WBA VS ROVERS - SAT 27TH

[Neal]

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/17008496.tony-mowbray-on-whether-he-feels-rovers-are-a-striker-short/?ref=mac

 

Very rarely i disagree with TM but i can't agree with what he's saying here. We aren't a striker short, he's just being played out wide. The lack of faith in Brereton to come on and step up for Graham i think is going to do a lot of damage to the lad's confidence. He might not be as experienced but he will offer something else different from Graham. Come Saturday, if we're still in the game and he makes the same change i might have to change channel because i can't stomach that substitution, it's painful to watch!

[JacknOry]

2 minutes ago, Neal said:

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/17008496.tony-mowbray-on-whether-he-feels-rovers-are-a-striker-short/?ref=mac

 

Very rarely i disagree with TM but i can't agree with what he's saying here. We aren't a striker short, he's just being played out wide. The lack of faith in Brereton to come on and step up for Graham i think is going to do a lot of damage to the lad's confidence. He might not be as experienced but he will offer something else different from Graham. Come Saturday, if we're still in the game and he makes the same change i might have to change channel because i can't stomach that substitution, it's painful to watch!

It really is baffling tbh. It is like he doesnt even count BB as a striker. He hardly mentions him, preferring to talk about Samuel and Nuttall before him. 

If he was not bought to be a striker, why didnt we buy a striker? Did he really think going into the season with Graham, Samuel and Nuttall would be enough and would have the quality for the Championship? In terms of numbers its enough but I would have serious doubts of the latter two performing at the required level. 

Looks like we just bought a hundred midfielders and stringers (striker/wingers).

[blueboy3333]

13 hours ago, USABlue said:

We all see Rothwell as a player, what is it Mowbary does not like about him.

What he brings, or rather doesn't bring, to the defensive side of the game,  like Chapman, Palmer etc I would imagine.

Mowbray's first thought is defensive: Can this player close down, will they track back, will they work hard and run until they drop. He's repeated it often enough. 

In fairness, he's right. When we are not 'bang at it' as the phrase goes, with our best players on the pitch and all fresh and full of running, we can get picked off quite easily. The question is does Rothwell fit what Mowbray wants or is it still being drilled into him 'on the grass' that he has to run till he drops? 

 

[blueboy3333]

Mogga on BB from the above LT article - "With respect to 19-year-old Ben Brereton he’s not going to go out there and start organising the first line of defence"

And, again, there you have it. Mowbray doesn't trust him defensively. Which begs the question, why pay £7m when we don't normally go above £1m? 

The wider point is Mogga's preferred 1st XI is still full of players he inherited, despite bringing in over 20 new players. His success rate  in the transfer market is fairly poor. 

[Rogerb]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

Mogga on BB from the above LT article - "With respect to 19-year-old Ben Brereton he’s not going to go out there and start organising the first line of defence"

And, again, there you have it. Mowbray doesn't trust him defensively. Which begs the question, why pay £7m when we don't normally go above £1m? 

The wider point is Mogga's preferred 1st XI is still full of players he inherited, despite bringing in over 20 new players. His success rate  in the transfer market is fairly poor. 

Which begs the question whose signing is this?

[tomphil]

Surely asking a young striker supposedly full of eagerness and energy to chase, close down and hassle from the front is not that difficult and actually giving him the opportunity to practise that important side of his game ?

He's copping out with those comments because Dack is pretty useless at that as well when he's left there against a couple of physical centre halves.

We've seen similar odd stuff with Antonsson and Samuel though it's what he does but you have to say it rarely works to great effect he just seems to be using his squad for the sake of it at times but there's not much option when it doesn't actually contain wingers.

[yellowsubmarine]

Seems like we are just hoping Bereton to score a few goals this season, increase his value and maybe sell him for 10 mil and make some quick profit next season.

[JHRover]

Just now, yellowsubmarine said:

Seems like we are just hoping Bereton to score a few goals this season, increase his value and maybe sell him for 10 mil and make some quick profit next season.

Probably correct. All it needs is for him to get 6-7 goals a season for a couple of years and by the time he's 21 or 22 his value will have increased.

[tomphil]

14 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Probably correct. All it needs is for him to get 6-7 goals a season for a couple of years and by the time he's 21 or 22 his value will have increased.

That's why he's here i'm not sure I buy into the long term investment model with him I think it's more about a quick turn around in a couple of seasons. That can be the only real reason the Vs have been persuaded to sanction this.

As said before if he comes really good there's silly money in it if not there's still a chance of money back in a season or two bearing I mind it's instalments etc so no way will 7 million have been shelled out if they sold then. If he just plays a bit part this season like he is doing then scores ten next season the ball is rolling....

[JacknOry]

I agree its more about potential and resale value rather than the here and now. This is slightly concerning though as we are short up top and at the back so we could have done with some signings to cover those areas.

[rigger]

1 hour ago, Rogerb said:

Which begs the question whose signing is this?

Which begs the question, is this the WBA thread

[JacknOry]

Worried about this one tbh. 

They score for fun but let them in for fun too while we concede for fun and struggle to score in open play.

I have a feeling TM will setup to contain again when I feel we should be more adventurous against them. Sit back too much against this lot and they will just get more confident as the game goes ahead as they will see that we are not going to cause them too much at the back. 

I would argue that this is a game to have AA upfront at some point - possibly from the start. His pace will cause them problems on the break and will stop them playing with a high line - just wish his finishing improves.

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

55 minutes ago, yellowsubmarine said:

Seems like we are just hoping Bereton to score a few goals this season, increase his value and maybe sell him for 10 mil and make some quick profit next season.

Yes, that is definitely the beginning and end of the entire plan. 

 

1 hour ago, blueboy3333 said:

Mogga on BB from the above LT article - "With respect to 19-year-old Ben Brereton he’s not going to go out there and start organising the first line of defence"

And, again, there you have it. Mowbray doesn't trust him defensively. Which begs the question, why pay £7m when we don't normally go above £1m? 

The wider point is Mogga's preferred 1st XI is still full of players he inherited, despite bringing in over 20 new players. His success rate  in the transfer market is fairly poor. 

I think it's a fair enough comment. He's a 19 forward, I wouldn't say organising the front line of defence is his main strength. It sounds like he will need to learn though, which is good. 

On having a poor transfer record, can't be having that. He has got us to where we are with around, on average, 5 of his signings in the starting 11. Only 3 glaring fails stand out and he has already moved 2 of them on. I would say the rest have either been a success or the just is still out 

Edited October 26, 2018 by Bigdoggsteel

[arealbrfcfan]

I still think it will be a case of, when he scores he'll probably be off the mark and away. Similar to Dack when he joined.. Maybe WBA is the game

[Leonard Venkhater]

4 hours ago, Rogerb said:

Which begs the question whose signing is this?

Oh don't!...I have been trying to suppress that very worry.....

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

Poor transfer record..?

Dack, Smallwood, Reed, Rothwell, Rodwell, Bell, Armstrong - all current first teamers and Mowbray signings. Can also add Downing, Palmer and Payne who have made contributions. If anything, Brereton is one of the few failures (based on limited appearances).

[BankEnd Rover]

18 hours ago, Neal said:

I don't think it's that he doesn't like him more faith in his 'soldiers' that have gotten him this far. Mowbray talks long term about wanting to play more posession football but leaves our most technically gifted player on the bench. Not a criticism, i understand why he does it but sooner or later he's going to have to break up that Smallwood/Evans partnership for Rothwell to play more retention football because Rothwell is simply a better footballer. Graft will only take you so far, we need more quality to control and win that midfield battle because running ourselves ragged for 60 mins is costing us late goals. I'd rather see players like Richie come on when we're trying to protect a lead. I have every faith in Mowbray to make the right decisions eventually. 

Agree completely! Smallwood & Evans together were good enough for league 1, however It's a different ball game in the division. Smallwood imo is simply not good enough. Yes he gets stuck in but there's no movement from the lad. Watch him closely,  for me he doesn't do enough. Compared to Reed he is very poor.

Rothwell for me has to start! If not Palmer!

[Tom Stinny]

The fact that people are looking at him as a failure already tells you some have a target aimed at his back because of the fee. 

 

Let the lad play in his position and get on with it this rubbish that we are a striker short. In terms of ready made quality yes, but numbers no. I'd certainly put him ahead of Nuttal and Samuel. 

 

Manager signed him so now needs to get him playing to his maximum. Like some have said. Graham and Dack both took a while to get going. No different here.

[chaddyrovers]

4 hours ago, Rogerb said:

Which begs the question whose signing is this?

some people love a conspiracy theory on this board. 

 

 

[JacknOry]

15 minutes ago, magicalmortensleftpeg said:

Poor transfer record..?

Dack, Smallwood, Reed, Rothwell, Rodwell, Bell, Armstrong - all current first teamers and Mowbray signings. Can also add Downing, Palmer and Payne who have made contributions. If anything, Brereton is one of the few failures (based on limited appearances).

I think he was meaning perm signings mainly - loans can always go either way as they are usually youngsters.

I am not going to put BB into any list as of yet as it is still too early to judge, same with Davenport as we are still yet to even see him properly. 

Good: Dack, Smallwood, Rothwell, Rodwell, Bell, Armstrong, Downing (did the job in L1 but not sure he good enough for Championship) 

Good Loanees: Reed, Palmer (tho not featuring at the minute), Payne (didnt do much but was a good option off the bench), Antonnsson (split opinions but got some important goals)

Bad: Caddis, Whittingham, Gladwin, Samuel (mainly for the fee), Hart

Bad Loanees: Harper

Close to being about 50/50 overall which I believe most managers will have similar.

My issue is the positions that have been targeted rather than the personnel themselves. We have players like Rothwell and Palmer that can barely get time on the pitch while we are very light up top and at the back and have no actual wingers. 

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

2 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

I think he was meaning perm signings mainly - loans can always go either way as they are usually youngsters.

I am not going to put BB into any list as of yet as it is still too early to judge, same with Davenport as we are still yet to even see him properly. 

Good: Dack, Smallwood, Rothwell, Rodwell, Bell, Armstrong, Downing (did the job in L1 but not sure he good enough for Championship) 

Good Loanees: Reed, Palmer (tho not featuring at the minute), Payne (didnt do much but was a good option off the bench), Antonnsson (split opinions but got some important goals)

Bad: Caddis, Whittingham, Gladwin, Samuel (mainly for the fee), Hart

Bad Loanees: Harper

Close to being about 50/50 overall which I believe most managers will have similar.

My issue is the positions that have been targeted rather than the personnel themselves. We have players like Rothwell and Palmer that can barely get time on the pitch while we are very light up top and at the back and have no actual wingers. 

That’s 6 players in the bad category and 11 players in the good. I’m being pedantic but it’s more like 70% success. 

Id also say that signing Dack alone (from £700k to now £20m+..?) easily makes up for the likes of Gladwin and Samuel.

[JacknOry]

Just now, magicalmortensleftpeg said:

That’s 6 players in the bad category and 11 players in the good. I’m being pedantic but it’s more like 70% success. 

Id also say that signing Dack alone (from £700k to now £20m+..?) easily makes up for the likes of Gladwin and Samuel.

I was going by perms which is 7 to 6 (which could change depending on how BB and Davenport perform going forward)

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

45 minutes ago, BankEnd Rover said:

Agree completely! Smallwood & Evans together were good enough for league 1, however It's a different ball game in the division. Smallwood imo is simply not good enough. Yes he gets stuck in but there's no movement from the lad. Watch him closely,  for me he doesn't do enough. Compared to Reed he is very poor.

Rothwell for me has to start! If not Palmer!

Evans has been one of the best midfielders in the division so far. His tacking and interception stats are right up there and that is his main function in the team 

[BankEnd Rover]

18 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Evans has been one of the best midfielders in the division so far. His tacking and interception stats are right up there and that is his main function in the team 

Didn't say Evans was bad, i think he's played well. However having him & Smallwood together in that midfield does not work in this league. One or the other (preferably evans) and stick rothwell & palmer there instead.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, BankEnd Rover said:

Didn't say Evans was bad, i think he's played well. However having him & Smallwood together in that midfield does not work in this league. One or the other (preferably evans) and stick rothwell & palmer there instead.

Palmer centre mid? Can't see that. Rothwell perhaps, but my choice would be Rodwell.