Rovers away at Preston NE: 24th November 2018 - 3pm. The match thread.

[Tom Stinny]

“In my opinion, he’s 33 and hadn’t done any training and the right thing to do in my opinion was to leave him on the bench and not expose him to try and get 90 minutes"

 

That right there pissed me off. The only thing that wasn't right today was how you didn't go out 100% for a result today for the fans who travelled. Fuck if he wasn't ready. Play your other striker and give it a go. 

 

He wants nailing for that comment completely.

[Mercer]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

I agree up to a point but PNE haven't spent £7m on a sub. I'm not sure how many windows he'll get with that amount of investment. PNE do it on a shoestring in comparison.

We also never look that well coached to me as an attacking unit. We are hard working but I don't believe we can't play better football. Again, do PNE have much better players than us? 

Perhaps therein lies the rub!  IMV, Venus and Lowe are two of the least impressive members of staff I've seen assisting Rovers' managers.  Personally, not impressed how they go about their work pre match or from what they contribute from the bench and from what I saw of Lowe in the Academy, he's out of his depth.

[arbitro]

Tinker Tony, Meddler Mowbray. He just over complicates things by trying to be too smart. I defy anyone to say with certainty what formation we played and where Dack and Palmer were supposed to be playing. Mowbray is right about being defensively poor but I thought we were weak all over the pitch in the first half and made Preston look a lot better than they actually are. This false nine bollocks is nonsense particularly when we have a really good nine on the bench and a £7m striker who can't get a start.

Once again we started slow. There has to be something wrong somewhere as it happens too often. Preston didn't have to work particularly hard for their goals, it was our poor play that contributed to them. Over the last few weeks Dack has been poor and today he gave arguably his worst performance in a Rovers shirt. Almost in the same category were Palmer, Armstrong, Williams, Smallwood and Lenihan. I honestly fear another drubbing on Wednesday if Mowbray tinkers and plays a clever formation which just doesn't suit some of our players. Despite several poor performances today though the buck stops with Mowbray.

I still want to get to 50 points as our priority. If there are any more performances like today I fear it could be a long time coming.

[tomphil]

Just now, Mercer said:

Perhaps therein lies the rub!  IMV, Venus and Lowe are two of the least impressive members of staff I've seen assisting Rovers' managers.  Personally, not impressed how they go about their work pre match or from what they contribute from the bench and from what I saw of Lowe in the Academy, he's out of his depth.

Lowe just comes across as the clipboard, cones and bibs man, every club probably has one i'm not sure if he makes much difference good or bad.

Venus comes with conflicting reviews I have heard he works hard one on one with players but don't know how true that is.

Overall the three of them have done ok so far but whoever is responsible for keep messing things about and trying to be too clever has to shoulder some it today.

[RevidgeBlue]

Not entirely surprised by this performance and result as imo the manager has been picking the erong starting line up for a while and been attempting to put square pegs in round holes, We've also been playing fairly poorly on the whole but scraping results up until today.  That can't go on forever.

I'm not sure if Dack thinks he's moving in January but he's been really poor for a couple of months and looks overweight to me. Armstrong has been generally very disappointing this season and would no doubt prefer to play down the middle. Brereton also needs a chance playing down the middle and will never progress until some faith is shown in him and he gets said chance. Williams is an absolute liability when playing at LB and I've no idea what the manager sees in him in that position. The team desperately lacks pace and width on either flank and the bizarre experiment of starting without an out and out striker be it Dack or Palmer simply doesn't work.

Apart from that it wasn't too bad......?

[LDRover]

Not read back through the comments but , even though I feel Nyambe played well going forward, yet again an opposing manager targetted him as a weakness and got joy from it.

Further to that I thought Lenihan's distribution was abysmal and our desire at 2-1 was very disappointing. They were there for the taking and we never even laid a glove on them.

[Mercer]

8 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Lowe just comes across as the clipboard, cones and bibs man, every club probably has one i'm not sure if he makes much difference good or bad.

Venus comes with conflicting reviews I have heard he works hard one on one with players but don't know how true that is.

Overall the three of them have done ok so far but whoever is responsible for keep messing things about and trying to be too clever has to shoulder some it today.

Find Lowe so uninspiring.

Any coach can work hard one on one but if it's the blind leading the blind......................

Suspect these two aren't strong enough or bright enough to give Mowbray the type of feedback he needs.

Always remember McClaren one match at Ewood when he was Fergie's number 2.  He put a pre match session on that was electric, made you sit up and take notice, and you could seen the way the United players responded.  Sadly, I think we look very amateurish and uninspiring in comparison.

[tomphil]

Just now, Mercer said:

Find Lowe so uninspiring.

Any coach can work hard one on one but if it's the blind leading the blind......................

Suspect these two aren't strong enough or bright enough to give Mowbray the type of feedback he needs.

Always remember McClaren one match at Ewood when he was Fergie's number 2.  He put a pre match session on that was electric, made you sit up and take notice, and you could seen the way the United players responded.  Sadly, I think we look very amateurish and uninspiring in comparison.

Yes Fergie always seemed to put great stock into having a very good number two whereas a lot of other gaffers just bring in their pals .... or whoever an agent provides ?

[Stuart]

11 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

What the manager is saying in public I hope is different to his actual thoughts on what this team can go on to achieve.

Walking from the ground we were generally in agreement that they are a hard working bunch of players, but mid table is the limit of our ambition with them. And that’s fine as a promoted team.

Mowbray has talked about this being a project that will take a few windows and it was the owners that needed reining back in the summer. Let’s hope they are still on board as we need to accept that around half the team needs upgrading if we want to progress.

I honestly think that this is Mowbray’s limit.

His Summer recruitment looks like poor business, with the re-signing of existing players being the main ones. Brereton looks like a hugely expensive mistake - already - and he has pretty much binned the youngsters that were coming through last season.

He is dining out on last season’s success but is looking more and more out of ideas and desperately trying to find the magic solution. Dack needs dropping but we have nobody who can put the ball in the net without him.

How long before he starts blaming the fans? The half season ticket sales are already being lined up as fans not being on side. It’s worrying times and Mowbray needs to do extremely well in the January window just to keep us mid table - hardly a convincing pitch to any proven Championship quality out there - which is what we need.

[Neal]

Furious. A lot of organising and messing around for someone to watch my son so I could go today. Only to turn up and see the same old tactics that haven't worked. I saw on twitter he was blaming the defending, fair enough but perhaps blame yourself Tony? Making things far too complicated than they need be. Football doesn't have to be difficult, play your best players and play them in their best positions, when something isn't working, change it. Don't stick with it week after week whilst it costs us points. We lost the game before we kicked off today, you can tell the players don't like or understand these tactics and neither do the fans. Everyone was saying the same today, we were all bewildered. 

 

I wouldn't have many other blokes managing us but I have been pretty dissapointed by him not just tactically but by a couple of things he's said in the media too recently. He said about us spending enough money on players so that we should expect to beat teams like Derby and Leeds (words to that effect) and I'm sorry but it's not all about money in this league. Look at Burnley and Cardiff, they're well managed, they get the best out of what they have, they got the right recruitment, not throwing tons of money about dangerously like Forest. I admire his ambition but he needs to show more faith in his current signings. Which brings me on to the game.... 

 

My dad and I felt sorry for Reed today, he and Nyambe were the only ones who really turned up. The rest were poor, Graham and Rothwell gave us something we should have had from the start. Why Rothwell isn't starting I have no idea, we always look so much better with him in the side, considering we actually own him (unlike Palmer), perhaps we should be giving him more game time? Fair enough, he did almost cost us with a stray pass but the lad needs minutes get his awareness up to scratch. Preston will go away thinking they're brilliant when we can be so much better, I can accept it when another team is better than us but not when the team and the manager let everyone and themselves down in the way they did today.

 

I can see us running into a run of bad form, this happens in football but this seems totally self inflicted from tinkering Tony. In a week/month were attendances have been a hot topic, today doesnt really do us any favours. I was thinking about what I need to do to attend the Wigan game but this nonsense has made my mind up and I'll spend it with my son instead. 

 

 

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Stuart said:

I honestly think that this is Mowbray’s limit.

His Summer recruitment looks like poor business, with the re-signing of existing players being the main ones. Brereton looks like a hugely expensive mistake - already - and he has pretty much binned the youngsters that were coming through last season.

He is dining out on last season’s success but is looking more and more out of ideas and desperately trying to find the magic solution. Dack needs dropping but we have nobody who can put the ball in the net without him.

How long before he starts blaming the fans? The half season ticket sales are already being lined up as fans not being on side. It’s worrying times and Mowbray needs to do extremely well in the January window just to keep us mid table - hardly a convincing pitch to any proven Championship quality out there - which is what we need.

I also believe this as good as it gets with Mowbray. I think he's a 1.5 points a game manager at his level with the way he plays these days. Mid-table is not to be sniffed it at but the stakes (and expectations) have also been raised somewhat with the BB signing. If the owners feel the same then Mogga may come under pressure if we start slipping down the league and his expensive signing still only gets 10 minutes here and there.

My main gripe is this. By his own admission Mogga thinks Graham can only play 1 game in two. Grahams body may dictate the same. Graham is the central focus of everything we do as an attacking unit. We are hopeless without him.  So why on earth did we not sign cover in the summer and instead spent £7m on a striker who Mogga doesn't trust? It smacks of very poor planning. The signings of Rothwell, Palmer, and Armstrong are also looking poorer by the week. Playing Palmer up top is something even Coyle wouldn't do. 

 

 

[tomphil]

100% agree on the Graham situation it's something most saw coming midway last season, half fit or tired a guy like him will score goals in league one just by standing about on the pitch at times, this league no way you have to be fit.

Poor the failure to address this regardless of the Brereton signing, a loan in would've helped it and they could've continued the softly softly approach with Ben.  Samuel getting injured didn't help of course but using Dack as the number one back up was never going to work every week.

Think in regards to TM he is a safety first manager but his main drawback is the over egging things in terms of changes all fans of his other clubs will point to this. Every so often it does work of course but also it'll come off the rails now and again.

Would be nice to have a few comfortable 2 nil wins now and again though !

 

 

Edited November 24, 2018 by tomphil

[den]

That statue of a bloke falling over in a puddle is crap as well.

[Gav]

Everyone's dissapointed with today's result, but claiming this is Mowbrays limit is knee jerk at best.

If you look at the current side, it's nowhere near good enough to go up, we need 2/3 solid performers with a bit of quality thrown in and far more experience at this level.

The Bereton signing is very much Venkyesq, seems bonkers, doesn't make sense, but he's here and could well turn out to be a fantastic signing, or we've been had AGAIN, time will tell.

The problem with sections of this site is most think we're going up every season, a few wins and some are booking hotels for Wembley, when in reality we're a season or 2 away from getting to that level if we keep progressing and the more considered posters realise that.

We're having a good season, getting better on and off the pitch, so keep the faith, we are streets ahead of where we've been in recent times. 

Edited November 24, 2018 by Gav

[LeftWinger]

Well I was feeling pretty fed up after watching that, so glad I came on here to cheer myself up ?

[RevidgeBlue]

16 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

I also believe this as good as it gets with Mowbray. I think he's a 1.5 points a game manager at his level with the way he plays these days. Mid-table is not to be sniffed it at but the stakes (and expectations) have also been raised somewhat with the BB signing. If the owners feel the same then Mogga may come under pressure if we start slipping down the league and his expensive signing still only gets 10 minutes here and there.

My main gripe is this. By his own admission Mogga thinks Graham can only play 1 game in two. Grahams body may dictate the same. Graham is the central focus of everything we do as an attacking unit. We are hopeless without him.  So why on earth did we not sign cover in the summer and instead spent £7m on a striker who Mogga doesn't trust? It smacks of very poor planning. The signings of Rothwell, Palmer, and Armstrong are also looking poorer by the week. Playing Palmer up top is something even Coyle wouldn't do. 

 

 

Not sure the quality of the signings is so much of an issue per se, the problem for me is that TM views them as merely bit part additions to the squad that won promotion, and is too loyal to the llikes of Graham, Conway, Bennett, Evans etc. There's no room for loyalty in football and if the manager feels the team can be improved by bringing in someone else then that's what should happen like when King Kenny sacrificed Speedie for Shearer. What we ireally needed were two or three big signings to go straight into and improve the team and replace the likes of Graham, Evans Bennett etc instead of a bit of messing about around the edges to add to the squad depth.

That said our current position isn't terrible but I hope that isn't as good as it gets this season and that we don't start to slide backwards at a rate of knots.

[Oldgregg86]

I echo both your sentiments. We all love Tony the man. I'd drink with him til I couldn't stand up and listen to his football stories and develop a man crush as he serenaded me with careless whisper on his saxophone but a footballing genius he ain't. 

His tactics and line ups are bizarre to woeful. The way he's got the fans back on board and made the club feel something like are own again, or at least something we want to be apart of and invest our time, money and energy isn't to be underestimated. He has done tremendous in this area.

He has shipped out the dross and brought in some good signings, one excellent and a few donkeys, as most mangers do. He's brought a good team spirit and got us promoted. All things he rightfully gets his plaudits for.

However , he as manager sets the standards. Those standards are to build a squad capable of achieving promotion. It's early doors and I am by no means at this stage even suggesting he should be sacked. That would be ludicrous. The results in isolation are good/acceptable.

Is he building a squad capable of promotion ? So far he has recruited to many players in the same positions and left us severely short in others. Whilst you can argue players like Armstrong undoubtedly have the talent is he getting the best out of these players.

Dack will inevitably leave before the build is complete. How long will brereton and rothwell watch on from the bench whilst players play out of position. How far does Tony's loyalty stretch , ie a ruthless manager doesn't keep Conway when building for the future, will this be the case with other ageing players as time goes on. 

Whilst strikers get frustrated playing on the wing, good young players will get frustrated at not getting game time. The lack if belief in brereton can't be doing his confidence any good. We are on a high after last year. It won't take long or much to undo all that hard work he has put in so far. 

So whilst he has the backing of players, fans and board alike now all of the above will only take you so far . Imo that is the lofty heights  we are currently occupying His over complicated tactics and what seems like an inability to spot his own flaws, sticking with players and formations/tactics could prove to be ours and his ultimate downfall.

I hope he has what it takes to get us there but I feel like his positive attributes are what have taken us from rock bottom to where we are today. The attributes he lacks are what are needed to take us to the next level and sadly I don't believe he has what is required. In time , I hope I'm wrong, but I fear I will be proven right and he will fall short. 

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Gav said:

but claiming this is Mowbrays limit is knee jerk at best.

I've been saying since early season he's a 1.5ppg type of manager. I said 14th at the beginning of the season and I think that's a decent guess. I don't think he'd take us up with the best players in the league. He's too cautious and  concerned with the opposition for that,  and too obsessed with formations and tinkering. 

[CP Company Lad]

Leeds won 2-0.

[OldEwoodBlue]

35 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

I also believe this as good as it gets with Mowbray. I think he's a 1.5 points a game manager at his level with the way he plays these days. Mid-table is not to be sniffed it at but the stakes (and expectations) have also been raised somewhat with the BB signing. If the owners feel the same then Mogga may come under pressure if we start slipping down the league and his expensive signing still only gets 10 minutes here and there.

My main gripe is this. By his own admission Mogga thinks Graham can only play 1 game in two. Grahams body may dictate the same. Graham is the central focus of everything we do as an attacking unit. We are hopeless without him.  So why on earth did we not sign cover in the summer and instead spent £7m on a striker who Mogga doesn't trust? It smacks of very poor planning. The signings of Rothwell, Palmer, and Armstrong are also looking poorer by the week. Playing Palmer up top is something even Coyle wouldn't do. 

 

 

Agreed we are hopeless without DG.

Palmer is rubbish and should go back.

This is the big fear that Mowbray is exactly as you say (I agree) and after a few seasons of the same, it will be Gaz all over again... and then the circus kicks off and we are back to ground zero

[Oldgregg86]

3 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

I've been saying since early season he's a 1.5ppg type of manager. I said 14th at the beginning of the season and I think that's a decent guess. I don't think he'd take us up with the best players in the league. He's too cautious and  concerned with the opposition for that,  and too obsessed with formations and tinkering. 

That's what I was trying to say but somehow failed to mention any of that in my 2000 word post ?

[4000Holes]

Just now, RevidgeBlue said:

Not sure the quality of the signings is so much of an issue per se, the problem for me is that TM views them as merely bit part additions to the squad that won promotion, and is too loyal to the llikes of Graham, Conway, Bennett, Evans etc. There's no room for loyalty in football and if the manager feels the team can be improved by bringing in someone else then that's what should happen like when King Kenny sacrificed Speedie for Shearer. What we ireally needed were two or three big signings to go straight into and improve the team and replace the likes of Graham, Evans Bennett etc instead of a bit of messing about around the edges to add to the squad depth.

That said our current position isn't terrible but I hope that isn't as good as it gets this season and that we don't start to slide backwards at a rate of knots.

Yes but game against Wigan will tell.  We have been poor today, lacklustre to say the least and initial team selection did not help but having said that we got caught early which didn't help.  Our talisman, "Dack" is going through a patch, as all players do at times.  Wigan is now a big one and we will see how big Mowbray is with his team selection bearing in mind Wigan are not in the greatest form.  I fully expect Dack to be part of the starting 11 but if he plays as he has the last few games, I expect that Mowbray will bring him off after 45 to 55 mins.  This will determine how big Mowbray is.  If he bottles because of potential future transfer fee, then we will go backwards at a rate of knots! 

[Angry_Pirate]

The frustration is that they fully deserved the win yet only had 39% possession, 6 shots, 4 shots on target and scored 4 goals...(85mins stats)

1. Lenihan came charging for a ball he was never gonna win and got schooled. Good finish.

2. Poor pass from Nyambe and nice move after, Robinson showed good speed, strength and composure.

3. Williams got turned FAR too easily... however it's actually offside as when the PNE lad shoots before it deflects off Nyambe, Moult is offside and a deflection is still the same phase of play. 2-1.

Add to that that Brereton was very much onside for 3-2 and it could have been very (undeservedly) different had one of those calls been correctly given.

4. Lenihan (and others) defended poor, Raya actually maybe had a chance at that one too! 

Williams, Palmer, Smallwood out for Wednesday please... maybe a striker?

I got the "Wigan 5-3 - Santa Hattrick" feeling as soon as the game started... mad thing is their keeper made 2 worldies in the 1st, we have a goal wrongfully disallowed and we still fully deserved to lose by a few.

Try again please Tony.

[CP Company Lad]

I don't think you saw that coming...pants pulled down et al.

Edited November 24, 2018 by CP Company Lad

[RevidgeBlue]

2 minutes ago, Franky said:

Agreed we are hopeless without DG.

Palmer is rubbish and should go back.

This is the big fear that Mowbray is exactly as you say (I agree) and after a few seasons of the same, it will be Gaz all over again... and then the circus kicks off and we are back to ground zero

I'd say we are still much the same as last year. An ordinary set of players then there is Dack. If he's on his game he can make a fairly ordinary bunch appear better than they are. If he's off it, which he has been for a while, we usually look hopeless.

I'd also disagree re: Palmer. I think potentially he looks a very handy player indeed, unfortunately TM appears unable or unwilling to place much faith in any of his summer signings apart from Reed.