POLL - SKY RED-BUTTON AND IT'S EFFECT ON SEASON-TICKET HOLDERS

[Mattyblue]

Who signs off the TV deals? I’m assuming that EFL bureaucrats in their Preston office don’t do it unilaterally. Are they not voted on?

Seems like lower league chairman like yer man at Stanley seem to have been totally caught out by it. Odd state of affairs.

[Herbie6590]

Worth registering for the free articles to read this

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/8250759e-d17b-11e8-b8d4-d6fb90acb7b1

[Herbie6590]

47 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Yes I thought that but surely if League clubs were so concerned then they would be able to agree between themselves that no broadcaster can show live English games on a Saturday. 

If there's a problem with foreign games being shown live then don't allow any English games to be broadcast.

Presumably we're getting into territory of it being discriminatory to pick between nationalities of the EU or something on those lines and they will claim that any live broadcasts have to be treated the same regardless of country.

I suspect the challenge will be driven by commercial imperative. Say Sky think they can raise subscription prices by offering it they will. The 3pm blackout isn’t a law as such it’s a best practice guideline so very difficult to enforce. Eleven have clearly taken shrewd legal advice and opened a can of worms.

As always, the biggest clubs have most to gain financially and so it will almost certainly happen at some juncture.

[MarkBRFC]

It's a strange one for me personally.

I have been going to Ewood since the late 80's as a very young kid, before becoming an absolute fanatic from probably the Liverpool FA Cup game in 1991 onwards. Got first season ticket in 1992 when we were promoted and held one every year until Coyle was appointed, took a year off as I felt somebody had spat in my face with that appointment, and still ended up buying match tickets for most of the 3pm kick offs anyway, then got my season ticket back last season and this season.

If this had happened 10/15 years ago I wouldn't have bat an eyelid at it and would have carried on going to the games regardless of TV, Red buttons, kick off times etc., I was even one of the very few who had the "away game season ticket" between 2003 & 2008, I know we were in the premier league back then but I have to stress that it is nothing to do with that at all.

Fast forward to 2018 though, I'm a season ticket holder who lives an hour away on a good day, have a fairly demanding job with some long hours in the week, a wife, a mortgage and a 8 year old son.

By the time the Rotherham game rolls around on November 11th, that will be only the 4th game out of the opening 9 that me and my lad will have managed to attend at Ewood despite being season ticket holders. All the others bar the QPR game in a few weeks we will have been able to watch live on TV or via the red button, which as much as there is no substitute for being at a live game, has come in handy rather than messing about on the M6 at rush hour or dealing with northern rail strikes for lunchtime/tea time kick offs, I haven't been able to get in or out of my town on the train on any Saturday since the beginning of August, having to either get lifts or public transport buses to either Macclesfield or Crewe.

It does make me have a think about next season, with all the best will in the world I commit to a season ticket but everyday life gets in the way, my lads football club dropped a tournament on us this Saturday at fairly late notice, he desperately wants to play in it, I was initially frustrated at missing Rovers but then remembered we would probably be home just as the game is kicking off on the red button so at least we can watch it.

At the moment I'm leaning to probably renewing our season tickets for ease and because both me and the boy love being there and I really want him to stay interested in Rovers, but it is really concerning to what is "next" with TV coverage going forward.

Edited October 17, 2018 by MarkBRFC

[JHRover]

Just now, Herbie6590 said:

I suspect the challenge will be driven by commercial imperative. Say Sky think they can raise subscription prices by offering it they will. The 3pm blackout isn’t a law as such it’s a best practice guideline so very difficult to enforce. Eleven have clearly taken shrewd legal advice and opened a can of worms.

As always, the biggest clubs have most to gain financially and so it will almost certainly happen at some juncture.

I'm sure Sky need the consent of the EFL to alter the package they currently offer. I'm sure that the decision to allow the red button facility this season will have been debated between member clubs at the AGM and approved on the basis that the increase in tv money would easily offset any losses in ticket revenues.

I'm also sure that the EFL clubs and board (who supposedly act on behalf of member clubs) could turn around to any broadcaster and make it clear under no circumstances can they broadcast live matches between 3pm and 5:15pm.

Maybe I'm being naïve or missing the point here but I still don't get why this stunt from Eleven Sports and La Liga is such an issue. I've seen it reported in a few papers and understand there is a lot of concern about it but again if the EFL are determined to stop it happening I'm not sure what anyone can do about it. The problem develops when the EFL starts conceding ground and allowing things to happen, and once the door is slightly ajar it probably won't be closed again.

La Liga is a different country and different rules. They seem to have no problem enforcing a UK blackout on satellite broadcasts, forcing pubs and customers to pay higher prices than people in Europe do for live football. So one rule for England and another for abroad isn't a problem.

As far as I'm concerned they could broadcast Spanish/Italian football 24/7 on UK tv, I find it boring, so long as they don't extend that to English matches.

Sky can surely only do what their agreement with the League allows them to do.

[K-Hod]

13 hours ago, unsall said:

You’re so right there,excuses all the time,blaming the owners, management,players etc,what they really mean is,they want premier league football,nothing new we’ve always had crap gates for leagues below top division,bumped into someone yesterday who had stopped going last year,said have you gone back yet,he said I nearly did,but they went backwards again,not proper fans just glory hunters,not just Rovers,many teams same.

I think this post is really unfair. If you just label everything you don't 100% agree with as 'moaning', then that really isn't conducive to debate and we might as well shut the site down......

Edited October 17, 2018 by K-Hod

[blueboy3333]

2 hours ago, Herbie6590 said:

At the last international break, L1 & L2 games on a Saturday were televised on iFollow

How did that happen with the blackout in place, or am I missing something?

[blueboy3333]

26 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

I think this post is really unfair. If you just label everything you don't 100% agree with as 'moaning', then that really isn't conducive to debate and we might as well shut the site down......

Even worse, it was Waggott and Mowbray who started this debate by 'moaning' at the attendances. Unsall is confused. 

[arbitro]

56 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

How did that happen with the blackout in place, or am I missing something?

The clubs voted for this at their AGM in Portugal during the summer. The proposal had a reference to a UEFA article which was referred to by number. This article allows for 3.00 pm games to be televised live during international breaks. The Chief Executive of a club who told me this felt they had been hoodwinked.

[AllRoverAsia]

Just now, arbitro said:

The clubs voted for this at their AGM in Portugal during the summer. The proposal had a reference to a UEFA article which was referred to by number. This article allows for 3.00 pm games to be televised live during international breaks. The Chief Executive of a club who told me this felt they had been hoodwinked.

Conned at a jolly on Portugal? Don't mix business with pleasure. No sympathy from me.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, arbitro said:

The clubs voted for this at their AGM in Portugal during the summer. The proposal had a reference to a UEFA article which was referred to by number. This article allows for 3.00 pm games to be televised live during international breaks. The Chief Executive of a club who told me this felt they had been hoodwinked.

Do you mean the clubs weren't aware of the implications of what they were voting for?

 

[arbitro]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

Do you mean the clubs weren't aware of the implications of what they were voting for?

 

Pretty much yes. As I was told nobody looked up the UEFA article and it was a shock when there was an announcement that games were being shown live on the first International break this season. Complaints were raised with the EFL who referred them to the summer vote. What I don't know is the number of votes for and against.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, arbitro said:

Pretty much yes. As I was told nobody looked up the UEFA article and it was a shock when there was an announcement that games were being shown live on the first International break this season. Complaints were raised with the EFL who referred them to the summer vote. What I don't know is the number of votes for and against.

Incredible.  And these people are in charge of running football clubs. 

[arbitro]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

Incredible.  And these people are in charge of running football clubs. 

I also don't know if the vote was just for League One and Two clubs given that it wouldn't impact on Championship clubs.

[Mattyblue]

58 minutes ago, unsall said:

I just think people moan on here and other social media all the time,and if people like Chaddy puts his views he gets shouted down,and anybody else who happens to think Rovers management are doing a decent job get ridiculed.

Rubbish. Most folk on here have stated that the club seems to be much better run these past 18 months or so.

But, if for example, the Chief Exec misses his own target for season ticket sales then we can criticise him.

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, unsall said:

I just think people moan on here and other social media all the time,and if people like Chaddy puts his views he gets shouted down,and anybody else who happens to think Rovers management are doing a decent job get ridiculed.

If you mean Mowbray by management, nonsense. People will always judge game by game but overall hes got the whole fan base behind him. Anyone saying hes doing "a decent job" will not get any detractors.

If you mean Waggott, please feel free to tell me what tangible improvements he has made, what he has done that is good? People have criticised him for valid, individual reasons. Pricing, surcharges, kick offs, moving the Darwen End, all things he is responsible for.

 

Edited October 17, 2018 by roversfan99

[OJRovers]

I don't think there will be a big impact on current season ticket holders of the red button games.

I think the impact will be on walk ons. £30+fee for a cold Tuesday night, when you can just watch it at home is a no-brainer for a lot of people.

[Herbie6590]

50 minutes ago, arbitro said:

I also don't know if the vote was just for League One and Two clubs given that it wouldn't impact on Championship clubs.

Andy Holt (Accy Stanley) said on his Twitter feed something to the effect that it wasn’t explicitly stated as granting permission, rather that the full implications weren’t debated and now that those implications are understood there are a number of owners unhappy with the EFL.

[Herbie6590]

1 hour ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Conned at a jolly on Portugal? Don't mix business with pleasure. No sympathy from me.

Conned by their own executive ? ?

 

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/16696311.stanley-owner-hits-out-at-efl-over-streaming-service/

[AllRoverAsia]

23 minutes ago, Herbie6590 said:

Conned by their own executive ? ?

 

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/16696311.stanley-owner-hits-out-at-efl-over-streaming-service/

Clubs should have known all about Article 48 and if not said so and refused to vote on something they did not unerstand. A bit late  to winge ATE.

In fainess most of the Execs would be pissed up on their freebie jolly and had their pants pulled down.

[blueboy3333]

28 minutes ago, Herbie6590 said:

Conned by their own executive ? ?

 

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/16696311.stanley-owner-hits-out-at-efl-over-streaming-service/

Holt doesn't say that the information wasn't available to them, just that it wasn't up for debate. I'm guessing the letter in July must have made specific reference to the fact 3pm games during International breaks could be broadcast on ifollow.  It doesn't even look like it was even mentioned at the Portugal shindig by the clubs or the EFL. 

“While Mr Holt accepts that EFL member clubs were written to at the beginning of July, the broadcasting exceptions during the international break were not made available for debate or agreed upon at the Summer Conference, and those exceptions were not highlighted in any form of detail in subsequent correspondence from the EFL"

[Crimpshrine]

It's only a small sample but the poll tells us that over 12% of fans are already influenced by the red button and 6% are undecided.

Assuming the undecided are obviously wavering because they feel they may be influenced at some point, that's a large percentage of dedicated fans who may not go to a game at some point due to the availability of the red button. Over 18% in total.

When you consider that the people who spend time on this site are probably Rovers 'addicts', that says a lot.  The figure is probably higher than 18% among fans who have an interest in Rovers but only attend now and again.

So it looks to me like the red button may have a big influence on attendances at all clubs given those figures. 

 

[chaddyrovers]

4 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

If you mean Mowbray by management, nonsense. People will always judge game by game but overall hes got the whole fan base behind him. Anyone saying hes doing "a decent job" will not get any detractors.

If you mean Waggott, please feel free to tell me what tangible improvements he has made, what he has done that is good? People have criticised him for valid, individual reasons. Pricing, surcharges, kick offs, moving the Darwen End, all things he is responsible for.

 

surcharges were there last season before he came in and he has already explained the reasons why. 

kick offs? how many games has he moved time for? 2 at most. hardly a major thing is it. 

not getting involved in the Darwen end debate either with you

2 hours ago, Crimpshrine said:

It's only a small sample but the poll tells us that over 12% of fans are already influenced by the red button and 6% are undecided.

Assuming the undecided are obviously wavering because they feel they may be influenced at some point, that's a large percentage of dedicated fans who may not go to a game at some point due to the availability of the red button. Over 18% in total.

When you consider that the people who spend time on this site are probably Rovers 'addicts', that says a lot.  The figure is probably higher than 18% among fans who have an interest in Rovers but only attend now and again.

So it looks to me like the red button may have a big influence on attendances at all clubs given those figures. 

 

14 people out of 70 people who voted is hardly a decent simple of fans it it? 

[gumboots]

4 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

surcharges were there last season before he came in and he has already explained the reasons why. 

 

Immediate goodwill towards him and the club if he'd scrapped it. It's not a lot on one ticket but if you pay for more than one eg you, your partner and a young family member it's a lot. And it's the principle of it. Why should you be penalised for deciding at the last minute you want to go and can? You'll already pay top price for your ticket compared to season ticket holders etc. That's what you expect when you're picking and choosing which matches to attend. But why should you pay more if you can't decide till nearly kick off? If there's room for you, and there certainly is at Ewood, then you should be allowed to purchase a ticket at the standard price. Other sports do it. Why can't we? 

[unsall]

4 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

If you mean Mowbray by management, nonsense. People will always judge game by game but overall hes got the whole fan base behind him. Anyone saying hes doing "a decent job" will not get any detractors.

If you mean Waggott, please feel free to tell me what tangible improvements he has made, what he has done that is good? People have criticised him for valid, individual reasons. Pricing, surcharges, kick offs, moving the Darwen End, all things he is responsible for.

 

Yeah, how is Waggot to blame for kick offs, been like this for a few years,police and safety officer, Darwen end, can’t see a problem moving them and leaving that end for away supporters,surcharging agree, no need for them, and pricing in hindsight with the red button I follow etc, need a new pricing structure, like Sharpe said today on his Q/A they have tried cheap tickets, not worked, think if I was running the show, next season, to try for an 1 year experiment a £200 season ticket,all over the ground, £100 u/16 and on the day match tickets of £20 for HOME supporters,  no cat A,B and C and crucially charge AWAY supporters the same as we get charged, £20 for West Brom if in same division and £38/40 for Leeds etc, we obviously differ in views re Waggot, it just seems to me he is trying hard to get harmony with fans and owners,all that above if obviously we have a decent season, finish half way up the table, and try and push on for promotion next season with hopefully a few more watching.