Nicky Marker and Ben Thornley

[arbitro]

5 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

A pal of mine used to play in the old Northern Premier League. He had his cheek bone smashed by a bloke who was well known in the League as a real thug. He was one of the first players , if not the first, to take an opponent to court for deliberately injuring another player. He was a part time pro and worked as a joiner. He won his case for compensation for the time he was unable to work.

The well known player wouldn't be Johnny King of Altrincham would it Tyrone?

[McClarky]

On 12/10/2018 at 23:39, oldjamfan1 said:

I was there that day. I was angry about Ardiles getting injured but it never entered my head that Nicky Marker had deliberately set out to cause anything like that. To be honest I thought if anything it was more about a top class player used to a bit more time and space getting caught out by the physicality of the old second division. 

Exactly, I was there to and with hindsight this is what happened.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 hours ago, arbitro said:

The well known player wouldn't be Johnny King of Altrincham would it Tyrone?

You're very warm there Arby.

[Batman.]

10 hours ago, Stuart said:

That escalated quickly!

”Let him know you’re there” is not the same as “hurt him”. It’s making your opponent know that you are not afraid to put a strong challenge in.

“Reckless” might be more on the the right lines. The football equivalent of “negligence “ which will be the basis for the legal action.

Having read a few reports from the incident (I typed "Thornley Marker tackle" into Google before anyone moans about lack of link) the suggestion seems to be that Thornley had danced past him a few times that night and the final time it happened, Marker hacked him down.  

Whether or not this is 100 percent accurate I don't know, but given Marker's playing style and temperament, it's certainly believable. 

If you read that a tackle from Roy Keane had shattered someone's knee to a near irreparable extent, you'd probably suspect there was malice behind it. If you then read that he had been successfully sued, it would only serve to intensify your initial feeling.

I stand by my original statement of "what a shame such a promising young career was ended by such a shit house of a player."

If anyone disagrees, well, luckily there is room for both of our opinions. I personally would have loved to see a player "better than Giggs and Scholes" playing for both United and especially England. Of course, it could be hyperbole thrown around as a mark of respect, but we'll never know... 

[arbitro]

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

You're very warm there Arby.

Was it one of his teammates? I remember the Altrincham team from that era full of hard men but King was the daddy. If I remember correctly he smashed Ossie Ardiles in the first minute when Altrincham played Spurs in the FA Cup.

[Stuart]

7 minutes ago, Batman. said:

Having read a few reports from the incident (I typed "Thornley Marker tackle" into Google before anyone moans about lack of link) the suggestion seems to be that Thornley had danced past him a few times that night and the final time it happened, Marker hacked him down.  

Whether or not this is 100 percent accurate I don't know, but given Marker's playing style and temperament, it's certainly believable. 

If you read that a tackle from Roy Keane had shattered someone's knee to a near irreparable extent, you'd probably suspect there was malice behind it. If you then read that he had been successfully sued, it would only serve to intensify your initial feeling.

I stand by my original statement of "what a shame such a promising young career was ended by such a shit house of a player."

If anyone disagrees, well, luckily there is room for both of our opinions. I personally would have loved to see a player "better than Giggs and Scholes" playing for both United and especially England. Of course, it could be hyperbole thrown around as a mark of respect, but we'll never know... 

I clicked like on that post but as Chaddy might say: it was only for part of the post. The penultimate sentence I can’t agree with!

[DeeCee]

2 hours ago, meadows said:

Any relation?

Hope not! I've never had blind faith lol

[Batman.]

1 minute ago, Stuart said:

I clicked like on that post but as Chaddy might say: it was only for part of the post. The penultimate sentence I can’t agree with!

You wouldn't like to have seen such a talent play for England? Or United?

I always found the hypocracy that surrounded the hatred of Ferguson's United astounding. They achieved everything doing all the things that any fan would want their own club to do... The core of the team/ squad came through the academy, they didn't throw money at player wages nor at fees (compared to the other transfer fees of the time), and they played gung-ho attacking football. 

Nowadays people would cheer on the likes of Chelsea and City against that 90's United team, turning a blind eye to the suffering behind the money that has bought that particular success.

I'm happy to have lived seeing what must be the greatest club team we've seen in English football, and even happier to have taken a title off them. And frankly, I'd cheer that particular team on ahead of the Middle Easten States and their blood money that are currently dominating English football and beyond.

But again, each to their own.

[Stuart]

A fan not wanting to see brilliant players turning out for United.

On a Rovers fan site.

Whodathunk?  

Good to see you posting again, batty boy.

[Batman.]

8 minutes ago, Stuart said:

A fan not wanting to see brilliant players turning out for United.

On a Rovers fan site.

Whodathunk?  

Good to see you posting again, batty boy.

ÖIt was 20 years ago. Whilst we were knocking around in the old first division I'd have been more than happy to be watching Thornley (on the presumption he would have been better than Giggs, Scholes, Best, Pele combined) ripping it up for United and England.

Not entirely sure how it would have had a negative effect on Rovers? Unlike most, I guess I didn't grow up with an irrational hatred of Man United.

What I would give now for a team like that (with all the contexts previously stated) to be at the top of English Football, rather than some Arab Royalty run outfit who have made football into a game of late 90's Championship Manager, when you used to cheat by going into the editor and driving your team unlimited funds.

Edited October 14, 2018 by Batman.

[Stuart]

Thornley would have come through when Rovers would have been playing against them. I wouldn’t wish a career ending injury on anyone - not a red rat or a dingle - but to want effectively Alan Shearer to be playing against us during that period.

No nay never.

Edited October 14, 2018 by Stuart

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

53 minutes ago, arbitro said:

Was it one of his teammates? I remember the Altrincham team from that era full of hard men but King was the daddy. If I remember correctly he smashed Ossie Ardiles in the first minute when Altrincham played Spurs in the FA Cup.

No, you were right first time.

[old darwen blue]

4 hours ago, Batman. said:

ÖIt was 20 years ago. Whilst we were knocking around in the old first division I'd have been more than happy to be watching Thornley (on the presumption he would have been better than Giggs, Scholes, Best, Pele combined) ripping it up for United and England.

Not entirely sure how it would have had a negative effect on Rovers? Unlike most, I guess I didn't grow up with an irrational hatred of Man United.

What I would give now for a team like that (with all the contexts previously stated) to be at the top of English Football, rather than some Arab Royalty run outfit who have made football into a game of late 90's Championship Manager, when you used to cheat by going into the editor and driving your team unlimited funds.

I think you are posting on the wrong site, may I re direct you here?

http://www.redcafe.net/

No need to thank me. 

[DeeCee]

Think he's saying that it's a decent legacy for any Club to have, notwithstanding that it's Manure.

 

[Batman.]

4 hours ago, DeeCee said:

Think he's saying that it's a decent legacy for any Club to have, notwithstanding that it's Manure.

 

I've made pretty in-depth and reasoned posts to articulate and explain what I've said, and the inability to respond directly to my points suggest that they have no real answer.  

Just goes to show, whatever people say, the only reason people come to places like this (messageboards/ forums etc) is to be agreed with or to argue.

The lack of inbetween makes such communities a waste of time for the sound minded.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Batman.

[oldjamfan1]

On 13/10/2018 at 21:58, Batman. said:

I have yes, for many years. 

As have those at Old Trafford that were so appalled by the challenge, they opted to sue Marker, and won.

You seem to be struggling in accepting that somebody disagrees with you, and struggling even more to argue the points that I'm making.

You can accept that we disagree and leave it there, try and debate the point with an element of intellect, or continue the futile task of trying to ridicule me through one liners. I fancy my chances whichever way you choose.

I wasn't trying to ridicule you - just wondering whether you actually truly believe that an aggressive tackle is "football's equivalent of manslaughter"?

Also, if you've played the game for years you will no doubt have seen hundreds of very similar tackles - probably much worse ones in fact, if you played at amateur level - that didn't result in serious injury. My problem with all of this is you seem to be singling Marker out as some sort of extreme hacker, when in truth most teams had at least one player of his type in those days. Exhibit A; Glenn Keeley, who was worshipped at Ewood for years. Was he a 'shithouse player' as well?

[K-Hod]

'Letting someone know you're there', is hardly the equivalent of manslaughter. Playing football is a battle and if defenders put in a heavy, but fair challenge early on, some attackers perhaps won't relish the physical battle and have a quiet game.

It happens a lot, even at the very top level sadly. 

Re Nicky Marker's challenge, only he will know whether he intended to 'hurt' Ben Thornley or not. My guess is that he went to try and land an early blow in the physical battle I mentioned above, but as I haven't seen the challenge, I can't possibly comment.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but it seems unlikely that he would go into that challenge intending to ruin (a fellow pro) Ben Thornley's  career.

Edited October 15, 2018 by K-Hod

[blueboy3333]

He has such a kind face too

[speeeeeeedie]

1 hour ago, K-Hod said:

'Letting someone know you're there', is hardly the equivalent of manslaughter. Playing football is a battle and if defenders put in a heavy, but fair challenge early on, some attackers perhaps won't relish the physical battle and have a quiet game.

It happens a lot, even at the very top level sadly. 

Re Nicky Marker's challenge, only he will know whether he intended to 'hurt' Ben Thornley or not. My guess is that he went to try and land an early blow in the physical battle I mentioned above, but as I haven't seen the challenge, I can't possibly comment.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but it seems unlikely that he would go into that challenge intending to ruin (a fellow pro) Ben Thornley's  career.

To the point I highlighted; probably not. It happened in the second half.

It's fair to say that Marker's challenge was a poor one. Nobody knows what his intent was though, but very doubtful that it was to end a career. There's no video as far as I know, I've not been able to find out If he was sent off or not, and as the civil suit was settled out of court there is little to go on their either. Has Marker ever commented on it? Other players? Tony Parkes (reserve team manger at the time)? I'll suspect not. Those details may be in the book, but I'll not be buying it.

I'll save the argument on which team should be more hated; Ferguson's Utd or Russian Chelsea or post Emerati City for a later date.

[Stuart]

This is why tackling is such an art, a skill even. It only takes a slight misjudgment and you can go over the top of the ball and it’s into someone’s shin or knee.

Find it hard to believe that any professional player would go all out to end another player’s career. Maybe Roy Keane is the potential exception that springs to mind. That was a malicious tackle if ever I saw one.

Yet he is lauded as one of the greatest players of the modern era...

[Batman.]

12 hours ago, oldjamfan1 said:

I wasn't trying to ridicule you - just wondering whether you actually truly believe that an aggressive tackle is "football's equivalent of manslaughter"?

Also, if you've played the game for years you will no doubt have seen hundreds of very similar tackles - probably much worse ones in fact, if you played at amateur level - that didn't result in serious injury. My problem with all of this is you seem to be singling Marker out as some sort of extreme hacker, when in truth most teams had at least one player of his type in those days. Exhibit A; Glenn Keeley, who was worshipped at Ewood for years. Was he a 'shithouse player' as well?

A tackle with excessive force is football's equivalent of manslaughter if it seriously injures someone/ ends their career. Note the word "excessive." I believe in any case when a tackle leaves a knee shattered in every perceivable place it is reasonable to assume that excessive force was used. I strongly suspect Marker intended to foul him after having had the piss ripped out of him all game. A foul is an illegal manoeuvre in football. Thus strengthening even more the "manslaughter" analogy. I have no doubt he had no intention whatsoever of ending his career, and that the haste of the tackle was made in the moment, and  therefore not premeditated. Hence me not saying "football murder."

I'm not sure why the analogy has caused so many difficulties and been seemingly so controversial.

If you wack someone around the head with excessive force in a scrap and accidentally kill them, guess what you get charged for?

My original point was "what a shame that his career was ended by such a shit house of a player."

What's the problem? Are people really so offended about Nicky Sodding Marker being labelled a "shit house?" He was bang average, bit of a shit house, decent servant, left half decent memories (probably only by association taking into account his era). 

Feel bad for Thornley, and glad that after years of torment he's seemingly got over it. Whether or not he was "as good on the ground as Messi but a bit quicker and like Shearer in the air" we'll never know. 

[tomphil]

10 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

He has such a kind face too

Tommy Hatcher before he ended up on Green Street ?

[DeeCee]

I thought exactly the same when I saw it earlier but couldn't think of the name lol

[old darwen blue]

13 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

 

Edited October 16, 2018 by old darwen blue
Already posted

[Vinjay]

Came across footage and remembered this thread.