dont like  the match day add on £ 3 if you buy your ticket on the day..get rid of this ....Reckon its a crowd reducer.. 

[tomphil]

2 hours ago, only2garners said:

I think Paul and Tomphil are talking at cross purposes. I assume Paul is talking about sales of food, drink, programmes etc on matchdays and Tomphil about the average revenue per person on ticket sales.

I certainly remember John Williams saying the average ticket price sold was about £13 in the days when a full price ticket was around £20 or a bit more. I doubt that calculation has changed much since then. So 10,000 STs will be generating nearer £2m than £3.5m. I have joined the OAPs on cheaper season tickets this season and a quick look round the JW Upper will show I'm far from alone.

Yes I definitely remember the £13 figure although can't remember which manager era but think it was based on per seat and at a guess  in relation to ave Prem crowds of about 22k weighed against 31000 seats and ticket prices and STs not a great deal different in price than today probably. 

[only2garners]

I can remember being at the Fans Forum when John said it, although I can't remember exactly when it was. It wasn't averaged out over the attendance v capacity. It was simply the average money the club got from its mix of adult, kid and senior tickets. So anyone who just multiplies the number of STs sold by the adult price is overestimating the take by almost 50%.

Of course, it doesn't negate the general point about if the price was reduced we might make more if we increased sales by 50%, but the actual sum would be a lot lower.

A reminder about Steve Waggott's comment at the Forum on 7th January: -

There would be some 6 and 4 game packages on offer during the remainder of the season and a one-off discounted game.

[Stuart]

6 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

Comparisons Between Black Friday and a reduction in ST prices at a football club. Deary me.

A reduction in ST prices doesn't devalue the product it just attracts more fans. Unless JW devalued the product when he increased gates doing the same thing? 

Agreed. Lowering season ticket prices doesn’t devalue the product. If anything it increases the ‘value’ of the product.

What it decreases is margin.

Low margin sales can bring in as much as high volume sales depending on volume.

If we were to get the same amount of revenue from lower ticket prices it would mean a more greatly packed Ewood Park. That’s a good thing in my view.

Now, what the bean counters need to work out is what volume change needs to happen to make the same amount of revenue on tickets. Crack that and get the feel good factor back - the one that the club championed last season and that Elliott Bennett extolled this week - and the ancillary sales (shirts, merchandise, concessions) will increase by default.

But are ‘bums on seats’ - and the effort that goes into that - part of the agenda of the current senior management team at Rovers? On the evidence so far (lack of good offers, increased ST prices after relegation and promotion, and matchday surcharges) it would suggest not.

[AAK]

12 hours ago, Paul said:

To use your example it's"£25 ticket plus bus fare £5 making a total of £30" to get to the game but your then adding a minimum of "£25 for food and beer," which are far from essential to watch a game. I'm not sure how much a full ST costs and can't find it on Rovers website but a half ST start in the BBE is £199 for, I think, 11 matches - £18/game plus your bus fair of £5 making a total of £23. For less than the amount you say needs to be spent on food and beer its possible to buy a season ticket and travel to the game.

The cost per game at Ewood is cheap. Any other money a supporter chooses to spend on the day is their choice and nothing to do with the club.

But that extra spence is a reality, whether the club or you like it or not. Most people do factor that in.

[AAK]

12 hours ago, Paul said:

Therein lays the problem in any discussion about ST and matchday prices, too many people think they know how to run a football club while failing to take account of the fact we have lost +/- 10,000 fans for a very wide range of reasons. The catalyst for this loss is/was Venkys but the reasons are far wider. Do people seriously think Waggot and the management sit down and have a discussion about how best to "fleece" or "milk" the support? Of course not. They will though have a serious discussion about the prices which can be charged to maximise the income while increasing sales. Mattyblue states ST sales have increased by 25% over last year which proves the point.

I spent over 40 years in sales and if I learnt one thing it is never reduce price in the expectation of increased long-term (note long-term) as the result is always customer retention at a lower price than could have been achieved. It simply does not work financially.

But you didn't work sales when it comes to football fans did you. There are 3 massive examples of it working which have already been mentioned, Huddersfield, Bradford and forest, nearly 50% increase in attendances when charging way lower than they have before. Yes I accept it might not be what happens at rovers, but it was would certainly add a few thousand on. Who then might keep coming back, short term loss for long term gain.

Edited January 31, 2019 by AAK

[Mattyblue]

18,000 Dingles at t’Turf yesterday, that’s for the Premier League and on the back of their best season for 45 years.

Goes to show our current 12,000 or so home fans we attract after the decade we’ve had and for a current mid table Championship side isn’t terrible for a club with our demographics. It is just magnified by the size of Ewood.

We need to start by pushing that 12k up to say 14k and on it goes. 

Big summer ahead.

Edited February 3, 2019 by Mattyblue

[Stuart]

35 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

18,000 Dingles at t’Turf yesterday, that’s for the Premier League and on the back of their best season for 45 years.

Goes to show our current 12,000 or so home fans we attract after the decade we’ve had and for a current mid table Championship side isn’t terrible for a club with our demographics. It is just magnified by the size of Ewood.

We need to start by pushing that 12k up to say 14k and on it goes. 

Big summer ahead.

There is no demand from the fans for the club to try anything different to attract fans back.

Every idea is poo-poohed, excuses made and the proper-fans-don’t-need-deals mentality sets in.

So it has become a moot point. We simply sit and wait for Mowbray to decide when it’s time to spend some of the cash supposedly burning a hole in his tracksuit, potentially change the wage structure and get promoted, while Burnley get relegated and we pick up the 8,000 floaters that they have picked up.

Or, as you imply, we could look at putting on a few choice match day offers and lowering season ticket prices.

Or we could just get used to having 10-12k home fans and start looking at more stand/area closures.

[tomphil]

3 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

18,000 Dingles at t’Turf yesterday, that’s for the Premier League and on the back of their best season for 45 years.

Goes to show our current 12,000 or so home fans we attract after the decade we’ve had and for a current mid table Championship side isn’t terrible for a club with our demographics. It is just magnified by the size of Ewood.

We need to start by pushing that 12k up to say 14k and on it goes. 

Big summer ahead.

But Burnley always said they'd sell out a ground like Ewood every week if they were a regular Prem club like we used to be .............?

Like every other wind and piss myth give it enough time and it'll be blown out the water, i'd love to meet some of that lot I used to come across years ago now.

[MarkBRFC]

Middlesbrough game now confirmed for Sunday 17th Feb  live on Sky at 1pm after they were knocked out of the FA Cup last night, a perfect opportunity for a ticket offer you would have thought?

No doubt we'll announce category A prices later this morning

[JHRover]

20 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

Middlesbrough game now confirmed for Sunday 17th Feb  live on Sky at 1pm after they were knocked out of the FA Cup last night, a perfect opportunity for a ticket offer you would have thought?

No doubt we'll announce category A prices later this morning

No chance. Middlesbrough have traditionally turned up at Ewood in large numbers as it is one of the closest away days for them, and given they are well in the top 6 Waggott will be expecting another big following. I don't think they are on those lines these days as the novelty of being promotion chasers has worn off a bit and Pulis football grinds them down. Think they turned up with less than 1,000 at PNE for a midweek game earlier this season. Probably get 2-3000 for a Sunday at Ewood so that will be Category A pricing, followed by the pre-match plea from Mowbray or a senior player to back the boys and turn up in your numbers.

On the subject it's another home league game not taking place at the traditional time and also available on tv. as a result. Off the top of my head that's going to be Boro, Leeds, PNE, Swansea, Derby, Wigan, Reading, Sheff Utd, Aston Villa possibly, as home games that haven't been Saturday 3pm kick offs.

[tomphil]

Yes they'll certainly go for Cat A with this thinking Boro will bring 2k plus but I wouldn't be so sure they're a funny lot to call a bit like us.  Last odd k'o tv game I remember against them was when scumbag was in charge here and Mowbray In charge of them on a Fri evening, they brought 690.... anything could happen but i'd expect about 1.5 from Boro but you never know.

Can't say i'd blame Rovers for no ticket initiative in games like this as the impact would be minimal and more a case of tempting regulars who might otherwise watch at home than re-engaging the masses.

Said it many times before that you need attractive fixtures at traditional kick off times to do that or big local derbies.

[arbitro]

16 minutes ago, JHRover said:

No chance. Middlesbrough have traditionally turned up at Ewood in large numbers as it is one of the closest away days for them, and given they are well in the top 6 Waggott will be expecting another big following. I don't think they are on those lines these days as the novelty of being promotion chasers has worn off a bit and Pulis football grinds them down. Think they turned up with less than 1,000 at PNE for a midweek game earlier this season. Probably get 2-3000 for a Sunday at Ewood so that will be Category A pricing, followed by the pre-match plea from Mowbray or a senior player to back the boys and turn up in your numbers.

On the subject it's another home league game not taking place at the traditional time and also available on tv. as a result. Off the top of my head that's going to be Boro, Leeds, PNE, Swansea, Derby, Wigan, Reading, Sheff Utd, Aston Villa possibly, as home games that haven't been Saturday 3pm kick offs.

I have friends in Middlesbrough and there is lots of disenchantment towards Pulis and his methods. If they go on a run between now and the game they will have a decent following but poor results could result in around 1500 travelling especially when you factor in TV. And you could apply the same rationale to the floating Rovers fans but the one thing which may well persuade these to come is a decent ticket price.

[chaddyrovers]

4 hours ago, MarkBRFC said:

Middlesbrough game now confirmed for Sunday 17th Feb  live on Sky at 1pm after they were knocked out of the FA Cup last night, a perfect opportunity for a ticket offer you would have thought?

No doubt we'll announce category A prices later this morning

Not sure it a game that will exciting game. Boro are very boring team to watch. Boro fans at home are on the back of the team pretty quick. 

3 hours ago, JHRover said:

No chance. Middlesbrough have traditionally turned up at Ewood in large numbers as it is one of the closest away days for them, and given they are well in the top 6 Waggott will be expecting another big following. I don't think they are on those lines these days as the novelty of being promotion chasers has worn off a bit and Pulis football grinds them down. Think they turned up with less than 1,000 at PNE for a midweek game earlier this season. Probably get 2-3000 for a Sunday at Ewood so that will be Category A pricing, followed by the pre-match plea from Mowbray or a senior player to back the boys and turn up in your numbers.

On the subject it's another home league game not taking place at the traditional time and also available on tv. as a result. Off the top of my head that's going to be Boro, Leeds, PNE, Swansea, Derby, Wigan, Reading, Sheff Utd, Aston Villa possibly, as home games that haven't been Saturday 3pm kick offs.

I cant see many Boro fans turning up with Pulis as manager and tactics, game on a Sunday and on TV. 

[chaddyrovers]

The Boro away tickets prices for Ewood Park are  as follows:

Adult: £24.00

Over-65: £17.00

18-21: £11.00

Under-18: £7.00

Under-12: £5.00

Initial allocation of 2,000 tickets. 

[Mattyblue]

Category B then.

Bit of pricing sanity from the club for once.

[Mattyblue]

Boro is ‘bring a mate for a £10’. Alas, these kind of deals don’t usually work. Especially for a TV game. We did it for Bury last season and the uptake was minimal.

Better than nowt, I suppose and obviously the club will now flag this up at the next Fans Forum with as  ‘look we did an offer and it wasn’t a success’.  Yes, but with strings attached.

Also, a £10 for 1875 members, though not sure how many of those we have left?

[tomphil]

Good effort at least it's something along with the cat B pricing I hope it gets a few more in, a win or two first would be a nice incentive.

[only2garners]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

Boro is ‘bring a mate for a £10’. Alas, these kind of deals don’t usually work. Especially for a TV game. We did it for Bury last season and the uptake was minimal.

Better than nowt, I suppose and obviously the club will now flag this up at the next Fans Forum with as  ‘look we did an offer and it wasn’t a success’.  Yes, but with strings attached.

Also, a £10 for 1875 members, though not sure how many of those we have left?

I don't know how many 1875 Club members there are but it seems to me a decent deal if you want to come to this game and maybe a few others before the end of the season. If you join for £15 the ticket for Boro will be £25 with £5 back in the club shop and then £3 discounts thereafter.

I took out membership as a ST holder for £10 and have had my money back with a few tickets for my son when he can make it and will save a bit more in the rest of the season. Hardly a fortune but still definitely a saving.

I'm still expecting a multi-game offer as indicated at the last Fans Forum - looks likely now that it will include the home games with PNE and Wigan, allowing discounts for home fans whilst charging top prices for away fans.

[jim mk2]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I cant see many Boro fans turning up with Pulis as manager and tactics, game on a Sunday and on TV. 

Just because you don't like Pulis and his teams doesn't mean Boro fans won't turn up in numbers to cheer on their promotion chasing team

Last time I looked Boro were in the top 6; Rovers playing "nice" football are not.