JANUARY TRANSFER WINDOW

[AAK]

Get what people are saying about spending in January and slowly rebuilding etc. Don't quite agree, I think this season is one that is, but unfortunately for us now was, a season that is there for the taking. The quality has dropped, nobody is running away with it and every team is having more than one bad run. Look at top 6 Leeds, we should have done the double over them,  Norwich got a very late winner in a drab game berift of quality, Boro we should have beaten away, West Brom took 4 points from, derby got a draw away and then they weren't good enough to break down our defence. The only team that beat us well were sheff Utd and arguably if it wasn't for Smallwood we would have got something at their place. Our troubles were at home to the likes of Rotherham, Millwall and reading, if we'd have take the extra 6 points from those 3 poor sides we'd be 6th. However we seems reluctant to take games by the scruff of the neck, much like the season.

With a few more additions we could have had a real go, but the manager seems reluctant to have a go at it, that's seems to have rubbed off on most of the fans and players. 

This season was there for the taking for teams like ours.

Edited January 20, 2019 by AAK

[Stuart]

10 hours ago, StaffordRover said:

Blackburn agree deal to sign 18-year-old Louie Annesley from Gibraltar side Lincoln Red Imps on three and a half year deal. 

Being reported in Daily Mail online. Is 6 foot 4 inch centre half; one for the development squad.

Grayson’s replacement for the U23s presumably. Without Nuttall, Travis, Grayson and potentially Butterworth they are very light now this season. It’ll be tough to stay up at this rate.

[AAK]

Just now, Stuart said:

Grayson’s replacement for the U23s presumably. Without Nuttall, Travis, Grayson and potentially Butterworth they are very light now this season. It’ll be tough to stay up at this rate.

It's a rubbish set up anyway, with little competition. Reserve league was much better, mate.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 minute ago, Stuart said:

Grayson’s replacement for the U23s presumably. Without Nuttall, Travis, Grayson and potentially Butterworth they are very light now this season. It’ll be tough to stay up at this rate.

In Johnno we trust !

[blueboy3333]

Just now, AAK said:

Our troubles were at home to the likes of Rotherham, Millwall and reading, if we'd have take the extra 6 points from those 3 poor sides we'd be 6th.

We tend to struggle against teams that sit back because we aren't a very creative side. We do better against the teams with quality because we can get in their faces and knock them off their stride. I'd imagine Mowbray is wary of changing that dynamic because it's served us well so far this season. If we went out and tried to out-football teams every week (like Coyle did, in his naivety) then I doubt we'd be sat on the edge of the play-offs. 

[Stuart]

2 minutes ago, AAK said:

It's a rubbish set up anyway, with little competition. Reserve league was much better, mate.

In what way? There is some decent football at times, tbf.

[47er]

13 minutes ago, AAK said:

Get what people are saying about spending in January and slowly rebuilding etc. Don't quite agree, I think this season is one that is, but unfortunately for us now was, a season that is there for the taking. The quality has dropped, nobody is running away with it and every team is having more than one bad run. Look at top 6 Leeds, we should have done the double over them,  Norwich got a very late winner in a drab game berift of quality, Boro we should have beaten away, West Brom took 4 points from, derby got a draw away and then they weren't good enough to break down our defence. The only team that beat us well were sheff Utd and arguably if it wasn't for Smallwood we would have got something at their place. Our troubles were at home to the likes of Rotherham, Millwall and reading, if we'd have take the extra 6 points from those 3 poor sides we'd be 6th. However we seems reluctant to take games by the scruff of the neck, much like the season.

With a few more additions we could have had a real go, but the manager seems reluctant to have a go at it, that's seems to have rubbed off on most of the fans and players. 

This season was there for the taking for teams like ours.

Don't forget away to Ipswich! That was hard to take.

[Parsonblue]

2 minutes ago, Stuart said:

In what way? There is some decent football at times, tbf.

I suspect, although I may be wrong, AAK was talking about the old Central League that existed prior to the Academy system being introduced.  I would agree that up to the early 1980s the old Central League was a far better standard.  42 games were played, mainly on Saturday afternoons, on the home team ground - not training grounds or non-League grounds.  You had established internationals lining up on a regular basis and many players had an entire career that was spent playing Central League football with occasionally first team outings.  It was a tough learning ground but its the one that produced generations of top class players.  I remember being on Ewood in the early sixties when you could get gates of a couple of thousand for games not the couple of hundred you get today.

Today, players can face each other at U15, U16, U18 and then U23 level but without ever coming into contact with senior pros until they make the first team - thus the jump from U23 to first football seems huge.

I would agree with you Stuart that there has been some good football played at times by our development squad over the past couple of seasons in particular.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

7 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

I suspect, although I may be wrong, AAK was talking about the old Central League that existed prior to the Academy system being introduced.  I would agree that up to the early 1980s the old Central League was a far better standard.  42 games were played, mainly on Saturday afternoons, on the home team ground - not training grounds or non-League grounds.  You had established internationals lining up on a regular basis and many players had an entire career that was spent playing Central League football with occasionally first team outings.  It was a tough learning ground but its the one that produced generations of top class players.  I remember being on Ewood in the early sixties when you could get gates of a couple of thousand for games not the couple of hundred you get today.

Today, players can face each other at U15, U16, U18 and then U23 level but without ever coming into contact with senior pros until they make the first team - thus the jump from U23 to first football seems huge.

I would agree with you Stuart that there has been some good football played at times by our development squad over the past couple of seasons in particular.

I remember watching Rovers " A " team playing Rochdale Reserves at Spotland,  Crown Oil Arena  now, a few times in the 1960's.  Our team mainly consisted of mostly of 17 and 18 year old lads but you would get the odd top class International player coming back from injury. Rochdale Reserves consisted of about half a dozen old established professional players and a few of their young lads also. The standard was good and the old pros gave the kids a good grounding in the rough and tumble of playing against men. That's how the likes of Pickering, England, Newton, Byrom, Metcalfe etc could play in the First Division at 17 or 18 years of age and cope physically.

I think that's missing from todays game.

I went watching a pal of mine play for Rochdale Reserves against Burnley " A " team around that time and he was playing directly against Alex Elder who old timers will recall as the dingles Northern Irish International left back. He'd been a top class player but was just coming back from a broken leg. My pal was a flier who could catch pigeons and he gave Elder a bit of a chasing.

 

[Blue n whites]

1 hour ago, blueboy3333 said:

I think you've covered all bases there. 

I'd imagine there has to be a budget though, and I'd imagine Mowbray has no choice but to work within it. Not sure what point you're making?

 

There doesn't have to be a budget thou does there. Spent close to 10 million on arma and brereton plus every major player given new and I presume more lucrative contracts.

Our crowd ain't paying for that is it.

A  list of players where suggested.  None was a massive upgrade. One we just got rid of who was poor and couldn't get in our side.

I'm sure the manager has targets and is working towards that. And I believe if he doesn't sign anyone it ain't because he thinks he can't improve it.

 

 

 

[Tom Stinny]

1 hour ago, AAK said:

Get what people are saying about spending in January and slowly rebuilding etc. Don't quite agree, I think this season is one that is, but unfortunately for us now was, a season that is there for the taking. The quality has dropped, nobody is running away with it and every team is having more than one bad run. Look at top 6 Leeds, we should have done the double over them,  Norwich got a very late winner in a drab game berift of quality, Boro we should have beaten away, West Brom took 4 points from, derby got a draw away and then they weren't good enough to break down our defence. The only team that beat us well were sheff Utd and arguably if it wasn't for Smallwood we would have got something at their place. Our troubles were at home to the likes of Rotherham, Millwall and reading, if we'd have take the extra 6 points from those 3 poor sides we'd be 6th. However we seems reluctant to take games by the scruff of the neck, much like the season.

With a few more additions we could have had a real go, but the manager seems reluctant to have a go at it, that's seems to have rubbed off on most of the fans and players. 

This season was there for the taking for teams like ours.

Problem that Mowbray has is that if he goes and adds real quality now. He's basically saying to everyone I'm going for it now and if I fail I fail dramatically.

[blueboy3333]

19 minutes ago, Blue n whites said:

 

There doesn't have to be a budget thou does there. Spent close to 10 million on arma and brereton plus every major player given new and I presume more lucrative contracts.

Our crowd ain't paying for that is it.

A  list of players where suggested.  None was a massive upgrade. One we just got rid of who was poor and couldn't get in our side.

I'm sure the manager has targets and is working towards that. And I believe if he doesn't sign anyone it ain't because he thinks he can't improve it.

 

 

 

Our crowd didn't pay the £10m you mentioned either. Venky's did.

I think Mowbray has already said there is money to spend in January. 

[AAK]

1 hour ago, Parsonblue said:

I suspect, although I may be wrong, AAK was talking about the old Central League that existed prior to the Academy system being introduced.  I would agree that up to the early 1980s the old Central League was a far better standard.  42 games were played, mainly on Saturday afternoons, on the home team ground - not training grounds or non-League grounds.  You had established internationals lining up on a regular basis and many players had an entire career that was spent playing Central League football with occasionally first team outings.  It was a tough learning ground but its the one that produced generations of top class players.  I remember being on Ewood in the early sixties when you could get gates of a couple of thousand for games not the couple of hundred you get today.

Today, players can face each other at U15, U16, U18 and then U23 level but without ever coming into contact with senior pros until they make the first team - thus the jump from U23 to first football seems huge.

I would agree with you Stuart that there has been some good football played at times by our development squad over the past couple of seasons in particular.

Yes more or less what I meant, you only have to look at how the u23 teams (including ours) fair in the football league trophy, they are all getting hammered off league one, down to the bottom of league 2 opposition.

[AAK]

1 hour ago, blueboy3333 said:

We tend to struggle against teams that sit back because we aren't a very creative side. We do better against the teams with quality because we can get in their faces and knock them off their stride. I'd imagine Mowbray is wary of changing that dynamic because it's served us well so far this season. If we went out and tried to out-football teams every week (like Coyle did, in his naivety) then I doubt we'd be sat on the edge of the play-offs. 

I get that mate to some extent, but I fell in those 3 games, we seemed to be happy to take the point possibly because we went behind in all 3 games. If we could add that quality, which is what people are suggesting, then we could make that jump into the play offs. I mean, at time this season, that cautious approach has arguable cost us as more than going gung ho may have, in terms of sitting back and conceding late goals on a regular basis, mate.

[Tom Stinny]

1 hour ago, blueboy3333 said:

We tend to struggle against teams that sit back because we aren't a very creative side. We do better against the teams with quality because we can get in their faces and knock them off their stride. I'd imagine Mowbray is wary of changing that dynamic because it's served us well so far this season. If we went out and tried to out-football teams every week (like Coyle did, in his naivety) then I doubt we'd be sat on the edge of the play-offs. 

That's where a plan B should be though. I agree with using a high work rate and intensity to get the best out of this bunch because I don't think there's enough quality to play possession football.

 

Although having 2 or 3 more creative players on the bench to change a game against a Millwall or a Rotherham should be available. It'll like handicapping yourself to only have one option to use.

 

Think yesterday Rothwell and Nuttal came on and push the game on even more. Another more proven quality on the bench like a speedy winger to stretch a game could change us from outsiders to real contenders.

[Blue n whites]

34 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Our crowd didn't pay the £10m you mentioned either. Venky's did.

I think Mowbray has already said there is money to spend in January. 

I hope so

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

38 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Our crowd didn't pay the £10m you mentioned either. Venky's did.

I think Mowbray has already said there is money to spend in January. 

That'd be great. Let's hope we can bring a couple of players in who will definitely improve the team. We'd not be far off then.

[Stuart]

11 minutes ago, AAK said:

Yes more or less what I meant, you only have to look at how the u23 teams (including ours) fair in the football league trophy, they are all getting hammered off league one, down to the bottom of league 2 opposition.

The reason for that is that we promoted the better players from last season so we now have a lower quality squad at a higher level. Worst of both worlds.

[Bigdoggsteel]

8 minutes ago, Stuart said:

The reason for that is that we promoted the better players from last season so we now have a lower quality squad at a higher level. Worst of both worlds.

Not really. It's not about winning at that level. It's about giving young lads the chance to play at as high a standard as possible 

[Stuart]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Not really. It's not about winning at that level. It's about giving young lads the chance to play at as high a standard as possible 

Professional football is always about winning, it’s what makes players stand out as being better than their peers. The point I was responding to was about the competitiveness of the division.

There are still some good players, Fisher, Hardcastle, Mols, Rankin-Costello, Butterworth, Platt but it will take time for them to be in a position to compete - individually and as a team - having lost several good players at the same time. Hence they will struggle to win games.

If they don’t win enough games they will be relegated and won’t be at the highest level. Having two divisions introduced this dynamic.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Stuart said:

Professional football is always about winning, it’s what makes players stand out as being better than their peers. The point I was responding to was about the competitiveness of the division.

There are still some good players, Fisher, Hardcastle, Mols, Rankin-Costello, Butterworth, Platt but it will take time for them to be in a position to compete - individually and as a team - having lost several good players at the same time. Hence they will struggle to win games.

If they don’t win enough games they will be relegated and won’t be at the highest level. Having two divisions introduced this dynamic.

Under age football is different and it isn't about winning. If it was we wouldn't have let players go on loan or even promote them from the under 23s. 

[roversfan99]

49 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Under age football is different and it isn't about winning. If it was we wouldn't have let players go on loan or even promote them from the under 23s. 

Whilst you are right that the primary focus of under age football is development. Winning is still important and as Stuart says, there is a balance there, get relegated and we spend a season with our younger players not being tested in the same way that they are now.

I must say our future looks a lot rosier than even a month ago.

Travis has come in and even those championing his inclusion long before it arose could not expect a novice to come in and be so consistently excellent. His least effective performances were v Sheff United and on Tuesday for me and even then he was 7 out of 10.

Armstrong has really come to the fore in the last few weeks aswell. Big question marks around whether he could come close to replicating his incredible strike rate and performance level from last season in a league where he has previously struggled and bar the occasional performance (Leeds and Rotherham) he was again struggling and not contributing enough. This last week has seen 2 goals, 3 assists and 3 excellent performances.

Lenihan was one I had big hopes for but his rashness and incapability on the ball seemed to suggest that he perhaps wasnt good enough to justify the potential we thought he had. His performances recently have been the Lenihan we saw last season and lets hope it was just a (quite lengthy) drop in form.

Nuttall I had written off in terms of his capability to step up but he has impressed in the last week and with his recent numbers in the under 23s and he is a goalscorer, he can sniff out chances and is always on hand for tap ins. Needs a loan at some stage I would suspect but at the moment we cant afford to let him go.

Nyambe and Raya both still have a rawness to their game but both are more established prospects. Rothwell is very raw but theres potential there and he was excellent yesterday.

The elephant in the room is Brereton. Hes the one who cost the most who has shown the least sadly. 

[Admiral Nelsen]

18 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Whilst you are right that the primary focus of under age football is development. Winning is still important and as Stuart says, there is a balance there, get relegated and we spend a season with our younger players not being tested in the same way that they are now.

I must say our future looks a lot rosier than even a month ago.

Travis has come in and even those championing his inclusion long before it arose could not expect a novice to come in and be so consistently excellent. His least effective performances were v Sheff United and on Tuesday for me and even then he was 7 out of 10.

Armstrong has really come to the fore in the last few weeks aswell. Big question marks around whether he could come close to replicating his incredible strike rate and performance level from last season in a league where he has previously struggled and bar the occasional performance (Leeds and Rotherham) he was again struggling and not contributing enough. This last week has seen 2 goals, 3 assists and 3 excellent performances.

Lenihan was one I had big hopes for but his rashness and incapability on the ball seemed to suggest that he perhaps wasnt good enough to justify the potential we thought he had. His performances recently have been the Lenihan we saw last season and lets hope it was just a (quite lengthy) drop in form.

Nuttall I had written off in terms of his capability to step up but he has impressed in the last week and with his recent numbers in the under 23s and he is a goalscorer, he can sniff out chances and is always on hand for tap ins. Needs a loan at some stage I would suspect but at the moment we cant afford to let him go.

Nyambe and Raya both still have a rawness to their game but both are more established prospects. Rothwell is very raw but theres potential there and he was excellent yesterday.

The elephant in the room is Brereton. Hes the one who cost the most who has shown the least sadly. 

Great post. Agree with pretty much al of it, only caveat would be BB's being the youngest, as well the most expensive but don't want to turn this into another BB thread when the other is over 100 pages!

On Nutall, I'm delighted that he's forced his way into the team, and has got hi goals. Having said that I'm still sceptical about his chances of becoming a long term fixture for a side who wants to get promoted, even as an impact sub, but even if that turns out to be true, I'd say we've already got our money's worth from a very low risk signing.

Rothwell's second half yesterday has shown that, when on form, he really does have absolutely everything to be a devestating player. Going to be some challenge to turn his cameo appearences into something a bit more consistent, but when it happens for him, I think it could happen all at once. Potential Dack replacement if he leaves over the next 18 months.

[bigbrandjohn]

4 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

I see PNE's new lower league signings (Godley and Crème Stockley and Potts) both scored yesterday at a QPR side that rarely concede. There be gold in them there leagues, like we found with Dack. 

Tell that to Ipswich!!!

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

5 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

I see PNE's new lower league signings (Godley and Crème Stockley and Potts) both scored yesterday at a QPR side that rarely concede. There be gold in them there leagues, like we found with Dack. 

For reasons I won't go into here I had to listen to yesterdays QPR v Preston game on Radio Lancashire. The score didn't flatter them and QPR were hardly in it. Stockley especially sounded a handful.