Ep 102 - Revisionist Rovers - The Souness Years

[Leonard Venkhater]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I Google searched him and can only find some actor from Sherlock Holmes 

Not forgetting Guy of Gisbourne surely...

[old darwen blue]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I Google searched him and can only find some actor from Sherlock Holmes 

Lol

[oldjamfan1]

14 hours ago, AllRoverAsia said:

 Did Strachan chip in from quite a distance? Without checking that's the image I've got.

Edge of the box I think mate 

[AllRoverAsia]

15 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I have watched the new Sherlock Holmes and a movie with Ian McKellan. Read a few of the books too. Did you watch the new one? Started well, but gone down hill in my humble opinion 

Haven't seen any if made in past few years. I have watched all the old movies and TV series and read quite a lot of the books. Still like the old ones. 

I got addicted to torrents a couple of years ago so have enough stuff to watch for 10 lifetimes, and most is now on YouTube anyway

[Batman.]

Bit of a rewriting of history here isn't there?

He had three terrific seasons, followed by one under par, then left three games into his fifth season? So basically three incredible seasons, and one bad.

His time should be remembered as an overwhelming success, even if he is the type of character that can ruin perceptions very quickly.

Edited November 17, 2018 by Batman.

[Herbie6590]

7 hours ago, Batman. said:

Bit of a rewriting of history here isn't there?

He had three terrific seasons, followed by one under par, then left three games into his fifth season? So basically three incredible seasons, and one bad.

His time should be remembered as an overwhelming success, even if he is the type of character that can ruin perceptions very quickly.

That’s the purpose of the “Revisionist Rovers” pieces in a nutshell. Look back, review, re-assess with the benefit of hindsight come to a conclusion and share your opinion...which may or may not provoke a discussion. 

I’d love for more people to come forward and contribute a theme of their choice & provoke some more discussion... *hint* ??

[Batman.]

1 hour ago, Herbie6590 said:

That’s the purpose of the “Revisionist Rovers” pieces in a nutshell. Look back, review, re-assess with the benefit of hindsight come to a conclusion and share your opinion...which may or may not provoke a discussion. 

I’d love for more people to come forward and contribute a theme of their choice & provoke some more discussion... *hint* ??

I understand the concept and have shared my nutshell analysis. I think you've undercooked the 75 percent positive part of his reign (we were falling like a stone when he took over and would possibly have ended in the old second division... Tony Parkes had already agreed to sell Jansen to Rangers and the place was rotten to the core with egos). He saved us from potential oblivion and without Jack's money where we would have ended is anyone's guess.

He got us promoted, playing some of the best football I've seen at Ewood, got us a major trophy and got us in the top 6.

He should be a Rovers legend by all accounts. The fans have always been bitter towards players and managers who left us for so-called "bigger things," which is a shame, as it's led to most of our recent legends having no lasting ties with the club.

[perthblue02]

On 16/11/2018 at 02:13, AllRoverAsia said:

Basil gave perhaps the finest portrayal of Holmes of all.

 

Agree, bought the remastered collection of the Rathbone Sherlock Holmes  films a few years back, and give them a viewing every 6 months or so. great films considering 12 of the 14  were shot as B movies with a very limited budget. I do like Nigel Bruce's portrayal of Watson, despite it being at odds with the books

[dingles staying down 4ever]

Still maintain Souness' beginning of the end at Ewood was when he lost his trusted right hand man, Phil Boersma. I seem to remember this was down to ill health. 

[AllRoverAsia]

3 hours ago, perthblue02 said:

Agree, bought the remastered collection of the Rathbone Sherlock Holmes  films a few years back, and give them a viewing every 6 months or so. great films considering 12 of the 14  were shot as B movies with a very limited budget. I do like Nigel Bruce's portrayal of Watson, despite it being at odds with the books

Agreed.  I have rewatched old Holmes movies and TV series many times over the years, never boring and always get a new angle on the plots.

On Basil I'm amazed he found the time to play so many games for Rovers with so many other projects on the go. What a trooper!  ?

Edited November 18, 2018 by AllRoverAsia

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Still see 'Rambo' walking his dogs down Witton Park and doing some training.

He did indeed by mistake stop the ball dead for Strachan to chip Gennoe from about 15 yards...the ball seemed to move in slow motion from the BBE.I'm sure Whittle blue posted a link to the game on YouTube....Ewood didn't look as full as I remember on the night!

Souness .....Tugay,Friedel,Hughes,Cole.The young Ewood trinity of Duff,Jansen and Dunn.

Good memories.

[Herbie6590]

On 17/11/2018 at 22:00, Batman. said:

I understand the concept and have shared my nutshell analysis. I think you've undercooked the 75 percent positive part of his reign (we were falling like a stone when he took over and would possibly have ended in the old second division... Tony Parkes had already agreed to sell Jansen to Rangers and the place was rotten to the core with egos). He saved us from potential oblivion and without Jack's money where we would have ended is anyone's guess.

He got us promoted, playing some of the best football I've seen at Ewood, got us a major trophy and got us in the top 6.

He should be a Rovers legend by all accounts. The fans have always been bitter towards players and managers who left us for so-called "bigger things," which is a shame, as it's led to most of our recent legends having no lasting ties with the club.

Do you fancy doing a rebuttal to Michael’s piece ? ?

[Batman.]

1 hour ago, Herbie6590 said:

Do you fancy doing a rebuttal to Michael’s piece ? ?

So we can only comment if we agree, otherwise we'll be greeted with the kind of over-sensitivity I'd expect to find in a school playground?

Fair play to the guy for doing it, I just think he's focused mainly on the negative aspects of Souness' reign, which comparatively speaking were few and far between.

I would go as far as saying if you weren't around during the Souness years, upon listening to the podcast you wouldn't realise what an absolute saviour he was for this club, nor the real magnitude of his achievements here.

If you disagree, participate in a discussion. Otherwise, spare me the "well you have a go then if you don't like it" esque nonsense. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

17 minutes ago, Batman. said:

So we can only comment if we agree, otherwise we'll be greeted with the kind of over-sensitivity I'd expect to find in a school playground?

Fair play to the guy for doing it, I just think he's focused mainly on the negative aspects of Souness' reign, which comparatively speaking were few and far between.

I would go as far as saying if you weren't around during the Souness years, upon listening to the podcast you wouldn't realise what an absolute saviour he was for this club, nor the real magnitude of his achievements here.

If you disagree, participate in a discussion. Otherwise, spare me the "well you have a go then if you don't like it" esque nonsense. 

I am pretty sure you are the one who is being over sensitive. Ian was asking a genuine question. 

[Batman.]

8 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I am pretty sure you are the one who is being over sensitive. Ian was asking a genuine question. 

If so, I apologise. I read it as "you have a go then, knobhead" mainly due to the emoticon.

[oldjamfan1]

16 minutes ago, Batman. said:

If so, I apologise. I read it as "you have a go then, knobhead" mainly due to the emoticon.

I agree with your view of Souness as being a vital appointment in our recent history. He did an amazing job for the vast majority of his time as manager and I do think he gets a bum deal when compared to - say - Sparky.

I must admit I didn't think the suggestion that you do a counter-piece was anything to get worked up about but I can see how you might have thought that.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Souness achievements at Rovers far above those of Hughes imo.

[Batman.]

17 minutes ago, SIMON GARNERS 194 said:

Souness achievements at Rovers far above those of Hughes imo.

Without a doubt. I would even say that the football under Souness was far better, without being critical of Hughes' style.

Duff, Dunn, Jansen, Cole and Tugay were a dream to watch together, and even people like Gillespie were chipping in with some really positive football. The defence was stroke inducing at times, but Short and Berg were great performers for us (Taylor and Nils-Eric not so much), and it was Souness who brought it Neill, who was a fantastic player for us. Thompson was a superb signing until his injury (he was phenomenal in fact, and I think he even got an England call up?). I even remember Alan Mahon being a great signing for a couple of years. 

Souness also deserves all the credit for Friedel. I thought he had cost us promotion bringing in Friedel for Kelly/ Filan, but we all know how that ended.

It may well have been a "perfect storm," as stated in the original podcast (the rest of his managerial career suggests as much), but it was the most enjoyable time for me post title winning era. He should go down as a hero really, but unfortunately he doesn't seem to have done. Quite why, I'm not so sure...

[Stuart]

1 hour ago, Batman. said:

Without a doubt. I would even say that the football under Souness was far better, without being critical of Hughes' style.

Duff, Dunn, Jansen, Cole and Tugay were a dream to watch together, and even people like Gillespie were chipping in with some really positive football. The defence was stroke inducing at times, but Short and Berg were great performers for us (Taylor and Nils-Eric not so much), and it was Souness who brought it Neill, who was a fantastic player for us. Thompson was a superb signing until his injury (he was phenomenal in fact, and I think he even got an England call up?). I even remember Alan Mahon being a great signing for a couple of years. 

Souness also deserves all the credit for Friedel. I thought he had cost us promotion bringing in Friedel for Kelly/ Filan, but we all know how that ended.

It may well have been a "perfect storm," as stated in the original podcast (the rest of his managerial career suggests as much), but it was the most enjoyable time for me post title winning era. He should go down as a hero really, but unfortunately he doesn't seem to have done. Quite why, I'm not so sure...

Possibly because he fell out with Dunn and left when we were on our arses? Or because he ended up losing the dressing room? Bemoaning is getting into the UEFA Cup?

But I completely agree. Souness was a breath of fresh air at Rovers, who brought in some great players - including Mark Hughes himself.

He should never have sighed Dwight Yorke. He ruined Andy Cole for us. Jansen getting injured also didn’t help his cause.

Great times.

[JacknOry]

Seems odd to say it but I actually thought the team we had under Souness was more exciting than our title winning one. 

[Batman.]

1 minute ago, Stuart said:

Possibly because he fell out with Dunn and left when we were on our arses? Or because he ended up losing the dressing room? Bemoaning is getting into the UEFA Cup?

But I completely agree. Souness was a breath of fresh air at Rovers, who brought in some great players - including Mark Hughes himself.

He should never have sighed Dwight Yorke. He ruined Andy Cole for us. Jansen getting injured also didn’t help his cause.

Great times.

I completely side with Souness over the Dunn issue. I cannot believe Dunn is considered a "Rovers Legend" by some. Goes to show that the fans are incredibly swayed by perceived loyalty (and locality) rather than actual contribution. Dunn was a waster, and never loved the club enough to ensure he was in prime physical condition to represent it to the best of his ability. If I was compiling a list of best players I've seen playing for Rovers, he wouldn't even make the top 30 odd. Also, Rovers fans booed him when he first came back with Birmingham, so it was clear who they sided initially with (although to be fair they generally mindlessly boo any player who left us, no matter what the circumstances were nor their previous contribution to the club, with the exception of Matt Jansen).

Souness was a loose cannon, and some of his actions in his last season were nothing short of ridiculous, not least the infamous tackle on Yorke. I also agree that his attitude towards the UEFA Cup was frustrating and borderline condescending, as realistically it was the pinnacle for us at that moment in time.

However, none of this this would ever overshadow moments like those we experienced in the other three seasons (both Burnley victories, Bolton thrashing at their place, Deepdale, League Cup, and pretty much the entire season afterwards finishing with the mauling of Spurs on their own patch).

Shame we can't welcome people like Souness back to the club just to give us a lift and a well deserved round of applause for all of the great memories. It'd be great if we could still sing his name along with those of many others that have given us great times in the past.

[blueboy3333]

Harsh on Dunn. He was brilliant in our promotion winning season. Souness then tried to turn him into something he wasn't. A better man-manager would have got more out of Dunn.

[Oldgregg86]

I love dunny. I don't care what happened off the field he was a joy on it. He helped us get promoted, win a trophy and get us into Europe and scored against the dingles. He has spoke to me several times after games and at youth games etc and always had time for me and is a really nice person. Everyone has personal issues whether it be at home or with managers at work etc. He should be judged by what he did on the pitch. Not many players in my lifetime have picked a ball up and beat two or three players and smashed it in the net. He should be celebrated and the fact he is one of our own just makes it even sweeter

[Batman.]

18 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Harsh on Dunn. He was brilliant in our promotion winning season. Souness then tried to turn him into something he wasn't. A better man-manager would have got more out of Dunn.

Neither Bruce, Hughes nor Allardyce got a great deal out of him. He was fantastic during our promotion season, but his career was a complete waste of talent. He ranged from mediocre to awful from the age of 24 onwards (more or less), so I wouldn't be celebrating him too much. I take far more pride in a player like Duff, who was phenomenal for us and went on to be a key player for the best team in the country, winning the top prizes along the way.

That's what Dunn would have done had he had more respect for his own career and the clubs employing him.

My frustration with Dunn is born out of wanting him to have achieved what he should have, and for him to be a legend of the club. However, were he from a different part of the country, nobody would talk about him. Brett Emerton had a better Rovers career than Dunn.

[Herbie6590]

For absolute clarity @Batman. I have made several appeals on here for people to contribute items to the podcast. Your robust & vigorous defence of Souness is exactly the sort of discussion that I think would make for an interesting article. 

By badging the pieces “Revisionist Rovers” & explaining that your reaction is exactly the sort of reaction we hoped to get as it creates an interesting debate, I thought my intentions were transparent. Seemingly not. 

My use of the “thinking face” emoji was my attempt to see if you would give it some thought, no more, no less.