POLL - SKY RED-BUTTON AND IT'S EFFECT ON SEASON-TICKET HOLDERS

[unsall]

Just now, JHRover said:

a) Go back to how it was - stop red button streaming and Ifollow coverage, or strictly limit it to midweek fixtures and not weekends.

b) Use the increased tv income to significantly reduce ticket prices and increase the incentive to attend games.

Yes I agree,but the increased tv income includes this red button.

[JHRover]

Just now, unsall said:

Yes I agree,but the increased tv income includes this red button.

Yeah, so it needs to be one or the other. If they're desperate to accept the money then they have to use a significant chunk of it to persuade people to go to games rather than watch on tv. Alternatively, which i would prefer, though I can see why others wouldn't, is to send the money back to Sky and return to how it was before this season.

[Stuart]

The Sky red button satisfies a gap for away games at unsociable times.

The irony is that those unsociable times have been caused by Sky (and now BT) moving games to unsociable times to circumvent the 3pm rule.

Maybe it was ITV that started it but at least when Elton Welsby and The Big Match did it all those years ago it was only on a Sunday lunchtime.

[Hasta]

I'm a social season ticket holder. I go to the game and meet mates I only see once a fortnight and then spend 2 or 3 hours in the pub with them after the game. I don't see the red button stopping that.  There are several games I go to a year where my mates can't make it and I'm on my own.I go to those as it's the only way to see them game and I'm interested.  Had they been on tv I may well stop home and watch. Therefore the warning bells should be there.

Its more likely season tickets pushing the £400 barrier, or missing a significant amount of games because it's midweek or unsociable kick off times, that will stop me renewing.

 

Edited October 16, 2018 by Hasta

[unsall]

1 minute ago, JHRover said:

Yeah, so it needs to be one or the other. If they're desperate to accept the money then they have to use a significant chunk of it to persuade people to go to games rather than watch on tv. Alternatively, which i would prefer, though I can see why others wouldn't, is to send the money back to Sky and return to how it was before this season.

Nothing new for massive teams like United,Liverpool etc they have had their games moved for years,but when impacts on teams like Rovers,with low crowds,it will  be a problem,like I say we could have to wait till next season to see if season tickets are cheaper,because I think the EFL are tied in for a few years,but on a personal view I will be at Ewood regardless,go to quite a few away games,only times it will benefit me is something like Swansea away midweek,but can understand guys who go every game home and away will not be happy.

[Paul]

2 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

People want the best for the club unsall, simple as that.

As for your actual suggestion, it would be a good idea to offset increases in TV revenue with cheaper tickets, but I’ll believe it when I see it.

Won't make a scrap of difference Matty. People mainly either want to go or don't. Obviously there are those who can't but the majority are just looking for reasons to justify not going. The lost 10,000 won't return till we are back in the PL and even then I have my doubts.

[Mattyblue]

Oh I’ve no visions of those returning, it’s elements of the regular and semi regular attendees I envisage dropping off. There’s evidence of it on this thread already - and this is from fans that spend their days on an Internet forum relating to the club - so invested folk.

This won’t be just a Rovers issue, end of the day we won’t really know until next season and subsequent ones.

[unsall]

10 minutes ago, Paul said:

Won't make a scrap of difference Matty. People mainly either want to go or don't. Obviously there are those who can't but the majority are just looking for reasons to justify not going. The lost 10,000 won't return till we are back in the PL and even then I have my doubts.

You’re so right there,excuses all the time,blaming the owners, management,players etc,what they really mean is,they want premier league football,nothing new we’ve always had crap gates for leagues below top division,bumped into someone yesterday who had stopped going last year,said have you gone back yet,he said I nearly did,but they went backwards again,not proper fans just glory hunters,not just Rovers,many teams same.

[Mattyblue]

That’s football fans for you. Takes all sorts.

Some are really committed, some are ‘pick their games’ types, some prefer going away, some are loosely fans of their club but not particularly arsed, some just moan about the club even though they’ve not been there since 19xx and so on.

So not sure what your point is unsall and why it means we shouldn’t be concerned about crowds now and in the future.

Edited October 16, 2018 by Mattyblue

[jodrell]

i remember when sky first got involved with the Monday night games. Saying it wont affect the fans and cheaper tickets. all that's happened is more games on tv and more expensive tickets and players getting richer.

[unsall]

39 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

That’s football fans for you. Takes all sorts.

Some are really committed, some are ‘pick their games’ types, some prefer going away, some are loosely fans of their club but not particularly arsed, some just moan about the club even though they’ve not been there since 19xx and so on.

So not sure what your point is unsall and why it means we shouldn’t be concerned about crowds now and in the future.

No,not saying not concerned because it will affect crowds,but if clubs decide to go down this route,will have to be cheaper season tickets.

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, Paul said:

Won't make a scrap of difference Matty. People mainly either want to go or don't. Obviously there are those who can't but the majority are just looking for reasons to justify not going. The lost 10,000 won't return till we are back in the PL and even then I have my doubts.

 

1 hour ago, unsall said:

You’re so right there,excuses all the time,blaming the owners, management,players etc,what they really mean is,they want premier league football,nothing new we’ve always had crap gates for leagues below top division,bumped into someone yesterday who had stopped going last year,said have you gone back yet,he said I nearly did,but they went backwards again,not proper fans just glory hunters,not just Rovers,many teams same.

I dont really understand this mindset. As you touch on unsall there are different types of supporters for every team. There are supporters that go regardless, presumably you 2 are in that category. I dont agree with the season ticket rises, I dont agree with bending over backwards regarding moving kick off times to allow more away fans to attend, and I am not happy not only to have been moved from the Darwen End, but without any consultation. These are all for me valid criticisms but Ive still got a season ticket and go to some away games. Youd consider it moaning for me to point these out, but they are valid concerns pointed out by loyal attendees who have continued to back the club through thick and thin. But they arent the fans the club should be concerned about.

You can call them what you like, glory hunters, fans looking for an excuse not to go, the point is we need as many of these fans in the stadium as we can, we need to try and cut out these potential excuses! Its like you are looking down on these people with the attitude of, it doesnt matter if they attend or not. It does and at a point of relative success in recent years, Waggott and co may have missed the chance to get some of these back. Missing season ticket targets are statistical evidence of that.

[had.e.nuff]

I am begining to think that the broadcasters must be aiming to get every game like the england game on friday totaly devoid of atmosphere with no crowd .

[chaddyrovers]

5 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

What about those that can’t make it? They don’t get to watch it, simple as that.

But again you aren’t grasping it chaddy, so here I go.

This isn’t about mad committed fans that maybe can’t make on odd game. Using you or me as an example, it wouldn’t stop us buying a ST in the future, we’d just be happy we got to see a game we’d have otherwise missed.

However, there maybe others that are weighing up renewing for whatever reason, maybe they struggle to get to non Saturday afternoon matches etc or they pick their games, THEY could well keep their cash in their pocket.

I understood fine thanks Matty. Some fans cant make games or dont live locally so the red button is good for those type of fans. 

Thats why I suggest have just a Weekend match season ticket for those fans. 

5 hours ago, unsall said:

Yep that’s about right, I’ll still be there and don’t do many away games,could end up with cheaper season tickets,to counter it,because there are plenty on here who think season tickets are too dear,I think it’s just about right,probably middle of the road in the division,need to give them away to please some fans.

I agree on the price being just about right. 15 pounds per game for season ticket. 

3 hours ago, JHRover said:

a) Go back to how it was - stop red button streaming and Ifollow coverage, or strictly limit it to midweek fixtures and not weekends.

b) Use the increased tv income to significantly reduce ticket prices and increase the incentive to attend games.

Has the latest TV deal go up money wise? 

[JHRover]

1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

I understood fine thanks Matty. Some fans cant make games or dont live locally so the red button is good for those type of fans. 

Thats why I suggest have just a Weekend match season ticket for those fans. 

I agree on the price being just about right. 15 pounds per game for season ticket. 

Has the latest TV deal go up money wise? 

I seem to recall something about clubs getting an increase in exchange for the red button service. If they don't then why on earth have they allowed it to come in?

[roversfan99]

13 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I understood fine thanks Matty. Some fans cant make games or dont live locally so the red button is good for those type of fans. 

Thats why I suggest have just a Weekend match season ticket for those fans. 

I agree on the price being just about right. 15 pounds per game for season ticket. 

Has the latest TV deal go up money wise? 

Youre assuming that all fans who dont attend midweek games dont go because they cant. Point being that the red button may deter those who can, and in the past have, from attending too. 

[chaddyrovers]

2 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Youre assuming that all fans who dont attend midweek games dont go because they cant. Point being that the red button may deter those who can, and in the past have, from attending too. 

Not at all. Will simply dont know how many are deter by the red button options. But I know some people who cant make midweek games due to work or family commitments

[J*B]

The plan has always been, since the release of iFollow,  to make it that the majority of Premier League and Championship games are available to fans UK and abroad live. 

The only way this works is if somehow the cost of iFollow (or Sky - they are literally beaming the usual iFollow pictures with a graphic over the top) is in line with the minimum priced ticket and the club's get in the region of 70% of the profits. 

[roversfan99]

52 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Not at all. Will simply dont know how many are deter by the red button options. But I know some people who cant make midweek games due to work or family commitments

Which is irrelevant to the point @Mattyblue was making. Which is why he said you are missing the point.

You are discussing people that cant go regardless. Totally moot, obviously thats the case, just as me and you will go regardless. The purpose of this thread is considering those who may see the red button, and usually when theyd rush home from work or whatever to sit in the cold, they might not have that motivation if its on TV.

The poll shows that some people WILL be deterred somewhat. A small percentage, but still a blow. Even if we lost 1000 season ticket holders due to it, thats a big blow seeing as Waggotts pricing structure already caused us to sell less than expected.

I dont point any fingers at Rovers or any other club for the red button being a deterrent. Hopefully Waggott will learn from his mistakes and make prices cheaper next season to ensure that crowds dont drop, and also as @J*B hopefully the money we receive from any TV deals compensates for any loss. 

Even though I will benefit personally, for example away games midweek like you are a bonus being on TV, I think from a less selfish point of view, the red button overall is not necessarily a good thing. Football needs supporters in stadiums.

[chaddyrovers]

6 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Which is irrelevant to the point @Mattyblue was making. Which is why he said you are missing the point.

You are discussing people that cant go regardless. Totally moot, obviously thats the case, just as me and you will go regardless. The purpose of this thread is considering those who may see the red button, and usually when theyd rush home from work or whatever to sit in the cold, they might not have that motivation if its on TV.

The poll shows that some people WILL be deterred somewhat. A small percentage, but still a blow. Even if we lost 1000 season ticket holders due to it, thats a big blow seeing as Waggotts pricing structure already caused us to sell less than expected.

I dont point any fingers at Rovers or any other club for the red button being a deterrent. Hopefully Waggott will learn from his mistakes and make prices cheaper next season to ensure that crowds dont drop,

Even though I will benefit personally, for example away games midweek like you are a bonus being on TV, I think from a less selfish point of view, the red button overall is not necessarily a good thing. Football needs supporters in stadiums.

I understood Matty point fine thanks. 

I wouldnt expect many people to be rushing home after for a game in the cold weather anyway even if the red button wasnt available. Plus we dont know their personal circumstances either. 

I think the prices are fair and reasonable compare to other clubs at our level. I feel some people complain about the prices far too much. 

Like I said before I like the red button for away games during the week as I would struggle to get to most away games sadly. 

[Mattyblue]

Match day prices do compare to other clubs and they are all too expensive. Up to £30 a ticket here and at Bolton. Madness for lower league football in this area.

Season tickets work out at about £14/15 a game so I’d agree they aren’t too bad.

We all know actual midweek crowds are always lower, I bet we all see plenty of season ticket holder seats empty every Tuesday/Wednesday night. Key difference is is that they are sill counted in the figures and have paid for the ticket regardless. Such people know they miss a few games but they still deem the ST decent value.

In the future they may not bother buying one in the first place if they realise they can watch nearly half the home games on TV - they may think it’s no longer worth the outlay - that’s what you’re not grasping, nothing to do with those missing an odd game getting a chance to see it, or those that live miles away or folk like us getting to watch Swansea away.

 

Edited October 17, 2018 by Mattyblue

[Herbie6590]

15 hours ago, RoverKyle said:

Just as a follow on, the television changes won't necessarily have an impact on my decision on whether or not to renew. I have SkyGo, but that doesn't provide a red button option as far as I'm aware. Plus I prefer to go to games than watch them on TV!

Sky Go doesn’t show Red Button but there is a separate Sky Sports app which does offer those games

[K-Hod]

14 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I understood Matty point fine thanks. 

I wouldnt expect many people to be rushing home after for a game in the cold weather anyway even if the red button wasnt available. Plus we dont know their personal circumstances either. 

I think the prices are fair and reasonable compare to other clubs at our level. I feel some people complain about the prices far too much. 

Like I said before I like the red button for away games during the week as I would struggle to get to most away games sadly. 

You keep saying this, but it really doesn't seem like you did.....

[Herbie6590]

16 hours ago, JHRover said:

I don't understand why this is such an issue. Are they worried that people are going to stay at home to watch La Liga games rather than go to English matches?

Surely the impact of allowing foreign games to be broadcast between 3-5pm is going to be minimal.

The only potential issue I can see here is that if Eleven Sports are allowed to broadcast Italian or Spanish games between 3pm and 5pm then Sky Sports might claim it is discrimination that they are not allowed to show English games, but surely the League, acting on behalf of it's member clubs, can uphold such a thing?

The issue is that without the blackout, Sky &/or iFollow can offer TV options on a Saturday afternoon, so the choice isn’t Rovers or Barcelona/Real Madrid....it’s Rovers in the flesh or Rovers on TV.

At the last international break, L1 & L2 games on a Saturday were televised on iFollow. Andy Holt at Stanley had Burton fans Tweeting him saying they were now gonna watch on TV. So Stanley would lose out on ticket sales plus - and here’s the interesting bit - Burton got the money from iFollow for selling the TV packages....so we’ll supported clubs who bring large away followings (Leeds) can make money from away games...not the home team.

 

Holt likened it to hosting a party where the guests sell tickets and keep the proceeds without contributing to the costs of hosting.

 

Rovers should be concerned about this IMHO.

[JHRover]

Just now, Herbie6590 said:

The issue is that without the blackout, Sky &/or iFollow can offer TV options on a Saturday afternoon, so the choice isn’t Rovers or Barcelona/Real Madrid....it’s Rovers in the flesh or Rovers on TV.

At the last international break, L1 & L2 games on a Saturday were televised on iFollow. Andy Holt at Stanley had Burton fans Tweeting him saying they were now gonna watch on TV. So Stanley would lose out on ticket sales plus - and here’s the interesting bit - Burton got the money from iFollow for selling the TV packages....so we’ll supported clubs who bring large away followings (Leeds) can make money from away games...not the home team.

 

Holt likened it to hosting a party where the guests sell tickets and keep the proceeds without contributing to the costs of hosting.

 

Rovers should be concerned about this IMHO.

Yes I thought that but surely if League clubs were so concerned then they would be able to agree between themselves that no broadcaster can show live English games on a Saturday. 

If there's a problem with foreign games being shown live then don't allow any English games to be broadcast.

Presumably we're getting into territory of it being discriminatory to pick between nationalities of the EU or something on those lines and they will claim that any live broadcasts have to be treated the same regardless of country.