JANUARY TRANSFER WINDOW

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 minute ago, Paul Mani said:

Downing is now 5th place defender.

Samuel was replaced by £7m BB

Smallwood - We signed Reed and Davenport (who’s been injured) and tbf to Smallwood he’s fighting hard to keep his place.

Bell is young and was bought to develop into a championship player.

Caddis has gone.

You make a great point initially but those players are and will be removed through the season. He’s openly said that the players are under no illusion as to what standard they need to be at to stay in the team. Even the likes of Bennett and Mulgrew.

He isn't 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, S8 & Blue said:

I'd say it takes time. 

Although 9/10 is pushing it a bit, I'd say he's got more right than wrong. The only obvious mistake is Whittingham and I think we'll all concede that hindsight is 20/20 on that one.

 

Anyone play the ball and not the man in here btw?

I agree it takes time and it's foolish to make too many changes. In normal circumstances 2 changes is enough preseason. After getting promoted maybe three new players is more appropriate. I'm talking about players who are specifically signed to play in the first team and who are significantly better than the lads that are already here. We seemed to have signed one player who fits that bill in Reed. l think the juries out for the rest of our signings.

[47er]

He has built up great camaraderie which we hadn't had for so long. I totally agree with that. The problem is, he's been too loyal to that side that he brought up.

 

[SBlue]

3 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

He isn't 

Pantomime season I suppose.

I'd say he's been behind Lenihan, Mulgrew, Williams and Rodwell for a CB spot

[Paul Mani]

1 minute ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

He isn't 

Mowbray has played Lenihan, Mulgrew, Williams and Rodwell before him this season. The only reason he played recently was because TM refused to play two left footed cb’s with both Lenihan and Rodwell injured. He’s been in the press this week claiming that he’s looking at moving on. Because he’s not playing.

[AllRoverAsia]

Has the window opened already?

I can't wait, really, for Ben to succeed and see what all the SOOOO excitement is all about.

Venus was hardly going to say anything else now was he.

I saw Ben a few times for Forest and England and am on record on this MB as saying he looks decent. I genuinely hope he succeeds, he drives us to the PL and if sold brings in loads of £

This thread will still be here when Ben's Rovers contract is distant history, always interesting looking back....

Finally like  Christmas preparations this all starts too early, it far too early for the bi-annual "Mani Willy Waving" contest.

[Bigdoggsteel]

3 minutes ago, S8 & Blue said:

Pantomime season I suppose.

I'd say he's been behind Lenihan, Mulgrew, Williams and Rodwell for a CB spot

 

2 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Mowbray has played Lenihan, Mulgrew, Williams and Rodwell before him this season. The only reason he played recently was because TM refused to play two left footed cb’s with both Lenihan and Rodwell injured. He’s been in the press this week claiming that he’s looking at moving on. Because he’s not playing.

He has started our last 2 games and wouldn't be surprised if he kept his place on Saturday. He was down the pecking order, but for various reasons he has moved into pole position. 

[Paul Mani]

7 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Has the window opened already?

I can't wait, really, for Ben to succeed and see what all the SOOOO excitement is all about.

Venus was hardly going to say anything else now was he. He’d have been free to say whatever he thought considering he was talking to a friend / football acquaintance and BB hadn’t signed for us at that point. 

I saw Ben a few times for Forest and England and am on record on this MB as saying he looks decent. I genuinely hope he succeeds, he drives us to the PL and if sold brings in loads of £

This thread will still be here when Ben's Rovers contract is distant history, always interesting looking back....

Finally like  Christmas preparations this all starts too early, it far too early for the bi-annual "Mani Willy Waving" contest. Now that’d be a sight! ???????

 

Edited December 11, 2018 by Paul Mani

[Paul Mani]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

 

He has started our last 2 games and wouldn't be surprised if he kept his place on Saturday. He was down the pecking order, but for various reasons he has moved into pole position. 

He’s played his way in by doing well. But that’s a good thing isn’t it? That the likes of Rodwell and the others  have increased his standards?

I still think he’ll move on as he’s suggested. Because ultimately he knows he’s 5th choice.

[roversfan99]

2 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

You’re completely overthinking this mate. All I have done is disagreed with a few on here with regards to what I believe are inaccurate assumptions. History tells us that every time that happens on here it causes mayhem but I don’t see why that should stop me giving my opinion. 

Of course TM has made mistakes. But you are talking here about him being poor (5/10) in the transfer market plus the notion that there is something cynical about why BB isn’t playing which imo is ludicrous. Especially when we’ve been so successful during that time and the manager is so open. Add to this that I do actually have some insight, makes me feel compelled to give my opinion. If you don’t like it then put me on ignore.

Have you or the boys ever stopped to wonder whether people want to read your constant moaning and cynicism about everything no matter how well things are going? Probably not because it’s a messageboard and a messageboard is about opinions right? Well you have yours and I have mine!

 

Constant moaning and cynicism? You are cherry picking what you want to read.

I have only seen one poster refer to the conspiracy theories, and whilst I understand the distrust due to this happening before under our terrible owners, I dont subscribe to these theories in this instance at all.

I think that Mowbray is doing a good job, as I keep saying, and the most important thing is results. First season, he failed his task but it was a very difficult task to keep us in the league. Was happy to see him remain. Very good last season and again we are doing pretty well this season. The fambase is united behind him, and people (bar maybe an isolated exception) are not asking for him to be removed or against him, contrary to what some are saying.

So results are what matters and Mowbrays have been good throughout his time here. 

I also feel like the key to his success has been more reliant on the players he inherited and the extra he has got from them. Said that many times and feel like hes excelled in that area far more than hit and miss recruitment whereby as @K-Hod correctly points out AT THE MOMENT which is when we judge only a couple of his signings are actually in the team.

You keep saying how excited they are by Brereton. May I ask your opinion on these issues: (please dont say Mowbray knows best he seems him in training, just interested in your view, not Mowbrays)

Do you not understand and empathise with people wanting to see more of such an "exciting" talent?

Would you not rather see him in his natural position as a central striker when he does feature? As he played at Forest to command said reputation.

With Brereton presumably intended to play a much more prominent role as the season progresses, do you still think that a striker should be first priority in January?

Lets say Danny Graham picks a knock up in training. Everyone else is fit for Birmingham at the weekend. Who do you start up front?

I dont have a problem with you or your opinion. My only issue is with the undercurrent of arrogance in terms of implying you know better than others. 

[Paul Mani]

20 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Constant moaning and cynicism? You are cherry picking what you want to read.

I have only seen one poster refer to the conspiracy theories, and whilst I understand the distrust due to this happening before under our terrible owners, I dont subscribe to these theories in this instance at all.

I think that Mowbray is doing a good job, as I keep saying, and the most important thing is results. First season, he failed his task but it was a very difficult task to keep us in the league. Was happy to see him remain. Very good last season and again we are doing pretty well this season. The fambase is united behind him, and people (bar maybe an isolated exception) are not asking for him to be removed or against him, contrary to what some are saying.

So results are what matters and Mowbrays have been good throughout his time here. 

I also feel like the key to his success has been more reliant on the players he inherited and the extra he has got from them. Said that many times and feel like hes excelled in that area far more than hit and miss recruitment whereby as @K-Hod correctly points out AT THE MOMENT which is when we judge only a couple of his signings are actually in the team.

You keep saying how excited they are by Brereton. May I ask your opinion on these issues: (please dont say Mowbray knows best he seems him in training, just interested in your view, not Mowbrays)

Do you not understand and empathise with people wanting to see more of such an "exciting" talent?

Would you not rather see him in his natural position as a central striker when he does feature? As he played at Forest to command said reputation.

With Brereton presumably intended to play a much more prominent role as the season progresses, do you still think that a striker should be first priority in January?

Lets say Danny Graham picks a knock up in training. Everyone else is fit for Birmingham at the weekend. Who do you start up front?

I dont have a problem with you or your opinion. My only issue is with the undercurrent of arrogance in terms of implying you know better than others. 

Ok, so my opinion is that I’d love to see more of Brereton. The club are very excited about him and I value the opinions of the people I know who rate him. (I haven’t been able to make my own judgement because he hasn’t played much)

I can therefore empathise with people wanting to see more of him. But I stop short of making myself beleive there is only one possible, cynical reason for it.

As Iv said before, I would have bought another mainline striker in the summer as well as BB. I look at every success story in there and the teams always have several different goal scoring options. I genuinely believe we would’ve been 5/6pts better off had we done so. I suppose they thought they’d have Samuel who has Championship experience but still. They should’ve addressed that imo. So yes 100% a striker would be my priority.

I want to see BB play up front and I’d pick him if Graham were injured. 

Edited December 11, 2018 by Paul Mani

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Any Rovers fan can be excused cynicism after the goings on at Ewood over the last ten years. Even the dogs in the street know players were being left out for purely financial reasons in the past.

[tomphil]

Somebody who worked In football once said Jason Lowe in our youth team would be the next big thing when he stepped up.

He also said another young player would be the next Smalling and yet another youngster who cost money could be the Scottish Wayne Rooney........

That person had things to gain from coming out with these things the moral being in football anyone will say anything if they think they are right or have something personal to gain.

The only ever REAL proof is in the poooding as they say !

 

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

6 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Somebody who worked In football once said Jason Lowe in our youth team would be the next big thing when he stepped up.

He also said another young player would be the next Smalling and yet another youngster who cost money could be the Scottish Wayne Rooney........

That person had things to gain from coming out with these things the moral being in football anyone will say anything if they think they are right or have something personal to gain.

The only ever REAL proof is in the poooding as they say !

 

 

I remember reading an article about Marlon Broomes when he was coming through.   Alan Shearer said he was going to be the next Bobby Moore. I couldn't believe my eyes when I first saw him play. You don't expect the finished article in a young player but usually something catches your eye. They're quick and strong in the tackle. They have a good passing game. Or they read the game well and are calm in possession, good in the air etc. Broomes had none of those attributes. He made Christian Bloody Dailly look like a proper centre back !

Edited December 11, 2018 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[DE.]

Alex Ferguson once said Phil Jones could become Man Utd's "greatest ever player":

http://en.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/203772.html

Instead he became a more injury prone version of John O'Shea.

Opinions are what they are.

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

No truth to the Eaves rumours so I read. A number of articles today linking him to Hibs. That's probably more his level to be fair 

[Paul Mani]

Opinions are exactly that. They’re just a persons thoughts. But the validity of those opinions are tangible. SAF made mistakes but his success was primarily based on how well he dealt with bad apples and replaced players giving him longevity. His success was a barometer of his ability in the transfer market. 

TM is no different and his transfer business has shaped his progress so far, which has been very good. If we fail to progress towards the Premier League then his prowess in the transfer market is wide open as well as the other facets.

IMO

[tomphil]

10 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I remember reading an article about Marlon Broomes when he was coming through.   Alan Shearer said he was going to be the next Bobby Moore. I couldn't believe my eyes when I first saw him play. You don't expect the finished article in a young player but usually something catches your eye. They're quick and strong in the tackle. They have a good passing game. Or they read the game well and are calm in possession, good in the air etc. Broomes had none of those attributes. He made Christian Bloody Dailly look like a proper centre back !

Yeah I remember the fuss about Broomes but he never developed sadly similar to Lowe.

Phil Jones has been mentioned and although he hasn't turned out to be a world beater when he was younger in the youth team he stood out like a beacon head and shoulders above others you could see something there like you say.

What I will say is throwing in the likes of Lowe and Hanley at a young age didn't do them any favours in the long run although that was the Prem obviously. A more softly softly approach over a longer period of time to bed them in might have been better. Hard to say whether Mpwbrays approach to this is correct or whether he's holding the lad back too much now.

More inclined to think there are other reasons at play for now though but I never buy into the old football he said she said nonsense every other young player in the lower leagues is going to be a worldie according to their agents !   Only time and opportunities prove anything.

[Paul Mani]

5 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Yeah I remember the fuss about Broomes but he never developed sadly similar to Lowe.

Phil Jones has been mentioned and although he hasn't turned out to be a world beater when he was younger in the youth team he stood out like a beacon head and shoulders above others you could see something there like you say.

What I will say is throwing in the likes of Lowe and Hanley at a young age didn't do them any favours in the long run although that was the Prem obviously. A more softly softly approach over a longer period of time to bed them in might have been better. Hard to say whether Mpwbrays approach to this is correct or whether he's holding the lad back too much now.

More inclined to think there are other reasons at play for now though but I never buy into the old football he said she said nonsense every other young player in the lower leagues is going to be a worldie according to their agents !   Only time and opportunities prove anything.

Jones was a curious case. I watched him bully a peak Drogba at Ewood Park aged 18. There was nothing gonna stop that lad from being the best CB on the planet. Injuries and possibly too much too soon killed him. Had a good career but definitely underachieved.

Intersting points you make about Lowe and Hanley being thrust in too soon. I also think Hoilett was trusted too soon. That guy had some skills. Has never really hit the heights. 

Dunn and Duff were definitely introduced slowly. The other thing about them was that it wasn’t until 2 or so years had passed that they were then expected to change games. Perhaps because we had lots of good players back then.

Maybe the biggest issue with throwing young players in is their mental strength in dealing with the expectation? Maybe that’s the reason he’s taking things slowly with BB. His interviews suggest it...though I don’t know the answer.

[OJRovers]

It wouldn't be 'throwing in' BB, he's played at this level a lot more than others picked in the team (Raya, Nyambe, Bell, Smallwood,  etc). If he was playing well enough for Forrest last season to attract Premier League interest, then why isn't he good enough to play for us now? I don't think TM has properly explained that.

 

 

[arbitro]

1 hour ago, Paul Mani said:

Opinions are exactly that. They’re just a persons thoughts. But the validity of those opinions are tangible. SAF made mistakes but his success was primarily based on how well he dealt with bad apples and replaced players giving him longevity. His success was a barometer of his ability in the transfer market. 

TM is no different and his transfer business has shaped his progress so far, which has been very good. If we fail to progress towards the Premier League then his prowess in the transfer market is wide open as well as the other facets.

IMO

On Saturday eight of the starting team were here when Mowbray arrived and that has pretty much been the theme since he came. If you said he has improved them I could accept that but to give credit for our success to Mowbrays signings simply isn't true.

[Paul Mani]

8 minutes ago, arbitro said:

On Saturday eight of the starting team were here when Mowbray arrived and that has pretty much been the theme since he came. If you said he has improved them I could accept that but to give credit for our success to Mowbrays signings simply isn't true.

Ahhhh so what’s your point? That Coyle’s recruitment is the reason for our success? Maybe Lamberts? Or that one game (Saturdays) is accountable for the managers whole tenure.

Dack, Armstrong, Smallwood, Antonsson, Samuel, Caddis and Bell all played a role in last years promotion. The first three on that list were arguably pivotal. 

This season, Armstrong, Brereton, Reed, Rothwell and Palmer have all scored or assisted thus showing a direct impact on the team performance. Whilst I personally think Rodwell has also made a decent enough start.

I don’t get how narrow minded this argument is. It’s really simple, we don’t get promoted last season without the players mentioned above. And we don’t make the start we have this season without the impact of the others Iv mentioned. We know this because they’ve directly effected our matches in terms of goals and assists.

Just because some of them signed this season aren’t regulars doesn’t mean they’re bad signings. He’s openly said he expects the likes of Rothwell, Brereton and Davenport are signings that will benefit us over a long period.

In all of his reign I can only think of Whittingham who came with a rep, likely on decent money and failed. We’ve never had any bad apples brought in either. No rumblings in the dressing room...

AND in the middle of all this we currently have (arguably) the best player in Championship on our books who was signed for £750k and will likely go for £20-25m in the summer. That’d be enough for most fans. Obvs not ours! ???

 

[Paul Mani]

1 hour ago, OJRovers said:

It wouldn't be 'throwing in' BB, he's played at this level a lot more than others picked in the team (Raya, Nyambe, Bell, Smallwood,  etc). If he was playing well enough for Forrest last season to attract Premier League interest, then why isn't he good enough to play for us now? I don't think TM has properly explained that.

 

 

I think TM is about the most honest manager we’ve ever had. I don’t know why he’s not playing him but he’s said enough about the situation to prevent me from thinking there’s some cynical sub plot. 

From what I hear BB played a lot of games early on at forest due to injuries? Maybe if we’d had multiple, long term injuries in this area we would have played him more? 

[RevidgeBlue]

3 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

You’re just embarrassing yourself mate. 

You're the only one embarrassing yourself by constantly hinting over the last couple of years that you work in the game and inferring your opinion therefore carries so much more weight than anyone else  when in fact you've conceded today that in fact it is nothing of the case.

Edit: As for your scorn about my point that good players can adapt, I've lost count of the number of ex-players I've heard say that, the last one I can specifically remember being Dean Saunders, so I'll defer to their opinion on that.

Edited December 11, 2018 by RevidgeBlue

[arbitro]

16 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Ahhhh so what’s your point? That Coyle’s recruitment is the reason for our success? Maybe Lamberts? Or that one game (Saturdays) is accountable for the managers whole tenure.

Dack, Armstrong, Smallwood, Antonsson, Samuel, Caddis and Bell all played a role in last years promotion. The first three on that list were arguably pivotal. 

This season, Armstrong, Brereton, Reed, Rothwell and Palmer have all scored or assisted thus showing a direct impact on the team performance. Whilst I personally think Rodwell has also made a decent enough start.

I don’t get how narrow minded this argument is. It’s really simple, we don’t get promoted last season without the players mentioned above. And we don’t make the start we have this season without the impact of the others Iv mentioned. We know this because they’ve directly effected our matches in terms of goals and assists.

Just because some of them signed this season aren’t regulars doesn’t mean they’re bad signings. He’s openly said he expects the likes of Rothwell, Brereton and Davenport are signings that will benefit us over a long period.

In all of his reign I can only think of Whittingham who came with a rep, likely on decent money and failed. We’ve never had any bad apples brought in either. No rumblings in the dressing room...

AND in the middle of all this we currently have (arguably) the best player in Championship on our books who was signed for £750k and will likely go for £20-25m in the summer. That’d be enough for most fans. Obvs not ours! ???

 

You only see it as narrow minded because it differs to your opinion. What I have said is correct. Of course some of Mowbrays signings have played a part but predominantly the nucleus of what seems his preferred starting eleven weren't signed by him. And whilst you mention the contribution of Whittingham and Caddis I can't recall anything positive from them. And their 'contribution' probably cost us at least £1.5m.

I wasn't talking about the future by the way and possible potential, I was talking about now and none of the players you mention (Reed and Dack aside) can be remotely considered as regulars.

Your 'obvs not our' quote is way off the mark. Mowbray has been hit and (mainly) miss in the transfer market so far. It happens to lots of managers. That said I am happy where we are and with results overall but that isn't clouding my judgement when it comes to our dealings over Mowbrays tenure.