Rovers away at Preston NE: 24th November 2018 - 3pm. The match thread.

[Ewood Ace]

53 minutes ago, RV Blue said:

4 likes on this load of nonsense, astounding lack of footballing knowledge.

Williams was poor yesterday but in his 2 and a half years here he has been a steady performer. And no matter how bad Williams was yesterday it doesn't make Bell a better player.

[BankEnd Rover]

Looking back at the highlights we had more chances than I thought! I thought we played okay just defence was awful!

Edited November 25, 2018 by BankEnd Rover

[JHRover]

The game plan was out the window after 2 minutes. I'm sure had we weathered their fast start and got to 15 minutes at 0-0 then we'd have seen a different final score, if not result.

The trouble with us is that when Mowbray's initial plan fails and he has to change things it can unravel even more. Happened at Bristol when we were actually playing well and were deservedly ahead, they came back and got their noses in front and so Mowbray went gung ho and we were pasted. 

Yesterday it was very disappointing that we didn't threaten more after getting the goal back so soon in the second half. As someone else has said it was almost as though we sat back having scored rather than gone at them for a 2nd. They engineered a lull in the game with their two 'injuries' that took all the tempo away and ran a good 5 minutes off the clock. Then when the game eventually restarted they were fresh and quick to it whilst we were stood around looking half asleep.

[Mercer]

1 hour ago, K-Hod said:

The most disappointing thing for me is that the PNE fan posted that they were susceptible to high balls into the box, so why on earth did our manager not instruct the players pepper them with them??

Poor game prep - it's not just Mowbray who worries me but also the calibre of personnel who support him.

[G Somerset Rover]

2 hours ago, JHRover said:

I'm finding it increasingly difficult to accept that we've supposedly spent £7 million on a centre forward from Forest, but are going into matches with no CF on the pitch because inevitably Danny Graham can't play every week. A blind man would have seen a problem with Graham coming sooner or later. Why with this apparent huge pot of cash available did be invest it all into a player who he point blank refuses to start in a game, preferring instead to meddle with the team and come up with some bizarre line up in Graham's absence?

Any other Championship club who has allegedly spent £7 million on a player only to refuse to start him even when short on numbers and depth?

Just what is going on? Look around and other clubs with less cash and resources than us have assembled squads with depth who can cope with injuries e.g. Preston. We're turning up and starting with no striker and have a 7 million lad sat on the bench only allowed to play for 20 minutes in a wide position.

Utterly bizarre and really when you sit and think about it something just doesn't feel right about that signing. The way it came about, the money involved and what has happened since. 

Aye. Something doesn’t add up for me too. He’s admitted to Sharpe that ‘we’re a striker short’ so why on earth wasn’t it rectified before the end of the window and spunked all on this lad who he plays out wide - if at all?! Very very fishy or just rank bad management and recruitment.

Edited November 25, 2018 by Gavlar Somerset Rover!

[blueboy3333]

"It was possibly that length of build-up that made Tony Mowbray possibly over think his approach having studied the opposition so much during the international break" 

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/17254231.preston-north-end-4-blackburn-1-match-verdict/?ref=mr&lp=8

Not for the 1st time Mowbray's fear of the opposition has led him to self-sabotage. It was the same last season. It's not like we are playing Man City. 

[DE.]

1 hour ago, K-Hod said:

The most disappointing thing for me is that the PNE fan posted that they were susceptible to high balls into the box, so why on earth did our manager not instruct the players pepper them with them??

We seem to be trying to play a passing game rather than a long-ball game - which would be fine if most of our goals this season hadn't come from set-pieces and crosses. We don't score from open play very often and when you watch us it's clear that if Dack isn't at it we have no creative players on the pitch capable of producing anything worthwhile. The rare times we do players like Armstrong and Rothwell inevitably miss, so unless a chance falls to Graham or Dack chances are we aren't scoring from open play. You'll get the odd worlie - even Lowe scored a 25 yarder once - but by and large, especially with our defending, it isn't going to be enough.

With all of that said, does it make any sense to play a system with no striker? Nope. So Mowbray really needs to be asked to explain this nonsense. I'd love to hear the rationale behind a system which, on the surface, appears to be completely self-defeating on the basis of the players we have and the goals we've scored so far this season. 

[Sparks Rover]

36 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Williams was poor yesterday but in his 2 and a half years here he has been a steady performer. And no matter how bad Williams was yesterday it doesn't make Bell a better player.

Williams is L1 or L2.  That right winger breezed past him on numerous occasions. Bell would have been a more difficult prospect as he gets forward and pushes the opponent back.  Williams cant kick the ball properly under pressure,  he just chips it into no man's land.  One if the worst performances I've seen, on a par with Ward last season....should never play again this season.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

Williams is L1 or L2.  That right winger breezed past him on numerous occasions. Bell would have been a more difficult prospect as he gets forward and pushes the opponent back.  Williams cant kick the ball properly under pressure,  he just chips it into no man's land.  One if the worst performances I've seen, on a par with Ward last season....should never play again this season.

He's an international for the 33rd ranked team in the world (just below Iran). Show some respect. 

[G Somerset Rover]

Just now, DE. said:

With all of that said, does it make any sense to play a system with no striker? Nope. So Mowbray really needs to be asked to explain this nonsense. I'd love to hear the rationale behind a system which, on the surface, appears to be completely self-defeating on the basis of the players we have and the goals we've scored so far this season. 

Sharpe appears to have let him off the hook with the ‘Graham wasn’t quite fit’ nonsense so don’t expect any further rationale any time soon. We all know the big issue here is why do we have no bloody alternative.

[Ewood Ace]

1 minute ago, Sparks Rover said:

Williams is L1 or L2.  That right winger breezed past him on numerous occasions. Bell would have been a more difficult prospect as he gets forward and pushes the opponent back.  Williams cant kick the ball properly under pressure,  he just chips it into no man's land.  One if the worst performances I've seen, on a par with Ward last season....should never play again this season.

I can't think of one game where Bell has gone forward and pushed the opponents back. He usually gets into the opposition half and instead of driving at them either comes inside onto his weaker right foot or passes  sideways. In his time here I can't remember Bell getting an assist. Bell has also been at fault for plenty of goals this season just of the top of my head one of the Stoke goals, Leeds, West Brom and Rotherham and they are all in the last 10 games.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Ewood Ace said:

I can't think of one game where Bell has gone forward and pushed the opponents back. He usually gets into the opposition half and instead of driving at them either comes inside onto his weaker right foot or passes  sideways. In his time here I can't remember Bell getting an assist. Bell has also been at fault for plenty of goals this season just of the top of my head one of the Stoke goals, Leeds, West Brom and Rotherham and they are all in the last 10 games.

I prefer Williams but LB is certainly a position we should be looking to strengthen. 

[Sparks Rover]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

I prefer Williams but LB is certainly a position we should be looking to strengthen. 

Youd be better off moving nyambe over left so he can cut in and shoot when he attacks...then put young Travis in at RB.  Nyambe is a better player than Williams and Bell and would be ok there....his recovery is great.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

Youd be better off moving nyambe over left so he can cut in and shoot when he attacks...then put young Travis in at RB.  Nyambe is a better player than Williams and Bell and would be ok there....his recovery is great.

He's no left foot. We'd be better off investing in a quality LB.

[Mattyblue]

Williams is a decent centre half, bang average left back, as is Bell. 

Full back needed in January.

[Sparks Rover]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

He's no left foot. We'd be better off investing in a quality LB.

I'm thinking for midweek.  Williams has to be dropped for that performance 

 

Ryan gets his body around, so he would do fine at LB

[roversfan99]

18 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Dack is undoubtedly believing his own hype and who could blame him? Never mind  sky courting him, you would swear from the clubs official social media he is Messi and is basically carrying everyone else. Whereas in reality he hasn't played well this year. Yep, he's scored a good few, can't take that away from him, but he ain't doing much else. Where are the neat touched from last year? Where are the assists? 

He needs to keep off the TV, knuckle down and the official social media need to get out of his ass. 

I think this is a very big, unfair assumption to make to presume that the primary reason for his lack of involvement is off the field hype, being on TV etc.

Firstly, I think that your comments under-appreciate the importance of the goals, which have always been the main part of his game. Even last season, he wasnt dominating possession every week.

Our tactics are not conducive to our attacking players. We have played the most long balls in the league. That doesnt seem to change much regardless of whether Graham plays or not. If you play Dack and Palmer together centrally with no focal point, you are not playing to his strengths. Mowbray has to take the flak for playing Dack as a striker in a role that totally doesnt suit him, and learn from it and not be too stubborn to stop resorting to it whenever Graham isnt fit enough to start. He has spent 9m on strikers in the summer, he has no excuse.

As others have said, he has contributed to the majority of our goals so wed be lost without him.

14 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

very disappointed result today and the performance by some were nothing short of pathetic. 

Williams and Armstrong at fault for the 1st goal, Nyambe too slow for the 2nd goal, Williams so easy turned for the 3rd goal. 

Lenihan and Williams so poor today. How anyone can say Williams is better than Bell needs to watch Williams full performance today. He was useless. 

Even tho we were 2 down 1st half, we still have 4 great chances to score and we should have gone in level at half time. I was pleased with the Graham sub and it brought a positive outcome by his goal, but we didn't kick on enough for me. Thought Mowbray was far too slow taking Armstrong and Palmer who were truly awful. Dack had 2 or 3 chances he should have done better. His I have are getting worse and teams are marking so tightly and not allow him any time of the ball. Ive suggested him playing wide for a bit during the game to give him more room, cos he is being too easy marked for me. 

on the Formation and team selection, I have no idea why he played it or picked that team. I understand why he playing it and how but I disagree with it. 

Alot of police in the town centre before and after the game with a few kick offs between fans. some scenes were awful and total unnecessary to see and witnessed. Came home at 6.30pm cos of it. 

Bell has been consistently bad all season, both of our left backs are crap, and thats the only area of the defence where we have back up.

Fair play to disagreeing with the team selection, but going one further, I don't understand how you can even understand it. We are the team most reliant on long balls in the league. To play Palmer and Dack up front (essentially) is stupidity from Mowbray. Why spend 9m on strikers and not play them there?

12 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

A bad day at the office for all concerned - manager and players.  We move on to the next match but today underlined the points made by Mowbray on Thursday about the squad needing to be strengthened.  I'm afraid I can't join the usual BRFCS doom and gloom when I look at a league table that shows us tenth with just four defeats out of 18.  We've had a pretty decent season so far for a newly promoted club and one defeat - disappointing as it was - doesn't really change that.  

A mid-table finish would be a decent platform on which to build - which was what most on here hoped for before a ball was kicked last August.

I think today was a perfect illustration that in this League any team can beat any other team on the day.  It's what makes the Championship such an interesting League.  

Why are you unable to judge games in isolation? Our league performance has nothing to do with how we played yesterday, in the Preston away match thread.

If BRFCS is just a pit of "doom and gloom" why do you even bother with it? No need for that comment.

[chaddyrovers]

3 hours ago, arbitro said:

"He came on and made an impact, but I don’t sit here regretting the decisions I made with the team selection".

Mowbray pretty much exonerating himself for his wacky team selection. In the same article he says Graham didn't start as he hasn't really trained for two weeks. He also says Mulgrew had hardly trained too but he started him. There isn't a lot between them in terms of age. Some perverse logic there.

 

I didn't mind the team selected but why not play Armstrong up front and Palmer or Dack from wide left position

I think Mulgrew overall fitness is better and hasn't Graham got a long term knee injury that he plays with?

2 hours ago, JHRover said:

I'm finding it increasingly difficult to accept that we've supposedly spent £7 million on a centre forward from Forest, but are going into matches with no CF on the pitch because inevitably Danny Graham can't play every week. A blind man would have seen a problem with Graham coming sooner or later. Why with this apparent huge pot of cash available did be invest it all into a player who he point blank refuses to start in a game, preferring instead to meddle with the team and come up with some bizarre line up in Graham's absence?

Any other Championship club who has allegedly spent £7 million on a player only to refuse to start him even when short on numbers and depth?

Just what is going on? Look around and other clubs with less cash and resources than us have assembled squads with depth who can cope with injuries e.g. Preston. We're turning up and starting with no striker and have a 7 million lad sat on the bench only allowed to play for 20 minutes in a wide position.

Utterly bizarre and really when you sit and think about it something just doesn't feel right about that signing. The way it came about, the money involved and what has happened since. 

I agree isn't very annoying and difficult to accept not playing a striker when we have 3 strikers. But Mowbray did play this false 9 formation against Liverpool and I did wonder if this was going to Mowbray new thing. 

I feel Mowbray is being far too over cautious about not playing Brereton up front. why? I don't know

1 hour ago, Hasta said:

I must have missed all that as we walked up from, and back to, the Greyfriar calling in most pubs on the way and saw no trouble at all.

Preston fans generally couldn't believe how bad we were after the game.

Admitedly we left at about 87 minutes so didn't stick around for the final whistle. It was a good day apart from 3pm till 5pm.

 

I went twelve tellers then New Fleece Inn then Royal Consort before getting to the ground. no trouble in the pub but its was outside the guild hall. what happened I don't know but just seen as we came out of the Bookies near Guild Hall. 

Yes I left after the 4th goal went in I left and heading back to Preston Town hall 

1 hour ago, Hasta said:

Just watched the sky highlights before I comment on the game as what a horror show of defending that is.

The first two are decent finishes but it's so easy. Nyambe s held his hand up on Twitter for the second. Lenihan get sucked out and fails to win the ball for the opener.

Despite how poor we had been, at 2-1 I fancied us to get something out of the game but Williams was rancid for the third. Had Brereton goal stood immediately after we may still have got the grandstand finish but the offside call ended any hope. I couldn't see how he could be offside at the time but it's not shown on the sky highlights so can't tell for sure.

Poor, poor performance. The decision to leave Graham on the bench has been well covered. I would hope this would comprehensively end Tony's thoughts of doing it again but I'm not holding my breath.

Brereton's goal wasn't offside and the linesman cost us probably. 

If Graham isn't going to start then play Brereton there

48 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Totally embarrassing and not for the first time this season we have folded like a pack of cards. Mowbray trying to over complicate things thinking that he is some sort of tactical genius, really felt sorry for Palmer playing a role that he was clearly foreign to him. It's clear now that we spent £7 million on someone who we thought was a striker but is actually a reserve winger. I could have understood dropping Graham for the Rotherham game as he was looking knackered but dropping him after he had just had a 2 week break was crazy especially as we appear to have no viable alternative. The whole defence was shocking yesterday that's as bad as we have defended since Mowbray arrived. Bennett poor again in two positions a bit of luck that he's suspended on Wednesday as it means that Mowbray hasn't got to make the decision to drop him (which I don't think he would). Evans was a big miss again to he has become one of our key players, I assume he is injured so lets hope he is fit for Wednesday.

Graham hasn't trained most that 2 weeks so play Brereton or Armstrong not Dack or Palmer

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, BankEnd Rover said:

Looking back at the highlights we had more chances than I thought! I thought we played okay just defence was awful!

we had 4 great chances 1st half half, and 3 second half which we scored 1. 

43 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Poor game prep - it's not just Mowbray who worries me but also the calibre of personnel who support him.

Yes you say poor prep when we lose but you don't come on when the prep has been excellent like home wins against Brentford and Leeds United

 

25 minutes ago, DE. said:

We seem to be trying to play a passing game rather than a long-ball game - which would be fine if most of our goals this season hadn't come from set-pieces and crosses. We don't score from open play very often and when you watch us it's clear that if Dack isn't at it we have no creative players on the pitch capable of producing anything worthwhile. The rare times we do players like Armstrong and Rothwell inevitably miss, so unless a chance falls to Graham or Dack chances are we aren't scoring from open play. You'll get the odd worlie - even Lowe scored a 25 yarder once - but by and large, especially with our defending, it isn't going to be enough.

With all of that said, does it make any sense to play a system with no striker? Nope. So Mowbray really needs to be asked to explain this nonsense. I'd love to hear the rationale behind a system which, on the surface, appears to be completely self-defeating on the basis of the players we have and the goals we've scored so far this season. 

Mowbray has mention trying to change us to passing style type of game which is fair enough but then players like Rodwell and Rothwell need to play. 

Dack is being man marked out of game. Pearson did a job on him yesterday 

26 minutes ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Aye. Something doesn’t add up for me too. He’s admitted to Sharpe that ‘we’re a striker short’ so why on earth wasn’t it rectified before the end of the window and spunked all on this lad who he plays out wide - if at all?! Very very fishy or just rank bad management and recruitment.

If Armstrong is going to play wide then we are short but Brereton should be playing up front

[Ewood Ace]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Graham hasn't trained most that 2 weeks so play Brereton or Armstrong not Dack or Palmer

Then he ought to be even fresher if he hasn't trained for most of the two weeks if he's fit enough to be on the bench and play 45 minutes then he would have been fit enough to start and play at least 70 minutes. Armstrong is not strong enough to play the lone striker role as for Brereton Mowbray can't be much clearer he see's him as a wide player. The biggest question is why did Mowbray spend £7 million on a reserve winger when everyone knew that we needed a striker.

[chaddyrovers]

7 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

 

Bell has been consistently bad all season, both of our left backs are crap, and thats the only area of the defence where we have back up.

Fair play to disagreeing with the team selection, but going one further, I don't understand how you can even understand it. We are the team most reliant on long balls in the league. To play Palmer and Dack up front (essentially) is stupidity from Mowbray. Why spend 9m on strikers and not play them there?

 

disagree on Bell being bad all season or both being crap. Williams was awful yesterday. 

Yes I disagree with the team selected but the team Mowbray selected would have understandable if he played Armstrong up front and Palmer or Dack wide left. fair enough. 

Read Mowbray views on when he played that formation and understand it. 

Do you class Armstrong a wide player/striker or as a striker? 

[Gav]

56 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Poor game prep - it's not just Mowbray who worries me but also the calibre of personnel who support him.

Absolutly nothing to support that sweeping statement Mercer.

Results and transfer dealings have been good since Mowbray arrived, we've seen vast improvements on the playing side, club stability excellent.

We lost to Bpools main rivals, bad day at the office, nothing more and we move on.

 

 

Edited November 25, 2018 by Gav

[BankEnd Rover]

3 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

we had 4 great chances 1st half half, and 3 second half which we scored 1. 

Yes you say poor prep when we lose but you don't come on when the prep has been excellent like home wins against Brentford and Leeds United

 

Mowbray has mention trying to change us to passing style type of game which is fair enough but then players like Rodwell and Rothwell need to play. 

Dack is being man marked out of game. Pearson did a job on him yesterday 

If Armstrong is going to play wide then we are short but Brereton should be playing up front

I wouldn't say the prep was good for those matches? More like the players were more up for those games

[roversfan99]

The blame has to fall with Mowbray for yesterdays shambolic, inept performance.

His team selection was wrong and he needs to learn from his mistakes. Kasey Palmer is not a target man and hes being thrown under the bus playing him like that.

Not sure if Raya was responsible to be honest. Mulgrew was the pick of the defenders and he wasnt very good. Lenihan was rash as he can be, and both full backs were appalling. Thats probably our best back 4 on

Reed was our only plus point in the middle of the park. Smallwood should not be a starter, and Mowbrays explanation for Evans absence (that hed been on international duty) I found rather peculiar. But even if Evans was unavailable, I'd have Rodwell in first.

Bennett again offered zilch going forwards, as he usually does. Palmer looked lost as a target man, Dack looked lost alongside him, and Armstrong was appalling.

Graham being not fit enough shouldnt be as much of a problem as it is, even though hes been excellent for most of the season bar the 2 recent home games. Mowbray spent 9 million on strikers yet as soon as Graham is unavailable, he resorts to playing midfielders there. Theres no excuse and its never worked or even shown signs of working.

Brereton has shown flickers but whenever he gets the ball wide he looks totally lost. Hes become the 7m luxury sub (as @Ewood Ace touches on) that our squad is nowhere near balanced enough to be able to afford. I feel sorry for him because he is a striker, we needed a striker, and he has looked brighter lately when in central areas. The blame therefore totally falls on Mowbray. Play him central or not at all.

It says something that we have 6 wins, all by one goal, and 4 losses, all by 2 or 3. As soon as we go behind we have a tendency to fall to pieces against very average opponents. Thats a worrying sign.

[chaddyrovers]

6 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Then he ought to be even fresher if he hasn't trained for most of the two weeks if he's fit enough to be on the bench and play 45 minutes then he would have been fit enough to start and play at least 70 minutes. Armstrong is not strong enough to play the lone striker role as for Brereton Mowbray can't be much clearer he see's him as a wide player. The biggest question is why did Mowbray spend £7 million on a reserve winger when everyone knew that we needed a striker.

I don't know on Graham. 

I would play Brereton up front. He is ready and I think he would score goals. 

Just now, BankEnd Rover said:

I wouldn't say the prep was good for those matches? More like the players were more up for those games

our defensively discipline and organisation won us those 2 games