JANUARY TRANSFER WINDOW

[SBlue]

5 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

It's not so much that he's " undroppable ", he's all we've got.

Good job he's easily one of the best in the league at what he does then. 

I'd say he's pretty much the definition of undroppable in our team.

Edited February 1, 2019 by S8 & Blue

[47er]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

Travis has had a fantastic 6 weeks and moved his stock forward greatly.

I don’t think that’s beyond any of our young players yet you and others will gladly write someone off who hasn’t!

Not for me.

There is no actual evidence that he will ever "move his stock forward" just as there is any certainty that he'll be a complete flop. However the evidence seems to be in favour of the former rather than the latter wouldn't you think?

Pay £7M in the Championship for a 19 year old and TM daren't pick him! Utterly absurd.

[JBiz]

47 minutes ago, gumboots said:

Parson watches a lot of our academy matches and has a very positive attitude to our young players. He has doubts about Brereton. If he, who is encouraging of our youth, thinks Brereton probably won't cut the mustard, then I suspect he won't.

I saw Brereton myself at St James Park and wasn't impressed with the look of him but I wouldn't judge him on that alone. However, I do have to say that I felt he didn't even show desire let alone ability that day. 

I have the same doubts but it’s not time to say “he’s garbage” or “a waste of money”. I also don’t recall PB saying he doesn’t think he will make the grade either.

I also watched the same game. You couldn’t single him out as someone not showing effort or desire from what I saw. He doesn’t look confident or exactly sure his role, but that’s a bit different to the lazy/attitude problem you just suggested.

Im not sure why you’d pick that to disagree with either? Am I to assume that you think we should’ve completely blown the wage budget and the fact we aren’t spending any more is “unambitious?”

[47er]

1 hour ago, had.e.nuff said:

I wonder how he has over 50 games under his belt in the championship and still only 19, someone must have rated him ,I would get him in the u23s and try to get his confidence back .

Oh right, so he's a quite experienced 19 year old? Not just a raw teenager?

[JBiz]

Just now, 47er said:

There is no actual evidence that he will ever "move his stock forward" just as there is any certainty that he'll be a complete flop. However the evidence seems to be in favour of the former rather than the latter wouldn't you think?

Pay £7M in the Championship for a 19 year old and TM daren't pick him! Utterly absurd.

Travis would’ve never been seen as an undroppable centre midfielder at the end of December.

5 games later people are suggesting he is undroppable.

You’ve suggested what we’ve got so far is what we will get with Ben and I can’t agree. I think he wil improve with time, patience and support.

 

[Parsonblue]

1 hour ago, Madon said:

He's playing in the Under 18's at the minute. Played vs Derby in their last game.

He's looked pretty decent at this level and would expect him to move up to the Under-23's towards the end of this season.  Difficult for the lad as he tries to adjust to a new country and learn a new language but he certainly looks a prospect.

[Parsonblue]

4 minutes ago, Biz said:

I have the same doubts but it’s not time to say “he’s garbage” or “a waste of money”. I also don’t recall PB saying he doesn’t think he will make the grade either.

I also watched the same game. You couldn’t single him out as someone not showing effort or desire from what I saw. He doesn’t look confident or exactly sure his role, but that’s a bit different to the lazy/attitude problem you just suggested.

Im not sure why you’d pick that to disagree with either? Am I to assume that you think we should’ve completely blown the wage budget and the fact we aren’t spending any more is “unambitious?”

I just think they need to stick him in the Under-23's for a bit and allow him to play, score some goals and rebuild his confidence out of the spotlight.  Sadly the price tag, which isn't the lad's fault, is probably the reason why we've been reluctant to do this.  But with Butterworth improving with every match I believe Brereton may well fall further behind in the pecking order if things don't change.  I think we all need to forget about the fee, put him in Under-23's and allow him to find some confidence and form over next few weeks.

[had.e.nuff]

17 hours ago, CP Company Lad said:

Dan James in at Leeds. £1.5m loan deal rising to around £10m if promoted. Smart bit of business. James on the left and Jack Clarke on the right gives massive options. Rip some full backs another ring piece.

Leeds fail to sign Daniel James supprised his spy network didnt see that coming

[had.e.nuff]

1 hour ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

I think we’ll be fine so long as Graham doesn’t get injured. Nuttall has looked okay of late but you wouldn’t want to be leading the line with him week in week out as the difference between him and DG quality wise is like night and day. Keep him wrapped in cotton wool please, Tony. 

The problem was who could we have got that is alot better than what we have and would have been happy sitting on the bench

[47er]

What PB has said is that he has his doubts about whether Brereton can make the grade, so you're playing semantics.

PB never deals in hyperbole and, coming from him, that's a significant statement.

However, we all want him to come good, most fear he won't.

The point is that we could have spent this money better couldn't we? We need cover for Graham NOW. 

Committed to near £7M  for a much-needed striker and we still need one!

I asked you that question directly and you avoided it as you always do.

Edited February 1, 2019 by 47er

[JBiz]

4 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

I just think they need to stick him in the Under-23's for a bit and allow him to play, score some goals and rebuild his confidence out of the spotlight.  Sadly the price tag, which isn't the lad's fault, is probably the reason why we've been reluctant to do this.  But with Butterworth improving with every match I believe Brereton may well fall further behind in the pecking order if things don't change.  I think we all need to forget about the fee, put him in Under-23's and allow him to find some confidence and form over next few weeks.

Amen to that at least. It won’t be though because it’s the perfect reason to up expectation with him.

Its even more ridiculous when people are comparing 7m signings in the late 90s and early 2000s with now. 

I think a few u23s games would do him good too - but I also think he needs to keep training and learning with the first team squad, I was against loaning him out for that reason.

 

[47er]

14 minutes ago, Biz said:

Travis would’ve never been seen as an undroppable centre midfielder at the end of December.

5 games later people are suggesting he is undroppable.

You’ve suggested what we’ve got so far is what we will get with Ben and I can’t agree. I think he wil improve with time, patience and support.

 

How can you say "he will"? You can't tell the future. Its like saying Britain will prosper after Brexit isn't it? Where's the evidence?

As for Travis I've been arguing for his regular inclusion for months! He'd have been undroppable long ago if I'd had my way!!

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

12 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

I just think they need to stick him in the Under-23's for a bit and allow him to play, score some goals and rebuild his confidence out of the spotlight.  Sadly the price tag, which isn't the lad's fault, is probably the reason why we've been reluctant to do this.  But with Butterworth improving with every match I believe Brereton may well fall further behind in the pecking order if things don't change.  I think we all need to forget about the fee, put him in Under-23's and allow him to find some confidence and form over next few weeks.

Well if Forest are prepared to " forget about the fee " I'm sure we will.

[47er]

Just now, Biz said:

 

Its even more ridiculous when people are comparing 7m signings in the late 90s and early 2000s with now. 

 

Mischieviously and deliberately quoting me out of context there Biz. There were two examples of players we paid big fees for and had high expectations of IN THE PREMIERSHIP!

I simply drew attention to the coincidence that the fees were £7M in all three cases.

We had money then, we haven't had a pot to piss in for years and £7M is STILL a lot to pay for us in the Championship right now!

[SBlue]

25 minutes ago, 47er said:

What PB has said is that he has his doubts about whether Brereton can make the grade, so you're playing semantics.

PB never deals in hyperbole and, coming from him, that's a significant statement.

However, we all want him to come good, most fear he won't.

The point is that we could have spent this money better couldn't we? We need cover for Graham NOW. 

Committed to near £7M  for a much-needed striker and we still need one!

I asked you that question directly and you avoided it as you always do.

Going into the Millwall game against some of the roughest and toughest defenders in the league without Graham, I was scared. And that is the kind of game Graham would usually excel in. As it happens one of his striking deputies had a good game and scored, whilst one of the others assisted him and is in red hot form.

I would disagree about putting BB in the U-23s. If we take the noises coming out of the club from Mowbray, Graham and Dack etc. at face value then we have a striker that everybody rates and is excelling in training but is perhaps short on a little confidence - dropping him to the development squad could absolutely destroy him. I still think he can contribute this season, and I'm sure I've read many on here say Nuttall isn't even League One level so I always take other fan's views with a pinch of salt.

To answer an earlier poster Travis is 21, and Nuttall is 22 - 2 and 3 years older than BB.

Could the mystery fee have been spent better for the short term? Probably yes. Could it have been spent worse? I think so.

I still believe that it will be seen as a shrewd move in time, and I trust the manager to develop, and importantly protect him adequately.

(I might save this post on my clipboard as it comes up every day ?)

Edited February 1, 2019 by S8 & Blue

[AAK]

8 minutes ago, 47er said:

Mischieviously and deliberately quoting me out of context there Biz. There were two examples of players we paid big fees for and had high expectations of IN THE PREMIERSHIP!

I simply drew attention to the coincidence that the fees were £7M in all three cases.

We had money then, we haven't had a pot to piss in for years and £7M is STILL a lot to pay for us in the Championship right now!

Isn't it funny how all our 'expensive flop' signings seem to be for the same figure. Brereton, Grabbi, Davies all for £7million, Andy Cole was also £7million and apart from the first 12 months was also a waste of money, although he did bag in the final.

[CP Company Lad]

1 hour ago, J*B said:

Talk to me again about this...

Why ? You will only delete it. Push the button.

[CP Company Lad]

37 minutes ago, had.e.nuff said:

Leeds fail to sign Daniel James supprised his spy network didnt see that coming

Player wanted the move. Leeds met the fee. Swansea pulled the plug with minutes to go. Poor lad must be gutted.

[Stuart]

4 hours ago, Tom Stinny said:

A lot of posters aren't worried for no reason. We've been in this position with bowyer with a better team. Then missed out and everyone was sold.

Somebody get that mic drop picture that S8 posted the other day...!

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[Dreams of 1995]

Why didn't you just get your bloke in the bushes to forge the signature? Set of absolute wrong uns.

[JBiz]

44 minutes ago, 47er said:

What PB has said is that he has his doubts about whether Brereton can make the grade, so you're playing semantics.

PB never deals in hyperbole and, coming from him, that's a significant statement.

However, we all want him to come good, most fear he won't.

The point is that we could have spent this money better couldn't we? We need cover for Graham NOW. 

Committed to near £7M  for a much-needed striker and we still need one!

I asked you that question directly and you avoided it as you always do.

 

38 minutes ago, 47er said:

How can you say "he will"? You can't tell the future. Its like saying Britain will prosper after Brexit isn't it? Where's the evidence?

As for Travis I've been arguing for his regular inclusion for months! He'd have been undroppable long ago if I'd had my way!!

 

33 minutes ago, 47er said:

Mischieviously and deliberately quoting me out of context there Biz. There were two examples of players we paid big fees for and had high expectations of IN THE PREMIERSHIP!

I simply drew attention to the coincidence that the fees were £7M in all three cases.

We had money then, we haven't had a pot to piss in for years and £7M is STILL a lot to pay for us in the Championship right now!

PB is as welcome to his opinion as you are, and in the same way I am.

Nobody has convinced me that this signing is a complete "blunder" (Mercer Jan 2019) or has ended up costing us an "obscene" (Blueboy Jan 2019) amount of money. Without going over this AGAIN in detail, I am still firmly in the camp that his wages mean more was available for the fee (Waggott September 2018), it is highly structured, appearance and performance related (many news reports since).

I actually said "I think HE WILL" which I don't think you could compare to trying to get people to vote for something that is the equivalent of trying to take an egg out of an omelette (Brexit). Whilst you talk a lot of sense about politics, the notion you saw the impact travis would've had on our midfield before his inclusion is ridiculous 47er. If you listened to Mulgrews interview on RL other day, he couldn't quite believe it either - and he has trained with him for how long? I also think its fairly ignorant to forget Travis benefitted from being used in his preferred position and given consistent starts. When has Ben had this? 

Your fear about him being a waste of money (5 months into his Rovers career, 1 league start) is related to the fee and not the player in my view. Hence Grabbi and Davies get a mention. I shudder to think what either of them would've cost now - you're talking in the top transfer fees for the Era - particularly with Davies. You know, that season (98/99) - I could only find Dwight Yorke and Jaap Stam who cost a lot more than Davies deal, yet a (future England and current Premier league) manager at that time saw fit to give Southampton that figure AND James Beattie... A fantastic example of poor business.

Comparing that to now - the expectation should decrease with what you get for the fee. Of course it was bit of a surprise for us to outlay so much on returning to the championship, but look at the cost of an average championship player these days. Quotes from Mowbray yesterday are prime examples of what is going on, however why not use the other striker we signed last summer?

Question marks against Armstrong's ("lazy little tosser" Blue Boy Oct 2018) ability to cope in the championship made him 1.5m rising to 3m - looking at him now, if he sustains his form... Would you accept 7m for him? No thanks

OH and I forgot to answer the question about needing a backup striker, I agree we need another hold up/wily style forward like Graham as he is getting on a bit. That said, I think we have shown recently we can play 442, and even if Graham is injured for a long time - we've got a mixture of Dack, Armstrong, Nuttall, and Brereton who can play up top. Obviously, none of them can do the job that Danny can do, but that is probably why it would be a very expensive signing to get someone else who can, to sit on the bench. I have no qualms with waiting till the summer to find a better fit, and I guess it comes down to trusting the managers judgement too - he hasn't got much wrong in my book.

 

Edited February 1, 2019 by Biz

[Parsonblue]

32 minutes ago, Biz said:

Amen to that at least. It won’t be though because it’s the perfect reason to up expectation with him.

Its even more ridiculous when people are comparing 7m signings in the late 90s and early 2000s with now. 

I think a few u23s games would do him good too - but I also think he needs to keep training and learning with the first team squad, I was against loaning him out for that reason.

 

Quite of few of the Under-23's are training with the first team squad everyday so that shouldn't make any difference to him on a day to day basis.  The only difference will be that he gets 90 minutes football every week.

[tomphil]

13 minutes ago, AAK said:

Isn't it funny how all our 'expensive flop' signings seem to be for the same figure. Brereton, Grabbi, Davies all for £7million, Andy Cole was also £7million and apart from the first 12 months was also a waste of money, although he did bag in the final.

It's a scary figure for Rovers for sure but I thought Cole cost 8m but anyway to say he was a waste of money is utter bollocks he was a class act throughout his time here. His legs were going a bit compared to what they were as time wore on and he began to tailor his game a little differently. By doing this he also had a big hand in helping the development of Duff and Jansen.

I'd say Souness and the signing of Yorke had more to do with Coley sulking than anything else but he was still a class act on the pitch but silly Souness let him go for nowt.

[CP Company Lad]

Just now, Dreams of 1995 said:

Why didn't you just get your bloke in the bushes to forge the signature? Set of absolute wrong uns.

Why ? He had been in Leeds all day to sign. Medical passed. Licking his lips at the thought of sipping a nice Chateux nuef du pap and ends up with Vimto. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Dirty Leeds. The Liverpool fans of the Championship.