JANUARY TRANSFER WINDOW

[Miller11]

@Biz I made no joke about gender appropriation. Not surprised you were mistaken as you seem utterly humourless. I don’t know if you do it deliberately, but you reimagine or misconstrue fundamental parts of almost every post.

I agree with you on one thing, it’s not about you being offended... it’s about your steadfast refusal to accept any perceived criticism of anything relating to Ben Brereton. 

[Stuart]

8 minutes ago, Biz said:

The problem with that scenario is loudmouths are heard, the majority are not. Not that I disagree, I am not arguing that there is a majority of people being overly critical, or vociferously vocal towards the lad.

In one sentence - you mentioned mental, racial and sexual insults, and then a "gender appropriation" joke about someone being insulted for "wrongly assuming his gender".

I personally probably wouldn't associate racism/sexism and mental health awareness with non-issues because that, coincidentally (from my point of view) is what trivialises actual problems in society - and in a football stadium!

This is about the idea I disagreed with the notion "everybody is supported at Ewood", its not about me being offended.

 

Agree - however most fans wasn't the comment.

I don't need the majority or most fans to get behind anyone, they will react positively at most games anyway. It is the minority of those singling out him for criticism. For example; His "poor" form is stretching the truth to some extent - from my point of view at least. Surely form is only something you can take from consistent appearances in a preferred position?

I know you'd give the claps and support in the ground like I do, but there are plenty who share your opinion on his ability, and thus share it with the rest of the ground..! I mean to suggest he will probably never score, 5 months and 1 league start into his career. Bit unfair really. Especially when he has had two chalked off for offside.

I think you make a good point about Nuttall's improvment though- but I don't think he has ever had stick in the ground, has he? 

Even when the ball bounces off him for 60 minutes. We both know the reason comes down to goals - always the imperial measurement of strikers. He does get some criticism on here due to his limited technical ability - but you can see that training in our system for much longer, working hard with Johnson in the u23s and being given a chance has brought his level up. Nuttall looks stronger, fitter and more switched on - does that not also bode well for giving Brereton time, isn't there a good chance he will improve in a similar way?

Have you ever considered that signing Ben has actually helped that process for Nuttall too? Competition for places in the 18 is as good as its been since pre-venkys in my opinion, something you cannot seem to give Mowbray any credit for. 

You are criticising him for dropping his own signing and using Nuttall (also someone he signed, albeit with DJ's input) instead - we both know you'd be criticising Mowbray if he'd loaned out Nuttall and stuck with Ben. I have never understood this priority to find criticism.

The main issue I have with the Brereton signing is the price tag. We didn’t need to spend so much money to light a fire under Nuttall. He just needed managing properly. As soon as Samuel was fit last time he was dropped. That’s what put him back. If anything we have too much competition for places in certain areas and not enough in others. (GK and CB bring the main ones).

But regardless, £7m in this division should have brought goals - even starting as sub (although for £7m I’d have wanted a first team starter) - but he’s not looking like getting chances. Nuttall has had to take his chances from the bench. Brereton just doesn’t look like getting into a position to get a goal, and looks to be getting further away from a first team start than closer.

Badly recruited, badly used, badly managed.

The only sound bites now are that he’ll be a good ‘un in the future. By next January we could well be offloading him on a loan-to-buy after “a disastrous spell at Ewood Park”. Something needs to change and quickly. Some games in the U23s is vital. If the rumour that Waggott has vetoed the manager doing so is true then the club really isn’t helping him - or itself.

[Stuart]

2 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Every player, especially a struggling player will get some verbals from a few folk in the crowd.

Always have, always will. Even future  title winner Jason ‘Handbag’ Wilcox used to get a load of it from the Riverside in his younger days.

From the vast majority of the ground, BB has been given time and support - much more than Kevin Davies did, for example.

It’s a good point about Wilcox.

Today’s cosseted footballers have never had it so good.

[CP Company Lad]

13 hours ago, perthblue02 said:

 

Dissing Vimto? invented by a Blackburn chap. Sacrilege on a Rovers forum, burn him

 

 

Didn't know that mate. Big fan of vimto as it goes. Only cordial I drink. 

I was over this way last night at a 50th at Lostock Hall Con Club. Good time catching up with family and friends. Stopped in Bamber Bridge. Sausage barm at my aunties now heading back over to the light side. All good.

[JBiz]

7 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

@Biz I made no joke about gender appropriation. Not surprised you were mistaken as you seem utterly humourless. I don’t know if you do it deliberately, but you reimagine or misconstrue fundamental parts of almost every post.

I agree with you on one thing, it’s not about you being offended... it’s about your steadfast refusal to accept any perceived criticism of anything relating to Ben Brereton. 

What have I re-imagined about this? ; "You are claiming that is was so vile and abusive you can’t repeat it... give us a clue... was it racist? Regarding his sexuality? Around any physical or mental condition? Maybe they incorrectly assumed his gender and verbally attacked him for it? Don’t tell me the pitchfork wielding, card carrying Klan member sat behind you attacked him for his religious or political views?!?!"

Firstly you assumed I couldn't type it because I was offended, when its simply a word in the swear filter.

Secondly this sarcastic and (also what id describe as humourless) reply belittles real issues with racism et al. Bringing the modern Americanism "you assumed my gender" into some poorly worded retort including over the top references to other actual serious issues is what I am talking about.

Lack of sense, intelligence, maturity - and by the looks of the last sentence - lack of any argument.

7 minutes ago, Stuart said:

The main issue I have with the Brereton signing is the price tag. We didn’t need to spend so much money to light a fire under Nuttall. He just needed managing properly. As soon as Samuel was fit last time he was dropped. That’s what put him back. If anything we have too much competition for places in certain areas and not enough in others. (GK and CB bring the main ones).

But regardless, £7m in this division should have brought goals - even starting as sub (although for £7m I’d have wanted a first team starter) - but he’s not looking like getting chances. Nuttall has had to take his chances from the bench. Brereton just doesn’t look like getting into a position to get a goal, and looks to be getting further away from a first team start than closer.

Badly recruited, badly used, badly managed.

The only sound bites now are that he’ll be a good ‘un in the future. By next January we could well be offloading him on a loan-to-buy after “a disastrous spell at Ewood Park”. Something needs to change and quickly. Some games in the U23s is vital. If the rumour that Waggott has vetoed the manager doing so is true then the club really isn’t helping him - or itself.

Price tag exactly. Its the perfect excuse to stick the boot in. As many have pointed out to you, but you and others continue ignore, 7m on Ben is completely different to signing someone for a big fee and big wages. You'd discount the words of the director who actually organised the deal to continue the argument that this deal has compromised the team - you preferred to assume his wage was directly related to the cost of the transfer fee if I recall correctly.

I also don't buy that what we see is what we will get. His age is continuously discounted for his price. If you expect a mature, well rounded goal scorer on a nominal wage at 19, even for 7m - you're stuck in 1999.

From my perspective - how anyone could judge our recruitment of him by this point is ridiculous. Thats not defending his limited impact so far as Major Miller suggests - its a point of view that wont change by rumours about Waggott vetoing his inclusion in the u23s... How quaint that we get back to rumours to support your perceived annoyance at decision making!

 

 

 

 

 

[Ewood Ace]

2 hours ago, Biz said:

However, if you can't hear the overall noise whenever he makes a mistake, loose pass, loses possession - id suggest getting some hearing aids - and if you think all 19 year old lads have thick skin for that - you'd be wrong.

There are audible groans from fans at every game around the world when one of their players gives the ball away, it's a natural reaction. . Are you really suggesting that Rovers fans don't groan if say Dack or Mulgrew miss place a pace or when Raya miscues as kick? You go to the Nou Camp and if Messi give the ball away there is a collective groan around the stadium or even going back to when they had Xavi and Iniesta if they played a very rare loose pass. 

Edited February 2, 2019 by Ewood Ace

[Stuart]

Just now, Biz said:

What have I re-imagined about this? ; "You are claiming that is was so vile and abusive you can’t repeat it... give us a clue... was it racist? Regarding his sexuality? Around any physical or mental condition? Maybe they incorrectly assumed his gender and verbally attacked him for it? Don’t tell me the pitchfork wielding, card carrying Klan member sat behind you attacked him for his religious or political views?!?!"

Firstly you assumed I couldn't type it because I was offended, when its simply a word in the swear filter.

Secondly this sarcastic and (also what id describe as humourless) reply belittles real issues with racism et al. Bringing the modern Americanism "you assumed my gender" into some poorly worded retort including over the top references to other actual serious issues is what I am talking about.

Lack of sense, intelligence, maturity - and by the looks of the last sentence - lack of any argument.

Price tag exactly. Its the perfect excuse to stick the boot in. As many have pointed out to you, but you and others continue ignore, 7m on Ben is completely different to signing someone for a big fee and big wages. You'd discount the words of the director who actually organised the deal to continue the argument that this deal has compromised the team - you preferred to assume his wage was directly related to the cost of the transfer fee if I recall correctly.

I also don't buy that what we see is what we will get. His age is continuously discounted for his price. If you expect a mature, well rounded goal scorer on a nominal wage at 19, even for 7m - you're stuck in 1999.

From my perspective - how anyone could judge our recruitment of him by this point is ridiculous. Thats not defending his limited impact so far as Major Miller suggests - its a point of view that wont change by rumours about Waggott vetoing his inclusion in the u23s... How quaint that we get back to rumours to support your perceived annoyance at decision making!

You cannot ignore the price tag. It’s not an excuse!

You have invented this idea of “flex” presumably because of the Bosman wage effect.

This is the Championship not the PL, we aren’t buying a PL striker for £7m we are being a second tier one. Almost none of them cost that much!

[JBiz]

Just now, Stuart said:

You cannot ignore the price tag. It’s not an excuse!

You have invented this idea of “flex” presumably because of the Bosman wage effect.

This is the Championship not the PL, we aren’t buying a PL striker for £7m we are being a second tier one. Almost none of them cost that much!

I didn't invent it and it has nothing to do with Bosman. I read what the chairman said about the deal. The price tag is used to put the boot in unfairly. Its compared to deals in 1999 ffs, how is that even relevant?

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/16984616.rovers-have-big-belief-in-brereton-says-ceo-waggott/

 

"here was a set amount of funding that the owners agreed on which was a very good gesture.

“I just asked whether we could flex it between transfer money and wages accordingly, but not breach it.

“If someone came along that meant we had to diminish wages to get that player, or vice versa, could we flex it and they said yes.”

[tomphil]

So it could possibly be a 7 million pound deal over 4 years including wages ?

Might sound a bit more realistic if that was the case.

[blueboy3333]

6 minutes ago, Biz said:

I didn't invent it and it has nothing to do with Bosman. I read what the chairman said about the deal. The price tag is used to put the boot in unfairly. Its compared to deals in 1999 ffs, how is that even relevant?

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/16984616.rovers-have-big-belief-in-brereton-says-ceo-waggott/

 

"here was a set amount of funding that the owners agreed on which was a very good gesture.

“I just asked whether we could flex it between transfer money and wages accordingly, but not breach it.

“If someone came along that meant we had to diminish wages to get that player, or vice versa, could we flex it and they said yes.”

Hes just saying he had a budget. Like every other CEO. 

[Miller11]

@Biz It was Directed at Chaddy too, who claimed the vile abuse was something he couldn’t bring himself to/wasn’t allowed to post on a message board...

I listed a load of protected characteristics which it is illegal to discriminate against someone for, you know, things that might actually constitute vile abuse. Calling someone a dick or a shit footballer doesn’t.

[47er]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

 

Have you ever considered that signing Ben has actually helped that process for Nuttall too? Competition for places in the 18 is as good as its been since pre-venkys in my opinion, something you cannot seem to give Mowbray any credit for. 

 

 

Brereton is competition?!!!

[blueboy3333]

2 minutes ago, tomphil said:

So it could possibly be a 7 million pound deal over 4 years including wages ?

Might sound a bit more realistic if that was the case.

No. It's a £7m transfer deal. The 'flex' just means he had less money to spend elsewhere. Waggott had a pot of money like everyone else and decided to try and make that sound interesting. 

[K-Hod]

Joe (Biz) stop moving the goalposts!

Let’s simplify this matter before you inevitably over complicate things again.

Brereton cost £7 Million and for that amount of money, ideally, he needed to be able to fit straight into the team and make a difference. There are obviously loads of reasons he hasn’t and whether he does eventually come good or doesn’t, but it’s got to be a concern that we are spending almost our record transfer free (eventually) on a guy that hasn’t made that much different yet.

Because he’s only 19, I’m prepared to give him much more time, but I can understand completely why other supporters are concerned about his lack of impact SO FAR! 

(This post will probably really wind you up, so I’m bringing you some tobacco back from holiday to offset your annoyance! ?).

Edited February 2, 2019 by K-Hod

[47er]

6 minutes ago, tomphil said:

So it could possibly be a 7 million pound deal over 4 years including wages ?

Might sound a bit more realistic if that was the case.

Doesn't matter how its structured, its still £7M we could have spent on someone else.

[Stuart]

6 minutes ago, tomphil said:

So it could possibly be a 7 million pound deal over 4 years including wages ?

Might sound a bit more realistic if that was the case.

Realistic? £3m for Brereton and would immediately be less than half the problem and half the pressure! He could even go into the U23s without it being an issue.

The idea of a transfer fee being talked about but secretly including the wages for the length of his contract is unheard of.

There really is a simple answer to this one. The club just need to confirm that the fee was nowhere near the reported £7m mark.

Given everything that has happened (and not happened) since Brezza signed, it doesn’t seem at all likely though.

[JacknOry]

Unfortunately the price tag does matter, let's face it, if he didnt cost 7 mil (or whatever it is) he would be in the reserves now. That fee is stopping him from going there because of how it would look when he really should be getting game time there. If it were an academy prospect that came into the first team picture that had not looked up to it and fallen further below in the pecking order, you can be sure he would be sent to work with the reserves. 

[tomphil]

Just now, 47er said:

Doesn't matter how its structured, its still £7M we could have spent on someone else.

True but i'm still finding it difficult to believe they'd commit to a 7 million guaranteed fee plus possible add ons for a kid like this despite todays silly market price wise compared to the past.  Tends to go against everything Mowbray's trying to preach.

[47er]

Does TM read this forum?!!

LT quoting TM saying we'll have to 'delve' into the "foreign market' this summer because the British market is too dear!

[JacknOry]

Just now, tomphil said:

True but i'm still finding it difficult to believe they'd commit to a 7 million guaranteed fee plus possible add ons for a kid like this despite todays silly market price wise compared to the past.  Tends to go against everything Mowbray's trying to preach.

Madon said it was 6 million + up to a million in add-ons, 2 million a year for 3 years.

[tomphil]

Just now, Stuart said:

Realistic? £3m for Brereton and would immediately be less than half the problem and half the pressure! He could even go into the U23s without it being an issue.

The idea of a transfer fee being talked about but secretly including the wages for the length of his contract is unheard of.

There really is a simple answer to this one. The club just need to confirm that the fee was nowhere near the reported £7m mark.

Given everything that has happened (and not happened) since Brezza signed, it doesn’t seem at all likely though.

It would take a weight off his shoulders if they did that maybe although on the other point the overall value of a deal including wages isn't unheard of but yet again it's the reporting of it.  Dress it up that way so it sounds like a glittery signing and statement to the buying side and pacifies the selling clubs fans a bit, I believe it was similar with Scott Dann coming here.

[Stuart]

4 minutes ago, tomphil said:

It would take a weight off his shoulders if they did that maybe although on the other point the overall value of a deal including wages isn't unheard of but yet again it's the reporting of it.  Dress it up that way so it sounds like a glittery signing and statement to the buying side and pacifies the selling clubs fans a bit, I believe it was similar with Scott Dann coming here.

Name me another Rovers signing with a transfer fee reported that included wages.

[Hasta]

46 minutes ago, Biz said:

I didn't invent it and it has nothing to do with Bosman. I read what the chairman said about the deal. The price tag is used to put the boot in unfairly. Its compared to deals in 1999 ffs, how is that even relevant?

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/16984616.rovers-have-big-belief-in-brereton-says-ceo-waggott/

 

"here was a set amount of funding that the owners agreed on which was a very good gesture.

“I just asked whether we could flex it between transfer money and wages accordingly, but not breach it.

“If someone came along that meant we had to diminish wages to get that player, or vice versa, could we flex it and they said yes.”

That doesn't mean he's on peanuts.  Its basically saying we had a pot of money and can divide I think up how we see fit.  Even if he's only on, say, four grand a week, that's four grand a week extra we could have added to the wage bill to bring someone like Austin in on loan.  Whatever budget we had, a large portion of it has  now gone on Brereton. There's no getting away from it.

As for him not getting supported at Ewood, yes there are lots of individuals who say he's crap and a waste of money. Such is football. However he can't hear this and he's never received noticeable dissent or abuse from the Ewood crowd. You are coming across like we should be singing his name and in raptures every time he's on the pitch otherwise it's unfair on him and he'll never make it as a footballer.

 

Edited February 2, 2019 by Hasta

[RV Blue]

35 minutes ago, 47er said:

Does TM read this forum?!!

LT quoting TM saying we'll have to 'delve' into the "foreign market' this summer because the British market is too dear!

Why’s it taken him 2 years to realise that?

[SBlue]

26 minutes ago, 47er said:

Does TM read this forum?!!

LT quoting TM saying we'll have to 'delve' into the "foreign market' this summer because the British market is too dear!

Haha the full video interview came out a couple of days ago and in it he spends about 5 minutes thoroughly outlining and bemoaning the rebuilding of the scouting structure he came into, and a good few minutes on how important it will be for us getting it right abroad. Talks a lot of sense.

It isn’t just platitudes, although that would be a good conspiracy theory for some if they find themselves agreeing with TM! ?

Had to smirk on here with the “Tony only likes signing players he can get within his bus pass, the idiot” sentiments being thrown around.

I’d highly recommend the cheap iFollow subscription, the long form video interviews are fantastic.