Swansea vs ROVERS - 23/10/18 19:45pm

[roversfan99]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Oh lets the panic button yet again.FFS!!! ?

What are you on about? I agreed with you that Mowbray shouldnt play Brereton wide and Dack as a striker.

[Ewood Ace]

Just now, Fraserkirky said:

Mowbray needs to figure this out and get our talented players out there.

Reed Lenihan Mulgrew Bell

Evans Rodwell

Palmer Dack Rothwell 

Brereton

Give the lad a go up front for God’s sake and bring a fresh Danny on after an hour. Armstrong spends too much time as a passenger.

Williams for Bell. But I’d love see a 3 of Dack, Palmer and Rothwell however for some reason Mowbray doesn’t seem very keen to start the latter two particularly Palmer who after a good game at Bolton hasn’t played at all.

[roversfan99]

3 minutes ago, Fraserkirky said:

Mowbray needs to figure this out and get our talented players out there.

Reed Lenihan Mulgrew Bell

Evans Rodwell

Palmer Dack Rothwell 

Brereton

Give the lad a go up front for God’s sake and bring a fresh Danny on after an hour. Armstrong spends too much time as a passenger.

Brereton should only be considered as a striker but no way can he be above Graham. Agree on Reed at right back barring a Nyambe return, in which case id play Reed wide and drop Rothwell.

2 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Well his games so far suggest that he is clearly not a winger and that Palmer Rothwell and Conway are all better options to play out wide. As for Rodwell reading the game well where was he for the 2nd and 3rd goals where one through ball saw them in on goal. Rodwell at centre back was another square peg in a round hole.

Rodwell is never a centre back. Think Potter realised pretty quickly in that second half that Bennett and Rodwell are not defenders and they ripped us to shreds down that side. 

[chaddyrovers]

5 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

What are you on about? I agreed with you that Mowbray shouldnt play Brereton wide and Dack as a striker.

Mowbray said in his interview "Dack can play there Armstrong can play there" and didnt even mention Brereton worryingly.

[Butty]

59 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

From a fan at the game about Brereton

Ben Brereton:

We've seen it with Samuel - Mowbray likes to play with a wide target man. He doesn't have great goalscoring form, so it's perhaps better playing him out wide. Best player when he came on tonight, and he has huge potential.

#rovers

This is fans who asking why we switch formation or the change of positions for Armstrong/Reed. @Angry_Pirate @Tyrone Shoelaces

From Rich Sharpe

Bruised hip for Lenihan. Will be assessed. Switch of flanks for Armstrong/Reed at h/t down to trying to expose Grimes at left back. Was something they’d worked on. TM felt he could have been braver and made more changes at the break. Wanted an extra man in midfield so went 4-3-3.

Chaddy I watched the game on the red button tonight and for me Brereton again showed he can NOT play out wide. Why aren’t we giving him a chance up top, for me either play him up top or not at all. Do you not agree? And I’m not having it that TM likes a wide target man and that is why Brereton plays there because of his goal scoring record also. He’s not even a target man type of player from what I’ve seen and the best chance the lad has of improving his goal scoring record is too be given a chance in his preferred position. We paid big money for him, with every 30 minute cameo we see of him struggling on the wing the more his confidence will be affected and the more fans will scrutinise him. Give the lad a chance up top or don’t play him at all because he is no use to the team out wide! It’s still early days, I hope he gets a chance to play upfront and I hope he proves himself. 

[RevidgeBlue]

18 minutes ago, Butty said:

Chaddy I watched the game on the red button tonight and for me Brereton again showed he can NOT play out wide. Why aren’t we giving him a chance up top, for me either play him up top or not at all. Do you not agree? And I’m not having it that TM likes a wide target man and that is why Brereton plays there because of his goal scoring record also. He’s not even a target man type of player from what I’ve seen and the best chance the lad has of improving his goal scoring record is too be given a chance in his preferred position. We paid big money for him, with every 30 minute cameo we see of him struggling on the wing the more his confidence will be affected and the more fans will scrutinise him. Give the lad a chance up top or don’t play him at all because he is no use to the team out wide! It’s still early days, I hope he gets a chance to play upfront and I hope he proves himself. 

Agreed. How impressive would Graham look if you stuck him out on the right wing? Brereton probably isn't as much of a hold up player as Graham but what talents he does have are clearly being wasted playing him out wide.

[Fraserkirky]

49 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Brereton should only be considered as a striker but no way can he be above Graham. Agree on Reed at right back barring a Nyambe return, in which case id play Reed wide and drop Rothwell.

Rodwell is never a centre back. Think Potter realised pretty quickly in that second half that Bennett and Rodwell are not defenders and they ripped us to shreds down that side. 

I thought their goals came from driving central midfield runs.

[Butty]

12 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Agreed. How impressive would Graham look if you stuck him out on the right wing? Brereton probably isn't as much of a hold up player as Graham but what talents he does have are clearly being wasted playing him out wide.

It’s hard to say what Brereton’s strengths are as we haven’t seen him upfront yet, but we can all safely say he doesn’t have the attributes required to play out wide! 

[Bbrovers2288]

We lost it when swans changed their mids and Fulton and fer dominated out two, pretty simple really. Think it’s fairly obvious mowbray was wrong with subs, we needed more physical in there which is why I’d have brought Palmer on but I think it’s obvious the reason he hasn’t been playing has been because of his defensive side and work rate to get back. Wouldn’t be surprised if he left January due to lack of game time. 

We were too open for them, contrary to how we usually set up on a lead, which is actually what was needed for once away from home and hit them on a fast break. For that reason I’d have changed the graham sub to Palmer, put dack out wide on the left and Armstrong up top to utilise his pace.

dacks a victim of his own success but he hasn’t been at it for a good few games now.

dont get the Bennett hate, thought he was alright other than being caught out of position trying to get the equaliser and conceding the third. Few of our players made rash challenges, another day and we would see red, Mulgrew for one. 

Brereton needs a run from the start up top, he can’t play wide and isn’t an impact sub. I also don’t know if he can play up on his own, but if he can’t he shouldn’t be signed as that’s what we play. 

Seen bell also criticised, thought he had a good game and won the pen. 

I really just wish mowbray would make signings and play folk in their normal position, but sick of this striker out wide experiment . 

I’d have taken 3 points from the double header of Leeds, swans. Not expecting anything from sat either, anything is a bonus but needs picking up again after that 

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

Just now, Bbrovers2288 said:

We lost it when swans changed their mids and Fulton and fer dominated out two, pretty simple really. Think it’s fairly obvious mowbray was wrong with subs, we needed more physical in there which is why I’d have brought Palmer on but I think it’s obvious the reason he hasn’t been playing has been because of his defensive side and work rate to get back. Wouldn’t be surprised if he left January due to lack of game time. 

We were too open for them, contrary to how we usually set up on a lead, which is actually what was needed for once away from home and hit them on a fast break. For that reason I’d have changed the graham sub to Palmer, put dack out wide on the left and Armstrong up top to utilise his pace.

dacks a victim of his own success but he hasn’t been at it for a good few games now.

dont get the Bennett hate, thought he was alright other than being caught out of position trying to get the equaliser and conceding the third. Few of our players made rash challenges, another day and we would see red, Mulgrew for one. 

Brereton needs a run from the start up top, he can’t play wide and isn’t an impact sub. I also don’t know if he can play up on his own, but if he can’t he shouldn’t be signed as that’s what we play. 

Seen bell also criticised, thought he had a good game and won the pen. 

I really just wish mowbray would make signings and play folk in their normal position, but sick of this striker out wide experiment . 

I’d have taken 3 points from the double header of Leeds, swans. Not expecting anything from sat either, anything is a bonus but needs picking up again after that 

Very fair post that.

[@roverseas]

Well that is one NOT for the memory books, but for the garbage bin! Terrible performance, looks like we got the GOOD Swansea City and not the shitty one.  Ah well... Rough with the smooth...  did I expect a win against Leeds? No, but chuffed that we did.  Did I expect a win against a low ranked Swansea City... maybe. So win some lose some.  Hoping we see a much improved Rovers this weekend, maybe a few changes needed as 3 games in 8 days can be pretty rough no matter how young or old you are.  Rothwell has my vote, maybe Rodwell too.  Meanwhile, Swansea City fan Buddy Hill dropped by after the match to give his thoughts, and so did the gaffa Tony Mowbray! 

 

[G Somerset Rover]

3 hours ago, Oldgregg86 said:

With a centre mid at right back , a centre mid at cb two strikers on the wing, a winger at centre mid, a league one clogger as your main centre mid and a bench full of fit lads watching the same 11 try and keep up levels of intensity after playing Saturday and a long trip to Wales I just can't think why we lost

Square pegs round holes. Said it many times. People getting giddy after Saturday - not a chance in hell we’ll get play offs - TM May well be the saviour we needed but he isn’t the oracle some would have you believe. Need some investment come January - our side is seriously one dimensional.

Edited October 24, 2018 by Gavlar Somerset Rover!

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, Butty said:

Chaddy I watched the game on the red button tonight and for me Brereton again showed he can NOT play out wide. Why aren’t we giving him a chance up top, for me either play him up top or not at all. Do you not agree? And I’m not having it that TM likes a wide target man and that is why Brereton plays there because of his goal scoring record also. He’s not even a target man type of player from what I’ve seen and the best chance the lad has of improving his goal scoring record is too be given a chance in his preferred position. We paid big money for him, with every 30 minute cameo we see of him struggling on the wing the more his confidence will be affected and the more fans will scrutinise him. Give the lad a chance up top or don’t play him at all because he is no use to the team out wide! It’s still early days, I hope he gets a chance to play upfront and I hope he proves himself. 

I would play him up front. Thats his position. He likes the ball to feet and playing on the defender last shoulder. We need to change style when he is playing we are wasted a very good talent player. 

The problem comes when you want to play 3 centre midfielders and keep it solid. Dack isnt a centre midfield or wide player. So will Mowbray be brave enough to taken both Dack and Graham off to give us a more solid base. Not a fan of Dack.has a false 9 striker but I understand Mowbray's thinking whilst disagree with him on it

[dingles staying down 4ever]

9 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

Goals definitely change games. If their equalizer had been an inch either side it would’ve been saved or gone out. If Benno has slid that one across the goal, 2-2. Ditto the save from Dack.

End of the day we didn’t create enough up front, before and after Graham went off, and all three of their goals came from runs at the middle of our defence, which has dented my positivity to date on Rodwell.

I'd be more worried about rodwell at centre half but all three  goals came from runs from deep. Evans was struggling and needed to come off sooner. The 2nd goal he was running in glue. Smallwood was missing for it as well.

The lack of pace in the whole team bar Armstrong is a major worry along with ball retention.

Oddly I thought Brereton was one of the few players who did OK in that poor 2nd half performance. I can't understand why Mowbray is looking to see out a game then why both Brereton and Armstrong are on the park as neither are natural at chasing and harrassing the full back when the oppossition are attacking. This just gives the opponents an overlap and gives an easy ball to them. 

[47er]

4 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I would play him up front. Thats his position. He likes the ball to feet and playing on the defender last shoulder. We need to change style when he is playing we are wasted a very good talent player. 

The problem comes when you want to play 3 centre midfielders and keep it solid. Dack isnt a centre midfield or wide player. So will Mowbray be brave enough to taken both Dack and Graham off to give us a more solid base. Not a fan of Dack.has a false 9 striker but I understand Mowbray's thinking whilst disagree with him on it

So you want TM to take both Dack and Graham off and,In another thread, you say you want Brereton to start?

Sounds like sabotage to me!  

[Stuart]

8 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Mowbray said in his interview "Dack can play there Armstrong can play there" and didnt even mention Brereton worryingly.

Good post Chaddy. Spot on.

It’s definitely a worry that the man earmarked to take over from Graham can’t play up top and has to go out wide to get on the pitch.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

23 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Good post Chaddy. Spot on.

It’s definitely a worry that the man earmarked to take over from Graham can’t play up top and has to go out wide to get on the pitch.

No it does not neccessarily mean that...he could play his natural position as a number 10.

[Stuart]

Just now, dingles staying down 4ever said:

No it does not neccessarily mean that...he could play his natural position as a number 10.

Which is where Dack plays. We did we buy (yet) another number 10 when we only have one number 9?

Unless he is Dack’s cheaper replacement...

[dingles staying down 4ever]

Just now, Stuart said:

Which is where Dack plays. We did we buy (yet) another number 10 when we only have one number 9?

Unless he is Dack’s cheaper replacement...

Agree we need another No.9 but there are not many players I've seen that can play that role.

I agree with TM in the fact that Dack has the physical attributes to play the Graham role. He should be harder to knock off the ball than any other player at the club.

What is lacking when Dack is there is someone in the Dack role which is abandoned when Graham goes off. The only time we've come close was the Leeds game when Brereton still went wide and Conway played the No.10 role to start with.

Oh and who is our no.10.....Danny Graham....so maybe Brereton has been signed for the no.10 role..

[joey_big_nose]

1 hour ago, dingles staying down 4ever said:

I'd be more worried about rodwell at centre half but all three  goals came from runs from deep. Evans was struggling and needed to come off sooner. The 2nd goal he was running in glue. Smallwood was missing for it as well.

The lack of pace in the whole team bar Armstrong is a major worry along with ball retention.

Oddly I thought Brereton was one of the few players who did OK in that poor 2nd half performance. I can't understand why Mowbray is looking to see out a game then why both Brereton and Armstrong are on the park as neither are natural at chasing and harrassing the full back when the oppossition are attacking. This just gives the opponents an overlap and gives an easy ball to them. 

I'm surprised we brought on Rodwell rather than Williams tbh. Then we could have kept Rodwell to tighten up midfield later in the game. Either way losing Lenihan was a big blow.

Also same problem of not being able to retain the ball once Graham went off. Brereton looks like he should be a target man but I see why Mowbrays plays him wide as he drops deep, likes the ball to feet, and seems terrible in the air. I'm just so confused by why we signed him when we have half a dozen people who can do a job on the wing, but only one proper striker.

Anyhow for next game I don't think Mowbray will be devastated, we just need to learn from that experience. Maybe we would have been better to put Armstrong up top when Graham went off and just played the long ball over onto his pace. Hmm. Genuinely don't get what putting Dack up there does for us. You could argue that part of the reason Swansea scores those three was previously Dack was dropping in to support Evans and Smallwood, and when Graham went off he couldn't do that any longer.

 

[MarkBRFC]

I'd play the same starting 11 that we had at Bolton at WBA on Sat.

[blueboy3333]

Graham is key for us because we play in a way that suits a striker like him. Dack. as good as he is,  isn't going to win the knock-downs when the ball is hoofed up to him. 

Another concern is how few goals we score from open play - only about 10 of our 17 so far. We either don't create enough chances or we don't take those chances.

Dack seems to be missing his one good chance per game at the moment.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

Just now, joey_big_nose said:

I'm surprised we brought on Rodwell rather than Williams tbh. Then we could have kept Rodwell to tighten up midfield later in the game. Either way losing Lenihan was a big blow.

Also same problem of not being able to retain the ball once Graham went off. Brereton looks like he should be a target man but I see why Mowbrays plays him wide as he drops deep, likes the ball to feet, and seems terrible in the air. I'm just so confused by why we signed him when we have half a dozen people who can do a job on the wing, but only one proper striker.

Anyhow for next game I don't think Mowbray will be devastated, we just need to learn from that experience. Maybe we would have been better to put Armstrong up top when Graham went off and just played the long ball over onto his pace. Hmm. Genuinely don't get what putting Dack up there does for us. You could argue that part of the reason Swansea scores those three was previously Dack was dropping in to support Evans and Smallwood, and when Graham went off he couldn't do that any longer.

 

The problem is that when we make the change we isolate the player who is up front. Agree Dack drops into midfield a lot because with Graham up front he can. But when we make the change we naturally seem to drop deeper and as a result the Dack role goes missing leaving the forward isolated with both Armstrong and Brereton wide. Pushing Bereton ot wide meant Reid moving inside alongside Evans and Smallwood but in very few cases did they get forward to support Dack. Surely if we are going to play this way then both Armstrong and Brereton need to be narrower to give Dack some help.

[Stuart]

13 minutes ago, dingles staying down 4ever said:

Agree we need another No.9 but there are not many players I've seen that can play that role.

I agree with TM in the fact that Dack has the physical attributes to play the Graham role. He should be harder to knock off the ball than any other player at the club.

What is lacking when Dack is there is someone in the Dack role which is abandoned when Graham goes off. The only time we've come close was the Leeds game when Brereton still went wide and Conway played the No.10 role to start with.

Oh and who is our no.10.....Danny Graham....so maybe Brereton has been signed for the no.10 role..

Yeah, ironic!

But Playing Dack further forward takes away from his game. His has skill on the ball and is an absolute nuisance to midfielders. Right now he looks poor in comparison to Reid, for instance, who is being played wide to accommodate other players. Familiar story. If Dack hadn’t been scoring this season (yeah, if my auntie had...) then he would be getting more criticism. A la Jordan Rhodes if he ever went 2-3 games with a goal.

”The problem with Mowbray” is that he picks his mates. By that I mean he selects “characters” and “attitude” and makes a formation out of them, rather than deciding on a formation or two, and recruiting and selecting players for those roles. That mentality (that players have to be right mentally) will develop a great team spirit - to a point - and that spirit will be enough in 60% of matches. However, when you come up against a quality organised side it won’t be enough - especially if you have injuries. The players playing out of position (Bennett, Brereton, Armstrong, Dack to far forward) will be exposed by opposition specialists. Dack up against midfielders? Ta very much! Up against a couple of centre halves? Not so much. It also means you are relying on the lesser “characters” from the bench which will weaken the team mentally as we bring them on. As has been shown several times this season.

All IMHO of course.

[Rogerb]

8 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

I'm surprised we brought on Rodwell rather than Williams tbh. Then we could have kept Rodwell to tighten up midfield later in the game. Either way losing Lenihan was a big blow.

Also same problem of not being able to retain the ball once Graham went off. Brereton looks like he should be a target man but I see why Mowbrays plays him wide as he drops deep, likes the ball to feet, and seems terrible in the air. I'm just so confused by why we signed him when we have half a dozen people who can do a job on the wing, but only one proper striker.

Anyhow for next game I don't think Mowbray will be devastated, we just need to learn from that experience. Maybe we would have been better to put Armstrong up top when Graham went off and just played the long ball over onto his pace. Hmm. Genuinely don't get what putting Dack up there does for us. You could argue that part of the reason Swansea scores those three was previously Dack was dropping in to support Evans and Smallwood, and when Graham went off he couldn't do that any longer.

 

Williams is left footed would have meant three left footers in the back four making it unbalanced